Metagame SWSH RU Alpha - Metagame Thread

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Mavis

Banned deucer.
:sm/cinccino:

Call it cute but call it deadly, Cinccino is a great anti-metagame pick right now and I'm totally here for it.

Cinccino @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Rock Blast / Bullet Seed
- Bullet Seed / Knock Off
- U-turn

It's speed tier is just incredible, outrunning everything that isn't Salazzle or Boltund and being able to deal meaty damage to everything not a Steel-type. Rock Blast is a great coverage move, ensuring kills on top metagame threats Sigilyph, Galvantula, and Ninetales, along with Bullet Seed to 2hko Gigalith. Knock Off can ensure Steel-types like Steelix don't come in scot free.

It also has a great matchup against Sticky Webs, outspeeding the aforementioned Galvantula and easily 2hkoing Shuckle, while threatening many relevant abusers of Sticky Web, not many of which resist it's coverage combination.

Unfortunately it's blanked by Steelvally, but with a little Spikes chip and enough Tail Slapping, it can overcome even that.

Hope you guys try out Cinccino in the near future, I have teams using it I can drop if anyone is interested :)
 

solonor24

Tournament Banned
Hello everyone, i have really enjoyed this tier so far. This post will be dedicated to a pokemon in which i feel is quite underrated in the current metagame and can help you a lot particularly if you have been losing to sun. Sun at this current moment is quite a prominent playstyle with the likes of abusers such as shiftry, leafeon, maractus, vileplume etc. Not to mention the setters themselves are not just meme pokemon, they synergize very well with the current sun teams (torkoal rocks spin etc, and NP ninetales cannot ever be slept on.

:Goodra:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 72 HP / 208 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Power Whip
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt​

Goodra in general can fit on a lot of teams at this current moment. It sits on the majority of sun setters due to sap sipper, except for leafeon which can double-edge you to oblivion (Agens i will never forget when i thought goodra was gonna 6-0 u and then that happened.) Not to mention its amazing movepool of offensive moves it can use that can cater to almost any team. Although, goodra can be worn down quickly, so i would recommend pairing it with a poison type if possible to absorb the toxic spikes as the current hazard removers are either A) weak to t-spikes themselves or B) have a hard time removing hazards due to the influx of ghosts at this current moment in time.

I currently use this goodra set as it works as a nice barbaracle bait, ohkoing it even with a -atk nature while outspeeding it. This is obviously not the only set or spread that can be ran, as it can quite obviously run more bulk if need be. Goodra also provides a decent short term answer to sigilyph, which is a top 5 pokemon in usage at this current moment, as well as vaporeon.

This is the current team i have been using with it to a decent amount of success on the ladder:
https://pokepast.es/e01b85ca973d4bdc

Some replays to show how the team works:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1041481250-pk05m9oklqxmyt9sifen6ob7a5vks5wpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1041644994-lqw1sld2oqdhgcfpq2tv7ohvvg79fjdpw
 
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Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life


This meta, I can't lie. It's complete garbage and unfun to play right now as it's just a complete cesspool of broken and cheesy playstyles and mons mixed together while builders run Gigalith on 95% of their teams in a desperate attempt to check them all. Compared to the rather decent Pre-Alpha meta we had, it's a sad disappointment. The three mons I listed above are what I deem as the most pressing threats and reasons as to why building and playing this meta is garbage and unfun. Sun has been prepared for more these past few days but it's so constricting either way since you either run Gigalith and one of the random mons that checkmate Sun well (Turtonator, Goodra, Boots Salazzle come to mind) or well, look at that, you lost! Veil is similar except it's way more versatile in the mons that can be ran on it and Vanilluxe is also a capable threat outside of setting Veil which helps a lot. It's very hard to play against Veil since you basically have to never let Vanilluxe have a chance of setting up or things can and WILL snowball out of your favor very quickly due to the nature of things like SS Barb. Of course, the answer is to run Gigalith, Screen Cleaner, or a mon with Psychic Fangs, or lose, that's cool. Salazzle isn't inherently as cheesy as the other two, you might wonder why I put Lazzle over something like Webs teams. Well, Salazzle decided that checks weren't good enough for it. No, it gets immunity-less Toxic in a meta where Heal Bell has been deleted, and it has been blessed with the Heavy Duty Boots, allowing it to bypass it's previous #1 weakness of getting worn down by hazards easily. Now, Lazzle is able to abuse Toxic to fuck over any of it's switchins while having one of the best speed tiers in the meta, a relatively good typing both offensively and defensively, and a nice variety in what sets and moves it can run, with Nasty Plot and SubToxic sets both being incredibly viable. SubToxic preys on so many teams right now and can be incredibly tough to beat and prepare for... wait a second.... Gigalith...100% usage... oh its ok Lazzle isnt broken because we have...


(also Rhydon I guess)

This thing should have Top 3 usage at least by the end of the Alpha tour. It is the one thing saving teams from being absolutely SHAT UPON by other weathers and Salazzle, it is such a good blanket check to a ton of stupid shit right now and is the best Rocker in the tier. It isn't super one-dimensional either because Choice Band is ludicrously strong and has decent enough coverage to back it up. there's a reason why I'm meming Gigalith having 95% usage because it's really fucking good and as I said, is an amazing emergency stop to the broken unfun shit populating the meta right now. Does it outright make the meta fun to play and recommended? No, because if you don't run it you're probably running cheese or deciding to be at a disadvantage against the metagame and losing to stupid shit. (or using Rhydon, I guess.) seriously though Gigalith is a god, love this fat pile of rocks.

but yeah, I really don't like the state of this meta as it's very centralized around having to check cheese and a ton of other offensive threats like Salazzle and some other gay shit like Pangoro/Barbaracle/Vileplume in general toxic mon. Luckily it's just an Alpha so when Beta comes around we might gain some new stuff to help combat the wack mons and also ban Aurora Veil, likely Drought, and maybe have a discussion on Salazzle spamming Toxic on our teams.

yo and whoever that guy is running AV Alcremie on ladder fuck you that set is the real scum driving this metagame
 

Mavis

Banned deucer.
this got lost in the abyss of RU discord, but here's a video on my YouTube about Alpha and its current state.


discussed a lot of different things with people, and namely touched on what i presume to be the three big things that are problematic this meta: veil, drought, and sigilyph. should have two videos coming this weekend, one about the ongoing alpha tour collaborated with rhydonphilip and one on a team showcase featuring hogg, lighthouses, and others.
 
I feel like Toxic Spikes/Body Press might be the better option instead of Trick Room for that set (outside of a Trick Room team, of course). Since you're investing only in its defenses, I can't imagine you're trying to sweep with this set. Toxic Spikes would make for better team support, though there are a plethora of good Poison-types int he tier. Body Press would make really good use of that defensive investment, plus Ghost+Fighting coverage is pretty good.
I agree with this idea but I do accept the fact that we are all concerned about mons like vile plume , roserade . body press is good coverage for mons that are weak to it like milotic because it has less phy def . toxic spikes are nice but i think that they are to hard to setup in the current meta . i might consider adding body press but i like trick room for basically anything like taking on Attack invested mons which are fast . so press might be something i can try .
 
Hello RU, I've come to talk about some mons that haven't been receiving that much talk in this thread and that I think deserve some spotlight.
I've been stealing a lot of teams by the way so, I know these mons can put in work because they did so for others :blobthumbsup:
Rotom  sprite from Diamond & Pearl

Rotom @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
Rotom is a good wallbreaker that takes on Vaporeon, Jellicent, and Ghost types that want to spin block (like Dhelmise & Drifblim). It also has trick to cripple Gigalith and Snorlax. It sits at a decent 91 speed tier, outspeeding Roserade which is always solid. The ability + typing is also very useful for body press + earthquake Steelix.
Overall it might be better than Boltund seeing how it deals with Ground types better.
Voltturn momentum paired with Passimian or Rillaboom is also great for adding on pressure as they each take on each other's checks.
I recommend giving it a try if you haven't already. Stole this set from Chrisloud on ladder.

Gallade Shiny sprite from Diamond & Pearl

Gallade (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut / Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up / Swords Dance
Gallade is a phenomenal breaker that has very limited switch-ins. It deals with the popular Steelix/Gigalith + Vaporeon core and can KO many of the ghost types that are running around. It also easily outspeeds Pangoro while boasting a higher Attack stat by 1 point.
Give it a shot. I stole the idea from Lighthouses on ladder.

Hitmonlee  sprite from Silver

Hitmonlee (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Throat Chop
- Poison Jab / Rapid Spin
Hitmonlee is a cool mon that hits a good speed tier while having a huge power combo in HJK + Reckless + 120 Attack (that's only 4 pts lower than Pangoro). HJK is a gamble to use due to all the ghosts running around but, it is a very rewarding move considering how spammable it is too use against mons that don't resist. Throat Chop is all it has for the ghosts and poison jab is for bulky fairies. If you're desperate for a spinner, then a cool fact to point out that is that at +1 with Jolly nature it outspeeds the majority of scarfers like Indeedee, Rillaboom, and Passimian.
I hope you enjoy using this mon. This one is mostly my idea but Evigaro did point out this awesome calc in chat the other day:
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 158-186 (44.6 - 52.5%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Not bad, eh?

I do agree with Cheryl that Torkoal Sun teams, Vanniluxe Veil teams and Salazzle are very hard to deal with.
 
Hitmonlee (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Throat Chop
- Poison Jab / Rapid Spin
This is a solid looking rapid spinner. Throat chop is a great addition this gen. I don’t find myself struggling with fairy types too much. But :Vileplume: and :shiftry:on sun teams are rough. Would you consider Blaze kick viable vs sun teams? Probably for a LO or Expert belt set. If so, what would you cut?
 


This meta, I can't lie. It's complete garbage and unfun to play right now as it's just a complete cesspool of broken and cheesy playstyles and mons mixed together while builders run Gigalith on 95% of their teams in a desperate attempt to check them all. Compared to the rather decent Pre-Alpha meta we had, it's a sad disappointment. The three mons I listed above are what I deem as the most pressing threats and reasons as to why building and playing this meta is garbage and unfun. Sun has been prepared for more these past few days but it's so constricting either way since you either run Gigalith and one of the random mons that checkmate Sun well (Turtonator, Goodra, Boots Salazzle come to mind) or well, look at that, you lost! Veil is similar except it's way more versatile in the mons that can be ran on it and Vanilluxe is also a capable threat outside of setting Veil which helps a lot. It's very hard to play against Veil since you basically have to never let Vanilluxe have a chance of setting up or things can and WILL snowball out of your favor very quickly due to the nature of things like SS Barb. Of course, the answer is to run Gigalith, Screen Cleaner, or a mon with Psychic Fangs, or lose, that's cool. Salazzle isn't inherently as cheesy as the other two, you might wonder why I put Lazzle over something like Webs teams. Well, Salazzle decided that checks weren't good enough for it. No, it gets immunity-less Toxic in a meta where Heal Bell has been deleted, and it has been blessed with the Heavy Duty Boots, allowing it to bypass it's previous #1 weakness of getting worn down by hazards easily. Now, Lazzle is able to abuse Toxic to fuck over any of it's switchins while having one of the best speed tiers in the meta, a relatively good typing both offensively and defensively, and a nice variety in what sets and moves it can run, with Nasty Plot and SubToxic sets both being incredibly viable. SubToxic preys on so many teams right now and can be incredibly tough to beat and prepare for... wait a second.... Gigalith...100% usage... oh its ok Lazzle isnt broken because we have...


(also Rhydon I guess)

This thing should have Top 3 usage at least by the end of the Alpha tour. It is the one thing saving teams from being absolutely SHAT UPON by other weathers and Salazzle, it is such a good blanket check to a ton of stupid shit right now and is the best Rocker in the tier. It isn't super one-dimensional either because Choice Band is ludicrously strong and has decent enough coverage to back it up. there's a reason why I'm meming Gigalith having 95% usage because it's really fucking good and as I said, is an amazing emergency stop to the broken unfun shit populating the meta right now. Does it outright make the meta fun to play and recommended? No, because if you don't run it you're probably running cheese or deciding to be at a disadvantage against the metagame and losing to stupid shit. (or using Rhydon, I guess.) seriously though Gigalith is a god, love this fat pile of rocks.

but yeah, I really don't like the state of this meta as it's very centralized around having to check cheese and a ton of other offensive threats like Salazzle and some other gay shit like Pangoro/Barbaracle/Vileplume in general toxic mon. Luckily it's just an Alpha so when Beta comes around we might gain some new stuff to help combat the wack mons and also ban Aurora Veil, likely Drought, and maybe have a discussion on Salazzle spamming Toxic on our teams.

yo and whoever that guy is running AV Alcremie on ladder fuck you that set is the real scum driving this metagame
Wanted to echo this post because it can't be overstated just how much Gigalith actually covers, to the point that if you're not running it you're bound to get ran over by some cheese sooner or later. Probably sooner too, since you can just run Trapinch on your sun/veil squad to crush Giga/anti-sun mons anyways. Not to mention sun mu or otherwise Giga only has so much HP to begin with, and no recovery outside lefties + tect. If your opponent rolls up with say, Sigi + Lazzle + literally any decent special attacker, well, have fun with that. It's 100% the best mon in the tier for covering your own ass, so much to the point that it kinda invalidates most if not all other rockers just because it's so damn necessary atm if you aren't running some kind of HO of your own. I've for sure seen some solid builds that don't carry Giga, but those are few and far between. When the broken stuff gets banned it'll still be good, but rn there's literally no reason not to slap that boy on every team.

Speaking of broken though, since the quoted post didn't complain about Sigi at all I guess I'll do the honors.


Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Psyshock
- literally
- anything

I hate this stupid bird, there's only one switch-in in the entire tier and to no ones surprise it's Gigalith. I've messed around with stupid stuff like spdef Zweilous tryna check this mon, which worked surprisingly okay on a hazard stack build (and even helped derail sun too!) until I got DGleamed and realized that this mon might have defensive counterplay in theory, but not always in practice. Thought spdef Rhydon was a check? Catch this Energy Ball. Got a Psychic of your own? Blown away by Dark Pulse. Made an aggresive switch into something faster that can eat a hit? HMU because I can't find any mon like that, but if it existed and you can take any of Sigi's one million different coverage options you're still OHKO'd by TWave. And this is just the LO set. Maybe you thought you got the jump on this thing with something that can one shot before it rips through your team, but oops they were actually sash. Maybe the one reliable switch in Gigalith is low because they have five other mons that aren't Sigilyph and now you can just be Psyshock 2HKOd/+1 Psyshock KOd. And don't even get me going on that Cosmic Power filth.

It wouldn't be all that bad, if not for the fact that it has an obnoxious speed tier of 97 meaning that anything that can actually outspeed naturally and KO can't switch in without getting crushed instantly. Out of everything faster that isn't instantly put into range of rocks by a stock Psyshock, there's all of Whimsicott (Shock does 75% max, Whimsi can't kill in return, folds to HW), Sneasel (which I've seen once and it did nothing, folds to HW), Liepard (???), Rapidash-G (actually decent, but you need Wild Charge to actually KO and also this folds to 2 Air Slashes, or Shock into Slash after rocks) and Sigi itself in hopes to win a speed tie ig. As for slower switch-ins there's Vaporeon kinda but it 100% always has to Wish + Protect because if you aren't always at absolutely full you're sure as hell not switching back in a second time, and if you don't have Haze and it's CM Sigi you were doomed anyways.

By the way, Gigalith, the supposed counter:
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gigalith: 117-138 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 71.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
or
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 122-146 (32.6 - 39%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

If the Sigi player can apply any pressure at all, then needless to say that Giga ain't holding out for long. Not that Sigi is incapable of just beating down Giga by itself over time or anything as in this replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1042657206

tl;dr fuck this bird. just run 6 things that can OHKO it on every team in hopes to start the matchup 6 on 5 tbh. that or hope that it's not the set that beats you, because whatever set that may be it does exist and is perfectly viable.

Just so this post isn't all bitching, here's some other thoughts


Cool mon rn, overshadowed as a rocker by Gigalith's insane role compression but double dance can be pretty lethal rn especially when paired with webs. You're still hella tanky even without the investment and can even use opposing Gigalith to get off your dual dance, and still survive banded Pangoro BP after as seen here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1041074121

You can also set this thing up perfectly and still get crushed by SE being a great move as seen here:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1043183135

No Aqua Jet to keep down DDDon like in the ORAS NU days is nice, but he finds new nuisances in Scarf Pass and Boom. Still, an RP or SD alone may be enough to sweep or blow open a hole in certain matchups, and even without webs support you can outrun the entire relevant unboosted metagame bar Accelgor at +2 if Jolly. Jolly is still worth it unboosted to get the drop on defensive Mantine imo, but Adamant can be run for DAMAGE.

Don't run Megahorn on defensive btw, that was for Mesprit, Malamar, Musharna, and to a lesser extent Lilligant, none of which exist in this tier atm. Always use SD so you at least have a fighting chance against stuff like CurseLax.


Damn this thing is annoying. Probably the most consistent defogger imo, and a generally solid disruption mon that can deal respectable damage with boosted Hexes. I kinda don't want this mon to spread cuz it's so annoying ngl but 252 Def 252 Speed Timid is definitely the way. This let's you outrun and burn threatening attackers like Pangoro and Bewear before they can blow you back, and Base 80 ain't bad as a speed tier anyways. BTW, use Unburden. Aftermath is nice and all, but there's nothing quite like taking a Knock then crippling the entire opposing side of the field because you outspeed everything. If you're feeling extra spicy or already have hazard control, drop Wisp/Defog for T-Wave and laugh at all the people who hard switch Lazzle/Sigi/Tales in on you tryna dodge a burn.

Unburden doing its thing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1042545875

Speed investment paying off
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1042408012


Surprisingly strong with a LO boosted Thunder and can even outrun a +2 Barb as well as +2 Shiftry if you're packing a scarf. Stop sacking this thing to Gigalith turn 1 please he deserves more respect.


Really wishes it still had Knock Off, but still okay as a generally fat mon that's annoying for physical attackers to take down. Not bad as a defogger, though I'd personally give the edge to Drifblim. Bulk Up is still okay, but again, no Knock Off. Not a bad pick if you're looking for a Barb check though.


Actually a pretty decent scarfer. You beat all the other common scarfers like Boom/Pass with BB, and Indeedee dies too after rocks. If they have a good flying check you can just U-Turn out of there, and it can even act as an emergency Defog user since they forgot to give this thing Close Combat like they did with everything else. Otherwise, just click Brave Bird since base 115 Attack is pretty damn good.


Really good breaker with Choice Specs and surprisingly decent as a Scarf option thanks to it's wide movepool and solid base 80 speed. Decent Sun check, but is kinda shaky against Shiftry and Leafeon. I don't really care for AV since Goodra can make better use of the speed or power from a choice item, but it can work if you really fear Roserade or Vileplume under sun ig. Good mon imo


Makes for an interesting option as a revenge killer with the combination of HDB+Sturdy. It has the coverage to target some key threats and can prevent fat from doing their thing with Taunt. Doesn't really appreciate Sandstorm being everywhere, but I feel this mon has the potential to get better with time, specifically a time when Gigalith isn't so damn important. Its no-nonsense CC off 125 Attack/85 Speed might also make for decent scarf/band sets, but you have a lot of competition in that role, whereas HDB+Sturdy at least ensures that you have a reliable out against certain offensive threats of your choosing.


Ban Aurora Veil, not Barbaracle. The tier has plenty of counterplay to this threat, the issue is that a lot of it is invalidated by Veil reducing damage so significantly and for so little cost that Barb can win trades that it should be losing. For example, with Veil up Gurdurr cannot beat Barb 1v1 where ordinarily it should. This is the pattern with pretty much all would-be checks (Bewear should always win but might no KO because veil, etc etc) and seems to indicate Veil itself is the problem. Without Veil in consideration you've got a pretty large range of options to deal with it tbh. There's the obvious Gastro/Quag for non GK variants (though you can still seriously cripple it with these two in case of GK if at full), then you have stuff like the aforementioned Bewear/Gurdurr, a healthy Vileplume which can OHKO, a healthy Vaporeon which can Haze, Toxicroak, sturdy mons, priority, and some admittedly niche scarfers like Galvantula that can outpace it even after setup. Offensively it feels like most mons outspeed and have a move that threatens the KO, or at least chunks it hard to the point that something else can easily finish it. Idk maybe I'm the odd man out on this one, but I played a ton of ORAS NU where this thing was legal and it never felt overbearing there despite the fact that there was arguably less keeping it in check there than there is here in SS RU. Veil is clearly the issue IMO, and even without Barb I'm sure some other obnoxious mon will start popping up on veil to take it's place.

Anyways that'll do it for my yearly smogon post. Tl;dr ban veil, sigi, drought + chloro (or just drought idc please just kill braindead sun tho), and probably suspect the panda and possibly lazzle too but otherwise this tier has a ton of potential imo.

hhdhhdd.jpg
 
This is a solid looking rapid spinner. Throat chop is a great addition this gen. I don’t find myself struggling with fairy types too much. But :Vileplume: and :shiftry:on sun teams are rough. Would you consider Blaze kick viable vs sun teams? Probably for a LO or Expert belt set. If so, what would you cut?
I wouldn't run Blaze Kick at all. It would only be for chlorophyll Vileplume, and even then that's if it's not Solar Beam which KOs. Mach Punch is fine for Shiftry & you'll never touch Leafeon so, yeah. If you want to deal with sun better, just look at the above post made by Cheryl.
 

Gourgeist-Small @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Power Whip
- Phantom Force
- Pain Split / Leech Seed

Baby Pumpkin sits at a really great speed tier of 99, and thanks to gaining Power Whip this gen it poses a legitimate offensive threat- 85 attack isn't all that impressive but a 120bp STAB backed by Life Orb 2hkos most neutral mons in the tier regardless. Phantom Force then threatens most resists, 1hkoing Sigilyph, Dhelmise, non-max phys Xatu and 2hkoing Rose, Goodra and Drifblim. The issue with Phantom Force is that it can be suicidal if your opponent knows how to play around it, but sub alleviates that by letting you use the move safely and take advantage of people trying to switch around your STABs. Round this off with access to Pain Split or Leech Seed to take advantage of sub and wear down the fat things that eat Power Whips and you have a mon with a great match up vs a lot of teams right now.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1043398668 - Lil Pumpkin breaks apart a Steelix/Xatu core
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1042837236 - Completely breaks a balance team almost single-handedly
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1043387018 - Dismantles webs where only one mon nautrally outspeeds
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1042843222 - Puts in a tonne of work vs Trick Room, of all playstyles.

Also I'm like top 10 on ladder if anyone cares


This set isn't the be-all and end-all of Baby Pumpkin, it has a bunch of interesting tools in its movepool and there's definitely some other stuff it could pull off.
 
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Really good breaker with Choice Specs and surprisingly decent as a Scarf option thanks to it's wide movepool and solid base 80 speed. Decent Sun check, but is kinda shaky against Shiftry and Leafeon. I don't really care for AV since Goodra can make better use of the speed or power from a choice item, but it can work if you really fear Roserade or Vileplume under sun ig. Good mon imo
Just wanted to echo this. This thing can hit like a truck with Specs, basically trading kills vs. sun teams and heavily denting anything that isn't heavily specially defensive. You'd really wish Thunderbolt did more to Vaporeon and Jellicent, but you can't win them all. Definitely give this a shot if you want to add a bit of firepower to your team.

Also I guess I'll take this time to talk about the metagame as a whole (though most of it has probably been said by more qualified people). Gigalith kinda reminds me of Mega Blastoise last gen: a bulky attacker that in theory checks a bunch of the metagame but in practice gets worn down easily (mostly due to how much checking it does in a game). The main difference for me is that Gigalith feels almost mandatory unless you really want your balance team to auto-lose to sun, veil, Sigilyph, or Salazzle. I honestly can't wait until Alpha is over so we can get to cleaning up this mess of a metagame.

It might be a bit too early for speculation of what the metagame will be like post-Alpha, but I feel like offense will still be the dominant playstyle. Getting rid of the problem children won't fix the lack of hazard removers or the power of Ghost-types or the abuse of Sticky Webs. Hazard-stacking will still be powerful, and we will still have plenty of powerful attackers like Goodra, Bewear, Barbaracle, and
Hitmonlee. Once Defog becomes more available via Home,
 

phantom

is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RU Leader
been laddering at the start and playing against a few competent people so i have some thoughts on the hot button topics


I don’t think veil is broken or even that good, at least right now. the mus are inconsistent when you have webs and opposing weather on every other team. sometimes you struggle to even get veil up altogether. It doesn’t help that rime/mime are common and can switch into vanilluxe to clear screens. and while veil does go up against webs, you’re at a serious disadvantage when your main counterplay against opposing offense is stripped away. abomansnow can deal with opposing weather setters, which is nice to have, but the speed tier gives it even less setup opportunities than vanilluxe, and vanilluxe doesn’t exactly fair too well in that regard when it’s slower than most standard offensive mons. In approaching other options, I’ve found dual screens to be a lot more consistent; in particular, it smashes a lot of the gigalith balance teams that otherwise fend off veil. been using froslass with dual screens + taunt. it outspeeds galv and prevents it from getting up webs, so i’ve found it to be a more consistent approach to heavy offense setup.


drought+chlorophyll is a bit of a tricky case. ninetales is more than manageable as an individual mon, but shiftry is kind of nuts to deal with. it doesn’t really have counters beyond setting up opposing weather, although it doesn’t really take hits so applying pressure is a good way to hold it off. drought tends to have inconsistent mus in general i noticed - snorlax, goodra, gigalith, salazzle etc all give it a lot of problems. shiftry isn’t the only viable chlorophyll user though, and others like leafeon and plume can deal with some of the mons shiftry struggles with, so drought doesn’t have definitive counters like it did last gen. the thing that makes me unsure is that using those mons together creates a lot of synergy gaps on the team, so there are times when certain breakers like specs goodra get a kill each time they swap in or offensive gigalith sets do like 70 minimum to the entire team. i think i’d like to see how the meta develops to get a real feel for it, but i’m not convinced it’s problematic yet.


I think what makes sticky web so good is that galvantula is a strong mon as a standalone. it can break a lot of dedicated special walls, has good coverage, and the speed tier to get webs up in exchange for a trade if need be. you don’t have to curtail your team around webs, and i think not doing so is the best way to get the most mileage out of galv. sticky web being as consistent as it is helps too. i think there are enough good ground immune mons (sigi, rotoms, etc) where webs isn’t too problematic and there’s random junk like scarf passimian that really punishes those teams. spinners like boots mimes and dhelmise tend to do okay against webs also. the perception on how good webs is is a bit skewed given how well it performs against cheese teams, but i think when people realize how to punish it, it’ll probably fall off a bit.


I do agree with the general sentiment expressed about gigalith, but i think people aren’t using it as well as they could. defensive spreads are kind of bad since they invite breakers in like pangoro and don’t capitalize off of switches they force from vanilluxe and ninetales too well. they also have the problem of letting barb set up on you if it comes in from full. i’ve found adamant with superpower as coverage to be very solid. it lures in pangoro, which is huge for gigalith teams since they’re often slower. it also lures other stuff like steelvally

252+ Atk Gigalith Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pangoro: 362-428 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Gigalith Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 308-364 (93 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

running speed creep is good given how congested the 20-30 speed tier is, but i’m not giving my numbers. also, i have been seeing a fair bit of gigaplume balance. i think people realize how consistent and antimeta the core is.


the main thing i don’t like too much is pangoro. i think it limits defensive builds way too much and keeps them from being more common. it’s just so punishing if you have anything that lets it swap in, which is a shame since mons like encore sableye are otherwise good counters to barb and sd silvally forms. scrappy cc is pretty brain dead too and can 2hko otherwise decent fight resists like alcremie, silvally fairy, rotom-s etc. with the tier being so fast, pangoro may not look as good as it should, but even in offensive mus it’s capable of trading a 1 for 1 at the very least.

last thing, i’ve been seeing waaaay too many trapinch on the ladder. it’s not that great but if you’re gonna run it, at least run adamant band with max speed and fi so u have better mus against gigalith, steelix, mime/rime, rillaboom, etc. that slow eviolite crap isn’t doing anything.
 

termi

bite the future and fuck the past
is a Tiering Contributor

drought+chlorophyll is a bit of a tricky case. ninetales is more than manageable as an individual mon, but shiftry is kind of nuts to deal with. it doesn’t really have counters beyond setting up opposing weather, although it doesn’t really take hits so applying pressure is a good way to hold it off. drought tends to have inconsistent mus in general i noticed - snorlax, goodra, gigalith, salazzle etc all give it a lot of problems. shiftry isn’t the only viable chlorophyll user though, and others like leafeon and plume can deal with some of the mons shiftry struggles with, so drought doesn’t have definitive counters like it did last gen. the thing that makes me unsure is that using those mons together creates a lot of synergy gaps on the team, so there are times when certain breakers like specs goodra get a kill each time they swap in or offensive gigalith sets do like 70 minimum to the entire team. i think i’d like to see how the meta develops to get a real feel for it, but i’m not convinced it’s problematic yet.
havent played much yet since pre-alpha but i feel it's better to just run tales + shiftry as an offensive core, shiftry with stabs + heat wave + growth doesnt have much in the way of counters (ig gigalith is annoying if u run solar blade) so this core in and of itself does a p good job at breaking shit (especially with garde and first impression mons gone so u dont have to run sucker and cant get revenged very easily). tales should run wisp so it can cripple gigalith and lax imo, np/stab/energy ball hits most of the meta hard enough, psyshock is kinda weak even after a boost and only rly helps with lazzle (which gets 2hko'd by sun-boosted fire blast anyway). aside from that, get urself a rocker (for example, a bulky rhydon so u have a lazzle switchin that isnt gigalith), a goodra switchin (silvally-fairy comes to mind but maybe lax or alcremie could work as well), hazard control, and a scarfer and ur p much set i think.

one thing that might be a good fit on sun rn and seems generally decent is scarf goodra. being able to switch into + outspeed and OHKO threats like lazzle and galvantula seems very valuable.
 
I think that Dhelmise has serious potential as a rapid spinner that can act as a bait to counter the ghost type switch in if you predict it.
Dhelmise @ Assault Vest
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Anchor Shot
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
This is the support set that I run on him. For EVs i decided that his base attack was high enough and instead went for a more special wall build. His speed is already abysmal so I went and gave it sassy to help its insane SpD even more. I don't expect it to out speed much, especially as the ghost bait and the fact that game freak messed up the speeds real bad in swsh Obviously it runs rapid spin, but if you can call a ghost switch in you can easily either anchor shot it to guarantee that it will be killed or you can just hard predict it with a shadow ball if you think you can kill it immediately. Brick break is just there to help with the light screens and reflects, basic support stuff.
Another good option I think would be Eldegoss as it has a higher SpD and speed. However, its move pool is not nearly as good, specifically no good dark or ghost type move to deal with the rapid spin counter. You can run a set on it with light screen, rapid spin, light screen and sleep powder. If you think a ghost is coming just sleep powder then set up your light screen on the switch out. The big advantage this set gets is the broken ability regenerator. Honestly might just be worth it as a special wall with regenerator. I personally prefer the Dhelmise but both are probably fine.
Even if the insanely fast ghosts do dissapear i feel like both of these pokemon have a decent chance at staying relevant. If it does just swap the assault vest for heavy duty boots and just run basic support sets as some of the metas best special walls
 
Turtonator has been my favorite spinner on hyper offense. It beats almost every spinblocker with shell smash and has insane STABs, making it one of the only spinners that doesn't sap momentum for hyper offense teams. Try it out, this mons a beast.

Turtonator @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Rapid Spin
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
 

Feliburn

Trance
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Hey we back at it with another tier experimentation post, this time I wanna talk about some more underrated mons or sets that I feel should get some more shine.


If you have known me for a while, you'll know that whenever possible, I try to fit Toxicroak on my teams because of how good and sick it is. Gen 8 was no different as I've been trying to build with it since day 1. I finally managed to make a working team with it and damn Toxicroak is the most antimeta Pokemon. Thanks to it's STABs it's able to threaten every single pokemon in the tier, in combination with Swords Dance you pretty much beat the common GigaPlume core, Vaporeon, Sigi if you get sucker mindgames right, Pangoro, Dhelmise, Alcremie, Bewear, and every other pokemon you've seen on ladder, maybe not Mudsdale but u catch my drift. No lie, it's hard to fit in teams, however, I've managed to find a lot of opportunities to get SDs up, and even unboosted it's a p threatening pokemon. It makes me p glad such a sick pokemon works so nice rn and I think more people should try to build with it to advance the meta.


Someone already touched on this mon a bit ago but I just wanted to expand on it. Drifblim has been a monster so far, I originally slapped it on my team as a defogger to test it out and it has been the MVP of my team. It has beaten so many mons thanks to the broken WispSap combo, and thanks to Hex you also threaten mons like Xatu and Sigi. Best part is, due to its already huge ammount of HP, I've been able to use a set with max speed and max defense, allowing me to get a burn on mons like Pangoro and Bewear before they try and do danger stuff. I know our removal is pretty awful but this mon offers a fantastic defensive value to the team, making it a really nice choice to the team.


I legit don't know if I'm blindly biased towards this mon but I think it's one of our most useful mons. My best teams usually end up having it as a scarfer cause Passimian just doesn't do it for me most of the time. It's funny how threatening this mon has felt in a Vileplume infested tier, it just shows how much value it brings to the game. I encourage people to try to use this mon from time to time instead of Passimian to see how it fairs, because from my experience it has been phenomenal.


Gastros been a p cute mon so far, I thought I'd try it as a Barbaracle check in conjunction with croak to scout for EQ or Grass Knot variants but damn this thing is bulkier than it looks like. I think my best feats with it have been PP stalling an Alcremie with Gastro Acid, and then beating a Galarian Rapidash with the same move. It's a very decent pick for a water type.

That's about it I think. I kinda lost my drive to continue experimenting cause we got hit with the DLC meta announcement (we gonna name it IACT RU or what????) but I still enjoy being forced to use mons I wouldn't have considered in the past.
 
:eiscue:
Eiscue @ Salac Berry
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Endure
- Icicle Crash
- Reversal

This Pokemon is such a bad gimmick, I love it. This set makes it an even worse gimmick, but it's much better than the SubBD set imo. It takes so much to get it in the position to set-up and win, but it's so satisfying when you do pull it off. I opted for Endure+Reversal over Sub and Liquidation so that at least you have a way to hit Vaporeon that isn't a paper ball. Also, Endure into Reversal allows you to pull things off, like this:
252 Atk Eiscue Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
when you would never touch it otherwise. Obviously, it doesn't like hazards up, especially Webs, and it really can't do much damage pre-BD and your opponent might not even fall for the gimmick. IMO, you have to be aggressive with Eiscue in order to get Ice Face to trigger, so that you can get the speed boost. 130 Speed is hella fast, and even though you're attack is weak, you're going to be scaring out frailer stuff.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1045493827 Go to turn 39 to see Eiscue take out a weakened Escavalier.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1045479016 The only Eiscue sweep I managed to pull off. Funnily enough, this was also my first time using Eiscue.


:turtonator:
Echoing Wapf 's thoughts, Turtonator is a pretty nice offensive spinner, although Fire Blast > Flamethrower because its pretty weak even with SpAtk investment. It isn't instantly scared out by spinblockers like Rotom and Silvally-Ghost, being able to take an unboosted hit before either attacking back or setting up. It is decently consistent in what it does and can somewhat check Escavalier for teams that struggle with it, although it really hates losing its Boots. It synergises pretty well with Vaporeon too, being able to take a Grass or Electric move while you Wish it back up. By no means spectacular, but definitely fun to use.

:rillaboom:
Not much to say, but I do like the fact that it is faster than Passimian and can hit just as hard. Wood Hammer + Knock Off is annoying to switch into, U-turn gives easy momentum and you can opt to run EQ for Salazzle and Roserade or Superpower just to guarantee bop Pangoro and Snorlax if you really want :P.

I'm enjoying the meta, but there is definitely a lot of cheese strats running about that is kind of unfun to play against. Sun is the most consistent by far since Gigalith isn't particularly fond of Grass types, while Webs and Veil are just annoying to face. Balance is pretty good and Stall is dead. Otherwise, fun meta.
 
So Sillvally is really good this gen. No one can deny that The Multi-Attack buff and Dexit cuts were really kind to it, and this thing definitely has a place in the tier. Allow me to gush about the two forms I've been having most fun/success with.

Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- U-turn
- Filler

This thing is probably one of if not the best spinblockers in the tier. It's one of the fastest Ghost-types in the tier, only being outsped by Froslass, Drakloak (kek), and Gourgeist-Small. This means that it has the capacity to beat other spinblockers. Base 95 Attack isn't too spectactular, but with a 120 STAB Attack + plenty of opportunities to get up a Swords Dance, it can definitely make due. SD lets it break through bulkier Pokemon. Multi-Attack because duh. U-turn can let it pivot out of a bad match-up, and I use it over Parting Shot because it both takes advantage of SD and prevents me from getting blown up by Defiant Passimian. The last move is really up to whatever you need, as it only really needs Multi-Attack to function properly (You'd really wish this thing got Fighting-coverage, but oh well). I've been rocking Explosion as a big red button I can push when Sillvally gets too low or I'm in danger of getting swept. Double-Edge could also be used if you don't want to kill yourself immediately. Flamethrower/Heat Wave with a Hasty/Naive nature gets a harder hit on Steelix even after a SD. Psychic Fangs might be good as a last-ditch effort to get rid of Aurora Veil. Overall, 10/10, very spooky.

Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Flamethrower
- Psychic Fangs

Basically does the same thing as Silvally-Ghost, but its pink now. This set gets the chance to set up on different targets. Sillvally-Ghost gets Bewear, Vileplume, and Passimian, while Sillvally-Fairy gets Pangoro, Goodra, and ... Passimian. In all seriousness, this one gets to break walls while patching up different holes in your team. Not too much say on this one, as its similar to the previous one. U-turn could be run over Flamethrower, but then Steelix comes in for free (which isn't actually that bad depending on your team.)

Also quick shoutout to Vengeance417's Sillvally-Ground set. I haven't gotten the chance to play around with it too much, but it looks super fun and like a sleeper hit.

In summary, Sillvally is a god (well not literally but you get the idea).
 
I've been playing on and off with a semistall team with moderate success and a mon I haven't seen mentioned much (aside from Nerrad) is Eldegoss:

Eldegoss (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Aromatherapy
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder

Physically defensive because I needed a EQ switch in and Goss has sufficient special bulk as is. The best part about it is the role compression, honestly. If you're running a more defensive team and need a cleric and spinner in one, it works. Regen is amazing as well, letting you stay in on some lighter SE hits to attempt a clutch Sleep Powder (if it lands, lol) and switch out and not be too crippled.

A few problems with it, though. For one, this thing's offensive movepool is trash, your only options outside of Grass STAB being Pollen Puff, Hyper Voice and maybe a weather influenced Weather Ball. As a result, it kinda sucks against spin blockers outside of Runerigus and Jellicent (unless you run Leech Seed over Aromatherapy to wear them down, but you would need another teamslot for a cleric and you lose to Gourgeist regardless). Another issue due the lacking coverage is not presenting a threat to non-Grass weak mons outside of Sleep Powder, which tends to lead to it only really being able to come in, spin/Aromatherapy and gtfo if the opponent has a Grass type themselves.

Again, it's not terrible, but needs support to circumvent the problems it invites in.


Gastrodon is pretty good. Blank checking nearly every Water and Electric type in the tier is great and it can also switch into Grounds and Rocks with relative ease if you run a Phyiscally Defensive or Mixed Defensive set. Add in Clear Smog to stop things like BU Shed Skin Scrafty and you have a mon that is never really dead weight, if a bit scared by the tiers various good Grass types.

Gastrodon-East (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Def / 200 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Clear Smog
- Recover

This is the set I'm currently running. EV's are based a bit on the defensive set from the previous gen, but geared more towards Physical defense because fuck Barb. EV's can probably be better optimized, but it's Alpha rn so that seems a bit pointless, tbh. Ice Beam can be used if you really hate Grass switch ins, but since you probably won't OHKO (most of them have at least decent special bulk bar Flapple) and be forced out due being slower, I'm iffy on that. EQ and a Relaxed nature might be worth looking into for a stronger hit on Gigalith in sand (maybe, I haven't calc'd it).


Toxic Spikes are almost worthless, by the by. Salazzle is fucking everywhere and SubToxic is it's most common set from what I've seen (still loses to Giga if you run Rock Blast and it decides to hit, so there's another notch for the overgrown heat rock). Even outside of that, Roserade and Vileplume are used a good chunk as well, so Tspikes are dead for the time being unless you run Trapinch...which loses to all the relevant Poison types (even Garbodor if it decides to run Seed Bomb to avoid being set up fodder for Barb).

Can't wait for the meta to be split in half with the dlc, rendering all this theorymonning moot.
 
I'm new to RU and won't pretend to be good at it but this is a set I've had a lot of fun with

Arctovish.png

Arctovish @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Icicle Crash
- Iron Head
- Psychic Fangs

This set essentially lets you take a few hits from the majority of SpA threats and threaten with a considerable amount of damage from Icicle Crash. Fishious Rend is useful despite Arctovish's poor speed due to it naturally outspeeding the ever popular Gigalith, and covers switch-ins well. Psychic Fangs helps to remove Aurora Veil if need be, too.

I hesitate to call the set 'good' due to its weakness to Rocks, Boltund, & Gallade primarily, but I think Arctovish as a whole is a mon that might be better than it seems at face value (especially once Slush Rush is available).
 

Zneon

CHRISTINA
is a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor
Hi people. So I have been playing around in RU for a little bit so I want to share a mon that isn't good but really fun and rewarding to use if you pull it off.


Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flamethrower
- Surf

This is a really fun thing I like to use. As much as I love Slurpuff I cannot deny that this is not really a good pokemon in RU. However it can be somewhat threatening in the right hands by abusing a CM + Unburden set to perform as a niche late-game sweeper. Flamethrower is to hit stuff like Roserade and Vileplume and potentially killing them if you get enough boosts, and Surf is really good for a set like this, as it can punish the would-be counter Salazzle. I think the mon can really get going once its checks/counters, which is why I think it should only be used late-game for that reason.

Anyway, this meta is incredibly fun and I have love playing every minute of it, and I am excited to see how the meta changes in the next going months!
 
unfezant this gen is pretty dangerous its access to brave bird has really improved its offenses . It might be ban worthy for its sheer power alone
but it lacks and fighting type moves to actually be a ban worthy bird . its choice band set and defog sets are really good .
Unfezant (Unfezant) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Super Luck
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn

this defog set is really good at tanking its very good at basically walling even dugtrio's rockslide does very low damage making it a wall . but sadly special attackers really kill it and if it comes across other walls it can still punch a hole in them doing decent damage with minimal investment . this set is really good for a support mon since it can do really well against a lot of low power mons it come in on walls and defog U-turn and send in a set up sweeper or offensive mon . its a defogger that threaten other defogger's of the tier it deserves to stay in ru this gen as a very good defogger .

Unfezant @ Choice Band
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Steel Wing
- Facade
- U-turn

this choice band set is a complete nuke it hits like a truck even by ou standards its feared . unless they are running tyranitar or any high resist mon or basically anything that can out speed it . this bulldozer should not be under estimated it does like 75% to 90% to ferrothorn it does the same to toxapex . anything that doesn't resist it drops like a fly this set is boosted by the fact that it has super luck it boost its crit ratio making it even more dangerous as a kamikaze. its weaknesses are obvious its out classed by every bird with fighting type moves and its not really that fastest thing in the world .

unfezant analysis completed .
 
Last edited:

Tuthur

海贼王波波
is a Pre-Contributor
Hi,

After playing a bit the tier, I'd like give some thoughts on the current meta.
1579425894236.png
I mainly used two versions of the same team to climb the ladder:
1579426030249.png
1579426018270.png
The first thing that I noticed while playing is that almost nobody is prepared for :sableye:.
Sableye really appreciate the lack of Toxic which allows it to pivot very easily onto most walls like Mudsdale and Gigalith. Also thanks to Encore, Sableye is even better than last gen at checking physical setup since it can lock them into their setup move and most of them fails to 2HKO Sableye. Sableye also has a really good typing allowing it to beat Bewear, Passimian, Machamp and Snorlax just to name a few. Prankster WoW also it to beat very strong wallbreaker that could possibly 2HKO it such as Silvally-Fairy or Choice Band Rillaboom. If you struggle with setup spam or Aurora Veil you should probably give a shot to :sableye:.
252 Atk Passimian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 90-106 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 135-160 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Silvally-Ghost Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk burned Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band burned Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 123-146 (40.5 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I also got surprised that :flareon: isn't on the RU Viability list. Flareon is able to wall a very strong part of the special attackers and is one of the few Wish Passer available in the tier outside of Vaporeon and Aromatisse. While it has smaller Wish and is less bulky than them, Flareon is far less passive than them thanks to 130 Base Attack, which allows it to 2HKO Sigilyph unlike Vap's Scald and Aromatisse's Moonblast. Flareon is also able to wall stuffs like Roserade and boosted Ninetales unlike them. Sure Water, Rock and Ground weaknesses suck for Flareon but specially offensive Water-, Rock- and Ground-type are uncommon. I'm not saying Flareon is better than Vaporeon (spoiler: it's not), but it definitely has a niche.
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 109-130 (32.7 - 39%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 97-115 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 5.7% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 177-208 (53.1 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 127-151 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 130-153 (39 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Rotom-Fan Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 85-102 (25.5 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 195-231 (68.4 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
:drifblim: is very bad. Strength Sap is extremely bad on Pokemon with so much HP, it is almost as bad as Life Dew. Every time I use Drifblim it ends up walling nothing and just Defog once. Drifblim's movepool and typing are great, but its stats are just to bad. It has to many weakness to common stuffs like Rotom, Gigalith, Barbaracle, Silvally-Ghost, Pangoro...
252 SpA Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Drifblim: 168-198 (38 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Passimian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 230-272 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Drifblim: 220-261 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
 
OU has been pretty restricting and boring to build and play around, so I decided to experiment with these fun and underrated sets.

5CCA515A-8A10-465F-9C59-B87C1727C524.gif


Sigilyph @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Shift
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Roost

This set is meant to cripple its usual switch ins like Gigalith, Vullaby, and Goodra by spreading poison. It also lets it be immune to Sleep Powder from Roserade and Vileplume, or paraysis. It’s obviously not as powerful as LO Roost + Three Attacks, but it provides nice utility while maintaining offensive pressure.

E9512A54-4B6B-44E4-8F1F-480F3F419362.gif


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

I was tired of being constantly walled by Vileplume, Rade, and Goodra, so I decided to run a more offensive twist to the classic WishPass set while maintaining enough bulk. Hydro Pump hits like a truck from that maxed out base 110SpA stat. Ice Beam 2HKOs/OHKOs most bulky grasses. This set fits more reliably with BO, while not being setup bait for CM Sigilyph and the Silvallys.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1049209055
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Sigilyph @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Shift
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Roost

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Rillaboom @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drum Beating
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- U-turn

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Body Press

Silvally-Fairy @ Fairy Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Fire Fang
- Parting Shot

Turtonator @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Shell Smash
 

zio

everything is funny in retrospect
is a Pre-Contributor
I really have been enjoying RU and I wanted to talk about some mons.


Aromatisse is a really solid mon which can provide support or become a tank to be reckoned with. It's a great wish passer and has a solid niche over Vaperon with Fairy typing and ability to clean with CM. CM is really what makes it notable over Vaperon. Very little is able to break an Aromatisse and while chipping away is a viable option the thing can easily get out of hand and deal a lot of damage before going down. It's an excellent wincon since once steels and poisons are gone little stands in its way. And even outside of CM it provides great support with Wish and most notably checking Pangoro(assuming you aren't in Gunk Shot range.)

-Talking about both these things at the same time since they have the same goal, abuse Fishous Rend/Zap Zolt. Playing with these things is a hassle. 55 spd is atrocious even with a scarf they still fail to outspeed Salazzle or anything faster. On top of that, 90/100 atk is not great and even with doubled damage they usually fail to secure KOs. They function as late game sweepers once things that resist and outspeed them are gone.
-Arctozolt especially struggles to find a niche. Ground types are running rampant and Electric/Ice is an awful typing and it's basically forced to run a choice item to attempt to make something of its lackluster stats.
-Arctovish has better luck. Most common grass types are Rilaboom and Roserade and while break Rilaboom may be a tough sell most variants of Roserade get 2hko'd even w/ scarf Rend making switching in difficult. Gastrodon also stops you dead in your tracks however Arctovish can put in work much more consistently than Arctozolt with a better typing.
-Great partners are Roserade and Vanilluxe. Roserade can switch in and threaten water/ground types while also setting up either spike. Vanilluxe can lure in Gastrodon w/ Freeze Dry, although Roserade is probably a better choice overall.

Runerigus is an awesome pick in the current meta. Ground/Ghost is a surprisingly useful typing. Notable things about Runerigus are stopping the ever-popular Hit group of fighting types from spinning, being able to scare out Xatu to set up SR, and an outrageous 145 defense w/ a serviceable 95 attack. Even w/ its bad 58 hp its defense more than makes for it allowing it to be a great physical wall w/ a scary EQ. I recommend this mon as a rocker as it can both set and spinblock.

RU is shaping up to be a pretty fun tier this gen and I hope to play it a ton in the future.
 
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