Metagame SV Ubers UU Metagame Discussion (Spectrier Ban @ Post 702)

[mrsuslawl]

Hi, im kinda the HO guy here in the tier. Personally I think it is a viable playstyle, but it does face challenges in the tier. These can include the strong prio present in mons like palafin, chienpao and e killer arceus, or just bulkier mons like giratina if you don't have a gameplan for it. You can also struggle with stall but that's true for HO in near any tier and stall is itself not amazing in the tier due to breakers like mewtwo and chienpao. While these are challenges I believe most can be built around, but it is difficult to make a team which accomdates for all issues.

Here's a HO team I've been using somewhat recently, I find it quite fun and I think it's a good example of HO in the tier (minus the eleceus set maybe, that's just me being weird).

https://pokepast.es/ec7e5d3cadaa7256

thanks dad

 

[Kabilapok]

Don't know why this hasn't been posted yet but: first cumulative tier shifts for Ubers UU
Drops to Ubers UU

Hatterene

Rises to Ubers

Iron Treads

Ditto

It's the second time Hatterene and Iron Treads have switched places. Why can't they be together(in ubers uu)?? Ditto is instead the one following Iron Treads, for some reason.


The last time it was allowed, Hatterene didn't have a place because of how offensive the tier was. I believe it does have place now in being able to lessen the progress made by the different hazard and status spreaders.

Spreading paralysis with Nuzzle to mons that aren't Landos is BIG imo. Do you just let the mon that comes in after your Mag's Volt Switch get parad?? I know it won't be a Giratina without Hex. Might wanna use Flash Cannon Magearna just because...
It's also another Calm Mind user but one that isn't affected by Roar, Dragon Tail, and Taunt thanks to Magic Bounce and its Fairy typing. Draining Kiss, Mystical Fire, Psychic Noise, and Psyshock are great for it; Trick Room, Healing Wish, and Trick are useful for other scenarios.




This mon is good for the tier and I hate that Ubers robed it for the second time. It's a mon that can enable things.

Ditto does Ditto things.

 

[FishyRoads]

Will the existance of Hatterene make people reconsider Shadow Ball on Mewtwo?
I personally think so, though even Life Orb Fire Blast has good 2 hit ranges on non specially defensive Hatterene

 

[ValiantValerie]

Leo forgot

Round 4

All Arceus: 75.00% (W: 50.00%)

Magearna: 68.75% (W: 54.55%)
Zacian: 37.50% (W: 42.86%)
Landorus-Therian: 37.50% (W: 44.44%)
Giratina: 35.42% (W: 47.06%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 29.17% (W: 21.43%)
Terapagos: 27.08% (W: 46.15%)
Arceus-Poison: 25.00% (W: 33.33%)
Chien-Pao: 20.83% (W: 40.00%)
Arceus-Dark: 18.75% (W: 33.33%)
Mewtwo: 18.75% (W: 55.56%)
Arceus-Grass: 14.58% (W: 57.14%)
Slowking-Galar: 14.58% (W: 71.43%)
Toxapex: 14.58% (W: 28.57%)
Alomomola: 14.58% (W: 57.14%)
Chi-Yu: 12.50% (W: 50.00%)
Deoxys: 10.42% (W: 80.00%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 10.42% (W: 80.00%)
Landorus: 8.33% (W: 75.00%)
Garganacl: 8.33% (W: 50.00%)
Mandibuzz: 8.33% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Electric: 8.33% (W: 75.00%)
Palkia: 8.33% (W: 25.00%)
Roaring Moon: 8.33% (W: 75.00%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 6.25% (W: 33.33%)
Iron Treads: 6.25% (W: 66.67%)
Sneasler: 6.25% (W: 66.67%)
Great Tusk: 6.25% (W: 100.00%)
Regieleki: 6.25% (W: 66.67%)
Dialga: 6.25% W: 33.33%)
Deoxys-Speed: 6.25% (W: 33.33%)
Arceus-Dragon: 4.17% (W: 100.00%)
Palafin: 4.17% | 50.00% |
Gholdengo: 4.17% (W: 50.00%)
Solgaleo: 4.17% (W: 50.00%)
Urshifu: 4.17% (W: 50.00%)
Clefable: 4.17% (W: 100.00%)
Corviknight: 4.17% (W: 100.00%)
Toedscruel: 4.17% (W: 100.00%)
Tyranitar: 4.17% (W: 100.00%)
Reshiram: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Garchomp: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Indeedee: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Iron Crown: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Amoonguss: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Darkrai: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Dugtrio: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Volcarona: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Galvantula: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Blissey: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)|
Ditto: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Excadrill: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Lokix: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Araquanid: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Gouging Fire: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Torkoal: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Walking Wake: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Muk-Alola: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Rampardos: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Ursaluna: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Fighting: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)
Arcanine-Hisui: 2.08% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Rock: 2.08% (W: 100.00%)

Rounds 1-4

All Arceus: 79.45% (W: 51.10)

Magearna: 68.88% (W: 49.24%)
Landorus-Therian: 36.71% (W: 46.67%)
Zacian: 35.31% (W: 50.50%)
Arceus-Dark: 33.22% (W: 49.47%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 31.82% (W: 37.36%)
Terapagos: 27.97% (W: 57.50%)
Chien-Pao: 22.73% (W: 47.69%)
Giratina: 22.38% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Poison: 20.28% (W: 46.55%)
Landorus: 17.83% (W: 41.18%)
Mewtwo: 15.73% (W: 60.00%)
Palafin: 15.03% (W: 44.19%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 14.34% (W: 39.02%)
Slowking-Galar: 13.29% (W: 57.89%)
Toxapex: 12.24% (W: 42.86%)
Arceus-Grass: 11.89% (W: 50.00%)
Chi-Yu: 10.84% (W: 51.61%)
Deoxys: 10.84% (W: 51.84%)
Alomomola: 10.49% (W: 50.00%)
Sneasler: 8.74% (W: 44.00%)
Regieleki: 8.39% (W: 41.67%)
Iron Treads: 7.69% (W: 59.09%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 6.64% (W: 78.95%)
Kyurem-White: 6.29% (W: 50.00%)
Urshifu: 6.29% (W: 50.00%)
Spectrier: 5.94% (W: 70.59%)
Garganacl: 5.59% (W: 75.00%)
Dialga: 5.59% W: 46.67%)
Arceus-Electric: 4.90% (W: 78.57%)
Roaring Moon: 4.55% (W: 76.92%)
Solgaleo: 4.55% (W: 46.15%)
Deoxys-Speed: 4.55% (W: 69.23%)
Cyclizar: 4.55% (W: 53.85%)
Arceus-Dragon: 3.85% (W: 54.55%)
Palkia-Origin: 3.85% (W: 27.27%)
Mandibuzz: 3.50% (W: 70.00%)
Rillaboom: 3.50% (W: 40.00%)
Great Tusk: 3.15% (W: 88.89%)
Ursaluna: 3.15% (W: 22.22%)
Arceus-Fighting: 3.15% (W: 33.33%)
Palkia: 2.45% (W: 14.29%)
Gholdengo: 2.45% (W: 71.43%)
Baxcalibur: 2.45% (W: 71.43%)
Araquanid: 2.45% (W: 71.43%)
Galvantula: 2.10% (W: 33.33%)
Clefable: 2.10% (W: 66.67%)
Raging Bolt: 2.10% (W: 33.33%)
Corviknight: 2.10% (W: 66.67%)
Reshiram: 1.75% (W: 20.00%%)
Volcarona: 1.75% (W: 80.00%)
Annihilape: 1.75% (W: 60.00%)
Dragonite: 1.75% (W: 60.00%)
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 1.40% (W: 25.00%)
Ogerpon: 1.40% (W: 100.00%)
Iron Moth: 1.40% (W: 50.00%)
Iron Valiant: 1.40% (W: 50.00%)
Pincurchin: 1.40% (W: 50.00%)
Tyranitar: 1.40% (W: 75.00%)
Lugia: 1.40% (W: 25%)
Dugtrio: 1.05% (W: 66.67%)
Meowscarada: 1.05% (W: 33.33%)
Moltres: 1.05% (W: 100.00%)
Blissey: 1.05% (W: 33.33%)
Muk-Alola: 1.05% (W: 66.67%)
Rampardos: 1.05% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Rock: 1.05% (W: 66.67%)
Garchomp: 0.70% (W: 50.00%)
Indeedee: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Amoonguss: 0.70% (W: 100.00%)
Hoopa-Unbound: 0.70% (W: 50.00%)
Dialga-Origin: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Excadrill: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Torkoal: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Walking Wake: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Klefki: 0.70% (W: 50.00%)
Gouging Fire: 0.70% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Psychic: 0.70% (W: 100.00%)
Toedscruel: 0.70% (W: 100.00%)
Iron Crown: 0.70% (W: 0.00%)
Darkrai: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Moltres-Galar: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Ditto: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Lokix: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Lilligant-Hisui: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Skarmory: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Pelipper: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Ice: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Rotom-Wash: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Ninetales-Alola: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Slowking: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Samurott-Hisui: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Ninetales: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Dondozo: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus-Therian: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Arcanine-Hisui: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Breloom: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Dipplin: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Heatran: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Thundurus: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Kyurem: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Sableye: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Mamoswine: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Bug: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Quagsire: 0.35% (W: 100.00%)
Espeon: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)
Polteageist-Antique: 0.35% (W: 0.00%)

 

[ValiantValerie]

Round 5 + Round 4 Extentions

All Arceus: 78.57% (W: 45.45%)

Magearna: 82.14% (W: 47.83%)
Landorus-Therian: 42.86% (W: 66.67%)
Terapagos: 39.29% (W: 45.45%)
Giratina: 35.71% (W: 50.00%)
Zacian: 35.71% (W: 40.00%)
Chi-Yu: 32.14% (W: 44.44%)
Arceus-Poison: 28.57% (W: 37.50%)
Mewtwo: 25.00% (W: 71.43%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 21.43% (W: 33.33%)
Mandibuzz: 21.43% (W: 50.00%)
Alomomola: 17.86% (W: 40.00%)
Arceus-Electric: 14.29% (W: 100.00%)
Chien-Pao: 14.29% (W: 25.00%)
Arceus-Grass: 10.71% (W: 0.00%)
Palafin: 10.71% (W: 66.67%)
Araquanid: 7.14% (W: 100.00%)
Clefable: 7.14% (W: 100.00%)
Landorus: 7.14% (W: 100.00%)
Arceus-Dark: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Dragon: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Rock: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Dugtrio: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Garganacl: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Tyranitar: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Urshifu: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Deoxys-Speed: 7.14% (W: 0.00%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 7.14% (W: 0.00%)
Roaring Moon: 7.14% (W: 0.00%)
Iron Boulder: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Dragonite: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Palkia-Origin: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Sneasler: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Bug: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Annihilape: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Reshiram: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Gholdengo: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Great Tusk: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Dragapult: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Deoxys: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Raging Bolt: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Slowking-Galar: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Corviknight: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Toedscruel: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Hatterene: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Solgaleo: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Mamoswine: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Cyclizar: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Lugia: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)

Rounds 1-5

All Arceus: 80.13% (W: 50.00%)

Magearna: 70.06% (W: 49.09%)
Landorus-Therian: 37.26% (W: 48.72%)
Zacian: 35.35% (W: 49.55%)
Arceus-Dark: 30.89% (W: 49.48%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 30.89% (W: 37.11%)
Terapagos: 28.98% (W: 56.04%)
Giratina: 23.57% (W: 50.00%)
Chien-Pao: 21.97% (W: 46.38%)
Arceus-Poison: 21.02% (W: 45.45%)
Landorus: 16.88% (W: 43.40%)
Mewtwo: 16.56% (W: 61.54%)
Palafin: 14.65% (W: 45.65%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 13.46% (W: 38.10%)
Chi-Yu: 12.74% (W: 51.61%)
Slowking-Galar: 12.42% (W: 58.97%)
Arceus-Grass: 11.78% (W: 45.95%)
Toxapex: 11.15% (W: 42.86%)
Alomomola: 11.15% (W: 48.57%)
Deoxys: 10.19% (W: 56.25%)
Sneasler: 8.28% (W: 42.31%)
Regieleki: 7.64% (W: 41.67%)
Iron Treads: 7.01% (W: 59.09%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 6.69% (W: 71.43%)
Urshifu: 6.37% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Electric: 5.73% (W: 83.33%)
Garganacl: 5.73% (W: 72.22%)
Kyurem-White: 5.73% (W: 50.00%)
Spectrier: 5.41% (W: 70.59%)
Mandibuzz: 5.10% (W: 62.50%)
Dialga: 4.78% W: 46.67%)
Roaring Moon: 4.78% (W: 66.67%)
Deoxys-Speed: 4.78% (W: 60.00%)
Cyclizar: 4.46% (W: 50.00%)
Solgaleo: 4.46% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Dragon: 4.14% (W: 53.85%)
Palkia-Origin: 3.82% (W: 25.00%)
Great Tusk: 3.18% (W: 90.00%)
Rillaboom: 3.50% (W: 40.00%)
Ursaluna: 2.87% (W: 22.22%)
Arceus-Fighting: 2.87% (W: 33.33%)
Araquanid: 2.87% (W: 77.78%)
Clefable: 2.55% (W: 75.00%)
Gholdengo: 2.55% (W: 75.00%)
Palkia: 2.23% (W: 14.29%)
Baxcalibur: 2.23% (W: 71.43%)
Raging Bolt: 2.23% (W: 42.86%)
Corviknight: 2.23% (W: 71.43%)
Reshiram: 1.91% (W: 33.33%)
Galvantula: 1.91% (W: 33.33%)
Annihilape: 1.91% (W: 66.67%)
Dragonite: 1.91% (W: 50.00%)
Tyranitar: 1,91% (W: 66.67%)
Arceus-Rock: 1.59% (W: 66.67%)
Volcarona: 1.59% (W: 80.00%)
Lugia: 1.59% (W: 20.00%)
Dugtrio: 1.59% (W: 60.00%)
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 1.27% (W: 25.00%)
Ogerpon: 1.27% (W: 100.00%)
Iron Moth: 1.27% (W: 50.00%)
Iron Valiant: 1.27% (W: 50.00%)
Pincurchin: 1.27% (W: 50.00%)
Moltres: 0.96% (W: 100.00%)
Toedscruel: 0.96% (W: 100.00%)
Blissey: 0.96% (W: 33.33%)
Muk-Alola: 0.96% (W: 66.67%)
Rampardos: 0.96% (W: 0.00%)
Garchomp: 0.64% (W: 50.00%)
Indeedee: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Amoonguss: 0.64% (W: 100.00%)
Hoopa-Unbound: 0.64% (W: 50.00%)
Dialga-Origin: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Excadrill: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Torkoal: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Walking Wake: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Klefki: 0.64% (W: 50.00%)
Gouging Fire: 0.64% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Psychic: 0.64% (W: 100.00%)
Arceus-Bug: 0.64% (W: 50.00%)
Mamoswine: 0.64% (W: 0.00%)
Iron Boulder: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Iron Crown: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Darkrai: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Moltres-Galar: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Ditto: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Lokix: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Lilligant-Hisui: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Skarmory: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Pelipper: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Ice: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Rotom-Wash: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Ninetales-Alola: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Slowking: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Samurott-Hisui: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Ninetales: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Dondozo: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Dragapult: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Hatterene: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus-Therian: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Arcanine-Hisui: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Breloom: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Dipplin: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Heatran: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Thundurus: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Kyurem: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Sableye: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Quagsire: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Espeon: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)
Polteageist-Antique: 0.32% (W: 0.00%)

 

[KineSquared]

What are we finding the role of hatterene to be? Magic guard wall? Cm offense? Nuzzle status spreader with AV? How's it going

 

[Imperial]

survey time chat.

3/10
annoying to play against but i attribute that more to tera than to ndw itself. Its and excellent spinblocker and its super nice as a switchin to alot of thigns with clear cut counterplay (tera notwithstanding), and i personally like what it does for this tier, but it definitely forces darkceus/pagos/mandi on alot of teams because of how strong it is (though it hink you should have a ghost resist regardless), if tera blast withstands i'd probably put this at 6/10 maybe 7.

4/10
its strong. its fast. thats about it. idt its banworthy or remotely close too, and ndw is more problematic because ndw doesn't really have a check on every team like pao does, but ndw is also lower lows and higher highs.

5/10
its arceus. best form imo, and taunt darkceus is probably the biggest ruiner of my cooking. 5/10 is a bit harsh but i've hated on this mon for so long.

7/10
on the topic of mons i've hated since the start we have this freak of nature. this mons has 0 reliable switchins, and can basically mix and match to ruin whatever it wants. the msot consistent thing that "checks" it is a toss up between darkceus & mandi but both either get focus blasted or ice beamed respectively, and koff also ruins mandi w/ hazard up. you kinda jsut have to scout its set into everything, and out of everything its the only one i personally want to see something done about.

1/10
omegalol

(this sprite sucks vesp ) 10/10
i hate this move, 10 is extremely harsh but i genuinely think this move is the biggest problem with the metagame atm. nearly every top offensive threat can run it to ruin its checks days, and it makes defending so much harder when you can randomly lose your key pokemon to an untelegraphed tera blast. sure, zacian can use the move, and its usually telegraphen when it does, but it still has to pick between two of them and everyone knows whens its coming because it only really has 1 popular set. NDW & Chien-Pao amke it obnoxious, because the cm sets and sd sets can end games with this move very quickly (ndw especially) and i've even seen other pokemon use it to blow past shit with almsot 0 counterplay. Deoxys clicks tb on your mag and now it wins? tough luck. cm ndw beats your darkceus because of tb? unfortunate doesn't begin to describe. you CAN scout for this move, but its so unnecessary to the health of the metagame and, imo, makes it far less enjoyable.

i put both arceus unbans at a 5 because idrc, they'll get rebanned either way but they probably could have a chance, the metagame, if anything, needs less arceus not more. if you think my opinions suck you're more than welcome to @ me in the discord about why my opinions suck.

 

[Kabilapok]

What are we finding the role of hatterene to be? Magic guard wall? Cm offense? Nuzzle status spreader with AV? How's it going

People are still keeping up with Eject Button pivot sets and rightfully so. Pair it with Healing Wish and you enable pretty much anything.
From my testings, CM offense is much more Tera reliant, and taking an opportunity to Nuzzle can leave you too weak to do anything the next time. I'm interested in AV, tough. That's something I would like to try. It's a matter of people using it more.



Survey time!!

Dawn-Wings 4
Yes, Dawn-Wings is annoying but it's a powerhouse of a beast to use right now. 4 because it's somewhat of a problem to not ignore but fine at the same time. Not much to say on it that isn't already known.

Darkeus 2
I like its place rn but for me using it makes you more vulnerable to get cheesed on by fairy / tera fairy so it's forced to tera often which can be good for the Darkeus user. Justifiable to use and less of a banworthy mon.

Chien-Pao 7
Zacian 9

These 2 are what force mons on teams and for me that's what's pushing the meta in an unhealthy state. You have to account for their speed and their coverage in the builder and that can be too much. Factor Tera Blast in there and it's just a mess of everything. Though, I always viewed them problematic without Tera Blast; and just for their sheer power. That's what causing teams to crumble so easily nowadays. Chien-Pao a little less because Zacian is better and I absolutely hate Pao Dittos; though I still find Chien-Pao problematic. For me the question is often "is my team weak Pao or Zacian??" and it's rare to be against both on the same team but I believe there is a possibility for this kind of thinking to be less common. Or maybe it's just me.

Mewtwo 1
I think Mewtwo is still kind of a hidden gem right now though it has proved itself to be far more than that recently. Maybe "overshadowed" would be the word? I personally don't find it banworthy.

Tera Blast 5
I'm still undecided about Tera Blast. I understand the arguments making it banworthy but I'm more in favor for banning the abusers of the move; and I believe this should be a priority. Of course it sucks when your Magearna drops to Tera blast Zacian but is it really Tera Blast if Zacian has already proved itself to do much more?

Hoping on what's coming next for the tier!

 

[Finchely]

ig i'll share my views

1
This thing is strong yes. CM is arguably kind of busted but I think it's definitely the fault of tera blast rather than NDW itself. Something to note about NDW is that asides from CM sets, it fills the role of an extremely valuable defensive utility pokemon. It's absurdly fat and can switch into the many high-powered attacks thrown around in the tier, and I think it would be a damn shame if the pokemon got banned when tera blast is right there.

4
Not much I can really add to the discourse that Imp hasn't already contributed. It's absurdly fast and powerful but that's why we run physdef mag on every team. It's not even a strain to have to run mag on every team cause it's that good anyways. Furthermore, Pao is not easy to just slot onto a team, and has difficulties hitting the field. The most problematic thing I'm seeing about Pao rn is the SD sets really. Icicle Crash flinches are nasty, and tera blast sets are also stupid but again I believe that Tera Blast is a bulshit move and this is just another instance where it's only adding more unnecessary offensive volatility

6
CM arceus is one of the strongest pokemon in the tier imo and arc-dark is one of if not the best ones at it. Whether it's wisp cm or taunt CM, it can absolutely destroy a team and every team needs a way of dealing with it pre and post tera. Tbh I think that tera is really what pushes darceus into suspect territory (asw as every other arceus), but tera isn't going any time soon. The one thing I am concerned about is that with Darceus being gone, we would lose a cruicial defensive piece of our meta. While Darceus is by no means a hard wall to any pokemon in our meta, cm arc is a cruicial defensive staple on most teams against the high powered special attackers going around. Darceus is one of the most effective arceus formes at this role cause it's hit neutrally by a lot of things and also helps out a bit with ghost and psychic types.

6
Mewtwo is pretty crazy and has seemingly infinite versatility. My biggest issue with it though is that it has 4mss and can't run everything it needs to effectively hit needs to and in that sense there's a bit of matchup fishing involved imo. Mewtwo is also one of the best answers to tera poison CM arceus, and a m2 ban would only contribute to the centralization of CM arc imo.

:zacian-hero: 1
This pokemon has and always will be the skill check of Ubers UU. It's great bulk and ability to clean games makes it very intimidating for many newcomers, but it's really not that hard to counter at all. Case a): Magearna; Mag should be on basically every team, and forces big chip on Zacian unless Zacian pops Tera Blast (again, atp we've had 3 abusers of tera blast), but if you have something like Palafin you can now easily revenge that ground or fire type. Case b): Landorus-Therian; Lando t should also be on most teams, intimidate + rocky helmet is one hell of a drug and also scarf lando helps revenge it too esp if it turned into a fire type. Case c): NDW; physdef ndw gets 3hkoed by +1 play rough and doesn't even die to +3 play rough. Even if you're not physdef, you can still sponge a hit if you predict the swords dance on the switch correctly. Afterwards just hit it with a moongeist and all of a sudden its in revenge range. The thing is that Zacian doesn't have perfect defensive counterplay in this tier, a lot of things don't. But Zacian has to typically commit pretty hard to its sweep due to intrepid only working on first switch in, and it's really not super difficult to force chip onto zacian until you can revenge it with your scarfer or whatever.

(tera blast) 10
Yeah this move is stupid. Tera is also stupid imo but that's another topic. Tera Blast inherently can only contribute to the offensive volatility of the tier while doing nothing to help defense. Even if it's a very committal thing and may not actually be the best thing to do, it's still unhealthy in that it leads to games where you can't make accurate informed decisions about what your opponent is capable of. Most of all, I believe that the most prominent users of tera blast in the tier are actually quite healthy barring their use of tera blast, and to see them go would be a shame imo. Also everything else imp said

Arceus re-tests 1
Arceus-Flying is busted af. Immune to spikes and tspikes and has one of the most spammable stab judgements in the game. Rocks weakness isn't a valid argument, we saw that with Arc-Fire that despite its rocks weakness its sheer offensive capability was enough to get it banned. Arc steel is less so broken but, poison immune and rocks resistant is pretty crazy. It also has a super spammable judgmenet type and I can honeslty see it being really busted with tera cause there's already very strained ways in which you could revenge it.

 

[Fc]

Forgot what I put for half the survey responses so thanks kine for sending me them so I could post, just wanted to share a bit since people are doing that here.

I had enjoyment at 8 and balance at 7, metagame is pretty solid nothing too overwhelming aside from 1 thing imo. Also said don't free any arceus I think that would be a terrible idea for balance.

Zacian was the only thing I put at a 1 for brokenness, I think this mon is like fringe top 5, mag darkceus ndw clear easily then it's a toss up between pao lando t and it for the next slots imo, but it's not that difficult to pack checks to this thing and if it wants to get more than like a single kill it usually is a dedicated tera user which is iffy because of how valuable tera is in this meta. Helmet is easy to put on mons and you usually need speed control or strong prio anyway so it's not a big commitment to check. Intrepid being one time is also one of its worst traits, it can't be used to wear down a team bc it just doesn't threaten anything the second time. Not a bad mon but not broken imo.

Tera blast + + I put all these things at a 2, tera blast ban is kinda bad to me I think you either kill the mechanic or just ban like 1 mon, I think the only broken outlier with it is ndw the other mons are mid with it. Eleki probably second best I don't rate pao or zac with it much and eleki relies the most on it while not being too trash. Pao is good but super frail and walled by the best mon in the tier unless it wants to commit to always tera blasting, in which case you have defensive response tera and it's already revealed its set to have no prio or no good stabs both of which are bad. Even with gira and pagos hazards are really hard to keep off the field, so non boots sets are hard to use if it isn't sash on HO which is good but still has weaknesses and relies on icicle crash flinches. Without flinches this thing is a 1 but it can flinch so it's a 2. Mewtwo is also like a paper mon, it's slower than a lot of the top guys and while in theory it beats everything you can't do it all on one set, so it either becomes too weak, too easy to wear down, or lacks coverage for notable mons like mag darkceus ndw which it needs something different for all of them. Strong just not broken.

I had darkceus at a 4, I don't actually think it needs to be banned it's just stronger than the other mons and hard to get rid of but you can build around it since only really 1 set is super winning games, the support sets are annoyances but nothing close to broken, similar to support poisonceus or like grassceus which doesn't exist much but can. Top 2 mon but should stay in the tier.

Put this mon at a 9, only thing that needs to be banned rn imo. Ghost is just too good of an attacking typing when you can tera since there's like a single viable bulky dark that actually lives moongesists and maybe 3 viable normals if you really stretch your definition of viable really hard. Its bulk makes it really difficult to revenge kill even if it's a dedicated tera user for the team, since with prism armour almost nothing drops fairy or fighting ndw from full. It has huge set variety and the easiest time breaking through its checks at the least cost on its moveset and for your team, so I think it's too strong.

Frito also wanted me to say she voted similar, just didn't post. But we've talked about the survey and both think ndw is broken and most things are fine for now aside from it.

 

[Poosh_i]

3

One thing I will add here is that is a consistent answer to setup NDW. CM cannot fit photon geyser, which is the one way it has of dealing with terapagos. The support set can, but that's a healthy switch-in to terap and not the other way around.

2

Only a problem with Tera Blast. Will elaborate below.

4

This thing is a major threat for many teams and is arguably our strongest sweeper not reliant on Tera to solo certain structures.

10

I despise this thing's presence in the tier. It's not *fast* fast, but it's faster than all but Deoxys, Zacian, Chien-Pao and Eleki. None of these pokemon can switch into M2 safely without dangerous predicts, so they can *only* be used to revenge. Zacian at +1 cannot even kill an M2 from full without like, Tera Dark Crunch - and it will 2HKO you back. The other options generally allow M2 to switch out for like Magearrna. You almost always have to lose a mon to get one of these in safely, and there is no possible single pokemon answer to the insanely deep coverage M2 has at it's disposal - crippling teams with knock off, blowing up magearna with fire blast, ice beam for landorus and mandibuzz, the list goes on. I would argue that M2 is THE reason a team NEEDs speed control, as all of these faster threats than M2 can be answered with slower defensive pokemon.

2

lol.

I will mention that I do think Tera Blast-less sets are still good - Psyfangs is a great way to hit arceus poison, and you can choose Tera Psychic or Tera Fighting to boost these moves.

(tera blast) 9

I think that people need to consider more about what pokemon end up down here in Ubers UU from Ubers, and because of this I do not like people directly relating terastalization wholly as a mechanic with what tera blast does to the tier in terms of offensive play.

First up - Many of the best offensive threats in this tier have the symptom of having TERRIBLE coverage. NDW cannot hit Arceus-Dark supereffectively without Tera Blast. Chien-Pao cannot hit Magearna without Tera Blast. Zacian *can* hit Magearna with... Fire Fang (Which doesn't kill with Tera Fire) and Dig. Other more niche options like Eleki are worth a mention but I would not say are primary driving factors in my opinion of it. (Tera Ice is used to hit like 2 pokemon, and it would use the move even still if Tera as a whole was banned to hit grounds) In short, due to the relatively shallow movepools, many of these top threats can easily choose to fit Tera Blast compared to just about any other metagame to my knowledge. While prior precedent for tiers like OU would be to just ban the pokemon in question (Volcarona is a good example of a similar scenario), unlike these other cases. Zacian, NDW and Pao are otherwise all healthy presences to the tier, and banning any of them would ruin the very delicate balance we have right now (Arceus-Dark and M2 become even more problematic if any combination of these go tbh). Lastly, the common Tera types used for all of these pokemon are ALREADY some of their best Tera options, whether to absorb status moves like Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp (things that otherwise are good midground answers to Pao and Zacian), or to prevent phasing and dark damage on NDW.

Without Tera Blast, NDW cannot hit Arceus-Dark, regardless of whether or not it's Tera Fairy. Zacian and Chien-Pao can no longer kill Magearna in one hit, giving you an option to more safely Encore, Thunder Wave, or revenge these Pokemon. Getting rid of Tera Blast will not make these Pokemon objectively less viable except for NDW. While potentially testing Terastalization as a whole would be a more ideal approach, this method would both kill the skill expression that defensive Tera has, and would garner less support than getting rid of Tera Blast.

 

[ValiantValerie]

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings 2
Similar to what everyone has pointed out already, I think the tier without NDW will be worse than the tier with NDW. Really nice spin blocker and SpD wall forcing many Mewtwo to go Knock Off, aka Magearna food. Tera Blast is definitely the toxic part and no one likes the move anyway.

Chien-Pao 4
Has been discussed plenty in this thread before the survey and same points still stand. It's either too weak or weak to hazards to break through a team, esp when walled by the best Pokemon in the tier (outside of toxic Tera Blast). Only question is if Chien-Pao forcing Magearna on even more teams is banworthy, and I'm comfortably no right now.

Arceus-Dark 3
Pokemon is pretty fine imo, If anything I'd love for it to stay as a way to help against the special nukes and set up Pokemon in the tier. A team should be plenty prepared for Arceus-Dark with the tier's fast threats, it does discourage slower teams but there's no saving those even with Darkceus gone tbh. Support sets feel like they have a positive effect on the tier too. Also losing Arceus-Dark could lead to losing NDW which is super lame and makes the tier a lot worse imo.

Mewtwo 7
Very surprised this thing hasn't been suspected yet, no true check and can adapt to any metagame changes that hurt it. Sure, it does have 4mss, but all that really means is get checked by Magearna or Giratina/SpD NDW/Mandibuzz. Being forced to use both of them and scout the set just to get a safe team against Mewtwo is crazy to me. Not to mention that half of them lack reliable recovery and are tasked with checking other threats. It's also not the easiest thing to revenge kill, as all of the Pokemon can't switch in and are either ruined by chip or Tera. Definitely the most broken Pokemon in the tier right now and is better off gone.

Zacian 1
Zacian is a huge reason this tier is playable imo, does its job at revenge killing almost anything potentially problematic really well. It's very hard to actually lose to this Pokemon, NDW and both Landorus-T sets trade with it, it's forced to commit to Tera Blast vs Magearna, Arceus-Poison, and if not running Psyfangs, Toxapex. After committing Tera, Zacian is suddenly forced out by Palafin, a Scarfer, or sometimes Terapagos and Ice Shard Chien-Pao. After being forced out once, it loses significant power and now even more Pokemon don't mind coming in to threaten it.

Tera Blast 7
I don't think enough Pokemon are actually broken with it, hell I think it's debatable that anything is that broken with Tera Blast. However, this move is incredibly toxic, it enables dumb interactions and forces you to commit to unnecessary plays, scouting for it is awful and it goes beyond the Pokemon that commonly run it (Zacian, NDW, occasional Deoxys). Random Pokemon can just slap on a rare Tera Blast and break past an otherwise safe check. s/o Tera Steel Tera Blast Chien-Pao and Tera Ice Tera Blast Landorus on ladder. I think Tera Blast actively makes the tier worse and even if it's not exactly broken, I'd be very happy to see this go.

Arceus-Flying 3
If only ground immunities weren't so broken... Pretty much no counterplay with how scarce Flying resists other than Magearna are. Magearna itself gets shut down by Taunt or is taking Earth Powers on its weaker side.)

Arceus-Steel 8
Bulky Ice, Fairy, and Norman resist? Yes please! I think this would be really nice for the meta without being extreme. It overlaps with Magearna as a Steel-type and there are plenty of good Pokemon that can be used to handle it. It doesn't trade with Landorus very well, hates Chi-Yu, Ogerpon, and sun which get better thanks to Hatt. Can even fall back on Zamazenta-C and Arceus-Electric or more niche options like Solgaleo to take it on. This is probably still pretty sketchy but I find Arceus-Steel's defensive presence more than enough reason to give it a chance, especially since its ban is from all the way back in October.

Also to prevent this post from almost being a copy paste of most takes, want to nominate something I find more problematic than half of the stuff on the survey

Chi-Yu
Checks are not real, Scarf gets so many opportunities to come in and nuke your team, Fire resists are either not Fire resists (Alomomola) or weak to Dark Pulse (Giratina). Specs also gets many opportunities to come in because you can larp as Scarf and probably pick up a kill. Hazard removal being very poor in the tier and sun being ass keeps Chi-Yu manageable for me. I do find Chi-Yu very annoying to play against and have went crazy enough to use Diancie.

 

[Poosh_i]

Hey all, with most of the Round 1 matches from the Ghosting Tour in, I wanted to highlight a few feature matches that I think are well worth the watch. Very impressed with many of the innovations these teams found, and I will continue to share similar quality replays in the coming weeks. When the rest of the matches are finalized, I will also compile usage stats for Week 1.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ubersuu-781612 3DXXX777 vs Winter Is Coming

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike has and will likely never see a better matchup in it's career. Winter is Coming brought a very interesting Arc-less core using Pex + Eleki + Tar, and it ultimately paid off as Tar was able to stomach and revenge a surprise Meteor Beam NDW. Best of luck to both of these teams in the coming week!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2164913983 Team 20 vs sknmdeelectricidad

Possibly the wildest Deo-S into Deo-N lead matchup I've ever seen. A screens mirror that also features Boom Eleki and Red Card Fire Fang Zacian, I was surprised nearly every single turn of this match.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2164421942-fq8sg12ulglpvctbzaq3xmo3ogkgbv0pw Tax Evaders vs Almighty Dwebble

This replay to me is the biggest example of why you must take Zacian very seriously in teambuilding. Tera Blast Ground managed to solo The Almighty Dwebble's entire team and prevented Thunder Wave Magearna from slowing it down.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2164817639 Team 57 vs Kobeni's Car Crash

An Orthworm mirror was an absolute shock to see, let alone a mirror where not a single Shed Tail ended up being used. Team 57 pulled off an amazing sequence of initial turns by utilizing Ice Beam + Fire Blast Arceus Poison. A very quick, brutal game that highlights the flexibility of Arceus' Special coverage options.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2164827454-huiglqgn9ul183ud7vgwouz5eobh58opw Nissan al-Gaib vs Team 41

Calm Mind Nuzzle Hatterene is a very creative set that proved to be very powerful into Team 41's defensive core of Giratina + Toxapex, and was able to comfortably fend off support Darkceus and Chien-Pao to pull off a clean 6-0. Looking forward to seeing what Nissan al-Gaib brings next week.

 

[Finchely]

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings 2
Similar to what everyone has pointed out already, I think the tier without NDW will be worse than the tier with NDW. Really nice spin blocker and SpD wall forcing many Mewtwo to go Knock Off, aka Magearna food. Tera Blast is definitely the toxic part and no one likes the move anyway.

Chien-Pao 4
Has been discussed plenty in this thread before the survey and same points still stand. It's either too weak or weak to hazards to break through a team, esp when walled by the best Pokemon in the tier (outside of toxic Tera Blast). Only question is if Chien-Pao forcing Magearna on even more teams is banworthy, and I'm comfortably no right now.

Arceus-Dark 3
Pokemon is pretty fine imo, If anything I'd love for it to stay as a way to help against the special nukes and set up Pokemon in the tier. A team should be plenty prepared for Arceus-Dark with the tier's fast threats, it does discourage slower teams but there's no saving those even with Darkceus gone tbh. Support sets feel like they have a positive effect on the tier too. Also losing Arceus-Dark could lead to losing NDW which is super lame and makes the tier a lot worse imo.

Mewtwo 7
Very surprised this thing hasn't been suspected yet, no true check and can adapt to any metagame changes that hurt it. Sure, it does have 4mss, but all that really means is get checked by Magearna or Giratina/SpD NDW/Mandibuzz. Being forced to use both of them and scout the set just to get a safe team against Mewtwo is crazy to me. Not to mention that half of them lack reliable recovery and are tasked with checking other threats. It's also not the easiest thing to revenge kill, as all of the Pokemon can't switch in and are either ruined by chip or Tera. Definitely the most broken Pokemon in the tier right now and is better off gone.

Zacian 1
Zacian is a huge reason this tier is playable imo, does its job at revenge killing almost anything potentially problematic really well. It's very hard to actually lose to this Pokemon, NDW and both Landorus-T sets trade with it, it's forced to commit to Tera Blast vs Magearna, Arceus-Poison, and if not running Psyfangs, Toxapex. After committing Tera, Zacian is suddenly forced out by Palafin, a Scarfer, or sometimes Terapagos and Ice Shard Chien-Pao. After being forced out once, it loses significant power and now even more Pokemon don't mind coming in to threaten it.

Tera Blast 7
I don't think enough Pokemon are actually broken with it, hell I think it's debatable that anything is that broken with Tera Blast. However, this move is incredibly toxic, it enables dumb interactions and forces you to commit to unnecessary plays, scouting for it is awful and it goes beyond the Pokemon that commonly run it (Zacian, NDW, occasional Deoxys). Random Pokemon can just slap on a rare Tera Blast and break past an otherwise safe check. s/o Tera Steel Tera Blast Chien-Pao and Tera Ice Tera Blast Landorus on ladder. I think Tera Blast actively makes the tier worse and even if it's not exactly broken, I'd be very happy to see this go.

Arceus-Flying 3
If only ground immunities weren't so broken... Pretty much no counterplay with how scarce Flying resists other than Magearna are. Magearna itself gets shut down by Taunt or is taking Earth Powers on its weaker side.)

Arceus-Steel 8
Bulky Ice, Fairy, and Norman resist? Yes please! I think this would be really nice for the meta without being extreme. It overlaps with Magearna as a Steel-type and there are plenty of good Pokemon that can be used to handle it. It doesn't trade with Landorus very well, hates Chi-Yu, Ogerpon, and sun which get better thanks to Hatt. Can even fall back on Zamazenta-C and Arceus-Electric or more niche options like Solgaleo to take it on. This is probably still pretty sketchy but I find Arceus-Steel's defensive presence more than enough reason to give it a chance, especially since its ban is from all the way back in October.

Also to prevent this post from almost being a copy paste of most takes, want to nominate something I find more problematic than half of the stuff on the survey

Chi-Yu
Checks are not real, Scarf gets so many opportunities to come in and nuke your team, Fire resists are either not Fire resists (Alomomola) or weak to Dark Pulse (Giratina). Specs also gets many opportunities to come in because you can larp as Scarf and probably pick up a kill. Hazard removal being very poor in the tier and sun being ass keeps Chi-Yu manageable for me. I do find Chi-Yu very annoying to play against and have went crazy enough to use Diancie.

Enough with the Chi-Yu hate, seriously it's not that bad.

Arceus-Dragon
Spdef Mandi
Pex
140 spdef Mola

These are all Pokemon that handle Chi-Yu pretty decently. Sure pex and mola don't like takign a dark pulse, but by virtue of regenerator they can more easily afford to take a hit and then swap out to a dark resist. Scarf Chi-Yu's best matchups tend to be into offense teams that can't afford to typically run passive momentum sinks, but that's where Arc-Dragon comes into play as an incredibly useful fire/water resist on offense teams. And yea Chi-Yu can larp scarf pretty well when it's actually specs, but once the set is revealed Chi-Yu becomes significantly easier to play around. If they got a really important kill on you because you didn't consider the possibility of specs, that's honestly on you for making what was a risky play.

 

[ValiantValerie]

Enough with the Chi-Yu hate, seriously it's not that bad.

Arceus-Dragon
Spdef Mandi
Pex
140 spdef Mola

These are all Pokemon that handle Chi-Yu pretty decently. Sure pex and mola don't like takign a dark pulse, but by virtue of regenerator they can more easily afford to take a hit and then swap out to a dark resist. Scarf Chi-Yu's best matchups tend to be into offense teams that can't afford to typically run passive momentum sinks, but that's where Arc-Dragon comes into play as an incredibly useful fire/water resist on offense teams. And yea Chi-Yu can larp scarf pretty well when it's actually specs, but once the set is revealed Chi-Yu becomes significantly easier to play around. If they got a really important kill on you because you didn't consider the possibility of specs, that's honestly on you for making what was a risky play.

I have two problems with this

1. None of these Pokemon are 'good good', not very splashable, come with their own issues, and you usually have to try to fit them on a team
2. Toxapex is the only real check here and its a passive blob. Others can threaten damage/set-up or pivot something in but Toxapex just sits there and invites basically any Pokemon on their side.

Mandibuzz and Alomomola take way too much damage, they have to stay fully healthy throughout the game to actually switch into Ch-Yu, and If Chi-Yu Tera Fires, just straight up 2HKOs them. I'm not as confident on Arceus-Dragon but that's mainly because I'm not sure what spread people use. The calc has 252/252 offensive which is 2HKOd by Dark Pulse after rocks most of the time, so it really takes one wrong read for Arc Dragon to not count as a Chi-Yu switch in, especially without Regenrator unlike Toxapex and Alomomola.

Funny feesh

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 153-181 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (+ Flinch chance.)

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 180-212 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 240-283 (48 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 262-309 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 184-217 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 246-290 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 90-107 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 21.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 121-143 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO

As for Specs, you can't really account for it, seriously what are you switching into Choice Specs Fire Blast and then not losing a Pokemon? It can probably pick up another kill by coming in (safely but how hard is that really.) on Magearna, NDW, Landorus-T, Giratina, and Arceus-Dark. Chi-Yu is definitely dumber than something like Chien-Pao.

 

[ValiantValerie]

Seasonal stuff

Round 6 + Round 5 Extentions

All Arceus: 82.14% (W: 52.17%)

Magearna: 50.00% (W: 42.86%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 46.43% (W: 38.46%)
Zacian: 42.86% (W: 75.00%)
Arceus-Dark: 42.86% (W: 58.33%)
Landorus-Therian: 35.71% (W: 50.00%)
Terapagos: 32.14% (W: 22.22%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 25.00% (W: 85.71%)
Giratina: 21.43% (W: 83.33%)
Arceus-Poison: 17.86% (W: 60.00%)
Landorus: 17.86% (W: 40%)
Arceus-Electric: 14.29% (W: 50.00%)
Dragonite: 14.29% (W: 50.00%)
Palafin: 14.29% (W: 25.00%)
Chien-Pao: 14.29% (W: 0.00%)
Chi-Yu: 10.71% (W: 100.00%)
Deoxys-Speed: 10.71% (W: 66.67%)
Kyurem-White: 10.71% (W: 66.67%)
Roaring Moon: 10.71% (W: 66.67%)
Cyclizar: 10.71% (W: 33.33%)
Sneasler: 10.71% (W: 33.33%)
Slowking-Galar: 10.71% (W: 33.33%)
Galvantula: 7.14% (W: 100.00%)
Spectrier: 7.14% (W: 100.00%)
Alomomola: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Corviknight: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Excadrill: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Great Tusk: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Solgaleo: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Torkoal: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Walking Wake: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 7.14% (W: 50.00%)
Deoxys: 7.14% (W: 0.00%)
Toxapex: 7.14% (W: 0.00%)
Urshifu: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Arceus-Dragon: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Palkia-Origin: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Rillaboom: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Fighting: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Araquanid: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Toedscruel: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Mamoswine: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)
Dragapult: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Mewtwo: 3.57% (W: 0.00%)
Diancie: 3.57% (W: 100.00%)

Rounds 1-6

All Arceus: 79.82% (W: 50.91%)

Magearna: 68.42% (W: 48.72%)
Landorus-Therian: 37.13% (W: 48.82%)
Zacian: 35.96% (W: 52.03%)
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 32.16% (W: 37.27%)
Arceus-Dark: 31.87% (W: 50.46%)
Terapagos: 29.24% (W: 53.00%)
Giratina: 23.39% (W: 52.50%)
Chien-Pao: 21.35% (W: 43.84%)
Arceus-Poison: 20.76% (W: 46.48%)
Landorus: 16.96% (W: 43.10%)
Mewtwo: 15.50% (W: 60.38%)
Palafin: 14.62% (W: 44.00%)
Zamazenta-Crowned: 12.79% (W: 40.48%)
Chi-Yu: 12.57% (W: 53.49%)
Slowking-Galar: 12.28% (W: 57.14%)
Alomomola: 10.82% (W: 48.65%)
Arceus-Grass: 10.82% (W: 45.95%)
Toxapex: 10.,82% (W: 40.54%)
Deoxys: 9.94% (W: 52.94%)
Sneasler: 8.48% (W: 41.38%)
Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 8.19% (W: 75.00%)
Arceus-Electric: 6.43% (W: 77.27%)
Iron Treads: 6.43% (W: 59.09%)
Regieleki: 6.43% (W: 41.67%)
Kyurem-White: 6.14% (W: 52.38%)
Urshifu: 6.14% (W: 52.38%)
Spectrier: 5.56% (W: 73.68%)
Garganacl: 5.26% (W: 72.22%)
Roaring Moon: 5.26% (W: 66.67%)
Deoxys-Speed: 5.26% (W: 61.11%)
Cyclizar: 4.97% (W: 47.06%)
Mandibuzz: 4.68% (W: 62.50%)
Solgaleo: 4.68% (W: 50.00%)
Dialga: 4.39% W: 46.67%)
Arceus-Dragon: 4.09% (W: 50.00%)
Palkia-Origin: 3.80% (W: 30.77%)
Great Tusk: 3.51% (W: 83.33%)
Rillaboom: 3.22% (W: 36.36%)
Araquanid: 2.92% (W: 70.00%)
Dragonite: 2.92% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Fighting: 2.92% (W: 30.00%)
Corviknight: 2.63% (W: 66.67%)
Ursaluna: 2.63% (W: 22.22%)
Clefable: 2.55% (W: 75.00%)
Gholdengo: 2.55% (W: 75.00%)
Galvantula: 2.34% (W: 50.00%)
Baxcalibur: 2.05% (W: 71.43%)
Raging Bolt: 2.05% (W: 42.86%)
Palkia: 2.05% (W: 14.29%)
Annihilape: 1.75% (W: 66.67%)
Tyranitar: 1.75% (W: 66.67%)
Reshiram: 1.75% (W: 33.33%)
Volcarona: 1.46% (W: 80.00%)
Arceus-Rock: 1.46% (W: 60.00%)
Dugtrio: 1.46% (W: 60.00%)
Lugia: 1.46% (W: 20.00%)
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 1.17% (W: 25.00%)
Ogerpon: 1.17% (W: 100.00%)
Iron Moth: 1.17% (W: 50.00%)
Iron Valiant: 1.17% (W: 50.00%)
Pincurchin: 1.17% (W: 50.00%)
Toedscruel: 1.17% (W: 75.00%)
Torkoal: 0.88% (W: 25.00%)
Walking Wake: 0.88% (W: 25.00%)
Mamoswine: 0.88% (W: 33.00%)
Excadrill: 1.17% (W: 25.00%)
Moltres: 0.88% (W: 100.00%)
Blissey: 0.88% (W: 33.33%)
Lilligant-Hisui: 0.88% (W: 33.00%)
Muk-Alola: 0.88% (W: 66.67%)
Rampardos: 0.88% (W: 0.00%)
Garchomp: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Indeedee: 0.58% (W: 0.00%)
Amoonguss: 0.58% (W: 100.00%)
Hoopa-Unbound: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Dialga-Origin: 0.58% (W: 0.00%)
Klefki: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Gouging Fire: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Dondozo: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Dragapult: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Arceus-Psychic: 0.58% (W: 100.00%)
Arceus-Bug: 0.58% (W: 50.00%)
Iron Boulder: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Iron Crown: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Darkrai: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Moltres-Galar: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Ditto: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Lokix: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Skarmory: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Pelipper: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Arceus-Ice: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Rotom-Wash: 0.32% (W: 100.00%)
Ninetales-Alola: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Slowking: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Samurott-Hisui: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Ninetales: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Hatterene: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus-Therian: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Arcanine-Hisui: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Breloom: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Dipplin: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Heatran: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Thundurus: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Enamorus: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Kyurem: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Sableye: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Quagsire: 0.29% (W: 100.00%)
Espeon: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)
Polteageist-Antique: 0.29% (W: 0.00%)

 

[Finchely]

I have two problems with this

1. None of these Pokemon are 'good good', not very splashable, come with their own issues, and you usually have to try to fit them on a team
2. Toxapex is the only real check here and its a passive blob. Others can threaten damage/set-up or pivot something in but Toxapex just sits there and invites basically any Pokemon on their side.

Mandibuzz and Alomomola take way too much damage, they have to stay fully healthy throughout the game to actually switch into Ch-Yu, and If Chi-Yu Tera Fires, just straight up 2HKOs them. I'm not as confident on Arceus-Dragon but that's mainly because I'm not sure what spread people use. The calc has 252/252 offensive which is 2HKOd by Dark Pulse after rocks most of the time, so it really takes one wrong read for Arc Dragon to not count as a Chi-Yu switch in, especially without Regenrator unlike Toxapex and Alomomola.

Funny feesh

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 153-181 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (+ Flinch chance.)

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 180-212 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 240-283 (48 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 116 HP / 140 SpD Alomomola: 262-309 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 184-217 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 246-290 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 90-107 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 21.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 121-143 (39.9 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO

As for Specs, you can't really account for it, seriously what are you switching into Choice Specs Fire Blast and then not losing a Pokemon? It can probably pick up another kill by coming in (safely but how hard is that really.) on Magearna, NDW, Landorus-T, Giratina, and Arceus-Dark. Chi-Yu is definitely dumber than something like Chien-Pao.

I agree that pex sucks, but I also have to say that if you're not building in a way that has answers to Chi-Yu then you're not doing something right. As for Arc Dragon, run max hp, enough speed for lando and the rest in attack adamant. Also I was tlaking about 252 hp 140 spdef mola that way it's something like guaranteed 3hko from fire blast even after rocks.

The last thing I have to say is that just don't give it free opportunities to do stuff. Get the turns right and get rocks up, keep up pressure, and now you're having a significantly easier time. On top of being rocks weak, Chi-Yu is also incredibly frail and can only switch in on something like Psystrike but even that's very risky cause you could get knocked off or focus blasted. So like, don't give it the opportunity to come in.

 

[ValiantValerie]

I agree that pex sucks, but I also have to say that if you're not building in a way that has answers to Chi-Yu then you're not doing something right. As for Arc Dragon, run max hp, enough speed for lando and the rest in attack adamant. Also I was tlaking about 252 hp 140 spdef mola that way it's something like guaranteed 3hko from fire blast even after rocks.

The last thing I have to say is that just don't give it free opportunities to do stuff. Get the turns right and get rocks up, keep up pressure, and now you're having a significantly easier time. On top of being rocks weak, Chi-Yu is also incredibly frail and can only switch in on something like Psystrike but even that's very risky cause you could get knocked off or focus blasted. So like, don't give it the opportunity to come in.

With max hp, Arc Dragon sounds like a nice check then, but Idt I like the idea of putting Toxapex or the 5th? best Arceus form on every team. In samples, only 2/6 teams there fit one of the 4 Pokemon, both being Toxapex ( believe I heard they're in need of an update but not sure where else I can look.). That Alomomola sounds neat, already been using 64 Hp / 192 SpD because the HP is so massive. Chi-Yu feels like it restricted teambuilding and can be stressful.

I agree with this, Chi-Yu's poor defenses and hazard weakness are really bad, and removal isn't treating it well either. This is what keeps Chi=Yu manageable for me, I do still think it deserves a spot on the survey more than half of the Pokemon there though.

 

[Poosh_i]

Ubers UU Ghosting Tournament - Round 1 Usage Stats

The Stats

Pokemon Usage % Win %
72.73% 50.00%
45.45% 50.00%
45.45% 50.00%
31.82% 28.57%
31.82% 42.86%
27.27% 50.00%
22.73% 80.00%
22.73% 80.00%
22.73% 40.00%
18.18% 100.00%
18.18% 50.00%
18.18% 50.00%
18.18% 75.00%
13.64% 33.33%
13.64% 33.33%
13.64% 33.33%
13.64% 33.33%
13.64% 33.33%
9.09% 0.00%
9.09% 50.00%
9.09% 50.00%
9.09% 50.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 0.00%
4.55% 100.00%
4.55% 100.00%

 

[Go make a sandwitch]

When it comes to Grassy Terrain, the main core in and feels a little bland due to a lack of innovation imo, maybe due to the simple dynamic these 2 mons have in enabler and exploiter, respectively. Maybe you could argue that one shouldn't fix what isn't broken, but it still makes the playstyle feel dull. So I had some ideas to put to match, and have had some success with.

GTerrain Core

Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- High Horsepower
- Knock Off / Wood Hammer

So, Rillaboom, the entire reason this archetype is viable in the first place. While the standard CB set has max speed, I found you don't need all that much speed, so I went with the approach to tackle a bulkier spread. 156 Defense EVs ensure you live a Play Rough from CB!, 56 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed standard sets, and the rest goes into general bulk. Grassy Glide is the only grass STAB Rillaboom needs imo, so you can focus the rest of the moveslots on whatever coverage you need. Even so, Wood Hammer as a STAB nuke is never a bad idea. U-turn gives momentum, High Horsepower is an answer for the Steels and Poisons, 2HKOing PhysDef and PhysDef while also jumpscaring without Dauntless Shield and . While those are present on the standard CB set, I opt for Knock Off over Wood Hammer for general utility and jumpscaring , and the like.

Sneasler @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Throat Chop
- Close Combat / Tera Blast

When comparing Sneasler to other Unburden users, Sneasler is tied with for being the fastest Unburden user in the game, but often there's no reason to use so much speed on it, since with Unburden active you already outspeed most relevant stuff even without speed investment, and terrain sweeper Sneasler only really comes in after Rillaboom sets up terrain, be it through U-turn, hard switching or straight up fainting. As a result, I decided on running a bulky Unburden sweeper, though I run 16 EVs to outspeed Scarf!Sneasler. Due to the increased HP, Sneasler gets more mileage from the Grassy Seed As for the choice of Tera, I elected for Fire type because one of the biggest ways to stop Sneasler is to burn it, and that basically stops it in its tracks, so by using Tera Fire, it can ignore burn while maintaining an ability to sweep. As for move choices, SD is the reason it can sweep to begin with, and DC is a very hax-inducing move that doesn't have accuracy issues unlike Gunk Shot. TC is a tool to deal with the Psychic and Ghost types in the tier, and the last option can be a bit of a toss up. CC lets Sneasler have a STAB that deals with non-Magearna steels, but TB Fire lets you not have to worry about Steel types that are neutral to fighting, like Magearna or .

As for teammates, ground-weak mons like and/or are good choices due to EQ being nerfed in Grassy Terrain, but I can see a case for as a Stored Power sweeper with how Grassy Seed can boost its defense and is immune to roar/dtail.

Sample GTerrain Hatt Set

Hatterene @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire

The idea here is that Hatterene has surprisingly good physical bulk and is going to boost up with Calm Mind anyways, so you should go full PhysDef with it. That lets you boost up with Calm Mind, and with grassy seed + calm mind, stored power reaches 80 power after 1 turn of setup. Draining Kiss is for sustain, and Mystical Fire answers steel types.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents on an archetype that I feel is underappreciated.

 

[FishyRoads]

When it comes to Grassy Terrain, the main core in and feels a little bland due to a lack of innovation imo, maybe due to the simple dynamic these 2 mons have in enabler and exploiter, respectively. Maybe you could argue that one shouldn't fix what isn't broken, but it still makes the playstyle feel dull. So I had some ideas to put to match, and have had some success with.

GTerrain Core

Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- High Horsepower
- Knock Off / Wood Hammer

So, Rillaboom, the entire reason this archetype is viable in the first place. While the standard CB set has max speed, I found you don't need all that much speed, so I went with the approach to tackle a bulkier spread. 156 Defense EVs ensure you live a Play Rough from CB!, 56 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed standard sets, and the rest goes into general bulk. Grassy Glide is the only grass STAB Rillaboom needs imo, so you can focus the rest of the moveslots on whatever coverage you need. Even so, Wood Hammer as a STAB nuke is never a bad idea. U-turn gives momentum, High Horsepower is an answer for the Steels and Poisons, 2HKOing PhysDef and PhysDef while also jumpscaring without Dauntless Shield and . While those are present on the standard CB set, I opt for Knock Off over Wood Hammer for general utility and jumpscaring , and the like.

Sneasler @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dire Claw
- Throat Chop
- Close Combat / Tera Blast

When comparing Sneasler to other Unburden users, Sneasler is tied with for being the fastest Unburden user in the game, but often there's no reason to use so much speed on it, since with Unburden active you already outspeed most relevant stuff even without speed investment, and terrain sweeper Sneasler only really comes in after Rillaboom sets up terrain, be it through U-turn, hard switching or straight up fainting. As a result, I decided on running a bulky Unburden sweeper, though I run 16 EVs to outspeed Scarf!Sneasler. Due to the increased HP, Sneasler gets more mileage from the Grassy Seed As for the choice of Tera, I elected for Fire type because one of the biggest ways to stop Sneasler is to burn it, and that basically stops it in its tracks, so by using Tera Fire, it can ignore burn while maintaining an ability to sweep. As for move choices, SD is the reason it can sweep to begin with, and DC is a very hax-inducing move that doesn't have accuracy issues unlike Gunk Shot. TC is a tool to deal with the Psychic and Ghost types in the tier, and the last option can be a bit of a toss up. CC lets Sneasler have a STAB that deals with non-Magearna steels, but TB Fire lets you not have to worry about Steel types that are neutral to fighting, like Magearna or .

As for teammates, ground-weak mons like and/or are good choices due to EQ being nerfed in Grassy Terrain, but I can see a case for as a Stored Power sweeper with how Grassy Seed can boost its defense and is immune to roar/dtail.

Sample GTerrain Hatt Set

Hatterene @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire

The idea here is that Hatterene has surprisingly good physical bulk and is going to boost up with Calm Mind anyways, so you should go full PhysDef with it. That lets you boost up with Calm Mind, and with grassy seed + calm mind, stored power reaches 80 power after 1 turn of setup. Draining Kiss is for sustain, and Mystical Fire answers steel types.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents on an archetype that I feel is underappreciated.

for hattrene, honestly, just use necrozma dawn wings

 

[Imperial]

TERA BLAST​

I hate this stupid move, I've said it once and I will say it again, this is probably the worst designed move on generation 9. I genuinely do not like the impact this move has on this tier, and think it is the main problem (besides this rat ) in this otherwise well balanced tier. I'll quickly cover the main abusers, some side abusers, and then why YOU should vote 10 on the upcoming survey which conveniently releases the second after this post went up.



This one is the iconic one; the one that runs it the most. Zacian has Tera Blast as a mainstay in its set, because otherwise it is stonecold walled by alot of 'mons, including Magearna. It also allows Zacian to mess around with different fourth slots because of how good Fairy/Ground coverage really is, and becoming Burn/T-wave immune is an added bonus to top it all off. Zacian is the least "toxic" user of this move, because it's usually telegraphed, but it nerfs the ability to answer it alot with this 1 simple move, and forces you to gamble on whether certain things actually beat it.



This is probably the most broken one of all of them, and it really asks the question of "is it the mon or is it the move?", and personally, I think it's the move. NDW will win games at the drop of a hat because of Tera Blast Fairy having almost perfect synergy with an actually strong Ghost STAB, Prism Armor, and stats so high they make Raging Bolt jealous. There is the argument that this is NDW exclusive, but other Pokemon abuse this move so well, that I think it’s just incredibly unhealthy.



This 'mon has fallen off imo, and its ONLY good set is with Tera Blast. (don't @ me). I think that Banded is bad because of Magearna's (my queen) omnipresence, therefore I think that Tera Blast is the only way to go with it. Sash with Crash Flinches was tested and it's a way to get around Magearna, but Tera Blast just nukes it while becoming status averse with Fire or Ground, similarly.

The Niche Ones.


It's rare for Deoxys to run Tera Blast, but I've seen it as a surprise move once or twice, and it has a strong surprise factor when it does.

Relies on this move like nothing else, and loses alot of value with this move. As Tony Stark said, "If you're nothing without the suit then you don't deserve the suit."

Tera Blast Fairy/Fighting gives it perfect coverage and allows it to get a real defensive type, but Spectrier is not that good unfortunately.

Why I think YOU should vote ban.
I think that this move creates an imbalance between Offense & Defense that is entirely unnecessary for this tier. It feels especially "cheap" to play against, and in general pushes scary offensive threats, like Pao and NDW, to new heights by covering up their weaknesses. NDW would usually be checked by Darkceus, but that's invalidated by Tera Blast. Mag usually beats Pao, but Tera Blast invalidates it. Zacian is usually checked by Mag too, but Tera Blast invalidates this. Through and through, Tera Blast causes offensive power issues in this tier, and makes it less enjoyable and competitive to play as a whole, and is why I (and hopefully everyone else) will be voting 10/10 for Tera Blast.

(ty BigDaddyAddy for fixing my shitty grammar)

​

 

[Finchely]

I wanna talk more about Tera Blast asw!!

To begin with, I am of the opinion that TB is banworthy on the grounds that it is unhealthy for the meta. It's definitely not broken and anyone who says so is experiencing a skill issue.

Tera Blast is a move that creates unnecessary offensive volatility, and only makes informed decision making harder in a game about making good decisions based on the information you have. Tera inherently provides volatility to a tier, allowing Pokemon to flip otherwise winnable matchups. However, Tera Blast takes it a step further and allows Pokemon to break past typical checks by allowing the user to gain access to a strong, STAB, attack that it wouldn't normally have. This creates situations where when in front of common users of Tera Blast, you have to play defensively because the pokemon in front of you could have the ability to beat you. If you don't do so, you might end up losing an important defensive piece prematurely causing the game to spiral out of your favor. However if they don't click TB, you've now just needlessly allowed chip on another one of your pokemon which could potentially be a fatal play. Scouting for tera blast is much worse than scouting for normal coverage moves because there's that much more uncertainty and risk involved.

There's not much more for me to say asides from what imp already did. Tera Blast introduces needless offensive volatility with multiple pokemon, pushing one of them so far that it's potentially bannable. It's a badly designed move, and it only hurts the tier. Go vote 10, ik i will.

 

[ValiantValerie]

Survey Stuff :3

Enjoyability: 7, tier still feels fun, I do think Tera Blast and Mewtwo are holding it back greatly though.

Balance: 6, I still think there are a few issues to take care of before the metagame feels balanced, or maybe some adaptations in the future to new threats. Tier is also notably rng infested but not much you can do about that.

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: 2
Nothing has really changed, Tera Blast is a dumb move but both SpD and Physdef NDW provide a lot to the tier imo. Half a Mewtwo check and very reliable Landorus/Kyurem-W/PalkiO switch in, or trades especially well with Zacian. Also a Spinblocker with recovery, a rocker that isn't Landorus, Knock Off is an amazing move. I think it's a very healthy presence and has much more reason to stay than toxic ass Tera Blast.

Chien-Pao: 3
Yeah it hits hard, its fast, and...walled by the best mon in the tier. The more I play the more I feel Magearna is near mandatory independent of Chien-Pao. Just provides so much in one slot that you need a good reason not to use it. Tera Blast can feel problematic but that's a Tera Blast issue, atp I think the biggest issue with Chien-Pao is its secondary effects being pretty uncompetitive.

Mewtwo: 10
Notice how I only said half a Mewtwo check? That's because full Mewtwo checks don't exist, there are 0 switch ins. Of course, every Mewtwo set loses to something, and sometimes a Pokemon can take on multiple Mewtwo sets well, but you're never safe vs everything. This is awful for the tier imo, you need to dedicate multiple Pokemon to handle it and still need to try and scout the Mewtwo set. I think you could bring up an argument if this was all it had, since we have quite a few scary breakers in the tier, but no! Mewtwo has plenty of longevity with HDB alone, and Recover pushes it to the extreme, you aren't ever going to outlast this Pokemon with 50/50s or a few pivots. Its speed tier also enhances this, Mewtwo can come in on a lot, and not many Pokemon can revenge kill it. You're looking at: Zacian (Intrepid Sword), Deoxys, Chien-Pao, Choice Scarf Chi-Yu/Urshifu-Dark and only if it's been greatly chipped; Palafin and Scarf Landorus. Notice something? All of those other than Urshifu and Landorus have exceptionally low longevity! Yes, half of these Pokemon also get OHKOd on the switch! Yet I see so many people suggesting Mewtwo is fine? you're pretty much always gambling vs Mewtwo and it feels unhealthy for the tier.

Zacian: 1
Lol, has so many splashable checks, especially when we don't take into account Tera Blast. Zacian also provides so much for the tier, its so splashable and is one of the best Pokemon vs most of the Pokemon on the survey. I think Tera Blast is also the reason people consider putting this Pokemon any higher, another huge flaw to the move.

Arceus-Dragon: 6
This Pokemon feels terrifying to play against, meta currently has no reliable counterplay, and demands you use something like Zacian + Palafin/healthy Scarf Lando T. Since a lot of teams aren't expected to have this, Tera Fire Arc Dragon kind of auto wins the moment its given a free turn. I do think Mewtwo and Tera Blast are a priority, as there's still some counterplay for Arceus-Dragon, even if it requires you to sack a Pokemon, Mewtwo just kind of comes in and bullies you without needing a turn, and Tera Blast continues to be toxic everywhere. I also want to see how the metagame handles Arc Dragon when we give it time, I've seen the Water/Faries being attempted, maybe Heatran or Diancie build up a niche, worth giving the metagame time imo.

Arceus-Dark: 3
This Pokemon feels fine, most teams can afford multiple dark resists and ways to force out Arceus-Dark. Magearna slow pivoting feels pretty safe against it to me. I also like how Arceus-Dark impacts the metagame, neutral CM Recover Pokemon helps make so many special attackers more manageable, and when trading Teras, can beat NDW.

Tera Blast: 10
Next to nothing that hasn't already been said above, I think it's a little understated though. Scouting for Tera Blast isn't risking chip, it's asking one of your Pokemon to lose half their hp if not more. It's worse vs Pokemon with multiple Tera Blast types. Lando T would be great if Zacian was strictly Tera Ground, but if it clicks Tera Fire on the switch you're 2HKOd. Toxapex or Arceus-Poison also don't have things go their way vs Tera Ground Zacian. When scouting for Tera Blast it almost feels like you're asking "What can I sac". This move brings nothing but negativity to the tier, but NDW and Zacian are very healthy presenses and I'd almost say are required for the tier to function best. Special shout out to the most random Tera Blast types too.

Arceus-Flying: 1
Obvious broken, checks to The Set are limited to Arceus-Electric and slow pivoting with Magearna + Chien-Pao, one is an Arceus form which is a big commitment, and the other is already tasked with answering multiple Pokemon. Not to mention both despise CM Earth Power. If only ground resists weren't so dumb we could talk.

Arceus-Steel: 7
Alredy brought it up last time but I can see this Pokemon fitting in the metagame pretty well. It was banned before Ubers UU was even officially recognised, so no Giratina/Landorus-T to better handle Physical sets, Cyclizar was top tier, and the best Steel-resists where limited to Gholdengo, Palkia-O, and Dialga. I think it's definitely something that should be looked into in the future, and has a good chance of making a positive impact on the tier.


I still think Chi-Yu is dumber than half the survey but I'll postpone my complaints, I think Mewtwo and Tera Blast take absolute priority, and if Arc Dragon does end up staying, keeps Chi-Yu more manageable.

 

[vesp]

I think banning Tera Blast is the wrong decision for the tier, and that it catches Pokemon in the crossfire that aren't really that broken. Most users of Tera Blast aren't overpowered whatsoever, and as such there isn't a reason to ban the few abusers over the move. Additionally, none of our past bans have been the result of Tera Blast either, rather being the result of the mons themselves being overpowered.

This one is the iconic one; the one that runs it the most. Zacian has Tera Blast as a mainstay in its set, because otherwise it is stonecold walled by alot of 'mons, including Magearna. It also allows Zacian to mess around with different fourth slots because of how good Fairy/Ground coverage really is, and becoming Burn/T-wave immune is an added bonus to top it all off. Zacian is the least "toxic" user of this move, because it's usually telegraphed, but it nerfs the ability to answer it alot with this 1 simple move, and forces you to gamble on whether certain things actually beat it.

Zacian is overall a healthy metagame presence in my opinion. It helps greatly vs all of the cm atc formes, revenge kills half the tier, and isn't that strong. Not being strong doesn't mean it isn't good of course, it's fucking fantastic, but 120 base attack with 90 bp stab is really not that crazy in this tier, with most other wallbreakers outperforming it. Nobody good genuinely thinks Tera Blast Zacian is broken, most people will agree with the fact that it's pretty strong sure, but it's not overpowered by any means. Now alot of people pro-tb ban will tell you that Zacian can go Tera Blastless already, which is true, but the loss of Tera Blast as an option means that Zacian loses a ton of versatility. You wouldn't be able to mix and match coverage to fix the holes in your team. A Tera blast ban hurts one of the tier's best Pokémon for no reason.

This 'mon has fallen off imo, and its ONLY good set is with Tera Blast. (don't @ me). I think that Banded is bad because of Magearna's (my queen) omnipresence, therefore I think that Tera Blast is the only way to go with it. Sash with Crash Flinches was tested and it's a way to get around Magearna, but Tera Blast just nukes it while becoming status averse with Fire or Ground, similarly.

Chien-Pao really isn't that overpowered, and keeps a ton of pokemon in check thanks to its amazing priority and its excellent dark typing helping it threaten top pokemon like Mewtwo, NDW, and Landorus-T. Pao has pretty bad 4mss on TB sets, as you either have to give up priority, making Pao way easier to rkill, or give up one of its non priority stabs. Though Tera makes revenging pao more difficult for some checks like Zacian. It makes it a ton easier for others like scarf Landorus-T, Palafin, and Deoxys, as they either no longer need Tera, or rather in Deoxys's case, removing Pao's immunity to Psycho Boost. Much like Zacian this Pokémon is not nearly strong enough to get banned itself, and as such banning Tera Blast would be an unwarranted nerf to its toolkit. Even without Tera Blast, +2 Tera fighting sacred sword cleanly OHKOs Mag, so it's not exactly like Tera SD becomes useless. If Tera SD Pao were why TB were broken, tb wouldn't be the issue, it would be Pao

This is probably the most broken one of all of them, and it really asks the question of "is it the mon or is it the move?", and personally, I think it's the move. NDW will win games at the drop of a hat because of Tera Blast Fairy having almost perfect synergy with an actually strong Ghost STAB, Prism Armor, and stats so high they make Raging Bolt jealous. There is the argument that this is NDW exclusive, but other Pokemon abuse this move so well, that I think it’s just incredibly unhealthy.

I think TB ndw is the only user of the move that could be argued to actually be overpowered. Calm Mind sets are fantastic and definitely place a strain on the builder. Truthfully, I think that a Tera Blast ban is the worse path solely because NDW is the only pokemon to ever be banned over Tera Blast, and it's unbanned now.

Tera Blast is a move that creates unnecessary offensive volatility, and only makes informed decision making harder in a game about making good decisions based on the information you have. Tera inherently provides volatility to a tier, allowing Pokemon to flip otherwise winnable matchups. However, Tera Blast takes it a step further and allows Pokemon to break past typical checks by allowing the user to gain access to a strong, STAB, attack that it wouldn't normally have. This creates situations where when in front of common users of Tera Blast, you have to play defensively because the pokemon in front of you could have the ability to beat you. If you don't do so, you might end up losing an important defensive piece prematurely causing the game to spiral out of your favor. However if they don't click TB, you've now just needlessly allowed chip on another one of your pokemon which could potentially be a fatal play. Scouting for tera blast is much worse than scouting for normal coverage moves because there's that much more uncertainty and risk involved

Though this is annoying, none of the users bar NDW are actually overpowered, banning a move because it's annoying to play around is ridiculous. None of the Pokemon that run tb have this level of uncertainty, Zacian will have it, and even if it doesn't +3 cc 2hkos Magearna. Chien-Pao is often going to have it, and as I mentioned before, even if Tera Blast were banned you would still be forced into a mindgame with Sacred Sword instead. NDW's counterplay doesn't change, you switch in Arceus-Dark or Terapagos and click CM, if it Tera blasts you you just tera back and win the 1v1. Deoxys barely ever runs Tera Blast, I don't know if I've ever seen someone other than suzuya run it. All other users are either niche picks like regieleki and spectrier, who don't change much in their counterplay. You switch a speed control mon in on Spectrier and kill it. You show eleki a sturdy special wall and it can only click Volt Switch all game, which is of course still good, but it's not exactly like the mindgame ruins your life.

To ban a move that has made literally only one Pokemon overpowered, with every single Pokemon having access to the move goes against smogon tiering policy. Houndstone was banned from OU over Last Respects because it's the only Pokémon that was broken with Last Respects at the time. This is despite the fact it was the only mon to use it. Banning Tera Blast is not only the wrong move for the tier, its one that we can't take within the framework of smogon tiering regardless.