The 5th Generation Starting Line: Initial Metagames

[Chou Toshio]

I would just point out that singles battles with No Preview over IR can allow for the full 6 pokemon, and (especially since IR battles are local) you could impose a "no miracle shooter" rule/clause, just like wifi sleep clause. That's how my friends and I play singles here in Japan.

read: If you really wanted a singles metagame with no miracle shooter and no team preview, it is possible.

It just should never be standard because IR will rules > Wifi Rules will alienate the wifi community, and Wifi is the platform of international cartridge play.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

But didn't we alienate the Wi-Fi community by allowing Rotom-App, Shaymin-S and Giratina-O back in DPPt? And as much as I don't like this argument, we play with Wish Blissey and Tickle Wobbuffet allowed, isn't this already alienating the huge majority of the Wi-Fi community (I mean I've only seen one usable Wishbliss on Wi-Fi when I was active there, and I was never sure whether it was legit or not)?

 

[Chou Toshio]

Just because we did it doesn't mean it was exactly right . . . >__>

I do feel like allowing / disallowing a few different pokemon is much more minor than the impact battle preview has on the way battles work.

 

[capefeather]

read: If you really wanted a singles metagame with no miracle shooter and no team preview, it is possible.

I think that you could have said something earlier... Nonetheless, it is interesting that we've broken away from previous-generation precedent in this case.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Just because we did it doesn't mean it was exactly right . . . >__>

I do feel like allowing / disallowing a few different pokemon is much more minor than the impact battle preview has on the way battles work.

Yes, I agree Team Preview has a much bigger impact than a couple pokémon. I just hope we realize we have IR as an option should we ever find Team Preview to be "uncompetitive" (not "slightly worse", but "really bad").

And about IR rules... It has lv50 auto-level and Item Clause as mandatory, right?

 

[Chou Toshio]

:S I'm not sure about item Clause, will have to look into that . . . Auto lv50 is yes.

 

[Bologo]

Since we've started suspect testing, I have a question. Do we have some sort of system in place for what I like to call 'chain nominations'? Basically, a chain nomination would be when a pokemon gets nominated as a suspect round after round after round until people eventually just stop caring and it gets banned by the loud voters who keep nominating it.

An example of this would be Raikou in DP UU, who got voted UU several times, but kept getting nominated over and over until it eventually got banned. I'm not saying whether this was the right thing to do since I don't know how broken Raikou was since I wasn't a UU player, but that's what happened.

Do we have some sort of system that protects against something like this from happening? Unless there's a significant change in the metagame where pokemon get new moves or something, it seems absurd to allow a pokemon to keep getting nominated as a suspect repeatedly until non-ban voters just get tired of having to qualify to vote just to keep the thing in its tier.

I realize that there might be a special case where a whole fuckton of people keep nominating it as a suspect. But after a while, there needs to be a line at which it can't be nominated anymore, because if people keep voting it UU/OU repeatedly, yet it keeps getting nominated anyway then maybe you can conclude that it's UU/OU?

 

[undisputed]

I disagree Bologo. Just because something keeps getting voted ou/uu doesn't mean it should be fixed there after a couple votes. Often times, there are many suspects being tested at once, and suspect z may not shine when x and y are present. Thus x and y may get banned, but then the community realizes z is now broken despite being previously voted ou/uu. This was pretty much the case with latias. Latios, shaymin-s, deoxys, garchomp, all outshown latias but we only realized latias was a problem once those 4 suspects were removed.

Sorry for any retarded misspellings/weird words. My iPod sometimes autochanges stuff so if there are any, just try to replace it with the closest word

 

[capefeather]

I don't think that it's so much of a problem anymore because we don't have to use a suspect to qualify to vote for it anymore. I'm not saying that we shouldn't use the suspect, but if a suspect keeps getting nominated then no one is obligated to use it every single round. Besides, with Raikou, it wasn't supposed to be re-nominated, but then the Life Orb set took UU by storm and it was nominated and banned for that.

 

[Bologo]

I disagree Bologo. Just because something keeps getting voted ou/uu doesn't mean it should be fixed there after a couple votes. Often times, there are many suspects being tested at once, and suspect z may not shine when x and y are present. Thus x and y may get banned, but then the community realizes z is now broken despite being previously voted ou/uu. This was pretty much the case with latias. Latios, shaymin-s, deoxys, garchomp, all outshown latias but we only realized latias was a problem once those 4 suspects were removed.

Sorry for any retarded misspellings/weird words. My iPod sometimes autochanges stuff so if there are any, just try to replace it with the closest word

Yes, I understand that this was the case with Latias. But did you also notice that every time Latias got tested, the amount of voters got lower and lower each time until there were barely any voters? I'm saying that this is because the anti-ban people got tired of having to qualify to vote on the thing time and time again, and eventually all that was left was people who wanted it to be banned, so therefore it got banned.

It's fine if something gets nominated if a really dangerous set comes up, but if, even with that dangerous set, people keep voting it OU, there has to be a point at which it can't be nominated anymore unless there are significant changes such as movepool, or the metagame changes completely.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

About our Suspect testing, there's something that's bugging me since Wednesday. Isn't it a *bit* to early for it? Our Standard OU metagame is nothing like any other we've played; it has Drizzle Politoed, Drought Ninetales, male-only Speed Boost Blaziken, mandatory Team Preview, both Shadow Tag Shandera/Gochiruzeru banned, Darkrai, Deoxys-D/N/A/S, Garchomp, Latis, Shaymin-S, Salamence, Mew, Manaphy, Wynaut and Wobbuffet all allowed at the same time, and also "a more skilled playerbase", according to some people. Shouldn't we have waited, as jrrrrrrr suggested, to have our first OU list, or at least wait for a month, before even thinking of "testing" something?