Team Last Stand

[Freak of Nature]

Ok I know I just made a new team because I didn’t feel the team synergy, and I brought this one to the table because of my lack of a dragon counter. Once again all suggestions are requested.
This team was started wanting a tank, a special sweeper, wish support, Dragonite, and two more sweepers that fit the synergy. So after some time and consideration, this is what I put together. (Note that the comments before their names aren’t nicknames, just things that sounded good at the time :P

I read this just a few minuites ago and it seemed boring to other rmts, so I am adding to it =)

Please view my team concerns at the bottom, which is more or less my reason for putting this review up: thank you :)


Team at a broad look:

For the closer look:

​

Opening Lead and Tank: Metagross
Ability: Clear Body
Item: Occa Berry(fire type resistance)
Nature: Impish
Evs: 200 HP/ 232 Atk / 32 Spe / 44 SpD

~Meteor Mash
[The main sweeping move. Stab helps and this plus EQ makes a good combo]
~Earthquake
[Good combo with Meteor Mash. Not much else to say.]
~Stealth Rock
[This is tricky. The team could use light screen but Stealth rock would have to replace Explosion. Help needed]
~Bullet Punch
[this is over explosion because when I need to explode I am just to slow and get knocked out. Bullet punch removes sashers]

Description: Metagross is a great lead for my team. He has great resistance that happens to be Draogonite’s weakness, so if I can predict an ice beam coming my way he is the perfect switch in. He is also my tank, being a steel type. Plus his extreme attack, make a unique tank.

M gross however has trouble with fire. So my new stragy will be to swich immediately, have no harm. I'll bring out Vaporeon/Empoleon or Gyarados and knock them out. I f the next guy them send in doesn't like Metagross, I will switch in and gets rocks up.

Evs: Pretty simple, bulk, but the speed is to out speed an 80 Speed EV Tyranitar and knock it out.

Team work: Great backup for Dragonite, and something that can make a nice tank.

With my new stragey, Metagross can be used as a late game wall to physical sweepers who I resist. Earthquake does pretty good in combo with Meteor Mash due to all of the flying types in the Ou. His synergy is pretty nice, great with Dragonite, who is my main guy. I choose him for this spot because of his typing, and hiss outageous base stats.

Fire and ground problems can be redirected to…

The bulk of the Sea: Gyarados

Ability: Intimidate
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

~Stone Edge
[Great coverage, great for pesky fire types that Metagross despises.]

~Dragon Dance
[Necessary for setting up, after this I’m almost unstoppable]

~Waterfall
[Great stab, plus after dragon dance it is a wonder]

~Ice Fang (changed by myself off)
[This is new for me, but I'm liking it. If I can predict a Salamence switch, I swith to this guy. A DD set can't hurt me unless he wants to get trapped in an Outrage without Dragon Dance, which Metagross resits and can Metor mmash his frailness. This is a partial dragon counter, which is nice and needed.]

Description: A great bulky offensive player, just my style. Dragon Dance does wonders, and lets face it everyone loves a shiny Gyarados. It is nice to have something to counter Heatran with, but EQ would do better. However I am worried of another DD poke to take advantage of me.

This guy seriously kicks butt. He can predict a Salamence(and I say him because few use Dragonite) and then kill it =P. He also serves fire types well with a draogn danced stab waterfall. Stone Edge puts and End to those who resist Waterfall. I refuse to use bounce because what Celebii wants to stay in for a stab attack on a DD Gyara when they resist Stealth rock? That sounds bizzare to me...

Evs: This time around it pretty complex, with 156 HP EVs, Gyarados is never 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Heatran's Fire Blast. The defense is to prevent Scizor from @koing me with quick attack. The speed is to beat Jolly TTAr.

Team work: He can back up Metagross, and is pretty bulky to take some big hits.

Electric problems can be shot to…

​

The special Sweep: Latias

Ability: Levitate
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe

~Recover
[Great for last minute problems. Helps lengthen my sweep without having to switch to Vaporeon and heal up.]

~Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
[Stab. Huge advantage for attacking. Does damage to everything but steel and the big blob (blissey)]

~Surf
[Great coverage plus nice for ground types]

~Thunderbolt
[Well I choose this over Grass Knot for a number of reasons...one is that vaporeon is as light as a feather and can swallow a grass knot like I swallow Oreo minis =P. Also It pulls things from the sky. Togekiss wouldn't like latias's thunderbolt and it does a deal to any flying types. The biggest reasone however, is Gyarados. He could wreak havock if given the chance, but not anymore.]

Description: A nice addition to my bulky offense. Her exceptional special defense plays a nice role in absorbing x2 weaknesses to bug and dark. Necessary to counter those pesky water types. Thunderbolt does its dues to Gyarados.

My special sweeper and Gyarados counter. Just about anything with a bit of bulk and a thunderbolt can take him out, but this ensures it. He is a great sweeper with good coverage. I am thinking to go with draogn Pulse over draco meteor, although the power loss is HUGE. But having to switch in and out a lot gets annoying, while stealth rocks pile up.

Evs: Simple, just for attack and how fast it delivers

Team work: Mandatory, my only special sweeper. Also great fro water types that carry ice, my teams worst threat.

He does the job of clearing bulky waters. Thunderbolt does a number and Vaporeon can't swallow it like grass knot. If I happen to encounter swampert, I can simply use my dragon move.

Bug and Dark go to… and Dragonite

The Healer: Vaporeon

Ability: Water absorb
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Evs: 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpD

~Protect
[Nice for scouting]

~Surf
[Great stab, covers most poke]

~Wish
[Most important part of Vaporeon. Needed to support sweepers. It’s something that few offensive teams]

~HP Electric
[One more way og a Gyarados being eliminated, and nice coverage with surf]

Description: Great to support the sweepers. When they are low his part comes in nicely. However the importance of his role is debatable.

Evs: Mainly for bulk and defense

Team work: Good, but problematic. I’m not sure of his importance compared to a true dragon counter. Just about every offensive team either carries Dragonite or Salamence, meaning a counter to them is crucial for any team, but also difficult. Especially since they are both physical and special sweepers. So whether to replace him or not, advise is needed. Also on possible Dragon counter advice is requested.

Currently I am pawndering over switching Vaporeon for a AgiliPetya Empoleon. His steel typing is always welcome, and he is a true draagon counter. I can keep him a secret until a dragon thinks there are no steel types, and locks itself into an Outrage. I'll switch, absorb and Outrage, and I can Substitue. FRom there I Ice Beam the dragon to its grave. The disadvange to this is team synergy. By switching them I am forced into having three pokes weak to ground. But to counter that the other three are immune, with Latias and Gyarados both carring a water move to retaliate. So how bad that really is I'm not sure, but advice here is vital right now.

​

The Big Bang: Dragonite

Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Yache Berry
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe

~Dragon Dance
[Setting up for a big sweep. Definitely necessary]

~Outrage
[My main move. Great stab plus huge attack stat. Why or how I didn't add to this is beyond me, it deserves it. Outrage is only resisted by one type, which is countered before my sweep. This thing is a beastly move]

~Earthquake
[Combo with outrage covers all pokemon neutrally bar Skarmory and Bronzong]

~Fire Blast
[For Bronzong and Skarmory (plus any other pesky steels)]

Description: One of my most important players. He is also my favorite. Great coverage and way bulkier than Salamence. It makes a huge difference.

His bulk is alot to brag about, but Salamence also has a lot for the table. His 110 Special attack and more speed, but yet pretty frail. This is something else I'm looking into
, but a little scared to do. However it has been recommended several times so I think I am going to give it a try
Evs: For full offense

Team work: The team is partially based around him. Vaporeon/Empoleon for support. Latias for pesky waters. T-tar for a back up sweep. Also Meta for great type back up.

He is practically the team, I mean the goal of the team is to get around hiss counters and kill the rest with him. The Tyranitar finishes up the job.

​

The Opener/Closer: Tyranitar

Ability: Sand stream
Item: Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe

~Stone Edge
[In for stab, plus has nice type coverage]

~Crunch
[Stab 2, nice for eliminating psychic types]

~Pursuit
[To catch the opponent before they leave]

~Superpower
[Not very sure whether to go for this or aqua tail. Advice needed.

Description: Great to open out and close the battle. Choice band allows huge sweeps.

He is more of a closer as Gyarados tends to open up the battle. After Drtagonite has taken a few guys out, and crippled a few more, Tyranitar comes and picks up the trash. Choice scarf has been suggested many many times so I went along with it. Having Superpower scares me because I will have to switch out and bring him back in. However it is worth a go.

Evs: A nice balance of offence and HP

Team work: Nice for closing and to wrap up a hopefully clean sweep

Concern's an Such

===To switch out Dragonite for Salamence, who is faster with a better special attack. But also more frail

===To switch Vaporeon for Empoleon, as Vaporeon usually faints before I get the chance to use her
​

Well that’s my most recent team. I can’t help but wonder if a dragon type will sweep me off my feet. Comments and suggestions appreciated.

 

[Korodos]

Oh you do know u can have another 4evs that matter in any other given stat? 1 point could make a difference :)

 

[-RatCheesy]

Hello Freak of Nature, very nice team and I can see how all these pokemon contribute to a DD Dragonite sweep. The most important job for your pokemon to do is to make sure steel types aren't lurking around to ruin a DD Nite sweep. Reason why I said steel types is because when you get locked into outrage with Dragonite a steel type pokemon will be waiting to get its opportunity to ruin your fun. I would suggest replacing Tyranitar as I think it doesn't have any synergy with this team. I would replace Tyranitar for a sub Magnezone because it has perfect synergy with dragon types and any annoying steel types like Scizor or scarf Rachi with Ice Punch won't be in the way of your sweep. Also, I went through the OU list and DD Tar is your main weakness to your team and if Gyarados or Vaporeon are gone you'll be in trouble. Anyway, I'll tell you my Magnezone set and I hope you take into consideration. Though if you want to keep Tyranitar just run scarf on it okay.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Substitute
HP Grass (kills Swamperts)/ HP Ice (dragons and ground types)
Magnet Rise (no ground weakness)
Thunderbolt

Hope I helped.

 

[Adeku]

For the moves you have / on. i'm guessing your not sure. Well stealth rock is a must. and for the other spot. BP would be useful to beat sash leads. mm+bb. Also you may want to run lum berry so you can beat sleep leads like roserade and smeargle

 

[AkaneMizuki]

For Metagross I suggest u run SR over LS. Although LS blocks against Salamence your stuck without explosion to clear Lead Gliscor. Also I perfer to use Roar on vaporeon for the 4th slot, it'll pseudo-haze lucario which your team seems to fall easily too, assuming you lose gyrados

 

[Itsuki]

Hello Freak of Nature, this is a cool team you have here, however I'm worried about the potential Lucario and Gyarados weakness. Lucario can set up on Tyranitar's Choice Band Dark- and Rock-type attacks and nab a Swords Dance. Gyarados is generally your only check against it, and with a Stealth Rock weakness, it isn't so reliable. I recommend using Salamence over Dragonite, as Intimidate can make Salamence a decent check to Lucario.

Salamence @ Life Orb |
Naive | 232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe
Outrage / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Dragon Dance

Salamence makes a good Lucario check and plays a similar role to Dragonite. You can opt towards Yache Berry, but you lose immediate power as you won't be OHKOing max HP / 0 SpD Neutral Skarmory. Salamence also has its perks through its higher Base 100 Speed allowing it to tie with Scarf Jirachi, making it much harder to revenge kill. This, however, does not fix your Lucario weakness, but checks it, so I suggest using a Scarf Tyranitar as another alternative.

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf |
Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Stone Edge / Crunch / Pursuit / Superpower

Tyranitar patches up the Lucario weakness, as well as provide a much more safer check against Latias, as she can still cause a number to Tyranitar. This, however, is not a full-proof check against Latias as Pursuit fails to OHKO, so you must predict accordingly.

Gyarados seems to do a number after it sets up, so I recommend changing Vaporeon to a standard Wish tank.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Bold | 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpD
Surf / Hidden Power Electric / Wish / Protect

A standard Wish Vaporeon, allowing it to effectively counter Gyarados and MixApe. Bold and Hidden Power Electric is used to patch up your Gyarados weakness. I allocated the Speed EVs to Special Defense to allow better special tanking, however if you appreciate outspeeding Metagross and Scizor move them to Speed.

My last recommendation is making Metagross a standard Stealth Rock lead.

Metagross @ Lum Berry |
Adamant | 200 HP/ 232 Atk / 32 Spe / 44 SpD
Meteor Mash / Earthquake / Bullet Punch / Stealth Rock

Metagross fares well against all types of leads. Bullet Punch is what sets this lead apart as you can effectively take on non-DS Azelf, Jirachi, Tyranitar, and Roserade, which is probably the most important as it will only be able to set down one layer of Toxic Spikes, which are a hinderance for Vaporeon and Tyranitar.

Hope I helped!

 

[Freak of Nature]

Thank you all for your help. Does anyone know what to do in Latias? Swampert is a problem but grass knot doesn't perform as nicely with light water types.

DWP-I definitely agree over T-Tar. I am considering switching him out for either magnezone or an extremely good dragon counter. Suggestions of a dragon counter would be nice. Magnezone is definitely in consideration. Edit Again :P I have just looked into your magnezone set. He seems perfect for my team, the steel remover, dragon counter, and a steel type, wit its many resitances. I think I'm going to put him in, he is definetely looking good right now

Itsuki- I agree with TTar and Vap, but as for Dragonite, I couldn't replace him, as the frailness of Salamece continues to pester me. I can't take it when he is onkod and Dragonite takes the it.

As for Metagross, Explosion or Bullet Punch? any suggestions?

 

[jc104]

The choice should not be between explosion and Bullet punch. You must have bullet punch to beat Azelf, Aerodactyl, Roserade, Smeargle and others. The choice in this case is really between explosion and Earthquake. I would use Lum berry as the item (to beat Roserade, Breloom and Smeargle), but without Occa berry you will need to switch out of Infernape and Heatran, so EQ is only really of use against other Metagross. I would use Explosion instead, because it gets you a free kill much of the time, even against dedicated physical walls.

Conclusion: Lum berry and MM/BP/SR/Explosion

 

[Freak of Nature]

Ok T-Tar is out until there is a reason to put him back in

​

Dragonite's sidekick: Magnezone
Ability: Magnet Pull
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

~Substitute
[Not much to say, but nice while I set up Magnet Rise]

~Thunderbolt
[Nice STAB, also my main weapon against steel types]

~HP Ice
[Comboded with t-bolt to get nice coverage]

~Magnet Rise
[Necessary, otherwise I'd be Metagross bait]

Description: Suggested to me by Devil Wears Prada. I looked into it and couldn't belive I had missed it in the first place. Great for steel counter.

Evs: Mainly for offense

Team work: Dragonite's dream for pesky steels. Works like magic against Metagross.

 

[DittoCrow]

Well if you take TTar out, you might have some trouble with Latias and Rotom. The bait Latias set is more common now, and it will KO your Magnezone with HP Fire before you can KO it with HP Ice. Something like Jirachi would fit much better. The Expert Belt set will help you against Scizor and other Jirachi, and provides great synergy with Gyarados and Latias, as they both counter Heatran and Infernape.

Naive/Hasty Jirachi @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpA
~Iron Head
~Ice Punch
~Fire Punch
~Grass Knot/Thunderbolt

A minor thing on Gyarados is changing Stone Edge to Bounce. It provides more coverage, and get STAB. It might help vs things like Celebi.

 

[Freak of Nature]

As for Magnezone, I'll just go with Tyranitar but choice scarf, due to Latias and Lucario.

But for Metagross...I tried him out a bit this week and noticed that just about any fire type lead makes short work of him, and he doesn't get to be the tank I had planned him to be for later in the game, SO i have a replacement that I am considering and would like some help on whether or not this is a better lead for my team....

so without further a due...

​

The Lead(maybe): Swampert
Ability: Torrent
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Relaxed
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

~Stealth Rock
[Average for lead, helps against poke who tend to switch around a lot]

~Earthquake
[Nice STAB, a way to take out Metagross, one of the most common leads around]

~Ice Beam
[Something to deal that pesky Salamence, who I have noticed that If he can pull of a dragon dance, I have a huge problem.]

~Roar
[A surprise for Swampert, but effective, as I have noticed my strategy depends heavily on prediction, and this helps out.]

Description: Got tired of Metagross dying to the opponents lead, so did some research and found this guy, my worry is his x4 weakness

Evs: All defense, which is the only way this slimy tank is going to endure the opponents lead

Team work: The lead, a possible way to deal with Salamence, and wont die off like Metagross


So this is what I got, comments requested

 

[ginganinja]

Well man i have to say that this is a pretty good team.
But keep metagross on this team as it synergises well with this team. Occa berry can allow you to survive a fire move and hit hard with earthquake. But seriously, ALL leads have weak points and its something everyone has to play around. If you add swampert to your team you will have 6 fire resistances (Tyranitar included). With Metagross you have 5. Metagross may lose to Infernape or Heatran but you have the perfect counter to both of them... Vaporeon! And I also suggest Bullet Punch over Explosion for Priority and to KO sashers. It also restrict Aerodactyl as it has to SR first turn or risk being 2KOed by Bullet Punch. this is important as without bullet Punch assuming Aerodactyl SR's first turn it gets a free turn to taunt or Earthquake you before would hit it with Meteor Mash a second time.

 

[corncake22]

Swampert over metagross. Keep tyranitar because you have nothing really to take the hits from Azelf leads. If they can outpredict your vaperon your going to lose 1 or more pokemon. Tyranitar can take all of a common azelfs moves and pursuit. Sash doesn't matter because of the sandstorm. Plus magenzone can't counter the SD luke you fear. So thats alot of reasons to keep tyranitar. Keep HP electric on Vappy. Metagross can't do nothing to the water dragon and if you let it get 1 dd it could mean game over. Vappy can 2 hit kill the thing and if you decide to use swampert use roar. Anyway good luck and I hope I helped :D

 

[connoisseur]

I suggest putting superpower over EQ on ScarfTar because your Dragonite and Metagross both have EQ and Fighting/Dark is awesome coverage. If the results are subpar feel free to switch back.

On LeadGross change either Meteor Mash or EQ to Bullet Punch, Bullet Punch is incredibly important for LeadGrosses to finish off sashers.

 

[PokeMaster44]

hey freak of nature its your bff lol well i sugest you use weavile istead of tyranitar. hees the most amazing dragon counter no dragon can stand him
weavile/jolly
item:focus sash
ice shard
brick break
night slash
fake out
full evs in attk and speed

 

[Demoness]

hey freak of nature its your bff lol well i sugest you use weavile istead of tyranitar. hees the most amazing dragon counter no dragon can stand him
weavile/jolly
item:focus sash
ice shard
brick break
night slash
fake out
full evs in attk and speed

Spikes and Stelth rock ( the latter is really common) render this set usless because it makes the sash usless. Also, weavile is no " ultimite dragon counter" for a few reasons. One, he can't switch in on any dragon if SR is out, two, with jolly and focus sash, Weavile's ice shard can't KO Salamence bulky set Even with SR damage ( Dragonite can survive too, but he's not guranteed to), third, Priorty rapes weavile and with Scizor being 1# used pokemon in OU, your going to see it a lot from him.

 

[Freak of Nature]

Okay I need a answer on something before I go crazy. I know that scarf Tyranitar keeps latias and lucario at bay, but is his x4 weakness to lucario a hinderance? how important is his role? Would SubPetya Empoleon do a better job than him? And also how does
Empoleon do against Steel types? One more thing about Empoleon is that Salamence given the right prediction sweps my team. But a Salamence locked in Outrage is resisted by empoleon who can retaliate with Ice Beam.

I also am requesting more advise on my lead because I have discovered that bulky fire types have a chance to survive my Earthquake, or after stealth rocks I decide to explode I am to crippled by their previous fire attack, and I don't have the speed to explode to explode

 

[connoisseur]

Change metagross by giving it a lum berry:

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Adamant 200 HP / 232 Atk / 44 SpD / 32 Spe (I believe this was the EV spread someone suggested to me before; however, if it doesn't work just use the standard 252HP/232Atk/12Def/12Spe)
EQ/Meteor Mash/Iron Head (if you are concerned about MM's accuracy use Iron Head)
Bullet Punch
Explosion
Stealth Rock

It helps with sleep leads. With metagross you are not going to be beating lead heatrans ever anyway (they run shuca) so don't worry about fire. Fire can be dealt with by switching to gyarados and setting up SR and exploding or setting up SR with metagross later on.


Also, Tyrantitar is pretty important to your team. If you are dying to try out subpetaya empoleon, replacing vaporeon would be the way to go. Replacing t-tar with empoleon would give you 3 electric weakenesses and since t-bolt is the 2nd most used move (I think) that would be bad.

 

[Freak of Nature]

Change metagross by giving it a lum berry:

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Adamant 200 HP / 232 Atk / 44 SpD / 32 Spe (I believe this was the EV spread someone suggested to me before; however, if it doesn't work just use the standard 252HP/232Atk/12Def/12Spe)
EQ/Meteor Mash/Iron Head (if you are concerned about MM's accuracy use Iron Head)
Bullet Punch
Explosion
Stealth Rock

It helps with sleep leads. With metagross you are not going to be beating lead heatrans ever anyway (they run shuca) so don't worry about fire. Fire can be dealt with by switching to gyarados and setting up SR and exploding or setting up SR with metagross later on.


Also, Tyrantitar is pretty important to your team. If you are dying to try out subpetaya empoleon, replacing vaporeon would be the way to go. Replacing t-tar with empoleon would give you 3 electric weakenesses and since t-bolt is the 2nd most used move (I think) that would be bad.

That was actually extremely helpful. I understand TTar's importance as well as metagross's, but for him I need to run an occa berry. It is the only way of getting stealth rocks up, otherwise it is a OHKO. And then I have nothing to resist an Outrage.
As for Empoleon, the x3 weakness to thunderbolt is too risky for me, but I think Vaporeon's role is just as needed. Wish support helps when my crippled Gyarados is about to faint, or my other sweepers. I switch to Vaporeon, unless they carry thunderbolt. After that I can wish and I have a second chance on one of my sweepers. However for Dragonite this is useless, because I just put my previous Dragon Dance to waste. If Empoleon does come in, I don't exactly know where to put him (italicized and underlined for importance...adbised is requested)


and I would like to thank everyone for continue to give this team support. I know I have alot of questions and concers(that's just my personality) and thank you for continuing to answer them =D

 

[ENZ0]

Cool team, I see many ppl have already pointed out flaws and fixes but I want to recommend key changes that will overall boost the team's performance. Starting off with Dragonite I want to recommend changing it to the standard DDmence with Life Orb/Lum Berry/Yache Berry | Naive Nature | 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe *Same DN moves. This change will provide with an assortment of benefits including better speed in the current metagame, another intimidater, unpredictability, and is overall better at offensive setup. Moving on to Latias I recommend changing your moves to Dragon Pulse, Recover, GK, HP Fire; this change will give you bait for Scizor which your sweepers need to get rid of and a stronger move for the other pesky steels. Taking surf away won't hinder you since you have Vappy to threaten Heatran which would walll Latias. Next, change Metagross to the standard or other lead set they gave you or change it to Swampert that does the defensive role better giving you a check to DDmence and DDtar that hit your team hard. Remember, Swampert also provides the needed electric immunity. Finally, use earthquake over stone edge on Gyarados since you need to hit the key grounded pokemon like Jirachi and Metagross, and Vappy already provides a check to DDgyara. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Freak of Nature]

Torrent: I am currently looking into switching out Dragonite. But his defenses to Dragonite are not so good, but the surprise is a but higher with Salamence. This is something I will look further into when the Strategy Dex is back online

As for the Empoleon deal. I did some damage calcs and empoleon can survive a Salamence +1 life orb Outrage, then ativating torrent and petya berry, aswell as retaliate with a OHKO Ice Beam. Vaporeon cannot survie an Outrage. That is sometyhing that scares me very much so. I think(not sure) but I think Salamence is the #2 used Poke in the OU, so that is a huge problem. The disadvantage to Empoleon is then(assuming Mgross stayed) have 3 weaknesses to ground. Bu how bad that is I don't know because I then have three immunities to ground as well. So help is requested but TTar has permanently earned hi spot and I don't think I'm going to go with Swampert because of synergy and that would be my fourth x4 weakness


This is my team with Empoleon (courtesy to Pokemon Marriland)

Thank you for your time

 

[666lumberjack]

I don't think having 3 ground weaknesses is particularly terrible considering your other three pokemon are all immune. Admittedly, if you lose all three Flyers/levitators and your opponent still has something like Mamoswine left, you need to Bullet punch with metagross to survive, but I don't think you'll have a massive amount of trouble, especially as Dragonite seems to be a more 'lategame' pokemon.
FF