Team Support, and how we provide it.

Team Support, and how we provide it.

Often when building teams you will hear the term "team support". But how do we provide team support? There are many ways of providing team support, under many different styles of play, which I shall delve into deeper.

Stealth Rock
Stealth Rock is on most teams nowadays, for good reason. Stealth Rock takes only one turn to set up, and almost all Pokémon take damage from it (read: Clefable). The amount of damage it does varies on the Pokémon’s taking the damage type. However, it will break Focus Sashes with ease, and often turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs, or 3HKOs into 2HKOs. It is vital to most offensive teams due to this, as well as stall teams as they often force switches, so this kind of residual damage supports the team. It also hits through Wonder Guard, eliminating Shedinja, which often causes switches itself. If your team is struggling to make damage Stealth Rock is useful to help make at least some (up to 50% in some cases).

Spikes
Spikes too causes damage upon entry, albeit not definitive damage. Any Pokémon which is immune to Ground-type moves (eg. Levitators / Flying-types) will not be hurt by Spikes. Spikes come in three layers, and each layer takes one turn to set up. One layer of Spikes causes 12.5% damage, two causes 18.75% damage, and three takes away a huge 25% chunk. Providing they are not immune to Ground-type moves, they will take this set amount of damage. Many stall teams use both Spikes and Stealth Rock to quickly rack up the damage, if a Pokémon takes neutral damage to Rock-type moves, and is susceptible to Ground-type moves (Stealth Rock and three layers of Spikes are down), the user will lose a huge 37.5% of it’s health - over one third. This really puts the strain on offensive teams whom often use Life Orbs and Choice items with no means of recovery.

Toxic Spikes
Another form of residual damage. There are two types of Poison damage - "regular" poison, and "Toxic" poison. Regular poison deals 12.5% damage to the victims HP per turn, whilst Toxic poison deals 6.25% on the first turn, 12.5% on the second turn, 18.75% on the third turn, continuously increasing by 6.25% per turn, capping at 93.75%. The Toxic damage per turn "resets" back to 6.25% if the victim switches out. One layer of Toxic Spikes means regular poison damage, two means toxic poison. Toxic poison seriously helps reduce many Pokémon’s ability to wall, especially when paired with other entry hazards. It also means sweepers have less turns to sweep. However Steel-types, Flying-types, and levitators will avoid Toxic Spikes. On top of this, they can be easily removed through bringing a "grounded" Poison-type into play, such as Drapion, which will absorb the Toxic Spikes until gone.

Rapid Spin
The move Rapid Spin allows users to "get rid of" any Spikes / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes on your side of the field. This means your Zapdos can come in more easier to meet Shaymin-S. Starmie, Claydol, Hitmontop and many more are common Rapid Spinners that are well suited to their job. However, Ghost-types can easily "Spin Block", because Rapid Spin is a Normal-type move with a base power, it means that the attack cannot be launched and therefore the additional effect of getting rid of the hazards cannot be done. However, it is still a rather common move, even if it has been less used in recent times due to more offensive styled teams.

Paralysis
Some teams are based on paralysis, and often utilize "ParaFlinch", a combination of both paralysis and flinch chance, reducing the opponents opportunity of movement. Common Pokémon such as Jirachi and Togekiss are used on these teams, paralysing opponents not just with Thunder Wave, but Body Slam too (thanks to Serene Grace), which can help open sweeps for slower, more powerful Pokémon.

Other status moves
Moves such as Hypnosis will often disable counters allowing sweeps to open. Sure, using Gengar and Alakazam on the same team isn’t the best idea ever made, but with their similar counters, Gengar can help stop Alakazam’s by severely weakening it or sleeping it, it becomes much easier to take out for the rest of the team (or Alakazam). If I slept Vaporeon, it would have a lot more difficulty against Gyarados, possibly meaning Gyarados opens a sweep. Alternatively, Aromatherapy will heal your teams status issues.

Reflect and Light Screen
I am sure you all know the famous “Deoxys-S Dual Screen” lead, that so many people didn’t like playing against. With Reflect and / or Light Screen up, it becomes much easier for set up sweepers such as Gyarados to come in and start setting up. With these moves lasting 7/8 moves long with Light Clay in play (and which is set up first), it severely increases the possibility of sweeps. It means Pokémon such as Life Orb Gyarados would only take a maximum of 42% from standard Vaporeon’s Hidden Power Electric, a daunting prospect when it is considered to be one of the biggest counters.

Trick and Switcheroo
The move Trick has shot to fame in Platinum, with it becoming a new tutor move and many more Pokémon learning it, and being able to conjure up a set for it successfully. Starmie can now cripple Blissey as it comes in, and Metagross Bronzong, just to name a few. Not only does it mean that the victim is crippled against this certain Pokémon; it means they are most likely for the remainder of the match. It cripples walls much, as well as helping beat certain sweepers, should you Trick Choice Band onto a special sweeper.

Trapping
Trapping is another great way to support the team. Using a Dugtrio to take out Blissey to open a Raikou sweep is a rather common way of allowing Raikou to sweep, as is using Tyranitar's Pursuit to take out Choice Scarf Gengar, promoting a Gyarados set up. "DugZone", a mixture of Dugtrio and Magnezone is often used to help take out Shed Shell-less SkarmBliss.

Wish
Wish is another common way to support the team. Common Wish "passers" such as Vaporeon are defensive enough to consistently pass Wish to opposing team members with no way of support, such as Electivire. This means they can heal up 50% of their health, often adding HP taken away from residual entry hazards. It works great with typing: such as Electivire grabbing a possible Motor Drive boost from an Electric-type attack aimed at Vaporeon.

Lures
Lures can effectively be classed as team support, and they do what it says on the tin. They lure in Pokémon and swiftly KO them, fainting counters to other, unrevealed Pokémon. A great example of this would be Ice Beam Tyranitar taking out Gliscor, to help open chance of damage for Heracross.

Using resistances
Combinations of resistances are often talked about, such as Salamence and Jirachi, or Magnezone and Gyarados. In offensive teams many teams need to use this in case they come across an unexpected problem, they can switch and quickly apply pressure onto this Pokémon, and they can rinse and repeat this. Defensive stall teams also need resistances, for if they are all weak to something their ability to actually stall is severely limited provided the opponent carries a move of your type weakness. This means X can take a hit Y is severely threatened by, supporting it.

Encore
Encore is a great move which means the opponent has to repeat their move for 4-8 turns. This could allow your SDLuke to set up and sweep, or you to freely heal up, or set up a Substitute. There are so many options you can use in conjunction with Encore with so many different possibilities leading from them. It means you can spend some turns safely healing up your Pokémon as team support (possibly via Wish), whilst also possibly waking up a RestTalker. Encore often causes switches because users do not want their Pokémon to be (possibly) idle for 4-8 turns, meaning that entry hazard damage can rack up quickly.

Baton Pass
Through Baton Pass you can pass Substitutes, stat boosts, and so many more effects. Even just passing an Acid Armour to your Blissey could be classed as support, allowing it to survive a possibly fatal hit. Baton Passing also moves depending on the users speed - meaning the switch-in may get a fully safe switch-into something. A full guide to Baton Passing can be found here!

Countering counters with counters
I'm sure you have all seen or heard of "SkarmBlissCress". This was well known as a rather good defensive core, walling many common Pokémon. However, there was TyraniBoah to deal with, a Pokémon that could be these three. By putting a Swampert on the team of SkarmBlissCress, the user could eliminate the TyraniBoah, allowing SkarmBlissCress to find it much easier to wall the opponents team. There were several people who felt this was incredibly annoying, but nevertheless it was used. You are effectively, countering a counter (in this case Tyranitar), with a counter (Swampert). It would provide team support by taking out the biggest threats to the current team.

These are some often used ways of using team support - even if we don't know we are using them, and do so incidently! So after looking at common ways of using team support, I ask you four questions:
-How far does the term team support actually stretch? When can we outright say “This is no longer supporting the team” (in which case you would probably change it)? The simple answer would be it stops when we look at the supported (which too may provide team support), but nevertheless, surely we should always be looking to support the team or a certain Pokémon, and therefore would we use the term team support uselessly, as its meaning is rather omnipresent?
-How do you personally provide team support? (eg. Stealth Rock) Clearly you would try to use as much of the team support which has a good effect on your team.
-Why do you provide team support in this manner? Do you use a certain type of team support because it suits your play style? Is it for stall for example?
-Can weather be classed as supporting the team? Sub + BrightPowder with Sandstream Garchomp was a good example of this, often causing the opponent to miss giving free stat boosts. Would you class weather as team support?

Thank you for reading. :toast:
 
In my own personal opinion, weather is definitely support. Sandstorm, Hail and Rain Dance exist in abundance. EG. Hippowdon's Sandstream activates Gliscor's Sand Veil!

I don't really have a good answer for your first question, I'm only a beginner!

On my current team, support is abundant.

My lead does not set up Stealth Rock, but uses the move Trick to cripple any potential threats to my sweepers and it can then sweep itself a little. My physical wall puts down the damned rocks and can Whirlwind away threats to stack up residual damage (I think you all know which wall I'm talking about). My special wall can burn physical attackers and Taunt other walls/Pokes trying to set up. My sweepers do not offer much in team support.

Stealth Rock is absolutely vital for a team nowadays, significantly weakening big threats like Salamence. The problem with Spikes is that it takes too long to set up compared to Stealth Rock. Toxic Spikes is foiled by Poison types and Guts users. Just my opinion. Reflect and Light Screen are nice, but I can't find the moveslots to utilise them.

Strangely, I like a sleeping move on my team. Hmm...
 
You forgot one thing, the team should never have too many SR weaks, so the whole typing of the team is also important.
 
Whoops! Added Wish :$

I noted about typing under "Type Resistances", so ... I think I made it moderately clear its not good to have something weak to a particular type - if you consider a weakness to Rock-type moves being too large you should be fine in numbing it to a lesser extent.
 
You should probably add Rapid Spin since it supports the team mates that are weak to Spikes / Stealth Rocks.
 
Added in, cheers Venom.

I think the amount of things already added just shows how many things can be classed as team support, and why it could be a rather omnipresent term.
 
You may want to add the rare and useful Encore.

Also, what about Baton Pass? Baton Pass is the very definition of support!

Great post, by the way!
 
Oh, are we allowed to add stuff?

How about:
  • Aromatherapy
  • Heal Bell
  • Disable
  • Follow Me (doubles)
  • Gastro Acid (doubles)
  • Gravity
  • Haze
  • Roar
  • Whirlwind
  • Helping Hand (doubles)
  • Leech Seed
  • Heal Block
  • Healing Wish
  • Lunar Dance
  • Destiny Bond
  • Explosion
  • Heart Swap
  • Imprison
  • Mud Sport
  • Water Sport
  • Perish Song
  • Safeguard
  • Tailwind
  • Trick Room
  • Worry Seed (doubles)
  • Yawn
And all those dodgy little moves that lower stats.
 
Explosion isn't really support. You just try to randomly KO something.

Safeguard, Trick Room, Leech Seed, Disable, Aromatherapy+Heal Bell, Roar+Whirlwind and Haze all merit a mention. No-one does double battles anymore so we can disregard Helping Hand, Follow Me etc. Tailwind is alright I suppose. Heal Block is alright, but doesn't merit its own moveslot.

I really like Yawn for forcing switches!
Mud Sport and Water Sport suck. End...
Heart Swap and Imprison are too minor to merit a mention.
Lunar Dance and Healing Wish are pretty awful, nuff said.

Gastro Acid doesn't have to used in doubles. You can stop a Heracross' Guts for example.
 
Oh, are we allowed to add stuff?

How about:
  • Aromatherapy Definately
  • Heal Bell Same
  • Disable no...never
  • Follow Me (doubles) yeah i guess
  • Gastro Acid (doubles) yeah, dunno much abt doubles :P
  • Gravity its got no realuse outside of doubles, otherwise no
  • Haze i dont think so. haze is more to stop one sweeper. but now that i put it that way, it may be team support..
  • Roar doesnt really support the team unless used with spikes / SR
  • Whirlwind Same above
  • Helping Hand (doubles)
  • Leech Seed thatdoesnt help the team much does it...
  • Heal Block no
  • Healing Wish no, why'd anyone use this?
  • Lunar Dance i dunno what it even does xD
  • Destiny Bond nope
  • Explosion hell no, except for maybe getting free switch in
  • Heart Swap lol yeah right
  • Imprison nope
  • Mud Sport wtf?!?!
  • Water Sport double wtf?!?!
  • Perish Song not much for the team, again only free switch in
  • Safeguard yep, although not common
  • Tailwind not muchuse other than doubles
  • Trick Room HELLZ YEAH!
  • Worry Seed (doubles)
  • Yawn
And all those dodgy little moves that lower stats.

So basically you quoted almost every "other" category move. team support is what we are talking about.

Id like to say that T-Wave is definatley TSupport, helps slow threats down and pave the way for a slow sweeper.

P.S. Woot Twash is using my sprite for his avvy!!
 
I'm extremely familiar with the Reflect and Light Screen combination, accompanied with Light Clay for a longer lasting effect.

I'm currently testing Bronzong and Claydol, both of whom are using the infamous combination, which is most commonly known as Dual Screen, to provide support for the remaining four members of my team; all offensively-orientated, of course.

Claydol and Bronzong both wield Reflect and Light Screen on their sets; however Bronzong leads with Stealth Rock and Explosion, whilst Claydol uses Rapid Spin and Shadow Ball.

Rapid Spin is an essential asset to my team; had it not have been for Rapid Spin, Salamence and Gyarados, two of my four offensive members in the team, wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the long-lasting Light Screen or Reflect, thanks to the unwelcoming 25% damage they both take when either one switches in. Stealth Rock, Bronzong's third installment, is a self-explanitory addition which grants me a greater possibility of success.

The directly-damaging attacks both Claydol and Bronzong wield are Shadow Ball and Explosion, respectively. The former's primary aims are to eliminate opposing entry hazards with Rapid Spin, for the good of my Gyarados and Salamence; the remaining two potent threats of my team, two of which I have not already mentioned, are Tyranitar and Jirachi, both of whom do not fear Stealth Rock. But regularily, the opposition switches-in their Ghost-type prospect to immobolize Claydol's efforts; to remedy this unfortunate set-back, Shadow Ball catches those obligatory switch-ins unexpectedly. Because Claydol is likely to be under Light Screen protection, the Ghost-type opposition, whether it be Gengar or a form of Rotom, cannot severely damage Claydol. Explosion, Bronzong's fourth and final moveslot, helps with enemy threats attempting an easy set-up; however, I often keep Bronzong for a second run of Reflect and Light Screen before exploding.

I adore the amazing combination of Reflect and Light Screen.
 
Skarmory with spikes and blissey with stealth rock is really fun, and I usually get both set up 90% of the time, and since both people dont mess with rapid spinning its fun. ^_^ Also speaking of rapid spinning Im not really a fan of it as I dont like dedicating a whole team slot to it, and it slows me down a whole lot.
 
Originally Posted by Fat bugmaniacbob
Oh, are we allowed to add stuff?

How about:
  • Aromatherapy This has got to be team support.
  • Heal Bell Same here.
  • Disable I thought that disabling a choice pokemon would free opportunities, especially to let pokemon in unscathed or begin boosting on something like Alakazam or Kingdra.
  • Follow Me (doubles) Pretty good for allowing your teammate a free turn, unless something like Blizzard is used.
  • Gastro Acid (doubles) Useful mostly in doubles, but forcing switches could be classed as team support, to rid yourself, albeit temporarily, of Pokemon that need to be dealt with later, as well as scouting your opponent's team.
  • Gravity Seems pretty useful in doubles to down things like Gengar and Rotom temporarily.
  • Haze Haze should be considered support for its ability to stop something that gets greedy.
  • Roar Scouting your opponent's team should be considered important, as is racking up the Entry Hazard damage.
  • Whirlwind Same above
  • Helping Hand (doubles) The name screams support... but only in doubles.
  • Leech Seed I thought it healed the active member of your team, rather than the one that planted it, until the seedede switches out, so you could be, in a way, healing your teammates... if not though, I renounce it.
  • Heal Block Stopping Bliss's Softboiled from working should be support.
  • Healing Wish A more advanced yet extremely situational variant of Wish... if Wish is support, then this should be too.
  • Lunar Dance See above. Only more likely to work. And I cannot see how the fact that nobody uses it detracts from its classification as a support move.
  • Destiny Bond It's a bit of a stretchy one, but I thought that being rid of an irritating pokemon and allowing a free switch (see Lure above) would be a good thing.
  • Explosion See above.
  • Heart Swap Same as Haze, but more beneficial.
  • Whirlwind See 'Roar'.
    [*]Imprison Can stop those rocks going up, but that's about the limit. However, it still supports its teammates indirectly.
    [*]Mud SportLaugh if you must, but it could save Gyara's neck and allow him a couple of Dances in doubles.
    [*]Water Sport See above. Substitute 'Scizor' over 'Gyara'.
    [*]Perish Song See 'Roar'.
    [*]Safeguard A bit like Aromatherapy that comes before, not after, status.
    [*]Tailwind Use to give the slower pokes a bit of a (temporary) boost.
    [*]Trick Room I can't believe nobody mentioned this one.
    [*]Worry Seed (doubles) See 'Gastro Acid'
    [*]Yawn See 'Whirlwind'.
And all those dodgy little moves that lower stats.


So basically you quoted almost every "other" category move. team support is what we are talking about.

Id like to say that T-Wave is definatley TSupport, helps slow threats down and pave the way for a slow sweeper.

P.S. Woot Twash is using my sprite for his avvy!!

I didn't quote all of them. I quoted the ones that seemed to help teammates in some way or other. Many aren't good, but that doesn't mean they aren't support.

Spr_4p_130_m.png

Gyarados @ Choice Specs
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Modest

SURF
ICE BEAM
THUNDERBOLT
FLAMETHROWER

EVs: 252 HP, 252 SAtk, 4 Spd

Special Sweeping Gyarados. It's not very good. It doesn't mean it's not a Special Sweeper.
 
WOW! SpecsGyara.

Anyway Explosion is not support. You just try to kill something else before you go down. If you say Explosion is support then Tackle and Water Gun are support as you are still trying to damage something.

What about Mean Look/Block/Spider Web and Whirlpool/Sand Tomb/Fire Spin?
 
A very important form of support that you have omitted is something that I call "pivoting". That is, cheaply achieving a favourable match up via an intermediary switch (the pivot).

For example, consider the scenario of Celebi vs Zapdos. Suppose you want to reach the favourable match up of Jolteon vs Zapdos. A direct switch could mean taking significant damage from heat wave, especially accounting for entry hazards. Therefore, you can use a water Pokemon as a pivot; it brushes off the heat wave and induces a thunderbolt that Jolteon will not mind at all.

This is the optimal use of resistances rather than specific combinations of Pokemon. Anything can potentially fulfil the role of a pivot, depending on the situation, and this is why I have always judged the value of a Pokemon on its relative ability to switch in.

Your ability to utilise this concept relies heavily upon prediction, but from personal experience, it adds a significant edge to my win/loss expectations. The better your understanding of it, the less walling you will need in a successful team.
 
Maybe this thread would go well in Contributions and Corrections, I really like it!

Team support plays a vital part in this metagame and it is definitely far more fun to use Encore than Earthquake. Support moves add a lot of strategy to Pokemon.
 
What about Taunt? It can be used to disable walls, giving a free switch and possible stat ups to your sweepers. It deserves something of a mention right?
 
Does Brick Break qualify as support, as it can be used to break Reflect and Light Screen?

What about Taunt? It can be used to disable walls, giving a free switch and possible stat ups to your sweepers. It deserves something of a mention right?

Well, technically it could, but in practice, it doesn't last long enough to provide anything that you would call support. It's effect is removed by swapping out, which means you only have time to swap out.
And generally, taunt is used to set up a pokemon's own sweep instead of supporting the team e.g. Gyara, DDTar, CM Taunt Mewtwo.

The closest I'll give Taunt is an opportunity to support the team, not actual support e.g. DS Deoxys.
 
What about Weather Support, AKA Sandstorm, Hail and Rain Dance? (Sunny Day teams usually don't work, though).

Anyways, you did a really good job with this thread.

Also, I think Bugmaniacbob has some really good points, but I'm confused as to whether we should really be discussing the doubles metagame in a primarily singles-based forum? Also, I think we should shy away from the moves which are generally unusable due to the pokemon learning them being just plain wrong for the move or the move just plain having a better counterpart, such as Healing Wish and Lunar Dance being on walls with recovery and support moves who you really don't want to lose, Memento (lol), Tailwind(lol), and Haze, when Roar does the job better while at the same time being more versatile. Worry Seed may be a good move to counter resting walls, for example, but you'd be better off having an extra moveslot and simply switching out to a Pokemon that could OHKO them or something. :\

Also, personally, I'd place Taunt to technically be a team support move, but Brick Break is a bit pushing it, although I can't really see any reason why Brick Break wouldn't count when used that way. <<
 
There's also fodder support, say a pokemon is useless, and you switch it in to get killed, while getting a free switch, you also know a bit about your opponent's moveset.
 
It's more tactics than team support (just like luring, pivoting and using fodder), but how about baiting? Very similar to luring, only instead of having a surprise move on the lure pokemon, it is predicting a switch to a counter and simultaneously switching to a direct counter to the counter. This can only be used in the late game once you have an inherent knowledge of the opposing team.

e.g. Opponent has Hippowdon out, you have Electivire. You switch to Ludicolo and threaten the KO on Hippo with Surf/Grass Knot. However, you also know that your opponent has a Blissey, so instead of attacking you switch straight to Dugtrio on the predicted switch.

e.g. Opponent has Blissey out. You switch in Tauros and go straight to Magnezone to take out the incoming Skarmory which you earlier saw.
 
It's more tactics than team support (just like luring, pivoting and using fodder), but how about baiting? Very similar to luring, only instead of having a surprise move on the lure pokemon, it is predicting a switch to a counter and simultaneously switching to a direct counter to the counter. This can only be used in the late game once you have an inherent knowledge of the opposing team.

e.g. Opponent has Hippowdon out, you have Electivire. You switch to Ludicolo and threaten the KO on Hippo with Surf/Grass Knot. However, you also know that your opponent has a Blissey, so instead of attacking you switch straight to Dugtrio on the predicted switch.

e.g. Opponent has Blissey out. You switch in Tauros and go straight to Magnezone to take out the incoming Skarmory which you earlier saw.

That's more of a prediction thing.
 
That's more of a prediction thing.

Yeah, I did say it sort of was kind of tactics rather than Team Support. But then again, things like pivoting and using fodder isn't really team support as much as it is tactics either (like I said). Also, this is using the pokemon on your team to draw out other pokemon, and combinations of pokemon that can work like this is something I like to keep in mind while making a new team.
 
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