The 1v1 Metagame [Focus Sash is Unbanned]

Focus Sash

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  • Poll closed .
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Badal

Badal

Shit
is a Contributor Alumnus
1v1 Metagame
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Suspect
Approved by Jibaku

The suspect ladder is up on the beta server of Pokémon online. The current ladder rankings will continue, though at the end of the week, the focus sash will be banned until a decision is taken. Everyone can post in the thread regarding whether they think it should be banned/unbanned and their experience with the Focus Sash item unbanned for a week
Current Rules
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• 1 vs 1: Each player will only bring 1 pokemon into the battle.
• Hax Items Clause: Bright Powder, Focus Band, Quick Claw, Lax Incense, King's Rock, Razor Fang, Scope Lens, and Razor Claw cannot be held by your pokemon.
• Soul Dew Clause: Soul Dew cannot be held by your pokemon.
• Focus Sash Clause: Focus Sash cannot be held by your pokemon.
 • Evasion Clause: A pokemon may not use Double Team or Minimize.
• Accuracy Clause: A pokemon may not use Flash, Kinesis, Sand-attack, or Smokescreen.
• OHKO Clause: A pokemon may not use Horn Drill, Sheer Cold, Guillotine,or Fissure.
• Self KO Clause: A pokemon may not use Destiny Bond, Explosion, Perish Song, or Selfdestruct.
• Uber Clause: Players cannot use Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys (All Forms), Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Salamence, Shaymin-S, Wobbuffet, Wynaut.



PO 1v1 Stats [September]

5 Most Used Pokemon (1->5)
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Join #1v1 on IRC for more discussion on this subject.​
How to Join: Use anyone of these, in browser on firefox, download for Windows, download for Windows and Linux, download for Mac, to get onto IRC. Then type "/join #1v1" to get to the channel.

The bolded clause is the clause that is at question. This thread's purpose is for discussion whether the removal of this clause should be done or not. This topic is up for suspect testing. This thread is a medium to provide us with enough information whether we should have a suspect test for this or not. Whether this clause will/will not affect the metagame. If the thread decides that a suspect test will do good, then the owner of Pokémon Online- A simulator that has a 1v1 ladder- coyotte508, is hosting a suspect ladder.

I hope this thread helps us decide whether the fate of the 1v1 Metagame

Suspect Voting
Method
Options:
- Win one of the 1v1 Tournaments held on Pokémon Online in the Beta Server, the winners of tournaments will be posted here. So claim here for the position to vote if you do want to vote.
- Post your highest ladder ranking along with a screenshot for proof, if you're doing this, then along with this post why you should be allowed to vote.

The voting will start on 25th of September, if all goes according to plan


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I originally banned Focus Sash through pure theorymon. Whilst talking about holding the 1v1 tournament and metagame, it seemed like Focus Sash could be way too powerful and over-centralizing so it was banned. However, I had always planned on Suspect tests for Focus Sash (as well as several Pokemon), but had neither a simulator nor enough wifi player base to get any real results for anything. I approve of the suspect test.
 
Honestly, I would severely hope that Focus Sash would remain banned. It would be relatively simple for something to simply hit -hard-, then follow up with Quick Attack fo all things. I would think it completely overcentralizing, as much so as Choice Items seem to be for 1v1 now.

This doesn't mean I'm against testing for that clause. On the contrary. I just feel that it should be remaining regardless.
 
I think certain Pokemon like Shedinja should be allowed Focus Sash. It is not broken on Shedinja... seriously. In fact, it becomes a necessity for use.
 
hhjj said:
I think certain Pokemon like Shedinja should be allowed Focus Sash. It is not broken on Shedinja... seriously. In fact, it becomes a necessity for use.
Click to expand...


Shedinja is often unkillable enough by certain Poke depending on your choice for 1v1. Like my Bronzong.
 
hhjj said:
I think certain Pokemon like Shedinja should be allowed Focus Sash. It is not broken on Shedinja... seriously. In fact, it becomes a necessity for use.
Click to expand...

Not really, in 1v1 if you can hit it you win, if you can't, you cant. Shedinja doesnt have the power to kill most pokes in the time it takes to hit him twice.
 
Focus Sash is hardly broken or centralizing. Sash will ultimately bring more strategy into the game; it's one more thing to take into account and plan for, while giving you more things to use as well. Focus Sash still can't beat priority (which 3 of the top 5 [should] carry), flinching (1 of top 5, 2 of top 10), and it prevents people from grabbing the most powerful thing they can, slapping a choice item on there, and trying to OHKO everything. Remember that both people can use it as well...which cancels out.

It's just like any other item, it beats some things and loses to others. It's hard to take 1v1 seriously while it's banned.
 
hhjj said:
U mean when it uses Swords Dance (Focus Sash turn) and Sucker Punch, that isn't strong enough to kill anything?
Click to expand...

+2 Sucker punch from 252 Adamant Shedinja does:
Top 5 used 1v1 pokemon
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63.7% - 75.2% to 4/0 Porygon-z
43.4% - 51.6% to 0/0 Jirachi
27.6% - 32.6%% to 4/0 Machamp
48% - 56.7% to 0/0 Dragonite
33.8% - 39.6% to 0/0 Infernape

Others
39.2% - 46.5% to 0/0 Metagross
33.8% - 39.9% to 0/0 Slaking
41.5% - 48.8% to 0/252 Bold Blissey
49.8% - 58.8% to 0/0 Togekiss

I think this is enough, my point stands that Focus Sash doesnt really help sheddy much in 1v1
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I think it is necessary, and I don't think sash will centralize that much. When I first started playing, I thought it would, but now with some expirience, I don't think it will. I think sash's niche will be on strategical sets; not just put on a fast frail poke so they can hit twice. I will say that if the tests go through, I will start to pick bulkier pokes just in case noobs do sash will a frail attacker.
 
I think sash is broken because it makes it so stuff like endeavor + quick attack pokemon usable This forces everyone to carry a ghost/steel type, leftovers, tyranitar, hippowdon, abombaonw, or priority. I think it over centralizes the metagame and is not helpful.
 
Sash makes FEAR possible, yes. That doesn't mean everyone will use it. Slaking gets a fair amount of use, and its beaten by anything that carries Protect. FEAR is just another strategy that could be used. It also dies to Trick users, and Sleep abusers.
 
Right now, only a certain number of strategies are being used since currently the F.E.A.R strategy is invalid. Though if the sash is unbanned, then obviously fear pokemon will increase and then newer strategies, maybe leftovers, maybe priority moves, this will show a change in the standard metagame.
I approve of the suspect test
 
I really think a suspect test for 1 v. 1 would be interesting. We could even see how some ubers do in this tier (not Wobufett). Then we could create new tiers just for thus metagame. I'm more of an ubers player so I don't know how important my opinion is, but anyway I approve of the suspect testing
 
From a pure "theory of the game" perspective, I do not see why focus sash would be banned. There are a couple hard counters to it, namely priority moves (especially Fake Out) and Tyranitar/Abomasnow/Hippowdon. Just as importantly, using Focus Sash means that you are not using Lum Berry, opening yourself up to an early sleep or paralysis. And in a metagame where falling asleep is a likely loss this is obviously important.

Not allowing focus sash also opens people up to spamming Hyper Beam, Blast Burn, etc., which provide easy one hit KOs. I'm assuming this is why Porygon-Z is popular at all (STAB Adaptability Hyper Beam).
 
Aqueos said:
Abomasnow with focus sash says hi.
Click to expand...

Mamoswine with focus sash, Ice Shard, Endeavor, Sleep Talk and Earthquake says hello. FEAR with a SS and Hail resist and a way to beat sleep. Enjoy, metagame.

Regardless, I think suspect testing would be a good idea for a bit, although I do think that it will still end up banned because of pokemon like mamo.
 
Athenodoros said:
Mamoswine with focus sash, Ice Shard, Endeavor, Sleep Talk and Earthquake says hello. FEAR with a SS and Hail resist and a way to beat sleep. Enjoy, metagame.
Click to expand...

Enjoy, prediction. You sleep talk to a faster pokemon with a sleep move (lets say gengar) and you die. You endeavor wrongly first turn, you die. You do basically anything wrong, in this metagame, you die, so I don't see how a focus sash would ruin the hideousness that is this metagame in being all prediction and luck.

I'm with TAY, 1v1 may be a silly metagame strategically (by my own opinion) but, from what I can tell focus sash isn't broken, it's just not the most pleasant item to encounter.
 
I respectfully disagree that 1v1 is silly strategically, but eveyone is entitled to thier opinion, and I can see why people might think that. @ endevor mamoswine it has solid counters. 2hkos are a big one. Say your set can easily ohko mamo. You select a different move to break sash and do minimal damage, then hammer mamo down with the move that ohkos. And your saying "the screws up choice users completely" well select a move that can 2hko and keep you out of ice shard's range. It's true some choice users will get messed up, but it's not that the metagame will get completely screwed. Ultimally, as Kitten Bukkake says, it comes down to good prediction, which really is what being good at competitive in general pokemon is about.
As everyone else is doing it I approve of the suspect test.
 
The suspect ladder is available on Pokémon Online for a week. After this period, depending on public desicion, the focus sash will be banned or unbanned
 
I'm curious about the Ubers clause. What's Uber by 6v6 standards isn't necessary Uber by 1v1 standards (e.g., some OUs are probably much more devastating/have much more killing power than, say, Deoxys-S, who was banned under the support clause.
 
From the past 6 hours straight of laddering on the PO ladder, I can say that the focus sash isn't doing much to the metagame except forcing many of the normal pokémon to add a priority move and also, is reducing Porygon-z's (thank lords)
 
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