Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
S12 IS HERE, AND IT'S GS CUP! After many months of waiting, the cycle reaches its peak and once again we're allowed powerful duos. It is also going to last 7 months, and it'll be the Worlds format, meaning we can expect major development of the metagame! Who ever thought we'd get this far, huh?
Tier 3 Ho-oh Kyurem-W Necrozma Dusk Mane Reshiram Zamazenta-C Zekrom Zygarde Clefairy Ferrothorn Garchomp Glastrier Gothitelle Indeedee-F Kartana Metagross Mimikyu Rotom-H Rotom-W Spectrier Tapu Fini Thundurus Tornadus Togekiss Urshifu-S Urshifu-R Volcarona Whimsicott Zapdos Please remember this is a very early VR and so, many things can turn out different.
Also, please remember this is NOT a GS Cup VR. This mini-VR is so people can know what are the best Pokémon and focus the discussion on those previously mentioned.
Sample Teams:
With Dynamax: #1 ZacOgre at Evelyn's GS Cup Tour #1
#1 ZacOgre at WolfeyVGC's GS Cup Tour
Joe UX9's ZacOgre
Standard Dual Primal
Standard Hot Dog
Joe UX9's Hot Dog
Topics for debate:
These guys proven to be powerful threats on S10. Do you think, with proper support, they'll return?
Zacian vs. Kyogre; who's the most splashable on teams?
What you guys have been testing so far? I'm enjoying alot aforementioned Lunala!
Nice thread
So I'm going to do some nominations not gonna list placements cause the VR gonna need a rework anyways.
One of the most reliable answers to Calyrex-s as well as being very good at controlling the board with Yawn, Snarl and Baby Doll Eyes and doing good damage with Foul Play.
While I don't think ttar is very good I think it has a clear niche in countering Calyrex-S and providing weather control. Ttar's rock typing also lets it thwart Flying-types more immediatly then Umbreon.
Topcut your own tournement should be on the VR lol. Checks Kyogre and Calyrex-Ice and is very threatening as an endgame Pokémon its pretty good.
Registeel's advantages over Ferro are mainly not being quad fire weak and Amnesia making it hard to kill on both ends definitely worth using.
Dusclops is probably going to be worse then mimikyu most of the time but it has some good advantages like breaking Zacain-c's sub even through intimidate and or screens. It also has Haze and can underspeed and Taunt Amoonguss in TR, Bulldoze and a few other tools.
This duo being able to shut down so many of the restricted pokemon's abilitys and thus limiting counterplay they are good.
Another pokemon that i feel has a niche being a twind setter with a good Zacain-C MU threatening it with Wisp.I have seen Talonflame used on Kyogre teams before it also has things like Quick Guard and 100% hurricane in rain.
Another pretty bad pokemon but it has a niche with Lightning rod.
This pokemon shows up almost exclusively in restricted format and with good reason. Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Quash, and Trick is incredible utility.
Some other pokemon i feel should be on the VR that i do not care too much to explain why?
Nice thread
So I'm going to do some nominations not gonna list placements cause the VR gonna need a rework anyways.
One of the most reliable answers to Calyrex-s as well as being very good at controlling the board with Yawn, Snarl and Baby Doll Eyes and doing good damage with Foul Play.
While I don't think ttar is very good I think it has a clear niche in countering Calyrex-S and providing weather control. Ttar's rock typing also lets it thwart Flying-types more immediatly then Umbreon.
Topcut your own tournement should be on the VR lol. Checks Kyogre and Calyrex-Ice and is very threatening as an endgame Pokémon its pretty good.
Registeel's advantages over Ferro are mainly not being quad fire weak and Amnesia making it hard to kill on both ends definitely worth using.
Dusclops is probably going to be worse then mimikyu most of the time but it has some good advantages like breaking Zacain-c's sub even through intimidate and or screens. It also has Haze and can underspeed and Taunt Amoonguss in TR, Bulldoze and a few other tools.
This duo being able to shut down so many of the restricted pokemon's abilitys and thus limiting counterplay they are good.
Another pokemon that i feel has a niche being a twind setter with a good Zacain-C MU threatening it with Wisp.I have seen Talonflame used on Kyogre teams before it also has things like Quick Guard and 100% hurricane in rain.
Another pretty bad pokemon but it has a niche with Lightning rod.
This pokemon shows up almost exclusively in restricted format and with good reason. Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Quash, and Trick is incredible utility.
Some other pokemon i feel should be on the VR that i do not care too much to explain why?
I won't add Regigigas, nor everything because this is only a tier 3 VR (i feel everything you said is 4 except ferro). Please note, this thread IS NOT a GS Cup VR. So don't go posting 500 nominations. The mini VR is there so the discussions may be addressed to the better pokémon of the tier.
Nice thread
So I'm going to do some nominations not gonna list placements cause the VR gonna need a rework anyways.
One of the most reliable answers to Calyrex-s as well as being very good at controlling the board with Yawn, Snarl and Baby Doll Eyes and doing good damage with Foul Play.
While I don't think ttar is very good I think it has a clear niche in countering Calyrex-S and providing weather control. Ttar's rock typing also lets it thwart Flying-types more immediatly then Umbreon.
Topcut your own tournement should be on the VR lol. Checks Kyogre and Calyrex-Ice and is very threatening as an endgame Pokémon its pretty good.
Registeel's advantages over Ferro are mainly not being quad fire weak and Amnesia making it hard to kill on both ends definitely worth using.
Dusclops is probably going to be worse then mimikyu most of the time but it has some good advantages like breaking Zacain-c's sub even through intimidate and or screens. It also has Haze and can underspeed and Taunt Amoonguss in TR, Bulldoze and a few other tools.
This duo being able to shut down so many of the restricted pokemon's abilitys and thus limiting counterplay they are good.
Another pokemon that i feel has a niche being a twind setter with a good Zacain-C MU threatening it with Wisp.I have seen Talonflame used on Kyogre teams before it also has things like Quick Guard and 100% hurricane in rain.
Another pretty bad pokemon but it has a niche with Lightning rod.
This pokemon shows up almost exclusively in restricted format and with good reason. Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Quash, and Trick is incredible utility.
Some other pokemon i feel should be on the VR that i do not care too much to explain why?
Also, by other hand, I strongly disagree that Zekrom and Kyurem Black are unviable; let me go through why:
- First of all. With the additions of two slots, Zekrom may abuse Pokémon on its side, such as Kyogre, for dealing with Groudon and checking Calyrex-I. Plus it deals with Landorus and Incineroar quite well, the 2 Pokémon that Intimidate our poor thunder boy
- Regarding Kyurem-B, I think it is arguably better then Zekrom. Kyurem Black can consistently check both Kyogre and Groudon, pair it with a Pokémon like Volcarona to redirect Zacian's attacks while adding a chance to burn it and it can go nuts.
Of course. I don't think neither Kyurem-B / Zekrom will dominate the metagame, but they will have their chance to shine
my answers for the debate topics:
1. zama will be viable, it hasamazing support moves one to note is howl, it can rly makefor some interesting teams especially since the best restricteds are physcal (cough cough zacian cough cough) also coaching helps with trick room setting so i can see something like coaching zama with clayrex ice
2. with the amount of coverage those two give to eachother i can see it being very good and probably one of the big cores that'll be widely used, but there defenitely are ways to counter it, a few suggestions i have is: av groudon, venukoal, general sun, and bulky mon thats can take a hit from zacian and hit back (like zapdos)
3: they wont always be replaced since there are other restricteds that you can use and simply keep the other mon, always replacing them is a waste of legendary slots depending on who you ask
those are my answers. feel free to send counterattacks in any way possible, also is it okay for posting our own teams here?
For the last debate question:
I think that at least glastrier will still be good to use over the ice rider, as it can essentially be a third restricted with great snowballing potential. Obviously it has to watch out for zacians, but incineroar, volcarona, and more can be used to mitigate it. Not taking super effective damage from shadow rider and yveltal helps it out a lot too. The ice horse might not reign over the meta, but it will still be damn good on the right teams.
Responding to the debate topics (for reference, my only GS Cup background is Evelyn's tournament, so this is less experience based, more a first glance perspective):
1 - Zamazenta has interesting support tools (Coaching, Wide Guard, Snarl, even Scary Face and Helping Hand), the main question is how worthwhile is it to use one of your restricted slots on a mon that can't Dynamax or have massive offensive output without it, the GS Cup tournament had two next to Zygarde (i'd imagine Zamazenta helps Zygarde set up with Coaching+Snarl and damages the Fairies and Ice types that are an issue to it) and Groudon (already has pretty good spread damage output that gets amplified with Coaching, damage output can also be helped with Charizard backing them up, plus Venusaur is a pretty solid option), I doubt it becomes common but it will get decent use.
2 - ZacOgre is kinda like the TornOgre of S8, in the sense that it'll probably the easiest to pick up and play early series, but will have to adapt to everything preparing for it, but I don't mean to say it's bad or anything close to it, since it'll probably be top 5 (potentially 1st?) in terms of used restricted combos.
3 - Glastrier/Moltres-G (and potentially Spectrier fits here also) seem to fall into the same conundrum that Metagross fell into in S8, where there's a restricted that does the same thing that it likes to do, but better in some way (Calyrex-Ice can set TR, Yveltal has better coverage, Calyrex-Shadow outspeeds everything bar Eleki and Pheromosa, Solgaleo is faster and has more coverage), but they can all be justified depending on which restricted combos you're willing to go with.
Now in terms of ranking the restricted Pokemon, this tier list is purely off of what I saw in the GS Cup tournament, S8, and my own opinions, so take it with a massive grain of salt, but I'll put my thoughts below
Zacian is feared for a reason, Behemoth Blade cutting through Dynamax is insane coming off of an automatic +1 boost to 170 base attack, plus being able to run BB+Close Combat/Sacred Sword and hitting 90% of mons neutrally gives so much leeway for the last two move slots to be what you want (though Protect + Substitute/Swords Dance will likely be standard), plus never being in contention for Dynamax means that your other mons will be able to use it to their hearts content
Kyogre was in all top 3 teams for a reason, Drizzle boosted Water Spout is an almost unmatched standard of power for a spread attack, and it doesn't need much coverage outside of either Thunder/Ice Beam, along with synergizing quite comfortably with most restricted mons, especially Zacian.
Groudon is hurt pretty hard by losing the primal form, and specifically the Fire type that made it burn immune, but gets an alternate option with Max Quake boosting it's lesser Special Defense, while Quake + Rockfall/Flare provide it with almost perfect neutral coverage, to let it have a move that can be tailored depending on team and partner, and with it's main partner in crime being the known threat that is GMax Venusaur, it'll definitely be a leading member for anything team that benefits from Sun/Max Quake boosts.
Calyrex-Shadow is the premier HO mon, Astral Barrage is what Origin Pulse wishes it was, and with Ghost being very good offensively by only having two stops to it (Normal and Dark), depending on what's partnered with it Calyrex may be able to end games in 2 or 3 turns, but needs to be going first and picking up KOs to do so, and will necessitate speed control to unlock its true potential.
Calyrex-Ice is Hard TR's best mon now, with the option of either manually setting it or having a partner do it, Glacial Lance being practically unresisted once Calyrex gets going, and the option of different partners to enable TR or help it end games (Kyogre comes to mind by stopping the main Intimidators in the format) it's a mon that's almost impossible to stop once it gets going.
Yveltal is an interesting pokemon, with the bulk and offense to be able to either use it's supportive movepool (with things like Snarl, Taunt and Tailwind) or offensive (having Heat Wave and Focus Blast alongside its STABs), it serves an interesting role of jack of all trades but pretty good at all of them, and is probably the most customizable of the upper tier restricteds.
Palkia is this high up due to its positive matchups against many restricteds, mainly Kyogre (Max Lightning), Groudon (Max Geyser + can't switch in to a Wyrmwind on it or the partner) and Zacian (if it doesn't have Play Rough), along with being an offensive version of Yveltal's jack of all trades role, with having access to 9 different special max moves, the main issue it has is not knowing what moves to give it.
Dialga has a very good combination of typing and bulk to allow for a Weakness Policy set, (though Assault Vest is also usable) and also can set its own Trick Room, but the weaknesses that allow it to run WP also can be an issue for it, along with its need for set up through either TR or WP being exploitable with Eerie Impulse users like Regieleki and Porygon2, but it is still very strong when put into position.
Solgaleo will likely be doing the same it did in S8, paired with Spectrier+Fini for WP and burn protection, the question will then be what partners with it, with water types like Palkia and Kyogre being the most likely, the main issue is that it almost demands to be Dynamaxed, and not all restricteds are able to work under those conditons.
Necrozma-DM functions similarly to Solgaleo, but trades Speed and Clear Full Metal Body for more bulk, Trick Room, and Prism Armor lowering SE damage, with TR being the main cause for change between Solgaleo and Necrozma teams, but it does have the same "problem" as Solgaleo in wanting to be the main dynamaxer, while sharing a typing (Steel) with 2 of the 3 mons that can't Dynamax.
Kyurem-White has very clear strengths and flaws from just a first glance: perfect neutral coverage between Dragon+Ice+Ground coming off of 170 base Special Attack, but an awful defensive typing in Dragon/Ice that leaves you vunerable to Steel most crucially, and with Zacian (in theory) being one of the top mons in the format, it's a very big ask to play around it, but it has a high ceiling if you can play around it.
Reshiram is a alternate way of running Kyurem-White, with it trading 20 Special Attack and Ice STAB, for a Fire typing which lets you resist Steels and not be weak to Fairy or Fighting, but leaves you vunerable to Max Quake, the easiest way of lowering your damage output.
Zamazenta will likely get some usage as I said, mainly next to the hardest hitting restricted mons.
Xerneas suffers a lot from max while also not being the best user of it, but is good if your team can waste Dynamax turns, which is a big ask though.
+ Lugia and Ho-Oh both were mainly used with Weakness Policy in S8, and I expect them to be used in the same way, though not to much success.
Kyurem-Black has a good matchup into many of the upper tier restricteds, but being a physical attacker weak to Max Steelspike is an issue, not to mention the Intimidators being able to resist a move on switch in to drop attack and take next to nothing.
Zygarde, as seen in the GS Cup tournament, can go far when piloted well, however the team composition is so set up reliant that I can't expect to be consistent over multiple tournaments.
+ Lunala and Necrozma-DW are both mons with solid support movepools that can also play offensive, but being x4 weak into Dark and Ghost is extremely problematic with Calyrex Shadow being out in the open.
Eternatus has a very interesting movepool that goes either defensive (Cosmic Power+Recover) or offensive (Meteor Beam+Special attacks) while also having another Dynamax piercing move in Dynamax Cannon, but being weak to Max Quake and only being able to boost itself once may be a big issue that it cannot deal with.
Rayquaza has Air Lock and the potential to be mixed, and those are the main things that should be exploited if you choose to use it.
On a personal level, I'm very curious to see what happens with Coalossal, since Volcalith is still effective against all the restricteds, and adding extra firepower with two other restricteds can help them to clean up games, the real question is how are you fitting them all together, since Dragapult+Incineroar+Rillaboom+Urshifu have been constants on Coal teams, with mons like Togekiss/Moltres-G/Celesteela being used as the last slots, where do you fit in two restricteds without compromising the Coalossal mode, or is it not possible and we see Coal drop off from its prior usage?
Responding to the debate topics (for reference, my only GS Cup background is Evelyn's tournament, so this is less experience based, more a first glance perspective):
1 - Zamazenta has interesting support tools (Coaching, Wide Guard, Snarl, even Scary Face and Helping Hand), the main question is how worthwhile is it to use one of your restricted slots on a mon that can't Dynamax or have massive offensive output without it, the GS Cup tournament had two next to Zygarde (i'd imagine Zamazenta helps Zygarde set up with Coaching+Snarl and damages the Fairies and Ice types that are an issue to it) and Groudon (already has pretty good spread damage output that gets amplified with Coaching, damage output can also be helped with Charizard backing them up, plus Venusaur is a pretty solid option), I doubt it becomes common but it will get decent use.
2 - ZacOgre is kinda like the TornOgre of S8, in the sense that it'll probably the easiest to pick up and play early series, but will have to adapt to everything preparing for it, but I don't mean to say it's bad or anything close to it, since it'll probably be top 5 (potentially 1st?) in terms of used restricted combos.
3 - Glastrier/Moltres-G (and potentially Spectrier fits here also) seem to fall into the same conundrum that Metagross fell into in S8, where there's a restricted that does the same thing that it likes to do, but better in some way (Calyrex-Ice can set TR, Yveltal has better coverage, Calyrex-Shadow outspeeds everything bar Eleki and Pheromosa, Solgaleo is faster and has more coverage), but they can all be justified depending on which restricted combos you're willing to go with.
Now in terms of ranking the restricted Pokemon, this tier list is purely off of what I saw in the GS Cup tournament, S8, and my own opinions, so take it with a massive grain of salt, but I'll put my thoughts below
Zacian is feared for a reason, Behemoth Blade cutting through Dynamax is insane coming off of an automatic +1 boost to 170 base attack, plus being able to run BB+Close Combat/Sacred Sword and hitting 90% of mons neutrally gives so much leeway for the last two move slots to be what you want (though Protect + Substitute/Swords Dance will likely be standard), plus never being in contention for Dynamax means that your other mons will be able to use it to their hearts content
Kyogre was in all top 3 teams for a reason, Drizzle boosted Water Spout is an almost unmatched standard of power for a spread attack, and it doesn't need much coverage outside of either Thunder/Ice Beam, along with synergizing quite comfortably with most restricted mons, especially Zacian.
Groudon is hurt pretty hard by losing the primal form, and specifically the Fire type that made it burn immune, but gets an alternate option with Max Quake boosting it's lesser Special Defense, while Quake + Rockfall/Flare provide it with almost perfect neutral coverage, to let it have a move that can be tailored depending on team and partner, and with it's main partner in crime being the known threat that is GMax Venusaur, it'll definitely be a leading member for anything team that benefits from Sun/Max Quake boosts.
Calyrex-Shadow is the premier HO mon, Astral Barrage is what Origin Pulse wishes it was, and with Ghost being very good offensively by only having two stops to it (Normal and Dark), depending on what's partnered with it Calyrex may be able to end games in 2 or 3 turns, but needs to be going first and picking up KOs to do so, and will necessitate speed control to unlock its true potential.
Calyrex-Ice is Hard TR's best mon now, with the option of either manually setting it or having a partner do it, Glacial Lance being practically unresisted once Calyrex gets going, and the option of different partners to enable TR or help it end games (Kyogre comes to mind by stopping the main Intimidators in the format) it's a mon that's almost impossible to stop once it gets going.
Yveltal is an interesting pokemon, with the bulk and offense to be able to either use it's supportive movepool (with things like Snarl, Taunt and Tailwind) or offensive (having Heat Wave and Focus Blast alongside its STABs), it serves an interesting role of jack of all trades but pretty good at all of them, and is probably the most customizable of the upper tier restricteds.
Palkia is this high up due to its positive matchups against many restricteds, mainly Kyogre (Max Lightning), Groudon (Max Geyser + can't switch in to a Wyrmwind on it or the partner) and Zacian (if it doesn't have Play Rough), along with being an offensive version of Yveltal's jack of all trades role, with having access to 9 different special max moves, the main issue it has is not knowing what moves to give it.
Dialga has a very good combination of typing and bulk to allow for a Weakness Policy set, (though Assault Vest is also usable) and also can set its own Trick Room, but the weaknesses that allow it to run WP also can be an issue for it, along with its need for set up through either TR or WP being exploitable with Eerie Impulse users like Regieleki and Porygon2, but it is still very strong when put into position.
Solgaleo will likely be doing the same it did in S8, paired with Spectrier+Fini for WP and burn protection, the question will then be what partners with it, with water types like Palkia and Kyogre being the most likely, the main issue is that it almost demands to be Dynamaxed, and not all restricteds are able to work under those conditons.
Necrozma-DM functions similarly to Solgaleo, but trades Speed and Clear Full Metal Body for more bulk, Trick Room, and Prism Armor lowering SE damage, with TR being the main cause for change between Solgaleo and Necrozma teams, but it does have the same "problem" as Solgaleo in wanting to be the main dynamaxer, while sharing a typing (Steel) with 2 of the 3 mons that can't Dynamax.
Kyurem-White has very clear strengths and flaws from just a first glance: perfect neutral coverage between Dragon+Ice+Ground coming off of 170 base Special Attack, but an awful defensive typing in Dragon/Ice that leaves you vunerable to Steel most crucially, and with Zacian (in theory) being one of the top mons in the format, it's a very big ask to play around it, but it has a high ceiling if you can play around it.
Reshiram is a alternate way of running Kyurem-White, with it trading 20 Special Attack and Ice STAB, for a Fire typing which lets you resist Steels and not be weak to Fairy or Fighting, but leaves you vunerable to Max Quake, the easiest way of lowering your damage output.
Zamazenta will likely get some usage as I said, mainly next to the hardest hitting restricted mons.
Xerneas suffers a lot from max while also not being the best user of it, but is good if your team can waste Dynamax turns, which is a big ask though.
+ Lugia and Ho-Oh both were mainly used with Weakness Policy in S8, and I expect them to be used in the same way, though not to much success.
Kyurem-Black has a good matchup into many of the upper tier restricteds, but being a physical attacker weak to Max Steelspike is an issue, not to mention the Intimidators being able to resist a move on switch in to drop attack and take next to nothing.
Zygarde, as seen in the GS Cup tournament, can go far when piloted well, however the team composition is so set up reliant that I can't expect to be consistent over multiple tournaments.
+ Lunala and Necrozma-DW are both mons with solid support movepools that can also play offensive, but being x4 weak into Dark and Ghost is extremely problematic with Calyrex Shadow being out in the open.
Eternatus has a very interesting movepool that goes either defensive (Cosmic Power+Recover) or offensive (Meteor Beam+Special attacks) while also having another Dynamax piercing move in Dynamax Cannon, but being weak to Max Quake and only being able to boost itself once may be a big issue that it cannot deal with.
Rayquaza has Air Lock and the potential to be mixed, and those are the main things that should be exploited if you choose to use it.
On a personal level, I'm very curious to see what happens with Coalossal, since Volcalith is still effective against all the restricteds, and adding extra firepower with two other restricteds can help them to clean up games, the real question is how are you fitting them all together, since Dragapult+Incineroar+Rillaboom+Urshifu have been constants on Coal teams, with mons like Togekiss/Moltres-G/Celesteela being used as the last slots, where do you fit in two restricteds without compromising the Coalossal mode, or is it not possible and we see Coal drop off from its prior usage?
I think it's very interesting the way you talked about Coalossal, so I'll dive more into it.
First of all, I think it's clear that Coalosssal is a little worse in Restricted formats. I say that because, well, Coalossal won PCI and PCII, but didn't manage to stay strong during PCIII.
Now, about the archetype. I think or we:
- Reinvent Coalossal
- Drop Coalossal
This would be the most standard version we have right now: Urshifu, Dragapult, Coalossal, Rillaboom, Flying-type and Incineroar. Togekiss won the first PC, and G-Moltres, the 2nd. Pokémon such as Celesteela also has been placed on this Flying-type slot.
The most easy slot to change, is of course, the Flying-type. For example, JoeUX9's PCIII team was this one above, with Yveltal taking the Flying-type. But the problem starts here. We can't remove a slot without drastically changing the team. First of all, you can't change neither Urshifu and Dragapult. Both are responsable for activating Coalossal. There isn't a single Restricted that fullfills the Fast Surf / Aqua Jet role.
So let's replace Rillaboom, right? Wrong. Rillaboom needs to be on the team even more considering Kyogre and Groudon will just do their thing. Rillaboom is necessary to keep both in check and also endgame with Volcalith's chip damage.
Last but not least, we have Incineroar, and well, if I would bet all of my Smogon likes on who would be removed, it would be Incineroar. Although Calyrex-I, Groudon, Zacian and other really good physical attackers are running the format, Incineroar could be replaced by your own Zacian, for example.
So, if I would bet, I would say
will be the most explored Coalossal version. Of course, I think we have a long way to solve the Coalossal issue. We can, for example, run Surf on a restricted, such as Palkia and Rayquaza, use Dragonite, or other interesting methods. I'm hyped to see what players will come up with.
Also, contributing to the tier list spam, this is mine
Tier S:
Zacian, Kyogre and Groudon are all amazing picks. There are arguments on why Groudon should be A instead S, but I believe Groudon is yet to be fully explored. I think Zacian + Groudon teams will be so good, and I believe the Ground-type restricted will pop off later in the series as it always does
Tier A:
Yveltal, Calyrex-I and Calyrex-S are no joke. Yveltal is arguably the best Max Airstream abuser of all restricteds, it is one of the few Pokémon that can run a mixed set effectively, making it great against Pokémon like Incineroar and Landorus-T. About Calyrexes, I think Calyrex-S will pop off in usage, since we now have more tools to deal with Pokémon such as Urshifu-S. Calyrex-I will be a great pick in VenuDon teams.
Tier B:
Tier B is the tier where I placed the good Restricteds, but their weaknessess are easily exploitable. Zamazenta is defensive, Dialga, Palkia, Reshiram and Kyurem-W can all be shut down with Snarls and Eerie Impulses. The rest of them are weak to other better restricteds such as Groudon and Zacian and are weak to Intimidate and Foul Play.
Tier C:
Tier C is where it gets messy. I believe Johto birds and Eternatus will find some way to be used. Ho-oh can play a more supportive roll, abusing its Regenerator abilty, Sacred Fire etc. About Lugia, Lugia is able to set up and abuse its Multiscale ability with ease. Eternatus shown itself to be a good Dynamax counter, and a great Meteor Beam + Power Herb wielder.
Tier D:
Everything trash belongs here. This includes Giratina's, because they're so weak to Pokémon such as Yveltal, Calyrex-S and Urshifu-S, and also includes Xerneas, which got seriously nerfed with Dynamax and Zacian.
Hey all, I'm SoleSurvivorVGC and today I wanna share the GS Cup team I've used to take a decent amount of tours on PS!. As an introduction to me, I started playing VGC at the very beginning of April, 2020. During this time, the highest elo I've ever reached in VGC is 1605 in s5 VGC 2020 and in general is 1745 in Gen 8 DUbers, getting to Number 1 on the ladder with a 91% GXE. A few of you liked the GS Cup team btw so guess I'll post it for y'all too ^^
I tried a few new archetypes earlier in the s9 season after I was done with my goal of 1500 on ladder with a 60+ GXE which I did achieve. Some of these were Calyrex-Ice + Palkia, DialOgre and DialDon. None of these really suited me though so I reluctantly decided on using Zacian-C (I find Zacian-C as a really boring Pokemon don't ask me why). The first idea I got was to use ZacPult and that's the team I'm going to showcase ahead, enjoy!
TEAMBUILDING PROCESS
As mentioned before, the first Archetype that came to mind when considering Zacian-C was ZacPult so I started with that core. While considering my matchups against with Ground-Types like Landorus-T and Sun cores like Groudon-Venusaur-Charizard, I debated on using one of Groudon or Kyogre on the team. Ultimately, I decided on Kyogre which gave me more of an advantage over the cores I was weak to. Now, it was time to add some speed control to the team (besides Max Airstream from Dragapult, discussed later). Whimsicott stood out as a fast Tailwind user with the potential of having Helping Hand tech to boost the damage of my three beasts in Zacian, Dragapult and Kyogre. However, I quickly subbed it out for Tornadus which offered the same Tailwind and also Swagger into Dragapult and potentially also into Zacian. This also led me to give Dragapult a Lum Berry for the VenuDon matchup and also because I can then get a free +2 Attack on Dragapult after a Swagger from Tornadus, provided I don't miss. Now, the need for speed control was met and I had two more Pokemon slots available to further optimise my team. My team was now noticeably weak to Charizard if it had Sun up which is very specific considering I can replace it with Rain from Kyogre but scary nonetheless. I was also not doing too much damage to opposing Kyogre so I added a Regieleki to the team who gave me a way to hit Charizard, Kyogre and fellow Electric weaks and neutrals extremely hard while giving even more reliable speed control to the team. Now the team was nearly complete and all I was really weak to was Calyrex-Ice in Trick Room so I decided to add Incineroar to the team which provided bulky and reliable pivoting and of course, Intimidate. Besides, it offered Fake Out and a FOURTH resist to Rillaboom which was nice so it justifies the addition of Incin to the team other than it being mandatory to mindlessly add an Incineroar to every VGC team. And at this point, the team was basically complete. I just had to add EV spreads and Movesets and I was good to go. I was looking at this team of extremely powerful six Pokemon.
THE TEAM
Get the importable version of the team here!
Excalibur (Zacian-Crowned) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 28 Def / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Protect
- Substitute
The Pokemon the team was built around! This Zacian has 116 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature which makes it hit 201 speed which is enough to outspeed things like Spectrier, Charizard, Regigigas, Chlorophyll Venusaur in Sun after a +1 Speed boost from Dragapult's Max Airstream and max Speed Timid Regieleki also after a Max Airstream. Its admittedly slightly complex EV spread allows it to do the following:
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 135-160 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Rider Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 112-134 (62.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 92 HP / 140 SpD Zacian-Crowned in Rain: 138-163 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 108-128 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned in Sun: 92-110 (51.3 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Phantomalia (Dragapult) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Dragon Darts
- Protect
- Fly
The Pokemon who supports Zacian in dealing the insane damage it does. It gets Max Phantasm Defense drops so Zacian can clean up in the late game. This build is slightly different from the conventional spreads but it simply is one of the best for this team. With the speed investment, it hits 201 Speed like Zacian and does all that Zacian does with that speed. The Lum Berry is there for Sleep Powder from opposing Venusaur and also for Swagger from Tornadus. After an Airstream boost it can then outspeed and KO all variants of Venusaur. Additionally, if you like, you can increase its speed by 1 point so it can outspeed your Zacian so that you can get Defense drops before Zacian attacks. However, I've almost never led both of them together so it's kind of a waste of 8 EVs.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Dragapult Max Phantasm (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Metagross: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Metagross Max Hailstorm (130 BP) vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Dynamax Dragapult: 190-224 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Pokemon helps against the oppressive Ground-Types like Landorus-T and also gives me a safe bring VS Sun teams if I eliminate Venusaur which you know how if you read the Dragapult section. It has the simplest EV spread, maximising speed and power. I gave it a point of Defense over HP because it helps a little bit vs things like Landorus-T, Zacian, etc. Its main role is to spam fast Water Spouts.
Tornadus sets up Tailwind for my fast team, making them even faster so they can get huge damage off as quickly as possible. It can also Swagger Dragapult, giving it a free +2 Attack. It has enough HP to survive an Ice Beam from Kyogre.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
This team's hardest hitter for neutral and Super Effective targets by far. Its Magnet, STAB, Transistor Ability and Modest Nature effectively give it a +6 Sp. Atk boost when hitting anything. It also provides the team some backup speed control. Also Timid Eleki is cringe why do people use it
The defensive glue to this team. It provides Fake Out and Intimidate support while also offering bulky pivoting. Darkest Lariat can be used as an alternative to Snarl but I personally prefer Snarl for the Calyrex-Shadow and more importantly Yveltal matchups.
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 168-200 (83.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 160-190 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
Well, that was the team! I think the team has a lot of potential to be a threat in the speculated GS Cup meta and have definitely enjoyed using it a lot. Thanks a lot for reading it and drop criticisms you have, if any. Have a great day!
Hey all, I'm SoleSurvivorVGC and today I wanna share the GS Cup team I've used to take a decent amount of tours on PS!. As an introduction to me, I started playing VGC at the very beginning of April, 2020. During this time, the highest elo I've ever reached in VGC is 1605 in s5 VGC 2020 and in general is 1745 in Gen 8 DUbers, getting to Number 1 on the ladder with a 91% GXE. A few of you liked the GS Cup team btw so guess I'll post it for y'all too ^^
I tried a few new archetypes earlier in the s9 season after I was done with my goal of 1500 on ladder with a 60+ GXE which I did achieve. Some of these were Calyrex-Ice + Palkia, DialOgre and DialDon. None of these really suited me though so I reluctantly decided on using Zacian-C (I find Zacian-C as a really boring Pokemon don't ask me why). The first idea I got was to use ZacPult and that's the team I'm going to showcase ahead, enjoy!
TEAMBUILDING PROCESS
As mentioned before, the first Archetype that came to mind when considering Zacian-C was ZacPult so I started with that core. While considering my matchups against with Ground-Types like Landorus-T and Sun cores like Groudon-Venusaur-Charizard, I debated on using one of Groudon or Kyogre on the team. Ultimately, I decided on Kyogre which gave me more of an advantage over the cores I was weak to. Now, it was time to add some speed control to the team (besides Max Airstream from Dragapult, discussed later). Whimsicott stood out as a fast Tailwind user with the potential of having Helping Hand tech to boost the damage of my three beasts in Zacian, Dragapult and Kyogre. However, I quickly subbed it out for Tornadus which offered the same Tailwind and also Swagger into Dragapult and potentially also into Zacian. This also led me to give Dragapult a Lum Berry for the VenuDon matchup and also because I can then get a free +2 Attack on Dragapult after a Swagger from Tornadus, provided I don't miss. Now, the need for speed control was met and I had two more Pokemon slots available to further optimise my team. My team was now noticeably weak to Charizard if it had Sun up which is very specific considering I can replace it with Rain from Kyogre but scary nonetheless. I was also not doing too much damage to opposing Kyogre so I added a Regieleki to the team who gave me a way to hit Charizard, Kyogre and fellow Electric weaks and neutrals extremely hard while giving even more reliable speed control to the team. Now the team was nearly complete and all I was really weak to was Calyrex-Ice in Trick Room so I decided to add Incineroar to the team which provided bulky and reliable pivoting and of course, Intimidate. Besides, it offered Fake Out and a FOURTH resist to Rillaboom which was nice so it justifies the addition of Incin to the team other than it being mandatory to mindlessly add an Incineroar to every VGC team. And at this point, the team was basically complete. I just had to add EV spreads and Movesets and I was good to go. I was looking at this team of extremely powerful six Pokemon.
THE TEAM
Get the importable version of the team here!
Excalibur (Zacian-Crowned) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 28 Def / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Protect
- Substitute
The Pokemon the team was built around! This Zacian has 116 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature which makes it hit 201 speed which is enough to outspeed things like Spectrier, Charizard, Regigigas, Chlorophyll Venusaur in Sun after a +1 Speed boost from Dragapult's Max Airstream and max Speed Timid Regieleki also after a Max Airstream. Its admittedly slightly complex EV spread allows it to do the following:
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 135-160 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Rider Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 112-134 (62.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 92 HP / 140 SpD Zacian-Crowned in Rain: 138-163 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 108-128 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned in Sun: 92-110 (51.3 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Phantomalia (Dragapult) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Dragon Darts
- Protect
- Fly
The Pokemon who supports Zacian in dealing the insane damage it does. It gets Max Phantasm Defense drops so Zacian can clean up in the late game. This build is slightly different from the conventional spreads but it simply is one of the best for this team. With the speed investment, it hits 201 Speed like Zacian and does all that Zacian does with that speed. The Lum Berry is there for Sleep Powder from opposing Venusaur and also for Swagger from Tornadus. After an Airstream boost it can then outspeed and KO all variants of Venusaur. Additionally, if you like, you can increase its speed by 1 point so it can outspeed your Zacian so that you can get Defense drops before Zacian attacks. However, I've almost never led both of them together so it's kind of a waste of 8 EVs.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Dragapult Max Phantasm (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Metagross: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Metagross Max Hailstorm (130 BP) vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Dynamax Dragapult: 190-224 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This Pokemon helps against the oppressive Ground-Types like Landorus-T and also gives me a safe bring VS Sun teams if I eliminate Venusaur which you know how if you read the Dragapult section. It has the simplest EV spread, maximising speed and power. I gave it a point of Defense over HP because it helps a little bit vs things like Landorus-T, Zacian, etc. Its main role is to spam fast Water Spouts.
Tornadus sets up Tailwind for my fast team, making them even faster so they can get huge damage off as quickly as possible. It can also Swagger Dragapult, giving it a free +2 Attack. It has enough HP to survive an Ice Beam from Kyogre.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
This team's hardest hitter for neutral and Super Effective targets by far. Its Magnet, STAB, Transistor Ability and Modest Nature effectively give it a +6 Sp. Atk boost when hitting anything. It also provides the team some backup speed control. Also Timid Eleki is cringe why do people use it
The defensive glue to this team. It provides Fake Out and Intimidate support while also offering bulky pivoting. Darkest Lariat can be used as an alternative to Snarl but I personally prefer Snarl for the Calyrex-Shadow and more importantly Yveltal matchups.
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 168-200 (83.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 160-190 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
Well, that was the team! I think the team has a lot of potential to be a threat in the speculated GS Cup meta and have definitely enjoyed using it a lot. Thanks a lot for reading it and drop criticisms you have, if any. Have a great day!
you know you dont need approval for posting this here right
nice team, but i feel your calcs are bit off.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
these calcs should be guarantee, you clearly have the evs to spare
also grats on the 1700, good luck on the future gs cup ladder.
cheers
I'm gonna be entirely honest and say that I think Caly-S and Zacian will be a force to be reckoned with. ShadowRex is just covered so nicely by Zacian's STABs and Zacian just takes out Incineroar and Urshi for free. In return, Caly-S gets to take out massive chunks of the enemy team scot-free after urshifu is dead.
you know you dont need approval for posting this here right
nice team, but i feel your calcs are bit off.
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
these calcs should be guarantee, you clearly have the evs to spare
also grats on the 1700, good luck on the future gs cup ladder.
cheers
ye I do but 1) it was like 11 pm and 2) I was being an idiot and didn't bother reading the first paragraph which literally says feel free to post teams, my bad
as for the Torn I had the 92 Sp.Atk EV's calced for something I forgot to mention while writing the report and now can't remember and the Zacian calc is just fine imo bc it would take a whole lot more EV's to guarantee the KO which would significantly reduce its bulk. the Pult calc is a little weird tho I've gotta admit. will work on a better spread. also thanks, appreciate it :]
also I was working on a Xerneas-Solgaleo team for GS Cup. if anyone wants to help me build it, hmu @SoleSurvivorVGC on PS. discord works too, pm Sole Survivor#9805. and don't even think about badmouthing my girl Xern bc it got to no 1 on the s8 ladder even if it was with a goated player bc it was called "almost unviable" by many. also the restricted pairing is Xern-Solg (or XLion if you're a cool kid) over XernDon bc it's just far too difficult to build around bc it's extremely weak to common restricteds like Kyogre and Calyrex-Ice bc you've gotta choose which one you wanna auto lose to while building because you can only ever cover one even with all the different type and mon combinations I've tried with my friends so I would appreciate any help I can get with this team. cheers
X9 Cup thoughts
So, JoeUX9's GS Cup just concluded and I want to give my thoughts.
Team used:
After playing with Zacian + Kyogre and considering half of my 18 matches were mirrors, I can easily say, this core isn't as good as we thought. ZacOgre getes easily broken apart by good enemy weather control, Regieleki, bulky Water-types such as opposing Dynamaxed Kyogre and Palkia. What most worried me was the Regieleki matchup, though. Even with Landorus-T on my team, Regieleki was a huge issue, specially in opposing TornOgre compositions, where opposing Tailwind and Regieleki just tears this core apart.
I think Amoonguss is the best redirector of the entire Series. Amoonguss can take so many hits, and goes so well against preiously mentioned ZacOgre (I lost all games I went against Amoonguss). Even with 2 Airstreams, Flare Blitz and Taunt I didn't manage to stop it. And it wasn't just me as well. Maybe we underprepared, but maybe it's, well, good.
I think Thundurus is a great Pokémon on this Series. I've faced both Prankster and Defiant variants, and both were quite bad to deal with. I think Thundurus will solidify itself on the meta very well.
I am having a little bit of issues with Ground-types, not because they're good, but yes because they're so limited. I believe we are going to find other good Grounds but being limited to Groudon, which is a Restricted slot plus it defines a whole archetype, and Landorus-T, that although it is still a good Pokémon, can't take on the huge amount of Ice-type coverage surrounding the format, suh as the Sinnoh's Hailstorms, Kyurem's powerful STAB, and the list goes on.
As I said, there are 2 good, Ground-types to stop it, plus it goes super well against all of the top tier restricteds. I think this Pokémon is going to be a problem. Being able to instantly shut down threats such as Palkia and Dialga with Eerie Impulse, but also dealing insane amounts of damage, even against AV Yveltal makes this Pokémon, in my view, a problem. I hope we do not evolve into a format where Groudon is too dominant because in theory that's the best restricted that deals with this thing.
I didn't play against a single Gothitelle, and I believe Gothitelle will not be too effective on GS.
I am IMPRESSED on how many Calyrex-S I played. I even missed a second Dark-type on the team, because oh boy I saw it everywhere. And there is a reason Calyrex-S unmatching speed being the fastest thing of the meta in exception of Regieleki, plus wielding a 120BP spread move, where now a second restricted can maul through the few resistances, and also the abscence of good Wide Guard except for stuff like Mienshao. I believe that Hyper-offensive teams with Calyrex-S and Regieleki should and definetly will be explored because I think Caly-S is just stupid. The capacity of pairing Zacian to take care good part of the Dark-types such as Grimmsnarl with its high stats made this, in my opinion, the best core of early GS Cup. Yes, even better then ZacOgre.
Just reforcing that it sucks, please do not use Xerneas.
yes I am a Garchomp Fangirl. Plus I'm blonde so Cynthia cos- Ahem. Regarding ZacOgre, what comes to my mind is Garchomp. Garchomp and Zacian synergize amazingly well defensively, and Garchomp makes the opposing Kyogre matchup so much easier. Holding an item such as Life Orb or access to partners that could Helping Hand it could make this Pokémon give some work against for example, Palkia. Plus, due to its Dragon-type, Garchomp is not weak to opposing Kyogre's Water Spout, and has the capacity of providing SpD boosts to the team. Regarding the Amoonguss problem, Kyogre should run Ice Beam most of the time, because Thunder just came out good against Kyogre mirrors.
Remember when I said Calyrex-S was an issue? Yea. Sorry for the caps but WHY I DID NOT SEE A SINGLE URSHIFU ACROSS MY GAMES. Really, I did not see any Urshifu, the only I did was Rapid Strike with Coalossal. I am impressed on why people do not took the bear. Maybe they were scared of Zacian + Kyogre?
Questions for debate
In addition to giving your thoughts on my opinions:
1 - How are you feeling about Regieleki?
2 - What's a restricted that's yet to be explored that could impact the metagame? Go wild! Even if it's Choie Scarf Eruption Groudon! XD (but please not Xerneas)
3 - Last but not least, (Shadow) Horsie or (Sword) Doggo?
1 - How are you feeling about Regieleki?
2 - What's a restricted that's yet to be explored that could impact the metagame? Go wild! Even if it's Choie Scarf Eruption Groudon! XD (but please not Xerneas)
3 - Last but not least, (Shadow) Horsie or (Sword) Doggo?
1.Busted as ever, I feel like Max sets that we saw in S9 aren't explored yet, but could be dangerous. I could see a Hyper Offense composition with Clefairy, Eleki, CalyS, Zacian, Landorus, and something else. It's such a good check to ZacOgre like you said and in general dominates so much offensive teams that rely on speed control.
2.Kyurem-Black, it's one of the best checks to Groudon and Kyogre in the game and can punish passive play with Dragon Dance sets. You just need a way to deal with the dog, so Kyurem-B+Groudon is ideal.
3. Is this a question eve? Sword Dog, Shadow Horse gets hard countered by the best Pokemon in the format, Incineroar, and is hard to fit on any team not called Hyper Offense. Zacian on the other hand isn't countered or really checked by Incin since y'know, Sacred Sword. Zacian also fits on every team under the sun (including sun). Kyogre teams, Groudon teams, Coal teams, ShadowRex teams, Yveltal teams, it really can fit with almost any restricted.
I have tested Kyurem-Black a bit and do believe it has potential in this format. In this post I do some theory crafting and share some of what I have found in testing.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb / Lum Berry Note that if you are running Lum berry the HP EVs are not needed as those were optimal for Life Orb recoil
Ability: Teravolt
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 188 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Icicle Spear
- Dual Wingbeat / Dragon Dance
- Protect / Dragon Dance
Dragon STAB is not at all essential on Kyurem. the combination of Ice+Electric threatens a lot on its own. Dual Wingbeat for Max Airstream I find to be overall more useful
Kyurem-Black @ Assault Vest
Ability: Teravolt
Level: 50
EVs: 244 Atk / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Fusion Bolt
- Dual Wingbeat
- Dragon Claw / Rock Slide / Body Press / Shadow Claw
Click on the sprites for the teams.
The rest of the teams are more experimental and or I am less confident in them but um have fun and or take inspiration. By Toastnobutter
Kyurem-Black is a restricted Pokémon with amazing offensive potential. Kyurem-Black however has numerous issues its very easy to slow down with Intimidate and screens, struggles vs Steel-types, and competes for a restricted slot. Kyurem-B however does do well into some very important pokemon. Its best matchups are vs Kyogre, Groudon, Venusuar, and Yveltal.
Does Kyurem-White outclass Kyurem-Black? No given that Kyurem-B has bolt beam coverage, can viably run Max Airstream, has Dragon Dance, and isn't slowed down by prankster Thundurus, Snarl and porygon2.
Teammates
Lets move onto teammates I think would help Kyurem-Black perform at its best.
Kyogre is able to deal with many of the pokemon that Kyurem-B struggles with like Incineroar, Zacian-C, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and more. Kyurem-Black in return is able to threaten Rillaboom, Venusuar, Dragapult, and doesent take too much damage from Regieleki.
Kyurem Black's ability to so immediately threaten Yveltal and Calyrex-S's ablility to threaten almost everything thats not Yveltal lol. Calyrex-S is able to outspeed and slam Zacian-C.
Solgaleo seems like it would be able to be an effective teammate of Kyurem-B so long you handle Calyrex-Shadow in the builder. Solgaleo is able to cover matchups like Calyrex-Ice and Zacian-C. Kyurem-Black is able to handle Yveltal and Groudon.
Less effective Restricted teammates.
While on paper Groudon sounds like a good partner for many reasons I do believe on Groudon teams Kyurem-W is generally more effective.
Kyurem-W is not slowed down by Intimidate and is better off in the sun ditto.
Dealing with Calyrex-Shadow so well is very good and opens spots in teambuilding. Kyurem-B also deals with Yveltal which Yveltal could struggle with. Yveltal is able to handle the Dark weak steel-types pretty well. Issue with this duo is the weakness to Calyrex-Ice and Zacian-C
Issue I have with this pairing despite some synergy is that it is very weak to Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and Solgaleo in case anyone was curious on the pairing of these 2.
By in large I think Kyogre is Kyurem-Blacks best restricted teammate and Calyrex-S may also be effective.
Volcarona provides redirection and is able to threaten Steel-types with its Fire STAB or Will-O-Wisp. Redirecting Zacain-C in particular is very helpful for Kyurem-B it also has Struggle Bug and String Shot as other board control options.
Incineroar is a very obvious teammate checks Zacian-C. Incineroar can slow down Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Calyrex-Shadow, and Kartana which is of course good for Kyurem.
Regieleki is able to form bolt beam coverage with Kyurem-B however Regieleki's electric coverage is much stronger then Kyurem-Black's. and together these 2 especially with speed boosts from Kyurem-Black can really terrorize the opponent with their offensive presence.
Prankster Thundurus to be specific seems like a pretty good Kyurem-B teammate it isn't immediately threatened by Zacian-C and is able to provide damage and speed control with Scary Face and Eerie impulse vs a large portion of the format.
Mienshao is an Offensive check to Incineroar and Urshifu Fake Out and Wide Guard making the Kyogre matchup even more comfortable is good. Mienshao can also run Taunt, Coaching, and Helping Hand as options.
Checks Kyogre but also isn't instantly demolished by Calyrex-Ice and can check opposing Steel-types in Dynamax with boosts which Kyurem-black of course appreciates.
Kyurem-Black on its own can struggle with Kyogre Rillaboom improves the matchup vs Regieleki and Kyogre further which can be very helpful given that Kyurem-Black despite resisting their STABS can still take a lot of damage.
Metagross for many of the same reasons as Solgaleo can be an effective Kyurem-Black teammate. Issue is often times its role will not be needed on a Kyurem-Black team.
I think it's very interesting the way you talked about Coalossal, so I'll dive more into it.
First of all, I think it's clear that Coalosssal is a little worse in Restricted formats. I say that because, well, Coalossal won PCI and PCII, but didn't manage to stay strong during PCIII.
Now, about the archetype. I think or we:
- Reinvent Coalossal
- Drop Coalossal
This would be the most standard version we have right now: Urshifu, Dragapult, Coalossal, Rillaboom, Flying-type and Incineroar. Togekiss won the first PC, and G-Moltres, the 2nd. Pokémon such as Celesteela also has been placed on this Flying-type slot.
The most easy slot to change, is of course, the Flying-type. For example, JoeUX9's PCIII team was this one above, with Yveltal taking the Flying-type. But the problem starts here. We can't remove a slot without drastically changing the team. First of all, you can't change neither Urshifu and Dragapult. Both are responsable for activating Coalossal. There isn't a single Restricted that fullfills the Fast Surf / Aqua Jet role.
So let's replace Rillaboom, right? Wrong. Rillaboom needs to be on the team even more considering Kyogre and Groudon will just do their thing. Rillaboom is necessary to keep both in check and also endgame with Volcalith's chip damage.
Last but not least, we have Incineroar, and well, if I would bet all of my Smogon likes on who would be removed, it would be Incineroar. Although Calyrex-I, Groudon, Zacian and other really good physical attackers are running the format, Incineroar could be replaced by your own Zacian, for example.
So, if I would bet, I would say
will be the most explored Coalossal version. Of course, I think we have a long way to solve the Coalossal issue. We can, for example, run Surf on a restricted, such as Palkia and Rayquaza, use Dragonite, or other interesting methods. I'm hyped to see what players will come up with.
In Terms of GS cup Coalossal teams I think that many of them may drop Dragapult on the team. Dragapult is a lot better when its the second fastest relevant pokemon in the format and resisted the STAB of the fastest being Regieleki. in GS cup both Zacian-C and Calyrex-S can easily outspeed and beat it. In terms of what could replace the Dragapult slot I am thinking Incineroar, Umbreon, Zacain-C, and Calyrex-S could be good replacements.
Calyrex-shadow seems especially interesting given that one of its counters is Yveltal who Coalossal does quite well into. Coal also does well into Incineroar appreciated by Calyrex-S of course.
1.Busted as ever, I feel like Max sets that we saw in S9 aren't explored yet, but could be dangerous. I could see a Hyper Offense composition with Clefairy, Eleki, CalyS, Zacian, Landorus, and something else. It's such a good check to ZacOgre like you said and in general dominates so much offensive teams that rely on speed control.
2.Kyurem-Black, it's one of the best checks to Groudon and Kyogre in the game and can punish passive play with Dragon Dance sets. You just need a way to deal with the dog, so Kyurem-B+Groudon is ideal.
3. Is this a question eve? Sword Dog, Shadow Horse gets hard countered by the best Pokemon in the format, Incineroar, and is hard to fit on any team not called Hyper Offense. Zacian on the other hand isn't countered or really checked by Incin since y'know, Sacred Sword. Zacian also fits on every team under the sun (including sun). Kyogre teams, Groudon teams, Coal teams, ShadowRex teams, Yveltal teams, it really can fit with almost any restricted.
I am IMPRESSED on how many Calyrex-S I played. I even missed a second Dark-type on the team, because oh boy I saw it everywhere. And there is a reason Calyrex-S unmatching speed being the fastest thing of the meta in exception of Regieleki, plus wielding a 120BP spread move, where now a second restricted can maul through the few resistances, and also the abscence of good Wide Guard except for stuff like Mienshao. I believe that Hyper-offensive teams with Calyrex-S and Regieleki should and definetly will be explored because I think Caly-S is just stupid. The capacity of pairing Zacian to take care good part of the Dark-types such as Grimmsnarl with its high stats made this, in my opinion, the best core of early GS Cup. Yes, even better then ZacOgre.
1 - How are you feeling about Regieleki?
2 - What's a restricted that's yet to be explored that could impact the metagame? Go wild! Even if it's Choie Scarf Eruption Groudon! XD (but please not Xerneas)
3 - Last but not least, (Shadow) Horsie or (Sword) Doggo?
Regieleki is still good and probably needs more exploration with its offensive sets.
As for my answer to question 2 i would say asides Kyurem-Black since my post is all about it lol that would be Reshiram. Reshiram matches up well into the many steels of the format makes good teammates with Sableye, Whimiscott, Calyrex-Shadow, and Zacian-C. On Groudon teams zard is better lol.
for 3 Both are very very good. I think Zacian-C is definitely better but Calyrex-Shadow Is very restricting. Also I do think Calyrex-S + Zacian-C could work especially as in tandem Incineroar can get warn down quickly. And these 2 cover for each others other weakness well like Calyrex-S dealing with NDM and solg and Zacain-C dealing with Yveltal.
I hope Series 11 is GS Cup. I like what Series 10 is doing, but with BDSP being November 19th and Series 10 ending October 31st I just really think we need something big for a final format before BDSP hopefully becomes the new VGC standard.
Kyogre
Zacian
Incineroar
Regieleki
Calyrex-S
Calyrex-I
Dialga
Groudon
Palkia
Solgaleo
Yveltal
Amoonguss
Charizard
Dragapult
Grimmsnarl
Landorus-T
Porygon2
Rillaboom
Venusaur
Ho-oh
Kyurem-W
Necrozma Dusk Mane
Reshiram
Zamazenta-C
Zekrom
Zygarde
Clefairy
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Glastrier
Gothitelle
Indeedee-F
Kartana
Metagross
Mimikyu
Rotom-H
Rotom-W
Spectrier
Tapu Fini
Thundurus
Tornadus
Togekiss
Urshifu-S
Urshifu-R
Volcarona
Whimsicott
Zapdos
These guys proven to be powerful threats on S10. Do you think, with proper support, they'll return?
What you guys have been testing so far? I'm enjoying alot aforementioned Lunala!
One of the most reliable answers to Calyrex-s as well as being very good at controlling the board with Yawn, Snarl and Baby Doll Eyes and doing good damage with Foul Play.
While I don't think ttar is very good I think it has a clear niche in countering Calyrex-S and providing weather control. Ttar's rock typing also lets it thwart Flying-types more immediatly then Umbreon.
Registeel's advantages over Ferro are mainly not being quad fire weak and Amnesia making it hard to kill on both ends definitely worth using.
Dusclops is probably going to be worse then mimikyu most of the time but it has some good advantages like breaking Zacain-c's sub even through intimidate and or screens. It also has Haze and can underspeed and Taunt Amoonguss in TR, Bulldoze and a few other tools.
This duo being able to shut down so many of the restricted pokemon's abilitys and thus limiting counterplay they are good.
Another pokemon that i feel has a niche being a twind setter with a good Zacain-C MU threatening it with Wisp.I have seen Talonflame used on Kyogre teams before it also has things like Quick Guard and 100% hurricane in rain.
Grimmsnarl
Torkoal
Coalossal
Entei
Mamoswine
Kingdra
Mienshao
Terrakion
Moltres-Galar
Weezing-Galar
Eternatus
Kyurem-B
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Lugia
Rayquaza
Mewtwo
Cosmog
Cosmoem
Zygarde, as seen in the GS Cup tournament, can go far when piloted well, however the team composition is so set up reliant that I can't expect to be consistent over multiple tournaments.
