Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #358

[Lyssa]

Hey everyone! As you may know VR hasn't been the most active as of recently, and since it's a resource of primary importance we're going to be implementing some changes to bring some life back to it. umbry recently lead the first successful update in the past 3 or so months, and following that she's going to take over as host, with myself cohosting. We want to thank Monky25 for his long stint as previous host and wish him the best for the future. We've also had changes to the voting team, introducing new members such as Catcus, Mimilucha, Petros and Punny, taking over for people that have been more busy as of recent and haven't had the time to play or contribute to VR. We hope to deliver updates quicker in the future, and i'll also take the opportunity to announce that we will be having one for shifts in the next few days, and while we don't have an exact ETA yet, if you have any nominations or things you'd like us to vote on please submit them in the next 3-4 days. Lastly, quick reminder that we have a public VR discussion channel in our discord server, where you can engage in live discussion with other contributors/players and have more updates on our future plans and so on.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> B-

Has seen more usage than the C shitmons... toxic can cripple stuff like gastrodon, latios, slowking while muddy water helps vs drill. Static also helps vs lokix, torn, and even others like flip turn latios, cornerstone, etc

-> B-

I was never a fan of it... but with tink back here it feels odd to feel meta can do much more especially when it also is a steel that checks latios quite well, can switch into fez, and checks cornerstone. Find it weird and hard to fit

-> C

You cannot tell me this pokemon has done anything, this mon has seen 0 usage in any tournament and no serious player has ever considered it. Leaf storm + tera blast only gets you so far when even at +2 tera blast isnt strong and with heatran, tink, torn, heatran, clodsire, pex, skeledirge, fez, latios, hydrapple, lokix, zarude, etc in the tier you are kinda out of luck

-> UR

I think its done for... mold breaker tink in the tier and i was going to nom it down anyway, far to weak in this tier especially when it cannot even 2hko dirge with shadow claw and loses badly to tera, skarmory sits on it, tinkaton bashes it and its hella vulnerable

-> UR

I think it should go... in conclusion its a tera hog and a relic of old times when ladder got farmed by it, I have not seen anybody but petros have some resulted with it and i conclude its super weak in comparison to rest of C, not even worth talking about or slotting on HO

-> B- or C

This mon is odd... words to describe it would be something like unusual and how it sees very little usage always but somehow only got one sub rank drop. Ttar, drei, shocks, gard all see some forms of usage and results and i feel its worth bringing this mon down

-> A

Well i am writing this as i go... gut feeling has told me how splashable latios is and how its results show, with soul dew, cm, specs, and scarf sets all putting in work... its not hard to put on a team and hard to stop. Ofc tink exists but even with tink latios has been putting up fine results.. and tink does not exactly want to take luster -> luster with sp. def drops. I like surf or aura sphere on choice sets instead of flip turn to get more results but its smth

-> A

I think it fits fine up here... it checks a lot of mons in the top tier and although skarm and drill annoy it its nothing you cant support around esp with the recent excadrill falloff which benefits it quite a lot. Encore, t wave, rocks, pickpocket are all good stuff

-> B

Deo-s left, i think mew as a lead will rise back up to, I think putting it back where it was is fine... revavroom sure is good still, so are stuff like thundy, jugulis, greninja, cornerstone, manaphy, etc

 

[Haribo]

-> B-

Has seen more usage than the C shitmons... toxic can cripple stuff like gastrodon, latios, slowking while muddy water helps vs drill. Static also helps vs lokix, torn, and even others like flip turn latios, cornerstone, etc

-> B-

I was never a fan of it... but with tink back here it feels odd to feel meta can do much more especially when it also is a steel that checks latios quite well, can switch into fez, and checks cornerstone. Find it weird and hard to fit

-> C

You cannot tell me this pokemon has done anything, this mon has seen 0 usage in any tournament and no serious player has ever considered it. Leaf storm + tera blast only gets you so far when even at +2 tera blast isnt strong and with heatran, tink, torn, heatran, clodsire, pex, skeledirge, fez, latios, hydrapple, lokix, zarude, etc in the tier you are kinda out of luck

-> UR

I think its done for... mold breaker tink in the tier and i was going to nom it down anyway, far to weak in this tier especially when it cannot even 2hko dirge with shadow claw and loses badly to tera, skarmory sits on it, tinkaton bashes it and its hella vulnerable

-> UR

I think it should go... in conclusion its a tera hog and a relic of old times when ladder got farmed by it, I have not seen anybody but petros have some resulted with it and i conclude its super weak in comparison to rest of C, not even worth talking about or slotting on HO

-> B- or C

This mon is odd... words to describe it would be something like unusual and how it sees very little usage always but somehow only got one sub rank drop. Ttar, drei, shocks, gard all see some forms of usage and results and i feel its worth bringing this mon down

-> A

Well i am writing this as i go... gut feeling has told me how splashable latios is and how its results show, with soul dew, cm, specs, and scarf sets all putting in work... its not hard to put on a team and hard to stop. Ofc tink exists but even with tink latios has been putting up fine results.. and tink does not exactly want to take luster -> luster with sp. def drops. I like surf or aura sphere on choice sets instead of flip turn to get more results but its smth

-> A

I think it fits fine up here... it checks a lot of mons in the top tier and although skarm and drill annoy it its nothing you cant support around esp with the recent excadrill falloff which benefits it quite a lot. Encore, t wave, rocks, pickpocket are all good stuff

-> B

Deo-s left, i think mew as a lead will rise back up to, I think putting it back where it was is fine... revavroom sure is good still, so are stuff like thundy, jugulis, greninja, cornerstone, manaphy, etc

-> ️B-
️Big agree.
->Remain B
I think with Scizor gone Meta is still worthy of B.
-> Remain B-
With no C+ rank, I think glare alone justifies this mon in B-
-> UR
Agree. RIP.
-> Remain C
Agree with the argument, though it does fall in line with a lot of other C-mons.
-> ???
Frankly, no clue. I never see this mon.
-> A+
Even with Tink, Lati still outclasses other A-rankers in versatility+impact. A+ is still warranted.
-> A
Tinkaton good. Agreed.
-> B-
Good argument, but B- is more fair I think.

 

[Haribo]

My own noms:

A -> A-
Gets checked by every game.

A- -> A
Checks every game.

B+ -> A-
Fast and versatile. One of those mons with loads of teambuilding potential.

B- -> B+
Too devastating of a threat compared to other B/B- mons.

C -> B+
If is B+, then the best enabler deserves to be, too. B- at least.

& C -> B-
Rain as an archetype has too many wicked-good team matchups to be relegated to C-rank. is the reason, and enables it.

B -> C
Long overstayed its welcome in the higher rankings. Feels about as good as , and is fine in C (And similar in usage, too!).

C -> UR
What does this even do? Why is this here? It's time to put down the dead dog.

C -> UR
This one is close, but there are just too few places where you'd want to use the fella over something better. I'm sure there are some niche wish-passing, role-compression sets that you can force, but I don't think those justify C-rank. It just loses to 2/3 of the tier (AKA 4 mons on every team).

C -> UR
Too many problems to count. Analysis of its bad matchups would be longer than this post.

 

[Avira]

My own noms:

A -> A-
Gets checked by every game.

A- -> A
Checks every game.

B+ -> A-
Fast and versatile. One of those mons with loads of teambuilding potential.

B- -> B+
Too devastating of a threat compared to other B/B- mons.

C -> B+
If is B+, then the best enabler deserves to be, too. B- at least.

& C -> B-
Rain as an archetype has too many wicked-good team matchups to be relegated to C-rank. is the reason, and enables it.

B -> C
Long overstayed its welcome in the higher rankings. Feels about as good as , and is fine in C (And similar in usage, too!).

C -> UR
What does this even do? Why is this here? It's time to put down the dead dog.

C -> UR
This one is close, but there are just too few places where you'd want to use the fella over something better. I'm sure there are some niche wish-passing, role-compression sets that you can force, but I don't think those justify C-rank. It just loses to 2/3 of the tier (AKA 4 mons on every team).

C -> UR
Too many problems to count. Analysis of its bad matchups would be longer than this post.

Not going to lie, this post seems misinformed, and I don't even play this tier much.

Skarmory isn't exactly the face of UU, and Excadrill still has clear strengths as a spinner, cleaner, and wallbreaker all in one slot, potentially sweeping with the standard Mold Breaker set and the Sand Rush set, and being a decent SR setter for some teams. Excadrill has more set diversity than Skarmory does and being able to remove hazards in Gen 9 is an important niche. You have not shown at all how the meta has changed to make Skarmory better and Excadrill worse.

Base Ogerpon's usage continuing to decline over the years means there's one fewer common option to revenge kill Greninja, but the rise of Fezandipiti means there's a new defensive check with reliable recovery that owns it. You have not meaningfully shown how the meta has changed to warrant a rise for Greninja although I guess there's Scizor leaving, who could pick off Greninja with Bullet Punch..

Scizor rising to OU is admittedly a big change since its strong priority could pick off Hawlucha, but again, you make no comment on how the meta has changed to justify Hawlucha rising, especially 2 subranks rather than just 1.

Hawlucha is used outside of Psyspam, so Indeedee absolutely shouldn't be B+ since Hawlucha isn't, especially since Psyspam lost an abuser in Deoxys-Speed.

Again, you've made no comment on how the meta is now better for rain.

Zapdos-Galar is better than Crawdaunt, so no, it shouldn't be in the same rank as Crawdaunt.

No comment on the rest since I don't play this tier much, but your post is seriously lacking, and maybe you should lurk more before posting.

 

[ThatOneApple]

Figured Id get some topics out there before we do the update, just to see what people have to think about them. Starting with:

users (Most notably )
With Deoxys-Speed exiting the tier, our scarfers now have the benefit of not being outsped by one of the most prominent offensive threats in the meta, and thus can flex their own offensive prowess. Of course, some scarfers are not as well off as others and struggled with more than just Deoxys, but as a whole I think Scarfers need some discussion. Galarian Zapdos in particular has really caught my attention as the tier doesnt really have great switch-ins to it, while it is also immune to spikes and not weak to rocks. The second point also applies to Hydreigon who has also felt quite nice, however Tinkaton is a bit annoying for it.


Conk has seemed to be in a slump as of recent, usage is pretty down and it doesnt really seem to perform nearly as well as it used to. Could be that players have adapted to its shenanigans so bulk up cant steal games, but Flame Orb still seems pretty rough to answer even if its weird to position.


I never really see much discussion about this thing at all, it seems like itd be an alright lead for HO given that booster lets it outrun Taunt Torn, and its honestly felt ok on some offenses from my own experience. However, it is pretty held back by the prominence of mons like Latios, and needing to slot power gem for Thundurus-T kinda sucks. Overall, I wanna know what others have to say about this, as it does seem like itd be nice for those sun teams that have been popping up.

Speaking of which....


Rain and Sun have both been seeing a pretty good amount of usage to a notable amount of success as of recent, although it does fluctuate. Regardless, they do seem like theyd deserve some separation from the C ranks. But for sun in particular, Id like to see what sun abusers people think are most representative of the style.

Editing after realizing I forgot something


Ghosts in general are kinda scary to switch into, but hzoro feels like a step above in some regards with illusion shenanigans. Specs is strong with Sball Focus and Tera Blast covering most things, while boots is pretty good at playing the long game and can slot plot to be more threatening or support moves like wisp or taunt if it wants. It’s speed tier puts it above that of all the darks in the tier, which in terms of ghosts is a trait only shared by gengar, and with solid paralysis support it can break through the Torns that don’t run AV super often anymore. Of course it does have the issue with needing to be positioned and specs sets really would like to either be lead and/or have hazard support, but these can also play into the illusion mind game.

 

[Haribo]

Not going to lie, this post seems misinformed, and I don't even play this tier much.

Skarmory isn't exactly the face of UU, and Excadrill still has clear strengths as a spinner, cleaner, and wallbreaker all in one slot, potentially sweeping with the standard Mold Breaker set and the Sand Rush set, and being a decent SR setter for some teams. Excadrill has more set diversity than Skarmory does and being able to remove hazards in Gen 9 is an important niche. You have not shown at all how the meta has changed to make Skarmory better and Excadrill worse.

Base Ogerpon's usage continuing to decline over the years means there's one fewer common option to revenge kill Greninja, but the rise of Fezandipiti means there's a new defensive check with reliable recovery that owns it. You have not meaningfully shown how the meta has changed to warrant a rise for Greninja although I guess there's Scizor leaving, who could pick off Greninja with Bullet Punch..

Scizor rising to OU is admittedly a big change since its strong priority could pick off Hawlucha, but again, you make no comment on how the meta has changed to justify Hawlucha rising, especially 2 subranks rather than just 1.

Hawlucha is used outside of Psyspam, so Indeedee absolutely shouldn't be B+ since Hawlucha isn't, especially since Psyspam lost an abuser in Deoxys-Speed.

Again, you've made no comment on how the meta is now better for rain.

Zapdos-Galar is better than Crawdaunt, so no, it shouldn't be in the same rank as Crawdaunt.

No comment on the rest since I don't play this tier much, but your post is seriously lacking, and maybe you should lurk more before posting.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I was definitely was a bit pithy in the initial post and have done some thinking since.

I do stand by -> A-, as it is consistently checked despite its set variety. While Skarm is a common example, it remaining in A- is fine. I was feeling a bit cheeky when I started the post and think I liked the flip-flop optically lol.

On , remaining B+ is fine. I was overestimating the value of certain lead & lure sets that were fun but didn't hold up under further scrutiny.

On , I think it drasically outclasses its neighbors in the B- tier, even before considering the tier shifts. Though perhaps straight to B+ is hasty.

On , it's a better terrain setter than Thwackey. Ok, maybe not equvalent in tier to Hawlucha, but deserves B-.

As far as meta shifts related to rain, the lack of Scizor BP and Deoxys-S's speed (relative to Barra outside of rain) are absolutely massive for the archtype.

I retract my argument; I wasn't considering scarf sets not having to worry about Deo.

 

[umbry]

Hi everyone, we're back with the first update for post-shifts meta, our beloved UU icon tinkaton is back and it has already caused some minor shakeups. For the current update all the ranks between S/B- were voted on by default seeing as we just had a pretty big update regarding our C ranks, in addition we also included noms from the thread and some internal noms, here are the results:

New Additions
to A-
to C

Rises
A -> A+
B -> B+
C -> B-

Drops
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C

Thread will be updated shortly. As always you're welcome to discuss the update here or in our VR channel in the UU discord (link in the OP) as well as making follow up noms if you think there's something we missed, those will be considered for our next update.

 

[658Greninja]

what happened to my boy cobalion?

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I feel dropping coba 2 shifts in a row in a short time spam is underselling what it does... sure it's not as good but it feels esp after tink there are trends that would benefit it and from using it on ladder it isnt b rank bad where stuff like enam t, pex and bolt lie

Also an odd slowking rise... a lot of mons kinda dumpster on it and it feels quite weird that it rose considering HO farms it, bulky teams usually have gastro those can farm it, and even drill is less common while lokix, knock off + hazards, and generally more thundy-t give it a lot of problems, tink encoring it into recovery isnt fun either

 

[ThatOneApple]

what happened to my boy cobalion?

Its whole thing back when it was in its prime was being something that could pretty reliably keep rocks up to punish AV torn. However, AV torn has kinda fallen to the wayside in favor of boots sets that offer a lot more flexibility in game. So, over time Coba's usage kinda started falling. It also offers more offensive teams a workaround against lokix, but as time went on people started using options that either punish lokix better (Flame Body Heatran/Pickpocket Tinkaton) or just dont load up on kix weak mons. It still had the benefit of being a good rocks setter for a time, but when Donphan started rising up that role became a lot more shaky, not to mention its almost complete deadweight into the Thundurus you see on HO. Overall, what happened to coba was a combination of its roles not being that great for the meta anymore alongside the meta evolving to have mons it really does not like dealing with.

 

[Phillip Blevin]

what does gligar even do? i guess there is no real offensive water or ice moms in the tier but its fucking gligar

 

[ThatOneApple]

what does gligar even do? i guess there is no real offensive water or ice moms in the tier but its fucking gligar

Weirdly decent volt blocker (outside of washer) while also setting spikes and being annoying with Toxic and pivoting with U turn. It’s a bit specific given how weak it is and it’s longevity leaving a bit to be desired, but it gives offense teams a decent spiking pivot that helps check Thundurus and various physical threats with its solid bulk with eviolite. Its spikes are also kinda annoying to remove as it threatens drill with eq and phan/mandi don’t want to eat toxic, so that’s a nice added bonus.

 

[ThatOneApple]

The VR team is looking to update the viability rankings within the coming days, so feel free to submit any opinions here! This update is looking to reflect how the meta has evolved in the past 2 months through UUCL in particular, but any changes you feel are warranted are welcome!

 

[Catcus]

I surprisingly haven't post noms since getting on the council, so I figured I'd do some now! Mainly gonna do some ones I haven't seen as much talk about


B -> B+

Bellibolt seems to have finally solidly established itself as a consistent meta mon imo. Just being as good as it is vs pivot torn opens up a ton of options, and being a general fat mon for certain threats with pivoting is also just nice to have. It's got a ton of good partners that can both patch-up it's shortcomings and take advantage of a crippled torn.


C -> B-/B

Screens are kinda insane right now and grimm is a fantastic setter. It's always had it's advantages like prankster and it's natural advantage vs latios, and now it just has so many great partners. Thundy, slither wing, manaphy, rev, etc all just pose such a threat under screens.


B -> B-/C

I didn't really process until recently just how much I don't like this mon. It goes beyond passive to the point that you literally can't touch some mons, including just some really devastating mons like latios who are super scary to give free turns to. You have to choose between poison jab which leaves you left to hope for poison procs vs dirge, or toxic which taunt mons decimate. Gastro does most of it's jobs anyways at this point so I just really don't find myself liking this mon much.


B- -> C

This was honestly a bit of a prediction rise that didn't really pan out. Ever after Deo left, mew just doesn't see a lot of usage. It's just pretty flawed as a lead. Struggles vs various counterleads and is just awkward. Other options like lead donphan and screens HO tend to just do better.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

had some drafts out

-> B+

Tink kinda feels not very good... pickpocket is def nice to cripple boots torn and to hit lokix where it hurts but still, while u prob shouldnt use rocks in a meta where donphan and drill are good when u can be using encore + t wave instead, it def does not feel as good compared to stuff in the high tiers

-> A

Had the stuff to back it up, u can def notice it doing well and u turn spam is irritating to switch into, I have also seen some helmet to punish stuff like u turn from opposing fez, lokix, and just be annoying asf. Tera Elec is also good to shit on thundy and in general u turn + toxic chain is super hard to deal with as you just spam u-turn and steels generally are something you prepare for and have plenty of answers and racking up rocks dmg and forcing exca in is helpful for many pokemon. Just very good and is able to deal with a lot of stuff and has good flexability in its moves

-> A

Feel it gets punched around a lot by taunt torn than it was when it was AV, as well as spikes gastrodon being very annoying for it as it cannot do much outside of chilly out and let spikes get up and if it gets knocked its shit

-> UR

Mon needs tera, and without it you are stuck on a mon with meh typing, cannot deal with dirge super well or struggles to a combination of tink, cobalion, skarmory, fezandipiti, zarude, lokix, heatran, latios, and scarfers like zapdos-g. Glare is nice esp vs torn but if torn is that good then its not getting glare'ed and they will use the many mons who can pressure serperior, even pokemon like slowking can take a hit and paralyze it or use chilly and cut off its synthesis.

-> B

Its been seeing some nice usage as a scarfer on sun and on more offensive teams as a cleaner, it can really be irritating to switch into with the power of head smash and flare blitz especially late game, a lot of mons generally dont wanna lose large amounts of health for that. I feel its pretty good and more consistent than the mons who feel they have not seen use in years like rhyperior, necrozma, sinistcha, gard.

-> B-

Think sun is better than C, its results in some tours also speak for it and its been brought more than what should be for a C rank mon

-> B-

Think its not very good, as a poison i feel fez is just better and taunt shuts it down badly while not doing much in return... sure toxic + eq is nice to catch steels but also a lot of mons can give it shit like balloon revavroom, skarmory, donphan, conkeldurr, zarude, latios, taunt torn t, knock off + hazards are a pain. Also i feel its just to passive and doesnt fit on many teams

-> B

thought about this and felt its worth the drop, the spot on HO is usually not for it, esp when its a tera hog and if its forced out its very much so not a threat. Sure its nice but also its typing into torn, bb skarm, latios, dirge, etc. It can pop off but i think it isnt that good

-> A+

Latios has always been doing well and on most styles it always pops off... with stuff like bulky cm, 3 attacks, specs, scarf, and other shenanigans like WP on screens it can do a lot of stuff and fits quite well, it is also amazingly at forcing progress. i feel its consistent and good enough on a lot of teams to warrant rise

-> B+

Sand is better, i think ttar should rise esp with the fact it does quite well at annoying taunt torn, cb tar is also interesting and it becomes super annoying. I think CB is underated and can work outside of deticated sand

-> A
-> ??? (Prob drop)

Has like 0 usage, its just a "trust this works" mon rn which maybe we will be proven wrong once someone brings it

 

[correcthorse666]

-> B-/C

I like to take a moment to join everybody else in asking for this mon to be dropped. It's generally outclassed as a SpDef blob by stuff like Gastrodon and Fezandipiti. Fez is much better for offense builds because it's much less passive, has options to threaten most of its answers, and isn't a momentum sink due to Toxic Chain + U-turn. For fatter builds, Gastrodon is better because it is again less passive, so it's less vulnerable to taunt and can threaten air balloon steels, while also having a typing that's much better against a fair number of key threats like Harc, Skeledirge, Revaroom, and Excadrill.

 

[mintwinter]

-> B/B+
Garde can trace regen, which lets it heal just by switching in vs apple/slowking/torn. Has support moves like trick, twave, wisp, which can help to weaken critical targets. STABs+coverage is not fun to switch into barring like spdef slowking, but you could even drop coverage in favour of a status move if you either want a more support-leaning mon or are capable of pressuring tran/drill/tink well. Lastly, its typing allows it to switch into latios stabs well, which allows it to supplement drill/torn on a lot of offense/bo teams which are prone to getting pressured by latios.

-> A-
Great mon imo, has a myriad of offensive sets to threaten just about anything, like lots of cm variations like sub to punish slowking and vacuum wave for rk'ing/anti offense, icy wind for apple/latios. tera blast can also be used to hit slowking/pex. Specs lets you put immediate pressure on unprepared teams, but imo it's not as good as the other sets. I've seen and used scarf for role compression but it's only rlly for dire situations imo. It has a nice defensive typing to check tran/gren too.

above noms i agree with:
-> B+
I rlly like tar, think offensive sets are underrated rn as has been mentioned

-> B-/C
agree w/ it being outclassed by fez/gastro

-> A
great glue vs stuff like thundy/gren which are hard to switch into, nice progress maker too

-> A
best steel wall in the tier

 

[umbry]

Hello, the VR council held a vote over the weekend like it was previously announced. For the following update every C rank was voted on by default as well as nominations from the thread and some internal ones. Here are there the results:

Rises
A -> A+
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> B
C -> B-
Sun ( ) C -> B-

Drops
A+ -> A
A+ -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> C
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C
B- -> C
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

Feel free to discuss the changes in this thread or our vr channel in uu discord, or post any follow up noms if you have any, we'll keep those in mind for our next update. Also since it was never announced ASKOV decided to step down from VR council, thank you for your long streak of contributions! Thread will be updated shortly.

 

[MC Squared]

Why did Lokix drop just now after having a long streak of being A+?

 

[OceanicGamer]

A+ -> A

D: this is so sad

 

[gulch]

Why did Lokix drop just now after having a long streak of being A+?

HO has been finding more and more ways to not just lose to fimp, whether that be screens, revavroom, rhyperior, or whatever else. balance and BO also have more tools than ever to keep it down; skarm, fez, tink, dirge, belli, gapdos... take your pick, really. you can get around it a little with non-boots sets, but using a damage boosting item comes with a ton of other inherent risks that often make it not worth the struggle