Sounds good; thanks!
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Sword & Shield OU Analysis Discussion
- Thread starter Leo
- Start date
Tyranitar is still arguably a great pick for Gen 8 OU, even after losing Pursuit, and a lot of funky sets have popped up in its wake. Examples of it at work (I think) include the following by the user granrobulo, who, as of the time of this post's publication, has a gen 8 OU elo of 1812:
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106009797
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106005423
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106003736
Now, I'll be honest. I'm not sure of the finer details, I'll admit. You might want to ask the players for their input. I do know at least that this T-tar runs Rock Slide, Superpower, Heavy Slam, and Crunch, and isn't holding a choice item. Maybe an Expert Belt? What do you think?
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106009797
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106005423
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1106003736
Now, I'll be honest. I'm not sure of the finer details, I'll admit. You might want to ask the players for their input. I do know at least that this T-tar runs Rock Slide, Superpower, Heavy Slam, and Crunch, and isn't holding a choice item. Maybe an Expert Belt? What do you think?
We've talked it over but ultimately didn't implement it, reason being it's general policy to stick with 31 or 0 IVs as much as possible since there's been discussion about this in other contexts too.
Now that Galarian Weezing is considered viable in OU on the basis of its Neutralizing Gas set, letting it check threats like Conkeldurr and giving it other utility, I'd like to recommend a change on Ditto's analysis. Ditto currently runs 0 speed IVs in order to potentially faint last in Ditto vs Ditto struggle wars, a situation that is almost never encountered. I think that Ditto should run 31 speed IVs now, or at the least enough speed IVs to outspeed Galarian Weezing while it is untransformed with Choice Scarf. Since Neutralizing Gas prevents Imposter from working, if you find yourself in a 1v1 situation with Ditto and Galarian Weezing, being able to outspeed it and Transform into it can minimize the damage you take from it and give you an opportunity to hit back. As rare as this situation is and as non-impactful on the game state as "last mon ditto vs. ditto struggle fest", I think any situation with Galarian Weezing vs. Ditto is much more likely to occur, and so this suggestion has some merit. Lemme know what you think
Galarian Weezing is still a really fringe viable Pokemon too though. Realistically both situations are about as likely as each other, so I don't really see a reason to implement this.
We talked it over and decided to keep the main set as 0 Speed but give the 16 IV set for Galarian Weezing a mention: https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/ditto/ou/
Speaking of Galarian Weezing, I'd like to mention one thing about its set that I think might be worth considering. I know that a new Galarian Weezing analysis is currently being worked on, but I honestly don't know if you're supposed to have credentials or something to comment on the WIPs, so I thought I would just mention it here. I apologize if I made the wrong call about where to post this.
Anyway, I think that 4 Speed EVs might be worth considering on Neutralizing Gas Galarian Weezing to outrun uninvested Grimmsnarl, especially if the Galarian Weezing has Defog. A significant number of Grimmsnarl run 0 Speed EVs, and speed-creeping Grimmsnarl is nice for Galarian Weezing because it allows him to do a chunk with Strange Steam before Light Screen goes up (often 2HKOing without Light Screen unless the Grimmsnarl is heavily invested in SpDef, plus there's the confusion chance) and also Defog before getting Taunted.
Anyway, I think that 4 Speed EVs might be worth considering on Neutralizing Gas Galarian Weezing to outrun uninvested Grimmsnarl, especially if the Galarian Weezing has Defog. A significant number of Grimmsnarl run 0 Speed EVs, and speed-creeping Grimmsnarl is nice for Galarian Weezing because it allows him to do a chunk with Strange Steam before Light Screen goes up (often 2HKOing without Light Screen unless the Grimmsnarl is heavily invested in SpDef, plus there's the confusion chance) and also Defog before getting Taunted.
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On Seismitoad's analysis, it's probably worth mentioning 24 Speed EVs somewhere (either on the set or in the description) to outrun Conkeldurr and potentially pick it off a weakened one before it can click CC/Facade/whatever. Not a massive deal but it is nice to feel even slightly less threatened in that matchup, especially considering how nutty Conkeldurr is vs balance.
I think that Calm Mind should be slashed with Psychic on the Substitute set on Primarina's analysis—it's a really gross set that I've been using quite a lot on balanced/BO teams recently that just kinda sits on a lot of balance teams' faces when paired with something that can remove or otherwise neuter Toxapex, such as Salazzle.
Edit: I've just noticed Sub revamp in the queue thread so if that's why it's not on there yet MB
Also this is more of a question than a suggestion, but on ladder (granted mid ladder) I've come across quite a few Focus Sash Bisharp. It's not listed anywhere on the analysis, so I just thought I'd ask: is there a notable team that has run this item or is it just one of those crappy ladder things?
I think that Calm Mind should be slashed with Psychic on the Substitute set on Primarina's analysis—it's a really gross set that I've been using quite a lot on balanced/BO teams recently that just kinda sits on a lot of balance teams' faces when paired with something that can remove or otherwise neuter Toxapex, such as Salazzle.
Edit: I've just noticed Sub revamp in the queue thread so if that's why it's not on there yet MB
Also this is more of a question than a suggestion, but on ladder (granted mid ladder) I've come across quite a few Focus Sash Bisharp. It's not listed anywhere on the analysis, so I just thought I'd ask: is there a notable team that has run this item or is it just one of those crappy ladder things?
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I've added a mention of 24 Speed EVs to Seismitoad's analysis and finally changed the moveslots like we'd been meaning to for ages. As for Primarina, its Substitute set is already up for a complete revamp.
Focus Sash Bisharp is just a ladder thing, it's bad because it has a much harder time to overwhelm Pokemon like Toxapex and specially defensive Corviknight.
Focus Sash Bisharp is just a ladder thing, it's bad because it has a much harder time to overwhelm Pokemon like Toxapex and specially defensive Corviknight.
I would like to know your opinions on a revamp of the Cinderace analysis: replacing its current set with a Libero set. I believe this has to be done now that HA for starters came out, and it helped Cinderace a lot, getting STAB on all of its moves. This, coupled with its amazing speed tier, really deserves its own analysis.
given there are only two weeks until DLC, we're holding off on revamping current analyses until the meta settles afterwards
Is Celebi not going to get an analysis?
It is not. Celebi isn’t ranked and thus will not be getting an analysis for the time being.
I'm a huge fan of Pyukumuku. I recommend an addition to the Unaware set with Leppa berry and Recycle replacing Left-Overs/HDB/Rocky-Helmet and Spite. My experience is limited to OU, but it should apply to all tiers.
Suggested Spread:
Pyukumuku (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Recycle
- Rest
- Recover
With this combo, Pyuku can pp-stall more than one mon, and potentially all the opponent's walls.
Pyuku must look out for Knock-Off.
Full Defense is still an option.
If you need replays or more info, please contact me. I'm keeping the description short but willing to write a full submission.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the legality of this set, but after my post on the simple-questions-simple-answers-thread, here is what they had to say:
"Eventually the battle will end due to PP stall. The endless battle applies to battles that would actually never end, it's an algorithm that would pop up automatically if it actually occurs. The 1000 turn policy was a result of stall v stall fests in Gen6 primarily that would never end due to Regen vs Regen mons."
I have been using the Block, Recycle, Recover, Rest Pyukumuku set for about a month. I have not received an endless-battle-clause message and no one has reported me. I spoke to a mod from the Help room and, according to them, the set is legal.
Suggested Spread:
Pyukumuku (F) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Recycle
- Rest
- Recover
With this combo, Pyuku can pp-stall more than one mon, and potentially all the opponent's walls.
Pyuku must look out for Knock-Off.
Full Defense is still an option.
If you need replays or more info, please contact me. I'm keeping the description short but willing to write a full submission.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on the legality of this set, but after my post on the simple-questions-simple-answers-thread, here is what they had to say:
"Eventually the battle will end due to PP stall. The endless battle applies to battles that would actually never end, it's an algorithm that would pop up automatically if it actually occurs. The 1000 turn policy was a result of stall v stall fests in Gen6 primarily that would never end due to Regen vs Regen mons."
I have been using the Block, Recycle, Recover, Rest Pyukumuku set for about a month. I have not received an endless-battle-clause message and no one has reported me. I spoke to a mod from the Help room and, according to them, the set is legal.
[12:26:55] SaberSeven: If only the analyses weren't so slow to being updated
[12:27:05] #AM: yeah that is an issue unfortunately
[12:27:09] SaberSeven: I'd have an easier time finding partners for Pult
Hi Ausma and Ruft/QC Via Training Academy on PS. Is there a timeline for these analysis to be updated besides the sample sets, which some are very outdated? Granted the OU QC activity and contributions in terms of quality is down so kind of difficult to get everything done but things like Dragapult need entire reworks or a small summary on partners (anything meta). Dragapult is also pretty high priority for anyone willing to write it and even pending any potential suspects/quick bans so would be nice to have this up in its entirety similar to Toxapex recently uploaded.
Thank you.
[12:27:05] #AM: yeah that is an issue unfortunately
[12:27:09] SaberSeven: I'd have an easier time finding partners for Pult
Hi Ausma and Ruft/QC Via Training Academy on PS. Is there a timeline for these analysis to be updated besides the sample sets, which some are very outdated? Granted the OU QC activity and contributions in terms of quality is down so kind of difficult to get everything done but things like Dragapult need entire reworks or a small summary on partners (anything meta). Dragapult is also pretty high priority for anyone willing to write it and even pending any potential suspects/quick bans so would be nice to have this up in its entirety similar to Toxapex recently uploaded.
Thank you.
Hello and thank you for your concerns.
The activity issue has been brought up recently and we are looking for ways to facilitate the QC process. A big factor that contributes towards this issue currently is that a lot of the QC members have their hands full with the ongoing SPL, so we are hoping that the end of this major tournament in a couple weeks will help alleviate this issue, to a certain degree at least. We are almost done with the first batch of analyses (S and A+ ranks on the VR at the time of the batch going up) and so the next batch, the A ranks (and possibly newly A+/S) will go up shortly (spoiler: Dragapult will be part of this). These analyses replace the sample sets, naturally.
STALL SLAYER CUCUMBER
Actually, Knock Off isn't as bad of an issue as I thought. I figured out if you pp drain your own recover, you can activate your leppa. Thus, it is safe inside the cucumber's belly and can't be Knocked Off. Then you're free to spam block indiscriminately, even if it's Magic Bounced back onto you, you can heal until Recover reaches zero again and, as long as you're slower, you can use Leppa and eat in the same turn. Rinse and repeat and this Pyuku can destroy all of stall except maybe Zapdos and Tangrowth, but if it isn't critted it can survive Tangrowth a large portion of the time:
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 246 HP / 50 SpD Pyukumuku through Light Screen: 67-81 (21.4 - 25.9%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO
Here is a replay of the set
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-1294803747-rz9rjr94u0u5whtvq1vp3f2r6v7rvn7pw
I used to run pyuku in ubers as a xern counter (while i was a noob) but it's been working pretty pog in ou as well
a toxic stall is also an option, a spdef set with toxic soak recover +move of your choice works fine.
a toxic stall is also an option, a spdef set with toxic soak recover +move of your choice works fine.
There is already a bulky Volcarona set that already survives Aqua Jet easily
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 228-270 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's for a Bulky Volc, I was suggesting a change that offensive Volc can run to not be revenge killed by a common mon in the metagame whilst still being more offensive than defensive
Will the Protective Pads set be added to Melmetal since that’s the reason for its current rank??
Yes, we do plan on adding that set
Bulk Up Zera EVs are wrong it looks like it was copy/pasted from the regular set.
252 Atk / 4 SpAtk / 252 Speed < - What it says on Bulk Up.
Toxic should be slashed With Volt Switch on the regular set, prioritized even. Implying no CC where its replaceable with Toxic means you are walled by Kyurem/Heatran/Ferro and only Knock Off to combat against Garchomp which is awful it should never be slashed with something else. I dont even remember the last time I used Volt Switch over Toxic, even things like Taunt are better.
252 Atk / 4 SpAtk / 252 Speed < - What it says on Bulk Up.
Toxic should be slashed With Volt Switch on the regular set, prioritized even. Implying no CC where its replaceable with Toxic means you are walled by Kyurem/Heatran/Ferro and only Knock Off to combat against Garchomp which is awful it should never be slashed with something else. I dont even remember the last time I used Volt Switch over Toxic, even things like Taunt are better.