Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Also, as a more minor suggestion, have you considered Hidden Power Fire over EQ on Venusaur? You get the jump on Ferrothorn and Skarmory, which are much more threatening than Heatran (which can be dealt with Chansey or Quag) You still hit Mega Mawile pretty hard too, so you won't lose out on that end.
[/quote]
I agree w/ this man 100%, or ferrothorn would just annoy the hell out of you. Or give Gengar HP fire/focus blast for it.
There was nothing funny about that replay other than you trying to toxic a steel-type and letting Krookodile die to Ludicolo when you have a Mega Venusaur that can eat whatever Ludicolo wants to do and proceed to kill it. Sending in Gengar right after Krookodile dies just to give your opponent a 5-4 lead was also a really good play on your part. You Sludge Bombing a Mega Scizor on Turn 13 shows how "good" you are too.
On to the rate itself, firstly I think you should run at 112 hp evs on Gengar so 0ev Mega Venusaur can't touch even break your sub bar hp fire, and even then you can WoW and cripple it. I don't think you need all that speed evs (although opposing Gengar can be problematic), I think just outrunning base 100s should be enough. Your team handles Heatran pretty well too so HP Fire might be better than EQ.
Nice team, but shouldn't Krookodile run enough speed to outrun Bisharp so a +1 / +3 Iron Head doesn't fuck it over? (And before you say you have a Quagsire, all it takes is a Grass Knot Bisharp and then everything dies, except maybe WoW Gengar I'll admit, but it still can't switch in. I'm sure the extra insurance would be greatly appreciated, especially considering how frail Gengar is.) You only need about 80 Spe EVs to outrun Bisharp, although zero speed investment is required on a Jolly-natured Krookodile. (This makes Taunt a lot more efficient against other stall teams as well.)
Personally Toxic over Heal Bell on Chansey -- I've only seen Heal Bell Chansey work well when paired with Mega-RestTalk Garchomp, as besides from hax-overload, spreading Toxic status (or Thunder Wave to stop sweepers and take some pressure of Quags) is usually going to be more useful.
I'd use Haze Quagsire and not Yawn because of Baton Pass, since they pretty much do the same thing (only with Yawn, and the opponent gets the advantage of sleep foddering whatever they wish -- mind you, you put SOMETHING to sleep, but the point still stands where Haze is slightly more efficient.)
Please note I don't play stall often, so I'm not the most qualified person for this. (Just because I understand how stall plays doesn't mean I understand the nit-picky stuff as much, which as kinda what this rate is.) Regardless, I'm glad to be seeing a unique stall team (I usually see the one you had in the first Teambuilding process 24/7, lol).
By the way, I'd like to stress how Manaphy weak you are when Chansey isn't running Toxic or Thunder Wave -- Manaphy at +6 wins hands down. You really can't afford not to run a status move on it, really. Otherwise you are REALLY hard pressed to keep Venusaur 100% healthy the entire game.
(Also I could swear I ran into this team before it was RMTd, but it wasn't the alt you advertised so I'm assuming this team has lost on another alt since I know for sure I beat this team -- Analytic Starmie pretty much won me the game, and I think bulky Mega DD ZardX easily set up on the Gengar, too, since you only have Quags for that (and I was running Taunt Bisharp on that team, so I stunted its Recover iirc). I'm not telling you what alt on Showdown I am though since it's not too important, lol, just felt like pointing it out.)
Thanks for the more recent posts. And, like I've said, the only reason I have EQ on Venu is to prevent Tran from grabbing free turns for setting Rocks and whatnot. It's just a lot harder to manage than Ferrothorn.
Great suggestion for Krookodile, Shurtugal, I have lost to Grass Knot Bisharp by the way :|
The only reason Haze is on there is for the ladder, where BP is common. Elsewhere Yawn is better and prevents free turns yadayada
I've never had a problem keeping Venusaur healthy for Manaphy, but I can't tell you how many matches I've lost to Manaphy getting a +6 Freeze or Crit.. I'd love to have Toxic on Chansey, but the team really needs Heal Bell, because of how slow it plays you're bound to be bombarded by Status. And with Keldeo spamming Scald on Venuaur, a Cleric is really needed to keep Venusaur at a good HP so that Keldeo doesn't push through so quickly.
(I don't remember losing to Analytic Starmie, I'd probably remember that, but I have been giving out this version of the team for some time. So perhaps it was someone else? Or just me spamming matches.. I've laddered on so many alts with this team, dropping and forfeit spamming each of them after only two losses.)
I'm Completely new to stall so please excuse me if some of the questions sounds noobish.
you mentioned in your description that the point of the team is to keep rocks up and eventually something will give. if that's the case is it not very risky to only have one hazard setter?
On the same train of thought, would it not work to have Skarmory as a second hazard setter:
I'm assuming prediction between Chansey and Gengar; after a Seismic Toss and Stealth Rock, Gengar can switch in to Lando's Focus Blast and has a chance to KO with Shadow Ball, but that's fairly situational. Overall that's my guess though, play well with the blob and Gengar.
Here's a thought. I've tried Crawdaunt before with Life Orb and Knock Off, Crabhammer, and Aqua Jet. If Crawdaunt comes in after Chansey causes one of my Pokemon to faint. I can send in Crawdaunt and proceed with Knock Off. Crawdaunt can 2HKO any member on this team and wreck havoc if Mega Venusaur isn't evolved or healthy.
Here's a thought. I've tried Crawdaunt before with Life Orb and Knock Off, Crabhammer, and Aqua Jet. If Crawdaunt comes in after Chansey causes one of my Pokemon to faint. I can send in Crawdaunt and proceed with Knock Off. Crawdaunt can 2HKO any member on this team and wreck havoc if Mega Venusaur isn't evolved or healthy.
TFL is running the only Pokemon in existence that can truly "wall" Crawdaunt by using Mega Venusaur:
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
TFL is running the only Pokemon in existence that can truly "wall" Crawdaunt by using Mega Venusaur:
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 120 Def Toxicroak: 172-203 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
OHKO'd and compensated for with Drain Punch. Outspeeds, and Crawdaunt's priority is counterproductive in this scenario.
This is straying away from the point, though. He doesn't have a Crawdaunt weakness.
TFL is running the only Pokemon in existence that can truly "wall" Crawdaunt by using Mega Venusaur:
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 60+ Def Mega Venusaur: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
This is a really sucky and annoying proposition but on the aegislash variants of the team (for lati@s) going Blissey over Chansey (I can't believe I'm saying this...) will help with knock off landorus-I. Also, sometimes you could consider putting pursuit on Krookodile for gothitelle, but w/e.
Why do you run 252 HP on your mons instead of 248?
Good team ofc, very nice, but starting to tend towards semistall THE HORROR
Sableyes typing is fantastic and also has a great immunity to psychic, fighting and Normal types. its only weakness in Fairies can be covered by Venusaur or Chansey in case of Special attacks.
I like it over Gengar because it has prankster, and priority taunt and will o wisp does give the team a second wind if a mistake was made. while knock off can cripple a lot of would be walls, and priority recover ensures that sableye can function as a stall in a pinch.
Also how do you deal with Togekiss and its paraflinch?
Hi! I was wondering, isn't it handy to have a thunder wave on Chansey instead of either softboiled or wish? If you play your cards right you can receive your own wish.
It's paraflinch for crying out loud. It's luck based, so you either get lucky or you don't. There's honestly no point in trying to have a dedicated paraflinch counter.
It's paraflinch for crying out loud. It's luck based, so you either get lucky or you don't. There's honestly no point in trying to have a dedicated paraflinch counter.
Teh fgts dat nevr die ~ Thank you based Sugarhigh for the team name ~ Peaked rank 1 at 18,774
later, another ladder alt was able to win the first 49 matches
This picture couldn't be more related, thanks Dread.
Coz ya asked for it
It was literally that obvious.
Heatran was replaced by Krookodile for its ability to manhandle Aegislash. It's also better versus Sand teams than Heatran.
Aegislash was swapped out with another Ghost type, Gengar. Its ability to handle opposing stall and balanced teams was just too useful.
Short Introduction: This isn't technically my first RMT since I had helped out with a RMT for this team of mine. Anywho, I built this team the week after Megas were properly implemented and, over the course of many battles, believe it to be perfected (the team, not the play style). And this isn't so much a RMT as it is a team showcase, but if you've got suggestions - post them.
Team Preview:
This team is pretty self explanatory, you keep hazards off your side and try to keep Stealth Rock up on theirs. Chip damage will accumulate and wear down your opponent's team until it eventually gives.
In Depth:
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Defense / 80 Speed
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Taunt - Knock Off - Earthquake - Stealth Rock
Krookodile took over Heatran's position. It's even a better Stealth Rock user, beats any Aegislash lacking Flash Cannon, and really pulls its weight against Sand teams. And the last one is huge, being built around Venusaur and all.
Set Explanation:
-Taunt: is used to combat the opposition's utility. ie. Defog, Stealth Rock, and Recovery moves.
-Knock Off: hits things for good damage and has the great added effect of destroying items, which can be very handy against so many teams.
-Earthquake: is another obligatory move for Krookodile, it hits Mega Charizard X, Tyranitar, Excadrill, and so many others.
-Stealth Rock: is something that almost every team needs, and Krookodile's a great user of the move. The most common Defog users, the Eon twins, don't want to risk a Knock Off KO and Krook's speed allows it to Taunt the slower users of the move. And did I mention, Excadrill risks its life Spinning against him?
Edit: Now running enough Speed for Adamant Max Bisharp
Mega Venusaur may not wall everything, and it doesn't have to, it has rest of the team's help for that. What makes it so good is that it's able to beat most of the metagame in one on one situations. And that's always happening, once Venusaur is in - you can count on it doing something productive. That's what makes it such a powerful defensive Mon.
Venusaur's also the reason why Knock Off rarely poses a threat.
Set Explanation:
-Synthesis: is Venusaur's recovery move of choice.
-Giga Drain: is mostly there to hit Manaphy and Mega Gyarados, gaining HP from an attacking move is a nice thing too.
-Earthquake: is used to hit key Pokemon hard. ie. Heatran and Mawile
-Sludge Bomb: hits a lot of the Pokemon that switch into Venusaur pretty hard. And it has the chance to Poison those switch-ins
Hits an odd HP number, which means it switches into Stealth Rock one more time. 60 Defense is used to avoid the 2HKO from Life Orb Terrakion. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Defense to help tank hits from Thundurus, Keldeo, Manaphy, etc.
Good 'ol SkarmBlissChansey. Skarmory's a needed Ground immunity and Defog user. It's also a great switch-in to Physical Dragons and is awesome at punishing U-turn. And, with a little luck, Skarmory can beat the few physical sweepers that are able take out Quagsire.
Set Explanation:
-Roost: is Skarmory's needed recovery move.
-Defog: is needed to keep Hazards off.
-Taunt: pairs well with Defog (and Counter) to stop them from spamming away Defog's PP. It's also helpful against defensively-inclined teams.
-Counter: You might think me weird for using this over Brave Bird, but here me out: It nets a bunch of surprise KOs and takes care of Mega Gyarados, Swords Dance Excadrill, Mega Mawile, etc. None of which can be handled with Brave Bird.
I'm glad good players see Quagsire for its strengths. It's viable. And it's good. Quagsire beats most setup sweepers (because of Unaware[it ignores the opponent's stat boosts]) and even lets the team handle Suicune (via Haze). It's cool typing lets it switch into most Volt Switch users too and, once it hits them with Toxic, the Volt-Turn spam dies down. Did I mention this thing walls both Mega Charizard X and Bisharp?! Suck a fat one, Clefable.
Set Explanation: -Haze: is something few people expect, having the utility to auto-win against Baton Pass teams and deal with certain boosting sweepers far outweigh hitting a few things for decent damage with Earthquake. With Baton Pass Chain's upcoming nerf I don't have to use Haze anymore! Thank goodness!
-Toxic: puts a lot of Pokemon on a timer. And that's a great thing for stall.
- Yawn: is a good tool, because it can act as a Phazing move, forcing a switch. It also stops certain Pokemon from grabbing free switches and sleeping something can create an opening for Gengar to set up a free Substitute.
-Scald: is Quagsire's damage-dealing move of choice that has a cool 30% chance to Burn.
-Recover: is there to keep you healthy, just spam it when there's something Statused in front of you :)
No Physical Attacks. No Attack IVs. No Problem.
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish - Heal Bell - Soft-Boiled - Seismic Toss
Good 'ol SkarmBlissChansey. This Blob covers a ridiculous amount of Special Attackers and is the epitome of utility. This set guarantees the team stays healthy for a long time. And a team with no endgame usually takes a long time :3
And for those of you that may argue Blissey over Chansey, because of Knock Off: The Pokemon that use Knock Off already pose a threat to the Blobs, there's no reason to let Chansey get hit by it.
Set Explanation:
-Wish: Bombs the team to keep it healthy.
-Heal Bell: is used, because most teams possess some form of Status-inducing.
-Seismic Toss: is Chansey's only way of dealing damage (outside of Toxic).
I decided to go with the old standard, because Chansey's needed to take Psyshock now.
Gengar is the team's needed stall breaker. Gengar pulls its weight against every team and its speed is useful for getting you out of some tough spots.
Set Explanation:
-Taunt: completely wrecks non-offense teams with the help of Wisp.
-Substitute: blocks Status and is easy to set up against certain Pokemon.
-Will-O-Wisp: is obviously used to Burn Pokemon. Slower teams are usually helpless against this Gengar because of it and Wisp is useful for putting certain Pokemon on a timer.
-Shadow Ball: is a great damaging move with little resists, fairly obvious.
This EV spread prevents Clefable and Venusaur from breaking its Substitute.
Conclusion: In conclusion, this team scored higher than any of you or any other team.
Feel free to use the team. And have fun trying out stall (you won't).
You'll probably notice my move OCD, they have to be in order from shortest to longest! (I've included both the original and most recent version of the team):
Krookodile (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spd
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
