SV UU Metagame Discussion - Teal Mask Edition

[Just A Shroom God]

Just joined UU and immediately got up to my usual antics of trying to make random shitmons work:
@
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Rock
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Tera Blast
- Victory Dance

With TB rock this thing has exactly 0 counters lol. It beats its most common counters in Skeledirge and Moltres with no prior chip and provides a solid STAB option that will heavily dent even neutral targets like Amoonguss (Pdef is 2HKO'd unboosted), Geezing (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks), Sinistcha (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks w/ lefties), and Band Okidogi (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks). And if it gets a VD off, it becomes the fastest thing in the tier barring some scarfers and Tera'd Ogerpon.

Unfortunately your new rock typing leaves (geddit?) you weak to all forms of priority, and using Life Orb essentially negates the VD defense boost. it also means that you actually lose to those faster threats (Scarf meow, BE Treads). Hustle is also the most fun ability in the game for obvious reasons. Finally, sometimes chip damage taken through attempting to setup will sometimes cut your sweep short through LO recoil.

So, what do you think? Did I burn the kitchen down?

 

[carbonlifeform]

Man, there are some physical offensive threats that are going nuts right now with 'Mola gone and Empoleon taking its place as the primary bulky water pivot. Top of the list, to me, are Arcanine-H and Mamoswine.

'Mola was the closest thing we had to a universally safe switch-in to Band Arcanine. It still takes a bundle from Banded Head Smash, but Regenerator helped it come in multiple times. Slowbro can technically do the same thing, but 'Mola offered superior bulk AND it wanted to run Protect, anyway, giving it a massive advantage in the case of a direct pivot in. The potential of Wish Passing out of a choice-locked Flare Blitz added an extra layer of risk for the Arcanine-H player. Wish + Protect is also just way better when you need to stall out the endgame.

Similarly, losing 'Mola takes away one more strong switch-in to Trailblaze Mamo, since even with Tera Grass and EBelt/LO, Mamo struggled to make progress against 'Mola without heavy hazard support. Again, Slowbro can kinda do the same thing, but Mamo doesn't even need Tera to harass it with knock-off. Honestly, Mamo gets to use its fourth move slot to pick what it beats. Worried bout Moltres (or to a lesser extent Pelipper)? Stone Edge/Rock Blast. Levitate Gweezing? Heavy Slam. Cress is the only thing that basically switches in without fear, but, man, eff that thing.

Gapdos and Quaquaval (and rain in general) feel like the other biggest winners of removing a general purpose physically bulky water from the tier, but they had other counterplay running around before. There's just less now.

Anybody have better thoughts for defensive counterplay to these beasts?

 

[Twilight]

Man, there are some physical offensive threats that are going nuts right now with 'Mola gone and Empoleon taking its place as the primary bulky water pivot. Top of the list, to me, are Arcanine-H and Mamoswine.

'Mola was the closest thing we had to a universally safe switch-in to Band Arcanine. It still takes a bundle from Banded Head Smash, but Regenerator helped it come in multiple times. Slowbro can technically do the same thing, but 'Mola offered superior bulk AND it wanted to run Protect, anyway, giving it a massive advantage in the case of a direct pivot in. The potential of Wish Passing out of a choice-locked Flare Blitz added an extra layer of risk for the Arcanine-H player. Wish + Protect is also just way better when you need to stall out the endgame.

Similarly, losing 'Mola takes away one more strong switch-in to Trailblaze Mamo, since even with Tera Grass and EBelt/LO, Mamo struggled to make progress against 'Mola without heavy hazard support. Again, Slowbro can kinda do the same thing, but Mamo doesn't even need Tera to harass it with knock-off. Honestly, Mamo gets to use its fourth move slot to pick what it beats. Worried bout Moltres (or to a lesser extent Pelipper)? Stone Edge/Rock Blast. Levitate Gweezing? Heavy Slam. Cress is the only thing that basically switches in without fear, but, man, eff that thing.

Gapdos and Quaquaval (and rain in general) feel like the other biggest winners of removing a general purpose physically bulky water from the tier, but they had other counterplay running around before. There's just less now.

Anybody have better thoughts for defensive counterplay to these beasts?

I don't think Empoleon even comes close to being the new bulky water pivot so if you are just attempting to replace that slot with it then it makes sense you are going to open up holes vs other stuff. Either way, some of the best answers to offensive Harcanine are Quagsire, bulky Quaq, Hippo, and Gastrodon. You need to invest into some Def on Gastro but if you're struggling with it so much just do so. Otherwise, you just need to offensively position around it, keep rocks up, or pop a tera defensively.

Mamoswine has always had few safe switch-ins so looking for a hard pivot is pretty pointless imo. You listed a bunch of Pokemon that are good into it defensively and can scout one or two hits. Mamoswine is fairly slow and is also weak to basically every form of priority, so put pressure on the Mamoswine user offensively. Life Orb variants will also just wear themselves down in combination with any trades and hazards.

 

[carbonlifeform]

I don't think Empoleon even comes close to being the new bulky water pivot so if you are just attempting to replace that slot with it then it makes sense you are going to open up holes vs other stuff. Either way, some of the best answers to offensive Harcanine are Quagsire, bulky Quaq, Hippo, and Gastrodon. You need to invest into some Def on Gastro but if you're struggling with it so much just do so. Otherwise, you just need to offensively position around it, keep rocks up, or pop a tera defensively.

Not gonna lie, I legit forgot Quagsire exists. That said, in my limited playing, I've also been a fan of Tera Normal Harcanine with Double Edge (so Tera Normal isn't *just* for ESpeed), in which case:

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Arcanine-Hisui Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Obviously, relying on Band leaves you open after they've eaten your hit and scouted you, but it's still a lot of pressure on the opponent to keep their switch-in healthy -- and with Heatran gone, you don't even need to worry about Flash Fire, so the only thing you need to worry about giving absoltuely free entry are ghosts.

Personally, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of defensive Iron Hands in this MU -- that same set is actually great into Mamo, too, if you run Tera Fighting instead of Steel (Fighting is probably better overall for teams without good EQ switch-ins) -- but there's an opportunity cost there in not using SD Hands. Not as good specifically into Harcanine as Hippowdon, but provides a lot of utility overall.

 

[cyrtie]

Where would you guys say that Okidogi would place in the viability rankings?

 

[GULLY]

Man, there are some physical offensive threats that are going nuts right now with 'Mola gone and Empoleon taking its place as the primary bulky water pivot. Top of the list, to me, are Arcanine-H and Mamoswine.

'Mola was the closest thing we had to a universally safe switch-in to Band Arcanine. It still takes a bundle from Banded Head Smash, but Regenerator helped it come in multiple times. Slowbro can technically do the same thing, but 'Mola offered superior bulk AND it wanted to run Protect, anyway, giving it a massive advantage in the case of a direct pivot in. The potential of Wish Passing out of a choice-locked Flare Blitz added an extra layer of risk for the Arcanine-H player. Wish + Protect is also just way better when you need to stall out the endgame.

Similarly, losing 'Mola takes away one more strong switch-in to Trailblaze Mamo, since even with Tera Grass and EBelt/LO, Mamo struggled to make progress against 'Mola without heavy hazard support. Again, Slowbro can kinda do the same thing, but Mamo doesn't even need Tera to harass it with knock-off. Honestly, Mamo gets to use its fourth move slot to pick what it beats. Worried bout Moltres (or to a lesser extent Pelipper)? Stone Edge/Rock Blast. Levitate Gweezing? Heavy Slam. Cress is the only thing that basically switches in without fear, but, man, eff that thing.

Gapdos and Quaquaval (and rain in general) feel like the other biggest winners of removing a general purpose physically bulky water from the tier, but they had other counterplay running around before. There's just less now.

Anybody have better thoughts for defensive counterplay to these beasts?

I just posted something about an Alo core last week but I’m actually glad it went OU. It became too splashable where it switched in to everything nearly. The mirror coat set even punished special attackers that couldn’t ohko in 1v1 matchups.

The mons you mentioned I think are perfectly fine. We’ve had mons with middling speed that are hard to switch into before (Nidoking is the most obvious). 2 of the top mons in the tier Rotom and Treads can beat Arc and Mamo 1on1 depending on set and situation. It’s not an issue to me at all

Where would you guys say that Okidogi would place in the viability rankings?

Okidogi is A Rank. It has very good bulk and great attack. It can run a band scarf and bulk up set very well. It’s stabs along with knock are hard to switch into as well.

 

[cosmogii]

now that alo is gone, i can post my favorite basculegion set!!!! this is so cool and awesome, thank the tiering system.

Agility Basculegion-F

Basculegion-F @ Leftovers/Weakness Policy/Life Orb

Ability: Adaptability

Tera Type: Water

EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Agility

- Ice Beam

- Shadow Ball

- Surf

so why run this set?

for starters, at +2 speed, basculegion reaches a speed stat of 560! that's faster than pretty much everything in the tier, including booster sandy shocks, which only reaches a paltry 492 in comparison.

to add on, bascu is really really tanky, so its never going to be ohko'd unless its like, eating flower trick to the face. its either immune or resistant to most forms of priority, unlike other sweepers of a similar idea.

resisting weaviles ice shard and being immune to arcanine-h's espeed is already great, though the weakness to meowscarada still very much exists. if the meow runs scarf, you just die. but if its banded sucker punch? well you have to tera, but..

How much does it do?

252 Atk Choice Band Meowscarada Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Basculegion-F: 217-256 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

you survive guaranteed, and can threaten it back with an ice beam, doing around 74-88% without rocks and around 93 with rocks.

the mon definitely has a lot of weaknesses, due to its immediate lack of power that comes from losing specs, but it's put in some solid work for me in the mid-late game of some battles! (i have no idea if this is a used/common set or not btw, i'm new to the meta and dont wanna make it seem like i'm passing off someone else's set as my own )

 

[carbonlifeform]

I just posted something about an Alo core last week but I’m actually glad it went OU. It became too splashable where it switched in to everything nearly. The mirror coat set even punished special attackers that couldn’t ohko in 1v1 matchups.

The mons you mentioned I think are perfectly fine. We’ve had mons with middling speed that are hard to switch into before (Nidoking is the most obvious). 2 of the top mons in the tier Rotom and Treads can beat Arc and Mamo 1on1 depending on set and situation. It’s not an issue to me at all

To be fair, I literally joked about how braindead 'Mola was the day of tier shifts:

'Mola! Nooooooo! Now I'm gonna have to learn how to build an actual defensive core in this tier instead of just dropping Helmet 'Mola onto every team that isn't working.

That doesn't change the fact that losing the most splashable check to physical attackers (no matter how silly it was) naturally makes them better. To be clear, I'm not saying any of these threats are broken or can't be played around, just that'Mola offered a good way to handle multiple threats in one slot, and its best replacements are all missing at least one thing that it provided (no Regenerator, less bulk, worse typing, no pivoting or wish passing) -- which is obviously why OU claimed it.

Just as an example, I was messing around with a half-baked team built around a -- core -- something Mola would have given fits on its own -- and won several games in the 1600s while paying next to zero attention because it's really easy to just overload physically offensive threats right now. I'm sure balance will catch up, but it might take a minute to find something to replace the 'Mola + Torn-T double Regen core as an all-purpose starting point. Looking forward to seeing how next week goes in UUSD.

 

[Eeveeto]

Now that UU Blitz tournament finished and Alomomola is gone, time to share some teams and tech I have been using during these past months:

https://pokepast.es/26d014a5b6683e9d

Pre-DLC Meta. These Mons spam Knock Off and status until Skeledirge or Kilowatrell sweep. Hariyama was the Hisuian Arcanine check I found (team was made around Muk, Hariyama was added later).

https://pokepast.es/bdc1e9c65e3b26ae

Volturn + Haxorus. Since Scizor is big threat, Haxorus is Tera Fire (also prevents burns). Dragon Fang ensured Sdef Hippo was 2HKOd at +1 without the need of Outrage.

https://pokepast.es/e81cfe70d7503924

Pre-DLC Weavile didn,t have Knock Off, so the best use I found for it was using Beat Up and having 5 of the Mons with the highest Attack in the Tier that also have defensive sinergy. Water Restalk Tauros is a really good Mon, better than Hariyama.

https://pokepast.es/ef83f15e6747364e

We are still pre-DLC, but Hoopa, Roaring Moon and Ursaluna are now in the Tier. Orthworm was the best solution for the former 2. Strategy of the team is simple, put hazards and Stall everything.

https://pokepast.es/c7b6f6254f4d5e2b

Birds. Bellibolt even prior to DLC was a good Mon, already had good experience with it in pre-Home Ubers, down in UU its even better. Static + big bulk + recover is always going to be good regardless of the Tier.

https://pokepast.es/ae179264961dab0b

Sand team, 4 immune to it Mons. A little slow, but gets the job done.

https://pokepast.es/f640ce5f0cdc3bda

Boots Stall. No removal, so there is one Mon with Sticky Hold to absorb Knock. Muk lacks 4 EVs (just realized it now) but has a spread designed to check well every Hoopa variant. Houndstone takes everything from the physical side, including Ursaluna... unless it uses EQ instead of Headlong Rush.

https://pokepast.es/ba127c3948d90e59

Similar concept to what I used in the finals of OU Wcop, aka Typhlosion + a couple of Mons that paralyze. Iron Jugulis pleasantly surprised me with how good he was at checking opposing offensive and balanced cores.

https://pokepast.es/307e63f5157ec732

Post-DLC Meta... but without October drops yet, so just NFEs and updated Movepools. Chesnaught got Knock Off, so naturally had to built with it. Weavile is the bigger winner, it can go back to OU in some months. Tinkaton with Pickpocket screws opposing Knock Off users.

https://pokepast.es/0dba8c7df53a6ae8

Bellibolt got Toxic! The funny frog can now be even more annoying than before. Hex Gengar abuses that and also enjoys getting Sludge Bomb back. Rest of the team is good stuff.

https://pokepast.es/e23050271ef13590

More new movepools experimented. Knock Off Tornadus-T is one of the most cancerous things ever invented. Knock Off Zarude is a faster and more offensive Wo-Chien, Meowscarada still wasn,t in the Tier. Flip Turn Basculegion gets momentum when it can,t kill stuff.

https://pokepast.es/9b5d387daf1cad6b

Still pre-drops, but people (me included) already started to realize how good Flip Turn Alomomola was at enabling all kind of crapmons. In this case, AV Pachirisu is the star, taking really strong hits from the special side while crippling opponents with Nuzzle and Super Fang or pivoting with U-Turn. Paralisis allows to run Band Gapdos and also helps Gengar to abuse Hex + Substitute combo. Alomomola + Pachirisu core was a really strong one, though later I found an even better AV user to pair Alomomola with.

https://pokepast.es/d07f32c163e1efb8

Yep, Grassy Glide Rillaboom had a brief UU moment. Him and Hisuian Braviary benefit a lot from Alomomola.

https://pokepast.es/415ed57c6fff2972

Finally, October drops happened. Since this is a Stall, only Clodsire is used here. Houndstone with Covert Cloak is the Garganacl check. For some reason despite Garchomp being in UU, I was paranoid about Mold Breaker Haxorus, so Weezing has Ability Shield.

https://pokepast.es/0aa88cc2d28f6b13

A Rain with some very wild stuff. I played some games before coming to the conclusion that Floatzel needed 4 Water Moves to optimally work. Fezandipiti is good special wall and pivot, if opponent doesn,t have Poison/Steel/Garganacl, it easily poisons with Beat Up, otherwise it uses U-Turn, so Shocks and Floatzel threaten. Poliwrath has Water Absorb to abuse Alomomola, with Sub + Encore its also a great Garganacl counterplay.

https://pokepast.es/e32a19dbacf56c9d

Chandelure + pivots. The lamp deals insane damage to slower teams and with Tera Grass can check Heatran pretty well. Mandibuzz was one of the few Mons able to check Garchomp, which at the moment was the most broken UU Mon.

:cacturne / https://pokepast.es/d68b0e0c0e6e0864

This didn,t work well, but it were my first 2 attempts at creating a Zombie army, a team designed to abuse Restalk + Revival Blessing startegy. Pawmot gaining Knock Off helped, since it was the perfect last move for the set. Staraptor with Final Gambit in theory should start the battle with 5-5 and vs weakened teams it still packed enough power with Reckless if Revived. Unfortunately, not only my team had Alomomola, everyone used it and even Water immune Mons didn,t help enough in those match-ups, therefore these teams ended up not being good. Pretty sure someone at some point will be able to make Pawmot work and star the Apocalypsis Z.

https://pokepast.es/5cb28d525c3f0a3d

I have been seeing many posts saying Gengar became bad after the drops, but I think people just were not using it the right way. With Destiny Bond + Life Orb he can take down a ghost check so that some other Ghost can sweep later. This team has 3 Ghosts, 2 of them with Destiny Bond. Dark types are not that threatening to Ghost, but there is one enormous threat: Tornadus-T. It has Knock Off, Regenerator, is faster and sometimes carries AV. So, the team has the biggest enemy to Torn, a Bellibolt. Restalk Enamorus is the best Ogerpon check that I could find without going too passive. Nikebeamz managed to beat this team yesterday, but needed great luck with Torn to do it.

https://pokepast.es/f092200046066716

The only Kommo-o team I built before it got banned. Also, one of the few times I used an offensive fast Iron Treads, has good sinergy with Fezandipiti due to it attracting Steel and Poison Mons. With Covert Cloak, Kommo-o didn,t care about Garganacl.

https://pokepast.es/282a3e90833439ba

A different take to Maushold. With Tera Grass, it lured Garganacl and smashed it with Bullet Seed. Since this team was pretty weak to Scizor, Scarf Tera Fire Noivern was added.

https://pokepast.es/de46ccfef9ecca7d

4 Regenerator Mons. Unfortunately, Nikebeams brought a Sub SD Iron Hands to deal with them, otherwise this was a very solid team.

https://pokepast.es/bace028c0e88b81a

Hoop Hoop. One on the many Mons that are helped by Alomomola. Breloom was great vs Garganacl.

https://pokepast.es/6c237e6506539e13

Bad team, but with some cool tech. Breloom can lure and eliminate Amoonguss with Tera Normal Facade, checking Garganacl at the same time. Heatran kills all usual Heatran answers, including Rain teams. Unfortunately, Amoonguss now isn,t the biggest threat to Breloom, Sinitcha is. Breloom struggles too much to break that.

https://pokepast.es/efa25b06f1ee144e

With Sandslash, Houndstone is not alone anymore, Sand is now viable and with Ursaluna, not even Alomomola can check them all the time.

https://pokepast.es/7c29e01ba4214978

Another attempt at Zombie Army, still not optimal but way better than Pawmot versions. Hilariously, with Tera Bug Rabsca sometimes is able to sweep some balance cores, imagine stuff like Alomomola/Treads/Amoonguss/Mandibuzz, with some help from partners, Rabsca can end some games by itself.

https://pokepast.es/63e224ab3e82e61d

Tinkaton has choosen the way of the violence. With Tera Ground + SD, it can lure and eliminate things like Treads and Volcanion. Lum Berry is for Scald and WoWs. Sub-Punch Okidogi abuses opposing Alomomola.

https://pokepast.es/9f4575bd0b8c6d3e

Remember how I said that I found some better AV user than Pachirisu? Eelektross is it. It trades Volt Absorb, Nuzzle and Super Fang for higher bulk, Levitate, Knock Off and damage output. With Alomomola's wish, it can come repeatedly on Tornadus and Thundurus and slowly pivot in order to allow Weavile enter. Speaking about Weavile, with Tera Dark the damage output is insane. You think Alomomola tanks it after taking a Knock? Well, with Hazard and Assurance enjoy taking 70%. Use Weavile while you can, at some point I believe it will go back to the OU Tier where it belongs. It never needed Triple Axel (in fact, its a suboptimal Move and worse than Icicle Crash most of the time) to be good, just Knock Off.

This team also had the most insane battle of the entire tour vs JustFranco , 172 turns in Blitz mode full of pain for both of us. Weavile power can be seen at display to the fullest in this battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1973680389-rmv8e66p3s1g5bwqg5hxclmpekfevi8pw

https://pokepast.es/d981974b3ce85b55

A Weezing whose goal is to break Regenerator cores. It does the job, despite the team being totally unable to beat Taunt Tera Ground Volcanion.

https://pokepast.es/f41c9dbd010a29e7

Trick Room experiment. Unfortunately, in Alomomola and Protect Heatran/Rotom meta, this kind of things just doesn,t work.

https://pokepast.es/f2996decef850456

A better attempt at using Conkeldurr and Goodra. Sets like these are generally bad, but Alomomola enabled them to work.

https://pokepast.es/aeb2b07b27816fcc

Tatsugiri abused Alomomola really well and could sometimes do some very funny sweeps, especially if something like TW Rotom was the counterplay. Tera Ground meant said Rotom was ready to be set-up on.

https://pokepast.es/fa2d8b579ae3ce5d

Tricking a Toxic Orb is fun. Also, Tera Electric Infernape is a nice surprise for the dreaded Tornadus-T.

https://pokepast.es/95370f60a3513283

Lokix is a discount Weavile with a strong priority move and a pivoting one. Unfortunately, original Weavile is just so much better.

https://pokepast.es/5b1b871c1b58615d

Dragmag, but since Magnezone sucked when I tried it, just made it 4 dragons instead. Haxorus with SD + Scale Shot is a threat to every team, Fairies are murdered by Iron Head. Salamence with Tera Fire is Scizor paranoia, with LO + Moxie it does big damage. Noivern does big damage too and cripples some Mons with Trick, allowing set-up. Dragalge is one of the many AV users that thrived with Alomomola's help.


https://pokepast.es/51ba596183cff10c

Dedenne is cool Zapdos and Sub SD Iron Hands check (non Sub-SD can be handles by Amoonguss). Super Fang is a very annoying move, especially if Alomomola can,t just switch into it.

https://pokepast.es/644c828c7f5f908b

Its hard to be a Skeledirge in a Knock Off meta. However, when we have 3 Rocky Helmet holders, one of which is the Static Bellibolt, the problem is sort of solved and Skeledirge swept in late game most of the time. In fact, this team easily managed to get top Top 1 position of the ladder. Unfortunately, Nikebeamz was way tougher than the ladder and just cleaned it with Specs Tera Flying Tornadus-T in Rain.


https://pokepast.es/003141e2d130821e

Before Slip offered us to not repeat the final of the Tournament, I got to build this, for a Meta in which Alomomola no longer can support the crazy Mons I try.

Will now leave UU for a few month, have other Tours to play and IRL things, have a nice Eeveening!

 

[so_dynamic]

Just joined UU and immediately got up to my usual antics of trying to make random shitmons work:
@
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Rock
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Tera Blast
- Victory Dance

With TB rock this thing has exactly 0 counters lol. It beats its most common counters in Skeledirge and Moltres with no prior chip and provides a solid STAB option that will heavily dent even neutral targets like Amoonguss (Pdef is 2HKO'd unboosted), Geezing (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks), Sinistcha (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks w/ lefties), and Band Okidogi (2HKO'd unboosted after rocks). And if it gets a VD off, it becomes the fastest thing in the tier barring some scarfers and Tera'd Ogerpon.

Unfortunately your new rock typing leaves (geddit?) you weak to all forms of priority, and using Life Orb essentially negates the VD defense boost. it also means that you actually lose to those faster threats (Scarf meow, BE Treads). Hustle is also the most fun ability in the game for obvious reasons. Finally, sometimes chip damage taken through attempting to setup will sometimes cut your sweep short through LO recoil.

So, what do you think? Did I burn the kitchen down?

I believe Life Orb would be too inconsistent, think Wide Lens is better here. I also think tera ghost is better here. Better defensive typing and hits more things offensively. As far as its viability, it seems like an okay mon, but I am not sure what niche it has over Iron Leaves. Leaves has the immediate speed boost, and a very important psychic stab to hit geezer, amoonguss, and okidogi. Hilli is cool in that it has more immediate power, but it will probably be tera dependant to do what it wants to do. Of course Hilligant can come in repeatedly and still sweep and has more immediate power, but I don't see any reason to run this kind of set. Maybe a chloro set w/ sun support could work.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Scarf gard is a very interesting Pokémon i want people to maybe explore... unlike some of my other wack options it feels like it has put in constant work where I need it.

Pros of gardevoir:

- Trace is incredible in a meat with regen, volt absorb thundy-t, adaptability bascu-f, swift swim, and toxic chain is a very strong ability that you can copy and take for urself. These are incredible traits that make it even worth using
- Fairy/Psychic/Fighting coverage is pretty bonkers with things like slowking, gastrodon, jirachi, and treads being worth to come in on these moves . Everything else takes way to much from it
- The last slot can be healing wish or trick depending on what you need... there are many reasons to use trick and many reasons to use healing wish.. like for ex. crippling slowking so your NP torn-t can take advantage of that or NP sub hydreigon can take advantage of gastrodon
- Has an incredible rain MU in a meta where rain is pretty strong

Cons:

- 80 base speed is a bit awkward as a scarfer and means smth like DD gyara, DD mence, having to tie with scarf hoopa-u is a bit of a problem but usually this isnt as big of a problem as one may think. Its awkward for sure
- Trick last slot has its uses but you should not rely on it... it can cripple smth but if gard is your speed control you better make sure the scarfer is able to be dealt with by the rest of the team
- Very prediction reliant against certain teams... yes it can break past amoonguss + iron treads with good prediction but it will struggles to make things work... you will have to knock the iron treads and wail at it with ur psychic and moonblasts or wear it down with hazards

Replays:

- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1983557203-k5b6up78ts0d73a56ixvr3v0hk3lmhrpw?p2 - with good prediction i was able to eliminate iron treads early on in the game and go ham with gardevoir... and copying regen can allow me to stay healthy when i need it to
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1980157632-aeuy0psneter519g2eur0k00i0lcierpw while i did lose.. i lost cuz ofmy misplays not because gard didnt pull its weight... with the use of copying swift swim it forces out the bascu-f every time... and allowed me to make the game
much closer than it could have been
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1977467720-5xy7ksixmd9fzdy4qx2bdrsq5sts0qipw While this replay is mainly heatran being MVP it still showed how i was able to wear down munikori and make significant progress esp since scizor didnt want to wail into heatran flame body
- sadly i dont save as much replay as I wish because I didnt expect to make this post...

 

[Cheryl.]

I'd like to start a discussion on Cresselia. Not to say that it's broken, but it's been seeing wildly consistent success in both SCL and UUSD as a late-game sweeper utilizing its Tera Poison Calm Mind set. And when I mean wildly, I mean that most of the time a replay with a Cress popped up, I got the impression that the Cress team was probably going to win and with Cress winning the end-game (and I was right most of the time lol). Obviously, dealing with such a fat Pokemon that can give itself a Toxic immunity is pretty rough, but I'd like to ask the community what their thoughts on Cress in the current meta are and if the counterplay to it is just rather underdeveloped at this time.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I'd like to start a discussion on Cresselia. Not to say that it's broken, but it's been seeing wildly consistent success in both SCL and UUSD as a late-game sweeper utilizing its Tera Poison Calm Mind set. And when I mean wildly, I mean that most of the time a replay with a Cress popped up, I got the impression that the Cress team was probably going to win and with Cress winning the end-game (and I was right most of the time lol). Obviously, dealing with such a fat Pokemon that can give itself a Toxic immunity is pretty rough, but I'd like to ask the community what their thoughts on Cress in the current meta are and if the counterplay to it is just rather underdeveloped at this time.

Cress is a very hit or miss pokemon and is very reliant on being setup in the correct position in the late game. If you make sure it cannot come in as easily or you have a stop to it or a physical setup sweeper then its prob doing jack shit.

But i want to talk about when cress hits the field and gets a CM up with a tera... our options are limited to... unaware skeledirge (lets not talk about how it can also lose esp if got statused from smth that makes it need to heal more or it just got worn down to much, SD scizor who is healthy, tera steel clod can prob PP stall it but that is smth i havent tested, and encore users can usually win the game against it.

Cress is prob like registeel from last gen... if it has a good MU its prob winning on the spot... but a bad MU (for registeel this would be taunt crobat, CM slowbro-g, ID skarm, CM hatt, chandelure.... etc) it wouldnt do as much or would prob be dead weight... it can win the game on the spot if they lack those things...

 

[Moutemoute]

I'd like to start a discussion on Cresselia. Not to say that it's broken, but it's been seeing wildly consistent success in both SCL and UUSD as a late-game sweeper utilizing its Tera Poison Calm Mind set. And when I mean wildly, I mean that most of the time a replay with a Cress popped up, I got the impression that the Cress team was probably going to win and with Cress winning the end-game (and I was right most of the time lol). Obviously, dealing with such a fat Pokemon that can give itself a Toxic immunity is pretty rough, but I'd like to ask the community what their thoughts on Cress in the current meta are and if the counterplay to it is just rather underdeveloped at this time.

I also would like to add to what HydreigonTheChild said in the post above by saying that a shit ton of players are not taking enough into the account Cresselia when they're building their team. With that in mind, a lot of teams may be weak to Cresselia but the same applies to a lot of key threats in this tier (especially in SV generation due to Tera). I think people are not using a lot of Haze, Roar users which can straight up mess with CM Cresselia. It's also "easy" to play around Cresselia because it does one single thing : being a "slow" setup sweeper. I think it's not that hard to play around it, especially if you're playing Taunt / Knock Off users (which are quite mandatory imo in the current state of the tier). You can also play around with things like Taunt Tornadus-T + a strong physical sweeper. Tornadus-T can come on Cresselia when it uses CM, prevent shenanigans with Knock Off + Taunt and then pivot into that strong physical threat to pressure Cresselia's recover. You can also play around it with Trick users such as Choice Scarf Meowscarada/Jirachi. All in all, I do believe Cresselia is dangerous but I think it's also because it's still an underestimated threat for many players.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I think people are not using a lot of Haze, Roar users which can straight up mess with CM Cresselia. It's also "easy" to play around Cresselia because it does one single thing : being a "slow" setup sweeper. I think it's not that hard to play around it, especially if you're playing Taunt / Knock Off users (which are quite mandatory imo in the current state of the tier).

Haze is limited to (not a great pool of options and less that want to fit haze on their moveset

Roar has more options but its still shallow and often times ur not using them like and yeah.. this is basically the list of users of roar...

There isnt a lot of counterplay in terms of things you can fit casually onto a team. You can see from the aomunt of teams in #teambuilding on discord or in PIA you often arent able to fit them... when has been the last time someone fit a jirachi because i dont remember that...

Taunt knock off torn-t sounds uncommon asf... i havent seen much of it although i have seen one person which i prob can assume to be you on ladder who ran it which did put in work but its not smth common

 

[udongirl]

Haze is limited to (not a great pool of options and less that want to fit haze on their moveset

Roar has more options but its still shallow and often times ur not using them like and yeah.. this is basically the list of users of roar...

There isnt a lot of counterplay in terms of things you can fit casually onto a team. You can see from the aomunt of teams in #teambuilding on discord or in PIA you often arent able to fit them... when has been the last time someone fit a jirachi because i dont remember that...

Taunt knock off torn-t sounds uncommon asf... i havent seen much of it although i have seen one person which i prob can assume to be you on ladder who ran it which did put in work but its not smth common

Fundamentally, there is no need to win over Cresselia users in the ladder because even if you have a team that loses 100% of the time to Cresselia if there are few Cresselia users, if you beat a player who does not use Cresselia, you will still get elo.
Aside from haze, trick and taunt are not difficult to match with a team, and because UU's wallbreaker is extremely powerful, it is not uncommon to see threats that can 2HKO Cresselia.
You should be aware that it is not necessary to win against all Pokémon, and that building to win against popular Pokémon is not an uncommon idea in ladder builds.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Fundamentally, there is no need to win over Cresselia users in the ladder because even if you have a team that loses 100% of the time to Cresselia if there are few Cresselia users, if you beat a player who does not use Cresselia, you will still get elo.
Aside from haze, trick and taunt are not difficult to match with a team, and because UU's wallbreaker is extremely powerful, it is not uncommon to see threats that can 2HKO Cresselia.
You should be aware that it is not necessary to win against all Pokémon, and that building to win against popular Pokémon is not an uncommon idea in ladder builds.

yeah ik that... ofc that is the thing of pressuring it early before it sets up but not many can achieve that well. UU has powerful wallbreakers but not every team has one that beats cress...

Yeah u cant build for everything heard that alr but its just cress is also just smth that is being used to catch people off guard. SS registel was like that... you ran ID Press and just nuked everyone who didnt pack a ghost, CM slowbro-g, or crobat and then we eventually adapted to its meta presence

 

[Isotopist]

A single room tour opened my eyes to one of the coolest anti-meta picks in the tier right now:

Iron Thorns @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Punch/Wild Charge/Taunt

Forces out and sets up a DD in its face (barring a Focus Blast), outspeeds the tier after a boost and only two priority moves(confined to like three mons in the tier in total) hit it super effectively.
Stone Edge for STAB, EQ to hit and trying to come in on a resisted/immune STAB. Ice Punch hits and , Wild Charge dunks on who may think he doesn't have it. Lum or a well timed Taunt prevents and from burning it, or or Sash from Sporing it. Tera Flying gets it out of Booster or STAB Ground moves and gives it a Fighting resist for Scarf and Mach Punch and a Grass resist for Scarf .

Quark Drive Attack boost lets it blow through pretty much any non resist after the boost, but way more committal and I don't think this has promise. Same with Life Orb. Boots could be good for checking Torn-T throughout the game even if Treads or Shocks come in on it and get rocks up.

I could see this being a pretty threatening rocks-setting pivot as well with Volt Switch due to that extremely useful matchup vs Torn. Pretty hard checked by those aforementioned Ground Types and Washtom who are everywhere in the tier right now though.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Did somebody say Roar? Did somebody complain about physical attackers in the tier? Oh, wait, that second one was me? Well, here's another RU (possibly NU after the next shifts?) 'mon that's been putting in decent work for me:

Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Body Press/Heavy Slam

Why Mudsdale over Hippo when Hippo has real recovery and Mudsdale doesn't? Obviously, the only reasonable answer is Stamina.

First up, Stamina over Sand Stream means you're not risking dealing passive damage to your own team. Second, the boost from Stamina is notable and puts setup sweepers in a place where they may *need* to boost more to break you, giving you an opening to Roar them and their boosts away. Finally, Stamina powers up Body Press, though I honestly think Heavy Slam is a great option to avoid running two moves with immunities -- in which case Mudsdale is also ~3x heavier than Hippo.

Finally, while Mudsdale's improved attack and special bulk (both ~10% better than Hippo if both are uninvested) aren't massive, they can make a difference on the margins.

Perfect example: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1987200874?p2
Mudsdale's special "bulk" is just bulky enough to be able to use its Stamina boosts to stay in on Gapdos even after eating a Surf from offensive Empoleon.

A few more Mudsdale replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1987174676?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1986944371?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1986932591

A couple other notes from recent laddering:
Booster Speed Iron Leaves is waaaay better than I would have given it credit for. SD+Psyblade+Leaf Blade+Tera Fire Tera Blast can clean up a huge portion of the meta.

I've struggled to "get" utility Torn-T sets. Clearly they put in work, but the lack of removal has always made it feel like barely more than a sidegrade to Cyclizar to me. But, man, Nasty Plot sets are a pure joy.

I've been running Tera Fighting CB Iron Hands with CC/Drain Punch/Ice Punch/EQ, and it puts up silly numbers. Like, 2HKO Defensive Sylveon with Band CC silly. Smash Tera Poison Hydreigon's subs with Band Drain Punch without Tera silly. I've mostly been using it to punch holes and simplify Iron Leaves' job of cleaning, but every now and then you hit a point where you can just Tera Fighting Drain Punch your way through whatever resists are left on the other team, and it's a beautiful thing.

 

[Magcargo]

Been playing this metagame to get away from OU. I thought it would be awesome since all my favorite Pokemon like Hydreigon, Meowscarada, Sinistcha, and Iron Treads were top dogs here compared to OU.

Unfortunately, little did I know that the low UU ladder was an unimaginable hell, filled with cheese mon after cheese mon. Quaqua, my #1 enemy while laddering in OU, is a staple on most teams, as are other evil cheese Pokemon I see from time to time like G-Moltres, Cresselia, Salamence, and Haxorus. Right next to them are unimaginably powerful wallbreakers like Hoopa-U, Specs Hydreigon, and Tera Water Golduck in rain. With such powerful cheese at other players disposal, one must fight the cheese with their own cheese

From playing for the past few days, I have learned a few things about UU. Namely that Treads and Torn are a duo more iconic than Gambit and Tusk in OU around these parts and that 90% of teams will have one of these two (oftentimes both). I hear whispers of Tornadus-T perhaps being too much for the tier, but after playing and experiencing the pain of missing 2-3 Bleakwind and Hurricanes in a row, this feels like cap. Torn is nuttin but a Knock / U-Turn Machine and maybe will cheese with Hurricane IF you are lucky. Compared to other dishonest Pokemon like Cresselia, I'd say its on the low side and if anything is a handy disrupter and progress maker with its Knock and U-Turn letting its team make better progress with hazards or avoid taking too much damage from various specs threats. Iron Treads is quite similar in its utility, being one of the most powerful progress makers with Spin and Rocks while also having decent power and good coverage with Ice spinner and EQ. Its also a great pivot with Volt Switch, if you can fit that onto its moveset.

Sinistcha is a Pokemon that drew me to this tier and I must say it has not dissappointed. MFer has some of the most insane longevity I've ever seen in a Pokemon thanks to the Strength Sap + Macha Gotcha combo. Strength Sap also makes it a great spinblocker. One could say its like Gliscor and Gholdengo wrapped up into one nice little expresso package. Sadly, like Gliscor and Gholdengo, Hydreigon easily preys on it, this time with its Specs set letting it completely destroy sinist even after a CM boost. Other mons like Torn also can deal high damage to it post tera, though that's not reliable because lol 70% accuracy STAB. Some may call Sinist cheap and cheese, but I'd say its awesome to have a Pokemon like Sinist to easily deal with enemy cheese strats from mons like Quaquaval with Strength sap.

Hydreigon is once again the goat, providing crucial emergency defensive utility with Tera Steel while also being a demon specs user. Unfortunately, it has a bit of 4MSS on its specs set since it wants Flamethrower, Flash cannon, and maybe Tera Blast Electric if you are cool.

Rotom-W feels severely nerfed from past generations, due to its longevitiy inhenrently being tied to Leftovers, but its still a top dog in the format, spreading status and having workable match-ups vs Torn-T, Treads, etc. Just don't get Knocked!

Scizor just doesn't feel like the same mon.... Without Roost, it doesn't feel as rescillient as it once did. Nonetheless its offensive potential is through the rough. Offensive SD sets are able to sweep vs most teams with ease.

Okidogi doesn't feel good to use.... If the opponent has Moltres, it feels like you have to spam Gunk miss in order to nail it on the switch, which on its bulk up set, isn't great since you ideally want to use that set to check a few mons. Its speed, power and bulk have never felt up to par.

One thing I love about this metagame is that stall is non-existant compared to OU. I wouldn't really describe what's on the ladder as balance or offensive though either, its hard to say what exactly it is.

 

[GULLY]

Tornadus-Therian (M)
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Acrobatics
- Knock Off
- Taunt

I posted about Acro Torn before but I still don’t see it being used enough so here’s goes again. This thing is an offensive beast. The first thing you see is no item, it’s a necessary trade off to have boosted acro, besides Regen is always getting you back at least 8 % up till 75%.100% accurate 110 bst Acro is so much more threatening than 70% percent accurate Hurricane. Outside of the rain it isn’t a legitimately spam-able move. Torns game of using knock and u turn then getting kos with flying stab becomes much more efficient with Acro as the investment makes knock and u turn stronger. Tera Fly makes this very mon hard to switch into and furthers the whole chip thing that Torn can do. Support this mon with spikes and you have your self a win con against most balance teams.

Here’s a game against a solid team and opp that gets crushed by Torn.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1985528872

 

[Smashburn]

Tornadus-Therian (M)
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Acrobatics
- Knock Off
- Taunt

I posted about Acro Torn before but I still don’t see it being used enough so here’s goes again. This thing is an offensive beast. The first thing you see is no item, it’s a necessary trade off to have boosted acro, besides Regen is always getting you back at least 8 % up till 75%.100% accurate 110 bst Acro is so much more threatening than 70% percent accurate Hurricane. Outside of the rain it isn’t a legitimately spam-able move. Torns game of using knock and u turn then getting kos with flying stab becomes much more efficient with Acro as the investment makes knock and u turn stronger. Tera Fly makes this very mon hard to switch into and furthers the whole chip thing that Torn can do. Support this mon with spikes and you have your self a win con against most balance teams.

Here’s a game against a solid team and opp that gets crushed by Torn.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1985528872

Why not just use somthing like red card for stuff trying to u-turn out and THEN smack them

 

[GULLY]

Why not just use somthing like red card for stuff trying to u-turn out and THEN smack them

being able to arco turn 1 is enough for me

 

[carbonlifeform]

Here's a silly 'Dogi set I've been workshopping:

Okidogi @ Leftovers
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Steel / Fairy
EVs: 224 HP / 16 Def / 208 SpD / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Fang

Do you need an offensive pivot with surprising longevity and the ability to make progress against switch-ins? Have you ever been frustrated by a standard poison proc from Poison Jab/Gunk Shot when you were really hoping for a Toxic Chain activation? Do you hate other humans just a little bit? Pro"Tox" Utility 'Dogi is here for you.

The set invests in mixed bulk with Protect + Lefties + Drain Punch granting some solid lasting power, Knock Off doing Knock Off things, and Poison Fang combined with Toxic Chain spreading Toxic poisoning like mad and adding extra value to Protect. Tera Steel is generally the play if your team has other reliable answers to Treads, but Fairy (and Water) are perfectly good blanket defensive types, too.

This is the set for you if you want a physical attacker that can come in on, say, Sinistcha or Washtom and wear them down without being worried about Strength Sap or losing all of its value from a stray burn. It also provides good offensive/defensive utility into the likes of Meow, Weavile, Hydreigon, Iron Hands (w/out EQ), and more.

Pair it with some extra Toxic/Protect/Hazard spam and you, too, could lead your opponents to say: "fuck this"

A few more:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1991217698?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1990743118?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1990599167?p2

Massive shoutout to that Item-less Acro Torn-T set from GULLY, which has been a lot of fun, as well.

 

[Freeroamer]

Surprised the subject of whether Torn is busted doesn’t garner more discussion, from where I’m looking it really is hard to find any drawbacks to its use other than having to run inaccurate moves unless using the physical set (which is definitely a sleeper).

It’s really uniquely threatening in that it can either just take the outlast route vs some of its checks via knock+uturn+regen making stuff like rotom etc. just really poor into it, or just going from the other side and mauling everything that isn’t like Bellibolt with fly/fight coverage. I’ve tried building a lot in this tier now over the last couple of months and it just seems really asinine whatever route you take unless you run Bellibolt 24/7. Would be interested to see how others find it because I really am stumped.