Team deathstar OU with CRADILLY

[george182]

COMPLTELY RE-DONE, IM JUST NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE A NEW RMT THREAD SO I EDITED THIS ONE.

This is a team with some good basic sandstorm grounds, with some HGSS abuse that just needs a some good rates to finish it off, so lets get straight into the team building, feel free to skip it. After a few rates and some changing around it has become a destructive force in OU and just needs a little bit more tweeking to get it right, thanks to all the raters so far, enjoy!

Empoleon destroys oponent leads, while hippowdon sets up the sand and walls physical attacks like the was no tomorrow, cradily sets up and sweeps the OU tear, gengar revneg kills the troublesome pokes and Jirachi shows her self as the best special sweeper in OU, possibly best sweeper in OU she is deadly.


The team is typical me, semi bulky, semi sandstorm stall kinda and split into an offensive and defensive core:

Defensive core:

....

....

Walls .............Walls................Walls
Physical............Both...............Special

Offensive core:

- A lead
- a special scarfer
- a set up sweeper



THE TEAM IN DEPTH:

Anti Lead Empoleon @ shucca berry
Torrent
Rash
- Hydro pump
- Aqua jet
- Grass knot
- Ice beam
The idea here is that most teams lead with a stealth rocker and empoleon can OHKO oposing leads before they can set up stealth rocks, as they normaly try to taunt empoleon or take her out with a strong earthquake, Hydro pump 2hko's metagross who hopefully will EQ me. Grass knot OHKO's swampert. Ice beam OHKO's gliscor, salamence and anti lead dragonit etc, hydro pump OHKO's heatran who may try to earth power me. With a shucca berry empoelon can come out the lead spot 6-5 up and over half her health left, making her very effective mid game as well. If not she is always good death fodder to give gengar a free switch in. She is also a good back up to gyrados and salamence, as with a shucca berry she can live ther EQ's and OHKO salamence with ice beam and do a nice chunk to gyrados with grass knot. Also when low on health she can utalise torrent and hydro pump to put some pain even on blissey and aqua jet does quite a bit some foes with a torrent boost aswell. Rash nature boost the power of aqua jet. I may try surf, but that only has a 48% chance to 2hko metagross, while hydro pump has a 64% chance to (its the chance of missing).

Hippowdon @ Lefties
Ability: Sandstream
Nature: Impish
EV's: 252 hp, 168 def, 88 sp.def
Moves:
- Earthquake
- Slack off
- Stealth rocks
- Toxic
Hippowdon acts much like a lead swampert but with better defence, the ability sandstream and instant recovery slackoff, but its at the cost of a secondary water type. So first I stealth rock, as soon as Im safe from taunters, I will then gengerally toxic or switch out, depending on there choice of move. The ev's, give him enough defence to take physical hits all day and the sp.def ev's although may seem pointless as no one uses boah anymore, they allow me to take some no specs dracco meteors and other sp.atks with 202 sp.def and 420 hp.

Cradilly @ leftovers
Careful
suction cups (can't roar me)
Ev's: 252 hp, 160 defence, 96 sp.def
- Curse
- Recover
- Rock slide
- Eq

Cradilly is amazing, she is capable of tearign through many teams which are just unprepared for her, her ability to set up 2 curses and sweep is just unbelievable, then she can switch out of status/trick users and set up later. A good way of removing status burden is to get paralised early game and then become imune to even sleep, or switch in to one layer of toxic spikes as cradilly is just so easy to set up and so easy to sweep with, the great coverage of quake slide tears through teams, and recover is great. Snorlax was the old standard curses, however, recover, suction cups, beter type coverage may just make cradilly the NO.1 curser and very close, if not already better than suicune due to suction cups. Cradilly is here to rip open the midgame and possibly sweep the oponents whole team, her ease of set up and the ability to beat scizor after one curse is just great, main fears are CB metagroos, trickscarf and toxic/burn although I have swept with both status' afflictions they greatly hinder cradilly.

Gyrados @ leftovers
Impish (wtf)
Ev's: 252 hp, 224 defence, 32 attack
- Waterfall
- T-wave (wtf)
- Rest
- Sleep talk

Bassically gyrados is here to counter, mence, gyrados, lucario, heatran etc with thunderwave. Also has paraflinch, and no ground type will absorb my t-wave. Whislt doing that, he can rest talk to absorb status, make him a good blissey counter and rest helps take the pressure from stealth rocks away. Gengarally he abuses intimidate to make foes easier to beat for him or the team, t-wave makes him a viable counter to many pokes, includign lucario, gyrados and mence and ensure that gengar will outspeed them, then with waterfall he can abuse parflinch for soem great results, and cradilly can also abuse paraflinch (before it curses). Best thing is that no one expects this set and has a great surprise factor. This gyrados sorta completes my teams type coverage countering truoblesome pokes and may seem like a gimmick set but is tailord to fit my team, and t-wave helps jirachi (sub parastall), aggron (faster) and cradilly (para curse stall).

Gengar@choice scarf
Modest
252 speed, 252 sp.atk
- Shadow ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus blast
- Trick

Gengar is my second non SS helper, he revenge kills trouble pokes e.g. dd gyrados, and tricks his scarf onto walls e.g. calm mind cune and just gengarally destroys pokes the rest of my team can't handle purley through reveng killing, he can also block a rapid spin, as a team that wants to rapid spin generally has a stealth rock weakness, so blocking there spin is normally benifical. Also Jirachi is capable of beating Blissey 1vs1 so once blissey is gone, most teams will loose there anser to gengar and with gyrados support, this gengar makes an effective back up sweeper in the late game with 394 sp.atk, and 472 speed, he can destroy teams without a scizor.

The STAR of the show (bad pun intended):

Death star @ lefties
Ability: serene grace
Nature: timid
Ev's: 252 hp, 176 speed, 80 sp.atk
Moves:
- Substitute
- Calm mind
- Flash cannon
- Thunderbolt

Jirachi is probably the best sub calm minder, with 101 subs and ressitance to bullet punch, with base 100 defences and decent speed, Jirachi can easilly set up 6 calm minds on many sp.atkers and physical ones if I have a relfect up. She also has the unpredicatabultiy as most people expect a physical Jirachi. There is soo much to right about this set, that ill just leave it to the set explanation to smogon, which I would say is well worth reading http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jirachi. Jirachi fits in well for my team as she's imune to sandstorm, can make great use of a layer of toxic spikes, has some decent type coverage as well as resiting physchic attacks aimed at gengar and tentacruel and ice aimed at hippowdon and cradily. Many teams are unable to deal with Jirachi due to toxic spikes and its unpredicatbiltiy, so as long as it sets up it usualy leads to GG as it can 2hko pert when at plus 6, who will fear phychic so it won't switch in. This set has pulled me from 1-6, 1-0 and is just such a good sweeper that after settign up only fears roar froma swampert. With the teams re-arranging I've been wondering if phsychic is more apropriate over flash cannon and it is mroe powerful which will be useful for blissey. I just can't belive how effective Jirachi is at gettign to plus 6, settign a sub up and sweeping, so many teams don't have an effective counter, and the one that do can be scouted early game destroyed and then there will be no one, even swampert is 2hkoed when im at plus six and he doens't come near to 2hkoing me.


So thanks for reading, I've put alot of time into make the team and I'd appreciate it if you put allot time into rating it, once again thanks and please rate, last glance:

Just remeber aggron is the weak link, but anything can go in that slot and all raters bellow are rating the old team, so ignore them up to the 24 hour bumb by me , thanks for reading please rate

 

[KnightoftheWind]

You're rather Rotom-A weak, as it cripples most of your team with by Tricking Choice Scarf and it also walls most of your team as well. The only Pokemon that can really deal with it effectively is Gengar, who can't switch-in at the risk of being KOed or crippled, meaning you have to sacrifice a Pokemon to bring Gengar in safely.

I suggest replacing Gengar with a Choice Scarf Heatran. It is a great switch-in to Rotom and with a moveset of Fire Blast / Earth Power / Dragon Pulse / HP Electric, if can do everything Gengar can do without easily being taken out by Scizor.

Now that Gengar is gone, put Leftovers over Black Sludge on Tentacruel. Whilst Black Sludge can harm TrickScarfers, they can easily Trick it onto Hippowdon or Cradily, which they won't like. Leftovers alleviates that problem. Use Seed Bomb over Rock Slide on Cradily too. Since Cradily is supposed to be dealing with Jirachi's counters, eliminating Swampert is paramount for Cradily's job, since Swampert is a common Jirachi counter. The only drawback is being walled by most Dragons, who are dealt with by Bronzong.

Good luck with your team.

 

[DJXO9]

I think you have your Gengar over-stressed. Right now, you're pretty weak to Swampert and Latias, especially Latias because of Levitate allowing it to avoid Toxic Spikes. While Gengar does do a lot of damage to either of them, you're relying on him to much. If you do replace Gengar with Heatran, you do lose the Rotom-A weakness, but Latias and Swampert are still pretty big, especially because the are two of the best checks possible for CMrachi.

So, I'm thinking instead of Choice Scarf Gengar, to try Choice Scarf Latias. This Latias can OHKO most any Rotom-A with Draco Meteor, but you also can a check against other Latias and Swampert. The important thing is that both Latias and Rotom-A can OHKO you, so you must be careful so as you don't switch in on a Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse or a Shadow Ball.

I would try out both Heatran and Latias, see what you like better. Heatran does a better job taking out Rotom-A, while Latias can take out things like Swampert and other Latias, even though you need to be cautious in handling them.

Edit: Heatran is also a big counter to Jirachi, which is also handled by Latias. Jirachi's main attack is 4x resisted by Heatran, and Heatran can tank right through a Thunderbolt. Also, why not go Light Clay over Lefties on Bronzong? I like the use of dual screens here, but that is his main objective, and you might as well go with Light Clay for those 3 extra turns of half damage, which could be crucial in setting up with Jirachi.

 

[george182]

Cradiliy can just curse up in the face of pert not even fearing the non existant specs pert, but im testing seed bomb.

You have both noticed a stress on gengar, latias only offers the same role of revenge killer but with more weaknesses including ice and looses the fighting imunity and can be extreame speeded, while heatran brings in a bad ground weakness at the cost of loosing a ground imunity and fighting imunity for weakness. I have tested both before, and heatran would requre some major team arranging. The ground weakness is the problem I have had aswell.

For heatran to come in gyrados would have to swap with tentacruel and toxic spikes would be lost. I have found that scizor draws in rotom with u-turn and then gengar can but rotom on the back foot, and scarf rotom may stay in thinking he is faster.


Thanks for rating seed bomb is being used, but heatran and latias create more problems thans they solve.

Edit: note to J0son bellow you have obviuosly neaver used sleep talk cardilly, because everyone who has used it knows that it sucks:
1. In terms of recovery it is not better, rest is 100% every 3 turns (rest, plus 2 sleep turns) which equals 33% recovery per turn, while recover is 50% per turn, so recover allow you to heal off more powerful attacks.

2. rest requires sleep talk, which uses up a movelsot and is very unreliable, while recover lets u attack freely whenever you want, wiht better coverage.

3. rest makes you set up fodder for salamence of lucario, due to four times resitance to seed bomb/rock slide and it also makes u set up fodder for allot of other sweepers in OU, for rock slide, it allows fighting, steel and ground types to set up, while seed bomb allows dragons, flying types, grass types, poisen types, and I can think of one sweeper from each of these types capable of setting up on cradilly.

4. It does have the advanatge of removing status, which is normal easy to see comming and full toxic can be ovoided by siwthching into 1 turn of toxic spikes, or thunderwave can remove this status weakeness, and I have a status absorber already, called tentacruel.

Edit: for magnezone bronzong can just set up light screen, thne explode, then jirachi can set up, or cradilly can

 

[j05son]

I know you have a sleeptalker in Tentacruel, but have you tried a similar set with Cradily?

Rest
Sleep Talk
Curse
Rock Slide/Seed Bomb

You would have an arguably better recovery method with all HP regained plus status removed. This should allow more curses making you more of an all around wall and really power up your STAB move of choice.

EDIT:
Well, it appears there were some posts that were deleted, but to respond anyways, DJX09, Cradily can't be phazed do to it's ability. Plus TC (topic creator) has checks on his team for Swampert with Rotom-C taking neutral to ice/water and OHKO with leaf storm. Swampert won't last long if Tentacruel lays toxic spikes. Plus Bronzong can eliminate it with explosion if need be.

If anything, the biggest downfall to what I suggested would be the loss of Earthquake in which TC stated he used to defeat Infernape.

Without Earthquake, you won't OHKO the ape without a curse.

Damage calculations: (Cradily vs Infernape)
Based on Infernape running 0 HP EV's (96% run no HP EV) and a neutral def nature.

Rock Slide (no curse, after CC def drop) 61-72% (180-213dmg).
Earthquake (no curse, after CC def drop) 108-128% (OHKO on lowest dmg roll).
Rock Slide (with 1 curse, after CC def drop) 92-108% (270-318dmg) (assuming you were able to get a curse before the ape switched in)

Plus consider that Infernape will take 6% dmg in sand, 10% from LO (25% of apes run focus sash, so assuming they are leads, 56% of the remaining 75% run LO), plus stealth rocks and/or toxic spikes (if you have them down) should counter the ape fine.

Losing earthquake would also effect heatran and metagross, but you should be able to wall tran and curse up (barring explosion), and should be able to handle gross with hippo or zong (if you add quake on zong which can also hit a magnezone switch in which would totally fuck you).

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hey there, this is an interesting team, but there are some suggestions I want you to try out. First of all, I would consider using Wish over Substitute on Jirachi. Wish-Calm-Mind-2 Attacks Jirachi was popularized by Jumpluff and Earthworm, and is really a fantastic Pokemon as it survives much longer than Substitute Calm Mind Rachi does. The main bonus is that it can also pass Wishes to the other Pokemon on your team, granting your team much more overall survivability.

If you decide to go for Wish on Jirachi, then I would suggest changing Tentacruel to a standard utility Pokemon. I would go for a set of Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, Hidden Power Electric, and Surf, a Calm nature, and an EV spread of 252 Hp / 120 Def / 136 SpD (item Leftovers). Tentacruel no longer needs RestTalking because Jirachi can keep it healthy through Wish, so this set becomes an option. Rapid Spin is a blessing on any team, and Tentacruel is a prime cantidate to use it. Hidden Power Electric provides you with a secondary counter to Dragon Dance Gyarados and a pretty flawless counter to SubPetaya Empoleon (who is actually a huge threat to your team as he outspeeds even ScarfGengar after an Agility).

I feel like you are currently relying on Gengar to check too many threats. For that reason I suggest changing him to Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is a secondary sweeper for this team, and is capable of opening up a huge gap in the opposing team for Jirachi to sweep. He is especially skilled at killing steel-types, Pokemon that Jirachi may struggle with. I suggest a set of Dragon Dance, Crunch, Stone Edge, and Fire Punch, a Jolly nature, and a spread of 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (item Lum Berry of Babiri Berry). Crunch and Stone Edge are a powerful STAB duo taking care of many top threats, and Fire Punch kills steel types. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Timid Jolteon after a Dragon Dance. Lum Berry is a good item choice for blocking status and getting a free Dragon Dance, but Babiri berry can be used if you really fear Scizor. The only problem with making this change is that you are more vulnerable to Swords Dance Lucario; if this is really worrying you, then feel free to stick with Gengar or use Scarf Tyrnaitar instead. If using ScarfTar then stick with the same set, but use Aqua Tail or Earthquake instead of Dragon Dance.

It may seem dumb to use both TTar and Hippowdon on the same team, but honostly, Tyranitar would be so fabulous on this team that I couln't pass it up. Hope I helped, and good luck! ;)

 

[george182]

THE BUMP

REMEBER TEAM HAS HAD MAJOR CHANGES SO ALL RATES ABOVE THIS ARE OUT OF DATE.

PLEASE RATE

 

[MrIndigo]

Personally, I feel like the CB Aggron set is better performed by Tyranitar; Rock Polish Aggron is much more effective, I feel.

Wish is more the norm on CalmMind Jirachi over Substitute, these days.

 

[george182]

Personally, I feel like the CB Aggron set is better performed by Tyranitar; Rock Polish Aggron is much more effective, I feel.

Wish is more the norm on CalmMind Jirachi over Substitute, these days.

Substitute blocks paralysis from blissey, which is becoming more popular than toxic these days. Substitute allows you to just outstall so many pokes and it blocks critical hits, it also helps you gain more lefties if they can't break your sub. In al my battles i havnt really found a need for wish, but subsitute has the surprise factor as no one knows your set and will try to wil o wips/t-wave you and let you get in enough calm minds, also with a substitute up Jirachi is capable of ignoring priority, although she resist bullet punch, ectreame speed and ice shard and sub prevents succer punch prediction problems. Honestly I don't need wish I have enough recovery already.

Hmm, t-tar is an option, are you suggesting a banded t-tar or a dragon dancer?

personally I feel rock polish aggron sucks, he doesn't have the power to OHKO anything bulky and with weaknesses to moves carried by every team he is easilly OHKOed back by water, fighting or ground. And in the time he uses rock polish a salamence can use dragon dance, or a lucario can use sword dance. Remember aggrons attack is only 350 max.

I'll test CB tyranitar im also testing metagross, what do people think, if t-tar came in hippodon could switch to som1else? agility metagross could also we useful, perhaps with leftovers to help sweep early game and still be able to switch out. Empoleon seems great for that spot but I would need some advice on a set, (perhaps lead, can stop pert and pokes getting there rocks up?)

EDIT: thanks to Mrindigo bellow, t-tar is going well im also testing a lead empoelon that can preent lead sform gettign rocks up and help gyrados out a bit more. But t-tar seems a strong option that helps take the stress off gengar, thanks for the rate. Ill update the thread when I've got time

 

[MrIndigo]

Choice Band Tyranitar was what I was referring to.

And Rock Polish Aggron works well in the lategame; almost nothing can switch into Head Smash off +1 attack, and the possiblity of having a Sub up. With Sandstorm, his water weakness isn't a huge problem anyway.

That said, CBTyranitar would probably work well. Hippowdon probably doesn't want replacement, it is a reliable Stall lead that does pretty much everything you want it to.

 

[george182]

Choice Band Tyranitar was what I was referring to.

And Rock Polish Aggron works well in the lategame; almost nothing can switch into Head Smash off +1 attack, and the possiblity of having a Sub up. With Sandstorm, his water weakness isn't a huge problem anyway.

That said, CBTyranitar would probably work well. Hippowdon probably doesn't want replacement, it is a reliable Stall lead that does pretty much everything you want it to.

T-tar hasn't worked to well with my team and bassical is the same as aggron really, but with a scizor weakness, less defence and higher sp.def. I feel scizor could be more useful.

Ok, well specs empoleon can fill that role quite well, or a sword dance empoleon and empoleon has great synergy with my team. But im currently using lead empoleon.