As a new player to the format, is there any like team style that would be better for someone learning the format? Used to play competitively awhile ago during Gen 7 and that OU and Ubers. Big reason I wanted to try out the format was cause of some of those older Ubers being viable lol.
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Metagame SV Ubers UU Metagame Discussion (Spectrier Ban @ Post 702)
- Thread starter KineSquared
- Start date
While there is no immediate consensus to which team style is best due to how big of a change losing Giratina is, predictions from the most knowledgeable members of our tier suggest that Hyper Offense will be very good, while Stall and Balance are not good. Jury is still out on weather, but its thought that rain may have a chance to be good again, while the other weathers are still not good.
Makes sense, I figured weather wouldn’t be great cause all the weather setters usually associated with ubers aren’t in Ubers UU. Hyper offense sounds fun to me though, I think in gen 7 I used mega diancie rocks HO lol.
Seasonal Stats! Apologies for the wait, obviously this is out of date but want it out here regardless.
Partners and Moves | Combos | Leads
USAGE
Even if its outdated, a snapshot of the meta leading up to this UMPL and UMFL is always nice to look back on. Heres to the tier with Giratina, and praying we get it back again soon!
PLEASE NOTE THAT SINCE THESE STATS BEGAN BEING TRACKED:
Giratina, Regieleki, Grimmsnarl, Terapagos, Ditto, and Spectrier are NO LONGER in the tier.
Partners and Moves | Combos | Leads
USAGE
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Mewtwo | 242 | 43.21% | 50.41% |
| 2 | Giratina | 218 | 38.93% | 51.83% |
| 3 | Roaring Moon | 195 | 34.82% | 50.77% |
| 4 | Magearna | 193 | 34.46% | 52.33% |
| 5 | Arceus-Poison | 184 | 32.86% | 48.91% |
| 6 | Landorus | 159 | 28.39% | 50.94% |
| 7 | Samurott-Hisui | 155 | 27.68% | 51.61% |
| 8 | Dragonite | 122 | 21.79% | 54.92% |
| 9 | Arceus-Electric | 115 | 20.54% | 53.04% |
| 10 | Arceus-Ice | 111 | 19.82% | 51.35% |
| 11 | Deoxys | 87 | 15.54% | 48.28% |
| 12 | Spectrier | 85 | 15.18% | 47.06% |
| 13 | Urshifu | 74 | 13.21% | 41.89% |
| 14 | Gholdengo | 71 | 12.68% | 60.56% |
| 14 | Gouging Fire | 71 | 12.68% | 50.70% |
| 16 | Araquanid | 70 | 12.50% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Palafin | 67 | 11.96% | 58.21% |
| 18 | Terapagos | 61 | 10.89% | 52.46% |
| 19 | Arceus-Dark | 60 | 10.71% | 50.00% |
| 20 | Kyurem-White | 53 | 9.46% | 45.28% |
| 21 | Cyclizar | 51 | 9.11% | 45.10% |
| 22 | Mimikyu | 49 | 8.75% | 44.90% |
| 23 | Chi-Yu | 44 | 7.86% | 52.27% |
| 24 | Garganacl | 42 | 7.50% | 54.76% |
| 25 | Great Tusk | 30 | 5.36% | 50.00% |
| 26 | Smeargle | 29 | 5.18% | 55.17% |
| 26 | Arceus-Rock | 29 | 5.18% | 48.28% |
| 28 | Scizor | 27 | 4.82% | 55.56% |
| 29 | Palkia-Origin | 26 | 4.64% | 57.69% |
| 30 | Mandibuzz | 25 | 4.46% | 44.00% |
| 31 | Annihilape | 24 | 4.29% | 29.17% |
| 32 | Sneasler | 23 | 4.11% | 47.83% |
| 33 | Toxapex | 21 | 3.75% | 52.38% |
| 33 | Grimmsnarl | 21 | 3.75% | 42.86% |
| 33 | Latios | 21 | 3.75% | 33.33% |
| 36 | Ursaluna-Bloodmoon | 20 | 3.57% | 60.00% |
| 36 | Zamazenta-* | 20 | 3.57% | 55.00% |
| 36 | Blissey | 20 | 3.57% | 50.00% |
| 39 | Iron Treads | 19 | 3.39% | 63.16% |
| 39 | Okidogi | 19 | 3.39% | 47.37% |
| 39 | Ursaluna | 19 | 3.39% | 42.11% |
| 39 | Lugia | 19 | 3.39% | 36.84% |
| 39 | Ogerpon-Hearthflame | 19 | 3.39% | 31.58% |
| 44 | Iron Bundle | 18 | 3.21% | 38.89% |
| 44 | Dragapult | 18 | 3.21% | 33.33% |
| 46 | Volcarona | 16 | 2.86% | 43.75% |
| 47 | Solgaleo | 14 | 2.50% | 42.86% |
| 48 | Alomomola | 13 | 2.32% | 38.46% |
| 48 | Baxcalibur | 13 | 2.32% | 38.46% |
| 50 | Corviknight | 12 | 2.14% | 33.33% |
| 51 | Quagsire | 11 | 1.96% | 63.64% |
| 51 | Clodsire | 11 | 1.96% | 36.36% |
| 51 | Palkia | 11 | 1.96% | 36.36% |
| 51 | Walking Wake | 11 | 1.96% | 27.27% |
| 55 | Dialga-Origin | 10 | 1.79% | 70.00% |
| 55 | Ceruledge | 10 | 1.79% | 60.00% |
| 55 | Torkoal | 10 | 1.79% | 50.00% |
| 55 | Archaludon | 10 | 1.79% | 30.00% |
| 59 | Arceus-Bug | 9 | 1.61% | 55.56% |
| 59 | Arceus-Fighting | 9 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 61 | Regieleki | 8 | 1.43% | 50.00% |
| 61 | Cloyster | 8 | 1.43% | 37.50% |
| 63 | Raging Bolt | 7 | 1.25% | 57.14% |
| 63 | Dialga | 7 | 1.25% | 57.14% |
| 65 | Gothitelle | 6 | 1.07% | 66.67% |
| 65 | Espathra | 6 | 1.07% | 33.33% |
| 65 | Tornadus-Therian | 6 | 1.07% | 33.33% |
| 68 | Muk-Alola | 5 | 0.89% | 60.00% |
| 68 | Skarmory | 5 | 0.89% | 40.00% |
| 70 | Excadrill | 4 | 0.71% | 75.00% |
| 70 | Tyranitar | 4 | 0.71% | 75.00% |
| 70 | Rillaboom | 4 | 0.71% | 50.00% |
| 70 | Enamorus | 4 | 0.71% | 50.00% |
| 70 | Ninetales | 4 | 0.71% | 0.00% |
| 75 | Kommo-o | 3 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 75 | Kleavor | 3 | 0.54% | 66.67% |
| 75 | Iron Valiant | 3 | 0.54% | 66.67% |
| 75 | Orthworm | 3 | 0.54% | 66.67% |
| 75 | Pecharunt | 3 | 0.54% | 66.67% |
| 75 | Ogerpon-Cornerstone | 3 | 0.54% | 33.33% |
| 75 | Scream Tail | 3 | 0.54% | 33.33% |
| 75 | Ditto | 3 | 0.54% | 33.33% |
| 83 | Clefable | 2 | 0.36% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Reshiram | 2 | 0.36% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Arcanine-Hisui | 2 | 0.36% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Primarina | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Moltres | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Mamoswine | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Garchomp | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Arceus-Grass | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Hattrem | 2 | 0.36% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Ninetales-Alola | 2 | 0.36% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Pelipper | 2 | 0.36% | 0.00% |
| 83 | Hoopa-Unbound | 2 | 0.36% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Iron Boulder | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Deoxys-Defense | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Slowking-Galar | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Blaziken | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Weezing-Galar | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Galvantula | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Cinderace | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Cinccino | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Terrakion | 1 | 0.18% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Swampert | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Leavanny | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Barraskewda | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Whimsicott | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Iron Hands | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Jirachi | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Gengar | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Lokix | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Masquerain | 1 | 0.18% | 0.00% |Even if its outdated, a snapshot of the meta leading up to this UMPL and UMFL is always nice to look back on. Heres to the tier with Giratina, and praying we get it back again soon!
PLEASE NOTE THAT SINCE THESE STATS BEGAN BEING TRACKED:
Giratina, Regieleki, Grimmsnarl, Terapagos, Ditto, and Spectrier are NO LONGER in the tier.
The Ubers UU Council is Looking for YOUR Opinion on
ARCEUS-ELECTRIC
Ever since the departure of Giratina shocked the community, we've found that much of the playerbase has been struck by the bolt of lightning known as Arceus-Electric. While it's absolutely been a point of discussion in the past (receiving a 3.7 on the last Giratina-Era survey we put out) it has never been strong enough to justify any action, especially given that it struggled into the ever-present Giratina. Giratina (until its rise mid UMPL) was often able to act as a consistent stop-gap to Arceus-Electric, ensuring that one would have ample time to chip it down and stop Arceus from setting up. With that hurdle eliminated, Arceus-Electric has been given newfound life predominantly through its CM sets. The sheer variety of tera types and the ability to tweak its spreads to allow it to manage offensive threats has turned it into one of the most terrifiying mons to see in preview, knowing that in some cases getting the tera type wrong or simply allowing it to get those crucial setup turns can be game-ending. This doesn't even begin to cover the physical sets (made possible due to the power of Supercell Slam), which are certainly less common but are worthy of being addressed since it adds to the difficulty in managing it correctly both in game and in the builder.
That being said, new checks have started to pop up. The rise in Great Tusk, continued success of Iron Treads, and experimentations into more hazard stack and priority spam has allowed to the UMPL playerbase to somewhat adjust to Arceus's power, with it ultimately having a clean 50% winrate in the whole tournament. Mewtwo is and will continue to be a tool to out-offense the CM sets, and it can be prone to being physically overwhelmed with setup sweepers like the ever-present DD Dragons and Arceus forms, especially when their own tera is able to be thrown into the mix.
The reason we are approaching this as a call for discussion as opposed to a survey is so that we can focus specifically on Arceus Electric, as it was the most unanimously agreed upon factor in the council. This was also something that seemed to be Public Enemy #1 from many UMPL players we have discussed with. While there are other options that could be looked at right now (namely Roaring Moon and Arceus-Ice), it makes more sense to tackle the biggest point of discussion before moving on to the lesser threats, rather then attempting to handle all of them at once. We will likely be posting a survey after UUBPL to get a more in depth community opinion on the state of the meta.
If any action ends up being deemed necessary, rest assured it will happen before UUBPL! We are looking forwards to hearing everyone's thoughts, and congrats again to the Manes on their win!
I'll try and write a longer more in depth post later, but right now it's past 1 am and I have a quiz tomorrow.
Arc Electric is absolutely my biggest road block in the builder, and most of the time I feel like the best way to beat it is with my own arc electric (Im specifically talking about the Calm Mind set, which i think is the stronger one). Even mons like Iron Treads end up becoming Calm Mind fodder after Tera. The secondary issue for me personally is that it's SD and DD sets are perfectly viable. This makes it even harder to consistently beat it since going into the wrong check can lead to you giving your opponent a free turn. Most recently, Taka used a TbFlying Arce to 6-0 Frito in Finals of UMPL, now while that is a specific Tera reliant set, it does showcase the issue I have with Arce. This is worse than something like Rmoon, which gets most of it's variety though Tera, while it's still difficult to deal with, it feels less impossible. Arc Ice is just lower on the chopping block for me personally.
Anyways, this all subject to change. I'm hoping to come back to this at some point with new thoughts and maybe some replays, but for an initial post I think this is fine. Anyways, meta is better with Tina gone and I would be happy to see it stay that way :D
Arc Electric is absolutely my biggest road block in the builder, and most of the time I feel like the best way to beat it is with my own arc electric (Im specifically talking about the Calm Mind set, which i think is the stronger one). Even mons like Iron Treads end up becoming Calm Mind fodder after Tera. The secondary issue for me personally is that it's SD and DD sets are perfectly viable. This makes it even harder to consistently beat it since going into the wrong check can lead to you giving your opponent a free turn. Most recently, Taka used a TbFlying Arce to 6-0 Frito in Finals of UMPL, now while that is a specific Tera reliant set, it does showcase the issue I have with Arce. This is worse than something like Rmoon, which gets most of it's variety though Tera, while it's still difficult to deal with, it feels less impossible. Arc Ice is just lower on the chopping block for me personally.
Anyways, this all subject to change. I'm hoping to come back to this at some point with new thoughts and maybe some replays, but for an initial post I think this is fine. Anyways, meta is better with Tina gone and I would be happy to see it stay that way :D
In my opinion Arc Elec is one of those mons who has multiple sets and are all good. It can be a guessing game on whenever it's physical or special. It can be sd extrem killer, dd, cm sweeper which is a lot of sets to account for espacially since cm and physical sets have vastly different checks. All these sets can end game very quickly are makes Arceus elec one of the most feared sweepers for a reson.
With that being said I don't support tiering action on it yet. I think even tho there is a guessing game on the physical or special set you can most of the time guess by the look of their team. You cab be wrong ofc but I see it a bit like the zard x vs y debate. To add to it I think that there are some good checks to it. For sd and dd sets a good dragon type with some bulk can beat it. I can think of stuff like Gouging Fire, Dialga forms. Ground types have resurged in popularity despite no Lando-T and Gliscor with scarf Great Tusk which is a great rk, threads which can help pivot around it, Lando-I who can force a tera on physical sets. The extrem killer arceus is one of the many this tier had and I don't think is broken at all. The dd set can be good and we saw the tera blast flying set to snipe tusk but I personally need to see more. The cm set is more tricky but I think stuff like phazing with hazards espacially hazard stack which is really good makes it punishing. We can also add that this set needs to be scared of going for the cm war against opposing Arceus. It will also struggle into stuff like stall with Clod. Mewtwo, a top 2 mon in the meta in my opinion can out offense it hard and runs boots most of the time so it isn't scared about Arceus Elec on webs.
If it was this and Arceus brought nothing defensivly I wouldn't mind it going. However I did find it usefull defensivly with it being able to sponge twaves notably from magerna. It's also a check to Lugia who I think would become even better with it left.
I'm open to hear more about it from fellow players as my opinion can of course change with some good arguments
With that being said I don't support tiering action on it yet. I think even tho there is a guessing game on the physical or special set you can most of the time guess by the look of their team. You cab be wrong ofc but I see it a bit like the zard x vs y debate. To add to it I think that there are some good checks to it. For sd and dd sets a good dragon type with some bulk can beat it. I can think of stuff like Gouging Fire, Dialga forms. Ground types have resurged in popularity despite no Lando-T and Gliscor with scarf Great Tusk which is a great rk, threads which can help pivot around it, Lando-I who can force a tera on physical sets. The extrem killer arceus is one of the many this tier had and I don't think is broken at all. The dd set can be good and we saw the tera blast flying set to snipe tusk but I personally need to see more. The cm set is more tricky but I think stuff like phazing with hazards espacially hazard stack which is really good makes it punishing. We can also add that this set needs to be scared of going for the cm war against opposing Arceus. It will also struggle into stuff like stall with Clod. Mewtwo, a top 2 mon in the meta in my opinion can out offense it hard and runs boots most of the time so it isn't scared about Arceus Elec on webs.
If it was this and Arceus brought nothing defensivly I wouldn't mind it going. However I did find it usefull defensivly with it being able to sponge twaves notably from magerna. It's also a check to Lugia who I think would become even better with it left.
I'm open to hear more about it from fellow players as my opinion can of course change with some good arguments
I think Arceus-Electric's set variety is too much for the tier. Just at a base level, I think this pokemon's Calm Mind is pretty unbearable for this tier. Calm Mind's counterplay generally boils down to other Arceus formes (with Tera Ground or phazing) setting up first, Iron Treads, Clodsire, Mewtwo, and revenge killers. Its standard Tera types in Water or Flying are already incredibly synergistic due to how the only counterplay post Tera is often opposing Arceus-Electric itself. Mewtwo can win if bulky Calm Mind, but generally does end up losing since it cannot pivot in.
Generally, with the offensive tools we have in this tier, I think you can check a lot of pokemon off of keeping momentum and not giving mons free setup turns. A lot of the other offensive tools are frail and can be forced out by speed control or priority. Arceus' natural bulk makes it difficult to end up. A lot of super effective hits bounce off, and even the few revenge killers that actually threaten it out like Great Tusk or Scarf Lando are fodder to common Tera types. Mewtwo is strong but to immediately threaten Arceus out, you need quite a bit of invest and even LO against HP-invested Arceus formes. This isn't even to speak of SpAtk invested Arceus formes that can bruteforce through Mewtwo and Iron Treads, along with coverage that people have not experimented with heavily like Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Agility.
For an example, I'll use two games I played this UMPL where CM Arceus-Electric won despite relatively strong counterplay on paper, while still pivoting around other Pokemon and using its defensive profile.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-878335 - this game was me vs Lana, pretty normal structure with speed control in Deoxys / Urshifu-R, a Dragon in Kyurem, DD Arceus-Poison. Yes, Arceus-Poison does go down early which was a misplay on her end. but there are not many Pokemon that can handle Arceus-Electric in general in this tier. If Urshifu were non Scarf and Tusk were Scarfed, Arceus would likely still be able to bruteforce through with Tera. Arceus essentially plays 1v5 with a standard set, forcing opposing Tera (and getting confused -> taking a super effective Earthquake and living only to continue setting up and progressing).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-880119 - on paper Arceus-Electric has sufficient counterplay. it could be whatever Ape set, but double Ground + Palk-O + Iceceus should be enough. It ends up being double ground + scarf ape with encore. I think some play could've caught me off guard here with Encoring on recover turns more aggressively, but Arceus-Electric doesn't just setup to win this game. I use it to check Palkia-O and Magearna long term, it kills an Arceus-Ice through speed tie war (though misplay from his end regardless to run that line), forces Lando to tera, and doesn't end up dead after checking all 6 mons all game while making a lot of progress.
Yes, Arceus-Electric contributes a lot defensively to the tier by checking everything. But that defensive capability is so good that it easily gets opportunities to recover momentum on nearly every defensive Pokemon on the tier off of base typing. The only cores that consistently force it out are Iron Treads / Scarf Tusk + Dialga / Arceus-Electric, and these cores are very suspectible to other common breakers such as Mewtwo / Deoxys (who I believe both contribute more defensively to this tier than Arc-Elec) and can be difficult to play around.
I think for a tier of Ubers UU power level, that Pokemon is still somewhat reasonable to check due to how strong opposing Arceus formes, Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Dialga are. But unlike the other Arceus formes, Arceus-Electric not only has a meta defining special set but a reasonably difficult to deal with physical one. A lot of the common physical setup mons / breakers are suspectible to priority or just lose to common defensive tools in this tier like Great Tusk / Mandibuzz / Choice Scarfer / Deoxys / Palafin / phazing Arceus formes / Gouging Fire.
I will be using my finals game for this one but I was using a weird DD Arceus-Electric set that beats the aforementioned list of counterplay almost perfectly (albeit some Tera mons can get annoying like Mandi): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-889254
Arceus-Electric @ Zap Plate
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Supercell Slam
- Tera Blast
I'd say Frito's team was quite good and had adequate counterplay to Arceus-Electric sets. I wasn't going crazy with this set imo, Arceus-Electric just naturally loves Tera Flying and Tera Fly Blast covers all the grounds / grasses that typically check it.
The Scarfers that revenge CM Arc-Elec like Tusk / speed booster Treads / Urshifu / Roaring Moon can pretty much not do enough damage to take out Arceus due to the raw bulk and Tera Fly. Earthquake slams Treads, Gouging Fire, and opposing Arceus-Electric. Since Frito's Arceus took very minimal chip on lead, it was pretty reasonable that Arceus could just win from this point. Arceus in general has a lot more flexibility due to its stats to do whatever it wants.
Generally, other Arceus formes have some great drawback in that Bug is shit, Dark has to get past Scarf Tusk + Magearna alongside not having a strong STAB move for physical sets, Fighting is mid in the double broken psychic tier, Grass is not a particularly good defensive typing into the other arceus formes like ice, poison, and even to an extent vs elec itself, Ice has a glaring rocks weakness in a tier with bad removal alongside no STAB for a physical set, Poison has to contend with the psychics and large number of grounds while its Calm Mind is significantly worse than other arceus formes due to the natural typing and reliance on coverage, Psychic can face competition from the other psychic types and is still onenote special attacking or cpbp, and Rock has some flexibility but ultimately struggles due to its natural typing even if the offensive coverage is excellent and can be either physical or special (rock is a little broken tho lowkey.).
Arceus-Electric has none of these drawbacks, can be physical or special, can fit whatever coverage or tera it wants, doesn't have many Grounds or Pokemon that can truly force it out, and also has an incredibly TWave immunity giving it many more setup opportunities against tier staples. I personally don't agree with Slikkles claims that you can tell on preview. I wouldn't be able to tell on preview on some of my teams if it was SD or DD or CM or support. I don't think most Dragons can take it on in this tier, and I have had Arceus-Electric bruteforce through all of them in various games.
I don't see other Arc formes to be as bad or centralizing. I had extra Tera Grounds / Grasses / Electrics on a lot of my mons in order to not lose to this mon, and I don't think its really feasible to cover this in builder. And like on top of this, this mon is fantastic in Ubers itself... like let bro go
I heavily support tiering action on Arceus-Electric.
Generally, with the offensive tools we have in this tier, I think you can check a lot of pokemon off of keeping momentum and not giving mons free setup turns. A lot of the other offensive tools are frail and can be forced out by speed control or priority. Arceus' natural bulk makes it difficult to end up. A lot of super effective hits bounce off, and even the few revenge killers that actually threaten it out like Great Tusk or Scarf Lando are fodder to common Tera types. Mewtwo is strong but to immediately threaten Arceus out, you need quite a bit of invest and even LO against HP-invested Arceus formes. This isn't even to speak of SpAtk invested Arceus formes that can bruteforce through Mewtwo and Iron Treads, along with coverage that people have not experimented with heavily like Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Agility.
For an example, I'll use two games I played this UMPL where CM Arceus-Electric won despite relatively strong counterplay on paper, while still pivoting around other Pokemon and using its defensive profile.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-878335 - this game was me vs Lana, pretty normal structure with speed control in Deoxys / Urshifu-R, a Dragon in Kyurem, DD Arceus-Poison. Yes, Arceus-Poison does go down early which was a misplay on her end. but there are not many Pokemon that can handle Arceus-Electric in general in this tier. If Urshifu were non Scarf and Tusk were Scarfed, Arceus would likely still be able to bruteforce through with Tera. Arceus essentially plays 1v5 with a standard set, forcing opposing Tera (and getting confused -> taking a super effective Earthquake and living only to continue setting up and progressing).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-880119 - on paper Arceus-Electric has sufficient counterplay. it could be whatever Ape set, but double Ground + Palk-O + Iceceus should be enough. It ends up being double ground + scarf ape with encore. I think some play could've caught me off guard here with Encoring on recover turns more aggressively, but Arceus-Electric doesn't just setup to win this game. I use it to check Palkia-O and Magearna long term, it kills an Arceus-Ice through speed tie war (though misplay from his end regardless to run that line), forces Lando to tera, and doesn't end up dead after checking all 6 mons all game while making a lot of progress.
Yes, Arceus-Electric contributes a lot defensively to the tier by checking everything. But that defensive capability is so good that it easily gets opportunities to recover momentum on nearly every defensive Pokemon on the tier off of base typing. The only cores that consistently force it out are Iron Treads / Scarf Tusk + Dialga / Arceus-Electric, and these cores are very suspectible to other common breakers such as Mewtwo / Deoxys (who I believe both contribute more defensively to this tier than Arc-Elec) and can be difficult to play around.
I think for a tier of Ubers UU power level, that Pokemon is still somewhat reasonable to check due to how strong opposing Arceus formes, Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Dialga are. But unlike the other Arceus formes, Arceus-Electric not only has a meta defining special set but a reasonably difficult to deal with physical one. A lot of the common physical setup mons / breakers are suspectible to priority or just lose to common defensive tools in this tier like Great Tusk / Mandibuzz / Choice Scarfer / Deoxys / Palafin / phazing Arceus formes / Gouging Fire.
I will be using my finals game for this one but I was using a weird DD Arceus-Electric set that beats the aforementioned list of counterplay almost perfectly (albeit some Tera mons can get annoying like Mandi): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-889254
Arceus-Electric @ Zap Plate Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Supercell Slam
- Tera Blast
I'd say Frito's team was quite good and had adequate counterplay to Arceus-Electric sets. I wasn't going crazy with this set imo, Arceus-Electric just naturally loves Tera Flying and Tera Fly Blast covers all the grounds / grasses that typically check it.
The Scarfers that revenge CM Arc-Elec like Tusk / speed booster Treads / Urshifu / Roaring Moon can pretty much not do enough damage to take out Arceus due to the raw bulk and Tera Fly. Earthquake slams Treads, Gouging Fire, and opposing Arceus-Electric. Since Frito's Arceus took very minimal chip on lead, it was pretty reasonable that Arceus could just win from this point. Arceus in general has a lot more flexibility due to its stats to do whatever it wants.
Generally, other Arceus formes have some great drawback in that Bug is shit, Dark has to get past Scarf Tusk + Magearna alongside not having a strong STAB move for physical sets, Fighting is mid in the double broken psychic tier, Grass is not a particularly good defensive typing into the other arceus formes like ice, poison, and even to an extent vs elec itself, Ice has a glaring rocks weakness in a tier with bad removal alongside no STAB for a physical set, Poison has to contend with the psychics and large number of grounds while its Calm Mind is significantly worse than other arceus formes due to the natural typing and reliance on coverage, Psychic can face competition from the other psychic types and is still onenote special attacking or cpbp, and Rock has some flexibility but ultimately struggles due to its natural typing even if the offensive coverage is excellent and can be either physical or special (rock is a little broken tho lowkey.).
Arceus-Electric has none of these drawbacks, can be physical or special, can fit whatever coverage or tera it wants, doesn't have many Grounds or Pokemon that can truly force it out, and also has an incredibly TWave immunity giving it many more setup opportunities against tier staples. I personally don't agree with Slikkles claims that you can tell on preview. I wouldn't be able to tell on preview on some of my teams if it was SD or DD or CM or support. I don't think most Dragons can take it on in this tier, and I have had Arceus-Electric bruteforce through all of them in various games.
I don't see other Arc formes to be as bad or centralizing. I had extra Tera Grounds / Grasses / Electrics on a lot of my mons in order to not lose to this mon, and I don't think its really feasible to cover this in builder. And like on top of this, this mon is fantastic in Ubers itself... like let bro go
I heavily support tiering action on Arceus-Electric.
Thank you everyone else for posting so that I did not have to double post! I greatly appreciate having more yappers around :D
Arceus-Elec was something I personally have been concerned with since about the 2nd week of Tina being gone in UMPL, as it because incredibly apparent that Its CM sets have been incredibly difficult to consistently check, causing some of the most siginifacnt warping in the meta I have seen since Zacian was around, with many adaptations being made in the speed control and hazard department to try manage it, sometimes to the detriment of other matchups (I'd argue the rise in ground types and speed control typically good into Arceus Electric is part of what makes Arceus-Ice feel a lot more strong right now). I think that alone is one of the biggest things contributing to my dislike for it in the current meta, but I'll
The tera type versatility in Arceus Electric both across its physical and special sets is a huge factor in making its counterplay feel underwhelming if not irrelevant. Its CM sets are often able to run away with games on their own, and with the defensive benefits that come from tera Fairy, Water, or even picks like Flying give it ways to circumvent would-be answers to it such as the commonly mentioned Great Tusk, Iron Treads, or in general fast attackers Zama, and even the DD Dragons with a boost. As Taka established, the physical sets are likely heavily underexplored as well - I myself have almost ran DD sets considering all of TB Fairy/Ice (ice sucks btw) or Tera Water + Liquidation, as they likely have a lot of merit to them. This of course doesn't even touch on the fact that with the best electric resist in the tier gone, Elec is likely the strongest E-Killer in the format as well due to its lack of a weakness to Mewtwo's psystrike. This is a level of versatility and power that no Arc has seen in recent times due to just how powerful it can be on both sides offensively, where even Poison can struggle with its CM sets due to its middling coverage options. The only place Elec falters is its solo defensive capabilities, but honestly you don't even need it to be defensive when its this damn good at breaking through the tier.
Another thing worth mentioning is how much this has warped both bulky teams and H/O structures alike, with offense's best answer to Arceus Electric often being to try and make sure it can't get that setup turn by out offensing it (which as mentioned can be very hard with tera), or running something like an Arceus Electric themselves. Arceus Electric's viability across all playstyles means that you are reasonably going to have to plan some form of countermeasure to it, and just hope that you aren't relying on your Great Tusk on the inevitable day that someone else choses to bust out TB flying and completely destroy you.
I think there is a world where it is a healthy prescense in this tier, as you can definatley argue that it has been a stifling prescense when it comes to Hyper Offense builds, being one of the better players bulky offense has had to even the playing field in some time. But as I did with Zacian, I think Elec just barely crosses the line on what I'd deem as an acceptable prescense in this tier - realistically not adding many true benefits to the functioning of the metagame. Slikkles mentioned Lugia, but I don't believe that theorymonning like that is a great way to try and justify a mon sticking around, especially when we will still have Arceus Ice and many other tools that can break it down even if they will not do it as easily as Arceus-Electric. As of now I'm likely leaning a ban vote on this one, but will still be happy to hear people out.
Arceus-Elec was something I personally have been concerned with since about the 2nd week of Tina being gone in UMPL, as it because incredibly apparent that Its CM sets have been incredibly difficult to consistently check, causing some of the most siginifacnt warping in the meta I have seen since Zacian was around, with many adaptations being made in the speed control and hazard department to try manage it, sometimes to the detriment of other matchups (I'd argue the rise in ground types and speed control typically good into Arceus Electric is part of what makes Arceus-Ice feel a lot more strong right now). I think that alone is one of the biggest things contributing to my dislike for it in the current meta, but I'll
The tera type versatility in Arceus Electric both across its physical and special sets is a huge factor in making its counterplay feel underwhelming if not irrelevant. Its CM sets are often able to run away with games on their own, and with the defensive benefits that come from tera Fairy, Water, or even picks like Flying give it ways to circumvent would-be answers to it such as the commonly mentioned Great Tusk, Iron Treads, or in general fast attackers Zama, and even the DD Dragons with a boost. As Taka established, the physical sets are likely heavily underexplored as well - I myself have almost ran DD sets considering all of TB Fairy/Ice (ice sucks btw) or Tera Water + Liquidation, as they likely have a lot of merit to them. This of course doesn't even touch on the fact that with the best electric resist in the tier gone, Elec is likely the strongest E-Killer in the format as well due to its lack of a weakness to Mewtwo's psystrike. This is a level of versatility and power that no Arc has seen in recent times due to just how powerful it can be on both sides offensively, where even Poison can struggle with its CM sets due to its middling coverage options. The only place Elec falters is its solo defensive capabilities, but honestly you don't even need it to be defensive when its this damn good at breaking through the tier.
Another thing worth mentioning is how much this has warped both bulky teams and H/O structures alike, with offense's best answer to Arceus Electric often being to try and make sure it can't get that setup turn by out offensing it (which as mentioned can be very hard with tera), or running something like an Arceus Electric themselves. Arceus Electric's viability across all playstyles means that you are reasonably going to have to plan some form of countermeasure to it, and just hope that you aren't relying on your Great Tusk on the inevitable day that someone else choses to bust out TB flying and completely destroy you.
I think there is a world where it is a healthy prescense in this tier, as you can definatley argue that it has been a stifling prescense when it comes to Hyper Offense builds, being one of the better players bulky offense has had to even the playing field in some time. But as I did with Zacian, I think Elec just barely crosses the line on what I'd deem as an acceptable prescense in this tier - realistically not adding many true benefits to the functioning of the metagame. Slikkles mentioned Lugia, but I don't believe that theorymonning like that is a great way to try and justify a mon sticking around, especially when we will still have Arceus Ice and many other tools that can break it down even if they will not do it as easily as Arceus-Electric. As of now I'm likely leaning a ban vote on this one, but will still be happy to hear people out.