Teambuilding in the 5th Gen

[Princess Bubblegum]

Very interesting Pocket, sweet team.

Anyone mind doing a stall or defensive team, it would be greatly appreciated. (not to steal just as an example)

 

[Suburvia]

Pocket, great post. How successful is the team in practice? Especially against the prominent threats (ie weather teams, baton/smash pass, etc.).

Does the team have a hard time switching? Can it maintain momentum? Does it have trouble winning if Volcarona can't set up?

 

[Penance]

To expand on what I said earlier and do something like Pocket. I'll use a sample team or two. Note they won't be perfect since I haven't revealed yet except through testing.

Usually I have a theme. I can't play weather because it cuts momentum with repeat switching in a weather war. Baton Pass isn't my thing because I don't like 6-0ing my opponent with a boring tactic. So I usually play non-weather.

To begin I usually throw my six pokés together. Later I test it and tweak a bunch until I get a nice feel to the team. Themes I play usually are pseudo-stall, balanced offense and LOLSpeedyOffense.

After presenting my team to Smogon, lolSerebii and somewhere else I playtest changes made to see if it fits in the team. I don't spend much time with this part because I don't like sitting on my phone waiting for changes that I may not use.

After I think I perfect it I import it to PO and try to ladder and proceed to make minor adjustments for PO that don't occur in Wi-Fi matches.

Now to the teams.

LOLSpeedyOffense

Persian @ Focused Sash
Trait: Technician
Nature: Adamant
EV Spread: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Moveset:
-Fake Out
-Payback
-U-Turn
-Aerial Ace

Persian just says LOLSpeedyOffense, Technician boosts Fake Outs, Paybacks and Aerial Aces. Fake Out deals Stab boosts with Technician doubling power. U-Turn keeps the momentum going with the damage it deals and letting me switch. Payback + Technician + Second Turn is lol Payback gets me coverage on Ghosts that otherwise lolwall me plus if I am somehow slower via Trick Room or really fast Pokés I live with Sash and punch a 150 damage payback I believe. Aerial Ace gets 90 BP never misses and beats those Fighting types that are so cool.

Luxray @ Life Orb
Nature: I dunno I'm changing
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/172 SpA/80 Spe
Moveset:
-Wild Charge
-Ice Fang
-T-Wave
-Volt Switch

Luxray, another kitty, he slows down the opponent with T-Wave and to drop peoples set UPS. Wild Chargeis a great physical STAB for Electric types it deals with most special walls that don't resist or have the ground typing. Ice Fang is the greatest coverage move Luxray has giving me a physical BeamBolt combo. Volt Switch lets me keep momentum going which is great.

Gengar @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Trait: Levitate
EVs:252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe 0 HP IVs
Moveset:
-Substitute
-Pain Split
-Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp

Gengar is more a troll than a LOLSpeedyOffense he WoWs to slow down attackers. Sub and Pain Split wears down Blisseys and Chabseys thinking they're cool walls. Shadow Ball doesn't let me get Taunted easily. Sub is so I can cut my HP.

Gyrados @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Moveset:
-Taunt
-Waterfall
-EQ
-Stone Edge

EdgeQuake is great coverage for Gyarados. People expect DDanxe so they bring in a counter ir wall, usually the latter so Taunt gives me the opportunity to break it. Waterfall is a great physical STAB.

Gigalith @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SpD
Moveset:
-Explosion
-Stealth Rocks
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Explosion makes up for the minus momentum of switching cause I just go boom. EdgeQuake is good coverage. Rocks drops Sash and Sturdy guys.

Mismagius @ Life Orb
Trait: W/E
Nature: Modest
EVs: 192 HP/252 SpA/60 Spe
Moveset:
-Nasty Plot
-Heal Bell
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fire

Mismagius Heal Bells my statused Pokés and can potentially sweep. Nasty Plot lets me get +2s instantly and allows my SBalls and HP Fire to damage walls harder and eliminate them quickly. Shadow Ball is obvious STAB and HP Fire wrecks Ferrothorn and Scizor.

 

[New World Order]

Very interesting Pocket, sweet team.

Anyone mind doing a stall or defensive team, it would be greatly appreciated. (not to steal just as an example)

Stall teams simply rely on checking EVERYTHING, and beat people down with hazards and such.

First, lets name the 10 most dangerous pokemon in the metagame: Dragonite, Thundurus, Reuniclus, Excadrill, Volcorona, Landorus, Latios, Haxorus, Terrakion, Salamence. Reuniclus and Salamence are two seperate monsters of their own because of the havoc they can wreak against a stall team, and must be dealt with immediately.

Immediately, design a defensive core to ensure you have an answer to all these threats listed above. Any stall team that cannot handle them is doomed for instant failure. Specially Defensive Jirachi allows us to scratch Reuniclus and Latios from the list immediately, as well as check Dragonite, Thundurus, Haxorus and Salamence to an extent. The next addition to the team is Swords Dance Taunt Gliscor, who allows us to scratch Excadrill, Terrakion, and Landorus to an extent. The last pokemon you need to address is Volcorona, a great answer to it is Specially Defensive Heatran, who can also absorb fire moves aimed at Jirachi.

Next we aim to shut down weather. Gliscor and Heatran have sand and sun generally covered between each other. That leaves rain. CM Latias is a great choice because of its defensive synergy with the core. The fact that it gives Thundurus as well as a number of pokemon who should also be near the top of you list like Starmie and Infernape a tough time doesn't hurt either.

Now that the 10 most dangerous threats and weather have been dealth with, the team should look at hazards. A great pokemon for the job is Forretress, since either Jirachi or Heatran can carry SR. Forry can run the other two and Rapid Spin.

The last thing the stall team needs to address is a way to deal with opposing stall teams. Jellicent is a great choice, because not only does it give stall problems, it also doubles as your spinblocker.

Now you play around with sets. You realize that Heatran, Forretress, and Jellicent are all great status distributors. Subtect Gliscor is a great abuser, being able to check Excadrill as well as ever because you can afford to carry Ice Fang over Toxic. Also shits all over Conkeldurr and a variety of other threats.

When making a stall team, its always important to keep current metagame shifts in mind. If there's a sudden spike in DD Mence usage, you might want to swap out Jirachi for a CB Scizor. If Garchomp is brought back into OU, you might consider swapping Heatran for a Bronzong.

This team I crapped out in 10 minutes isn't actually half bad. I just laddered it for a while on PO and went 6-1. For those that want to steal it:

Hide

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
Careful
252 Hp/ 224 SpD/ 32 Spe
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish (This is mainly to assist Forry)
- Fire Punch (This is for Gengar, who gave me problems one match)

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Impish
252 Hp/ 176 Def/ 80 Spe
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Heatran @ Leftovers (considering Air Balloon)
Flash Fire
Calm
252 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Protect/ Roar (Roar only if Air Balloon)
- Stealth Rock

Latias @ Leftovers
Levitate
Timid
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost (because it sounds cooler that Recover)
- Roar

Forretress @ Shed Shell
Sturdy
Relaxed
252 Hp/ 176 Def/ 80 SpD/ 0 Speed IVs
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball (for Outrage locked Haxorus/ Salamence, which btw caused my only loss)

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Bold
244 Hp/ 216 Def/ 44 Spe
- Scald
- Will-o-Wisp (enough Toxic users already)
- Taunt
- Recover

 

[NeoSeth]

I think flow is important in a good team. Yeah, it's great that your Taunt Gyarados can set-up on Skarmory, but you need to have ways of drawing out the Pokemon you want. You have to able to bring out what you want went you want. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, since it's kind of abstract. But the important part of a team is how it gives you all of the tools you need to continue with one of your strategies.

Let's look at a team I built recently. My favorite play style is what most people would probably call "Bulky Offense". I prefer to call it "Offensive Balance", but whatever. My physical and special tanks are Gliscor and Latias, respectively. Not only do they take their hits, but they can set up and sweep right back. It gives me a way to force switches and build up offensive momentum even while my opponent tries to hit back, so I can keep any one of my strategies going and ultimately pull off a sweep with any one of my offensive mons (Ironically, Scarfzone has gotten more kills than any other Pokemon on my team haha. It's a great cleaner.) Each Pokemon also brings in Pokemon that the other Pokemon love to set up on. Gliscor brings in Starmie, which is easy set-up for Latias. Then I have Mag to kill Steels that Latias brings in and lure EQs for Latias/Gliscor. Every single Pokemon on my team performs multiple roles, some even overlapping with each other so I always have multiple options.

Basically, I think the most important element of a team is it's adaptability, allowing it to react to any sort of situation with a plan for victory and it's versatility, so it doesn't have to rely on just one strategy. It's also important to keep pressure on your opponent, whether it's making them worry about a sweep with your Excadrill or the timer you put them on with Toxic Spikes.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Very interesting read new world order, I actually run a similar stall team (well atleast I use to, now I am heading over to rain stall).

One question though, what purpose does Jirachi have on the team? I know at first it is there to counter Reunicles, Thundurus, and Latios, but by the end, you have already a few pokemon to deal with them (except Thundurus). So wouldn't Blissey or something else be better in its place? I an just theorymoning though, it seems like a solid team.

 

[SlimMan]

Gliscor brings in Starmie, which is easy set-up for Latias.

252/4 Latias gets 2HKOed by Starmie's LO Ice Beam. And that's without Stealth Rock up. Yes, I factored in Leftovers on Latias.
Yes, VERY easy set-up for Latias. >_> It can't even switch in, lol.

Starmie should always use Ice Beam vs Gliscor (unless the opposing team is really weak to Water and strong against Ice) because the last thing you want is for Hydro Pump to miss and get KO'ed by a +2 Earthquake.

 

[New World Order]

Lol, the entire team was made through theorymon, since I've only played ~15 games or something with it (I want to use the plethora of weather teams I've made one last time, since I have a feeling the voters are going to disappoint and ban permaweather). I personally don't like using Blissey. Like at all. Way too unreliable. The only time I use it is if I want to wishpass, and even then, I always find myself using Chansey at the end. I think for this case, Quagsire would be the best choice instead of Jirachi. Quagsire fits the team's theme of Toxic stalling, takes Reuniclus and Thundurus like nobody's business, and can help against random shit you never prepare for like NP Lucario. With Stockpile Quaggy also becomes a monster that just wont die to anything but grass moves.

For anyone that wants to steal:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Unaware
Calm
252 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def
Scald
Toxic
Stockpile
Recover

 

[Aeromence]

My offencive teambuilding formula: I normally go with a main sweeper, a counter counter for it, a secondary sweeper, a glue pokemon, and the rest are walls or supporters

 

[Katakiri]

Sun involves outright sweeping with Venasaur/Swasbuck/Darmatian.

I laughed pretty hard at that. Such an amazing stereotype.

 

[True]

That quagsire of yours is nothing original , ive come across it a few times and used it myself a few times. Just toxic it or trick it a scarf and hes dead meat for the rest of the match ( just like gastrodon). I really like playing with my favorites pokes and utilizing movesets/combos that arent common. An example of this core wich i had great succes with , consisting of tyranitar-weezing-cradily :

Ttar @ lum berry 252 hp/ 52 atk/176 spa / 28 spe
Nature : Quiet Ability : sandstream
Moves : Substitute / ice beam / dark pulse / focus punch

Old tboah used as a lead. Works great for bluffing SR and then set up a sub and pick your move of choice. Takes care of blissey ,chandelure , most gengar , deoxysleads,hydreigon ,latios/latias , starmie,and other tyranitar, ninetailes leads , if u want to take on toads replace a move with tbolt ( wich 2koes non specdef variants).

Weezing @ black sludge , 252 hp/ 252 def /4 spa
Nature : bold ability : levitate
Moves : fire blast , pain split ,will o wisp/toxic , stockpile

A physicall wall , and great in OU. Takes on excadrill all day long. Most fighters are screwed by status , and even if they carry guts weezing can simply utilze stockpile to keep up with the boosts and keep on walling until they die. Checks terrakion , physical vizirion , scizor , skarmory ( physical defensive is 2koed by fire blast) , landorus , hippodown ,breloom, physical ttars , haxrachi , conkulldurr , bronzong is 3koed by using wow and fire blast 2 times ( tough the burn is usually enough to make it useless , and burns dragonites while dnite needs +2 and life orb to ko weezing with outrage.

Cradily @ leftovers , 252 hp ,252 spdef , 4 def
Nature : careful Ability : suction cups
Moves : curse , rock slide , seed bomb, rest

This thing is simply amazing , it reaches 374 hp /516 spdef and 230 def in a sandstorm. She walls EVERY special attacker in OU , as even a timid 252spa/252speed volcarona needs +3 spa and life orb to ko with bug buzz. Meaning cradily can even switch in on the SECOND quiver dance and still ko with rock slide. Sets up on : Latios , latias , blissey , jellicent , skarmory ,ferrothorn , ferrothorn, magnezone, espeon , heatran ,ninetailes and toad if sand is up! , porygon2 ,starmie, thunderus , vaporeon ,whimsicott, gliscors without taunt , tentacruel , swampert , chandelure , gengar ( focus blast has CHANCE at a 3ko if it hits 3 times in a row , 252spa timid@lifeorb). Stopped cold by taunt or trick.However if taunted it can simply switch out and come back in , taking only 51 % from a specslatios's draco meteor (wich isnt even a 2ko with leftovers if he didnt had the stats drops. Rest is necesarry because when people see they dont do enough damage they will either toxic you , or try to whirlwind you out (wich will fail thanks to suction cups).

I got bored from this core , so i tought why not share it :).

 

[Gideon]

Can somebody show how to make a hyper offense team? For both physical and special.

To make a heavy offense team you need to have physical sweepers that have the same counters to each others plus a check to Exca.

You'd start with a suicide lead such as Deoxys-s to set up hazards which help sweepers tremendously.

An Example would be
Lead Deoxys-S
CB Conkeldurr
SD Lucario
SD Terrakion
DD Haxorus
DD Salamence

Basically, Lucario and Terrakion have similar counters in Gliscor, which would allow one to hit the gliscor and the other to break through to sweep. Haxorus and Salamence do the same with steels.

Conkeldurr is there to check Excadrill with banded Mach Punch which OHKO's. You need that there or you lose to Exca.

This isn't a perfect team. It's an example of how you would about building one.

 

[NeoSeth]

So I made a non-weather team the other day very quickly just to test out some ideas about team-building. Here's the process:

First off, since I myself am not changing the weather, I need to cover each weather style fairly effectively with my defensive core. Immediately, three Pokemon become apparant:

Gliscor covers sand teams very nicely, Heatran covers Sun teams and Ferrothorn covers Rain. It's not perfect, but it gives a reliable defensive core. Now for the sets, I'm going to run SD Gliscor, Standard Spiker Ferrothorn and a Heatran set with SR. So I've established that I want my defensive core to set up hazards and wear the opponent down. So I need that in mind with my offensive core.

Lucario appreciates the hazards like no other. It's SD set is monstrous with SR and Spikes up, and with boosted Extremespeed it can break through a ton of otherwise sure-fire counters once hazards are up. He's my go-to choice as the main sweeper. Afterwards I add in Gengar to force switches and block Rapid-Spin. He also gives Lucario a chance to come in on Tyranitar. I also add in NP Celebi to hit hard early game and break open my opponen't team. Now, the team as a whole:

Now that I have the whole team to look at, I notice that I can easily force a lot of switches with my Pokemon. Heatran and Ferrothorn can capitalize on this with SR and Spikes, along with Leech Seed and T-Wave on Ferrothorn. Gengar and Celebi also force huge switches thanks to their massive offensive presence, while Gliscor forces switches with his great bulk. All of the hazards will wear down the opposing team enough for Lucario to sweep easily late-game. To help with this, I decided to make Heatran a shuffler with Lava Plume/Roar/Protect/SR. With a Specially-Defensive spread, he can switch in often and wear the opposition down with Roar once hazards are up. Gliscor's SD set works fine, I can stick with that. I decided to use SubSplit on Gengar to force more switches and capitalize on most Pokemon's aversion to staying in on Gengar (Although Starmie sucks). Celebi and Lucario don't really have many other options, so I leave them be.

After testing the team, it works really well (Especially for a team that took maybe ten minutes to make). I have a bit of a Fire-weakness, so I'm considering replacing Celebi with something like RestTalk DD Gyarados with Dragon Tail, or maybe Dragonite/Fatmence. Although I have a bit of a Machamp weakness, and I don't want something Machamp can just Ice Punch and KO, so Gyarados is a very appealing option. Intimidate also forces switches. I've also considered adding Toxic Spikes, maybe on Roserade, but I don't see how that would help too much. But as it is, the team works very well. It has a goal (SD Lucario sweep) that it accomplishes very well with it's hazard-shuffling strategy. Thanks to the numerous resistances on the team, I have chances to bring in what I want when I want, i.e Gengar lures in Tyranitar, escapes Pursuit thanks to it's Sub, and then Lucario comes in and wins. I must say I'm actually surprised with how well it's done for me. I'll put up the Import later when I'm on my laptop.

EDIT: Here it is.

Hide

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Taunt
- Swords Dance

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Pain Split

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- ExtremeSpeed
- Swords Dance

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic