approved by the TL Rabia
So it's no secret to those of you in touch with the NU community over the past over the past year or two that there's been a general disgruntlement with the state of the SS NU metagame stretching as far back as the (very deserved) Goodra ban. As all the rest of the threats in the metagame were suspected, the resultant meta, although competitive and healthier in a sense without all the overpowered breakers, has turned much fatter, slower, and difficult to build in because of certain centralizing forces in the metagame and a lack of consistent breaking power. For the past 6 months or so of SS, players had been remarking that the tier has felt a bit like a gamble when loading into a tournament game because you just had to accept that there were going to be matchups where you were 6-0ed at preview because you had no way to reliably break a certain member of the opponents team or had nothing for a certain offensive threat, which is a sentiment that exists to this day about the tier.
Although there wasn't enough time to "fix" the tier by the end of the gen (shoutout the two suspect tests and a lack of tier shifts to steal Vileplume), there were 3 Pokemon that were singled out as unhealthy elements of the SS NU metagame by that point that seemed to be pushing the tier in the direction it has gone, namely Vileplume, Silvally-Ground, and Rotom-Mow. Since then, while the general playerbase still has interest in SS NU post gen, there's been a movement to start seriously considering action on the aforementioned Pokemon, starting with the SS Suspect slot that was created to get a feel for the tier without those 3 Pokemon in NUWC and culminating with this thread where a vote will be taken! So to prompt some discussion on the potential problems in the tier...
VileplumeIt's no secret to those who have played the tier that Vileplume is unbelievably potent in the current metagame. Easily the biggest benefactor of all of the bans and shifts over the last year of SS, Vileplume quickly rose to prominence as one of the tiers best physical walls, bulky wincons, and general nuisance all in one package with its access to a fabulous support movepool featuring moves such as Strength Sap, Leech Seed, Infestation, Sleep Powder, Corrosive Gas, and Growth and respectable bulk. Couple that with a 30% Poison chance from Sludge Bomb and you're left with a sometimes unpredictable and extremely difficult to check Pokemon that can overwhelm its answers with the right set or a lucky PSN. This could all be enough to make Vileplume nothing more than a top tier Pokemon, but because of these traits, especially the move Strength Sap, it can threaten to 1v1 majority of the current metagame and has historically sat on teams that have no proper way to deal with it, making building feel especially restrictive given the list of real checks is quite small.
With that being said, there's definitely dedicated counterplay to Vileplume in the tier as everyone has adapted to its presence. Most notably, Escavalier has seen a massive surge in usage to fill the mandatory Steel-type on many teams in part because of its ability to not lose to Vileplume with its SD Rest Megahorn set and Mantine has started to cement itself as the most prominent bulky Water-type in the metagame because of its ability to threaten Vileplume with a Hurricane. On the more offensive side of things, Salazzle, Exeggutor-Alola, Taunt Drapion, and Black Sludge Toxicroak are all capable of, for the most part, beating it down throughout a match, even if they can't switch in to every set that Vileplume can run. We've also seen strong players just play smarter around it by switching in Pokemon with a low physical attack stat to limit healing on Vileplume and help overwhelm it in the long run.
So where do we all stand on Vileplume? Is it worth keeping around in the tier, or is its versatility and builder presence a bit too toxic?
Rotom-MowRotom-Mow has undoubtedly been the best Pokemon the tier for as long as anyone can remember. The STAB combination of Grass/Electric is effectively unwallable by the tier when you consider the move Volt Switch is in its arsenal. Every viable team is forced to run a Ground-type and something that can comfortably take multiple Leaf Storms, leading to games that devolve into uncomfortable 50/50s where one wrong turn can either lose you a Pokemon or bring in a powerful breaker on a Volt Switch that can take care of whatever is on the field to check Rotom-Mow. These dynamics surrounding Rotom-Mow have been deemed unhealthy by a large portion of the community for a while now because of how awful these interactions are to play, so it only makes sense to talk once again about this Pokemon.
When discussing these two Pokemon, it's worth noting that the Rotom-Mow and Silvally-Ground are almost always seen as a package item so keep in mind that, unless there's good reason for it and support, any action on these Pokemon should probably be done together. A massive part of the reason that the two of them have any sense of balance in this tier is because the other exists. Rotom-Mow keeps Silvally-Ground in check by providing a splashable faster offensive threat to teams, while Silvally-Ground helps keep Rotom-Mow honest by heavily encouraging the use of Choice Scarf sets over the non choiced sets that would ease prediction but lose to Silvally-Ground. On the flip side though, the two make a terrifying VoltTurn core in the SS NU metagame because they almost perfectly counter each others answers, so many games can realistically turn into 50/50 vortexes as the two Pokemon VoltTurn all over the field until one player gets a turn wrong and loses.
I'm tagging a list of qualified voters pulled from basically every major tournament from the past year to give their input on the thread and consider their own position on how, if any, action should be handled for the tier. If you want a more in depth explanation of how the list was compiled, feel free to dm myself or a TL. Happy posting!
So it's no secret to those of you in touch with the NU community over the past over the past year or two that there's been a general disgruntlement with the state of the SS NU metagame stretching as far back as the (very deserved) Goodra ban. As all the rest of the threats in the metagame were suspected, the resultant meta, although competitive and healthier in a sense without all the overpowered breakers, has turned much fatter, slower, and difficult to build in because of certain centralizing forces in the metagame and a lack of consistent breaking power. For the past 6 months or so of SS, players had been remarking that the tier has felt a bit like a gamble when loading into a tournament game because you just had to accept that there were going to be matchups where you were 6-0ed at preview because you had no way to reliably break a certain member of the opponents team or had nothing for a certain offensive threat, which is a sentiment that exists to this day about the tier.
Although there wasn't enough time to "fix" the tier by the end of the gen (shoutout the two suspect tests and a lack of tier shifts to steal Vileplume), there were 3 Pokemon that were singled out as unhealthy elements of the SS NU metagame by that point that seemed to be pushing the tier in the direction it has gone, namely Vileplume, Silvally-Ground, and Rotom-Mow. Since then, while the general playerbase still has interest in SS NU post gen, there's been a movement to start seriously considering action on the aforementioned Pokemon, starting with the SS Suspect slot that was created to get a feel for the tier without those 3 Pokemon in NUWC and culminating with this thread where a vote will be taken! So to prompt some discussion on the potential problems in the tier...
Vileplume
With that being said, there's definitely dedicated counterplay to Vileplume in the tier as everyone has adapted to its presence. Most notably, Escavalier has seen a massive surge in usage to fill the mandatory Steel-type on many teams in part because of its ability to not lose to Vileplume with its SD Rest Megahorn set and Mantine has started to cement itself as the most prominent bulky Water-type in the metagame because of its ability to threaten Vileplume with a Hurricane. On the more offensive side of things, Salazzle, Exeggutor-Alola, Taunt Drapion, and Black Sludge Toxicroak are all capable of, for the most part, beating it down throughout a match, even if they can't switch in to every set that Vileplume can run. We've also seen strong players just play smarter around it by switching in Pokemon with a low physical attack stat to limit healing on Vileplume and help overwhelm it in the long run.
So where do we all stand on Vileplume? Is it worth keeping around in the tier, or is its versatility and builder presence a bit too toxic?
Rotom-Mow
Silvally-Ground
Silvally-Ground is one of those happy accidents of Smogon history. Entirely unused for a large portion of the generation, Silvally-Ground began to gain traction when players started to look for answers to Rotom-Mow, and a Ground-type that could block Volt Switch, outspeed non choiced Rotom-Mow, and take back momentum with U-Turn seemed like a godsend. Well, until people realized how problematic and strong it was. Because you have to respect its ability to KO you with a Gen 8 buffed 120 BP Multi Attack or Swords Dance up thanks to its respectable bulk, it often feels like you're forced to pivot into something that can threaten out Silvally-Ground, leading to similar U-Turn interactions and 50/50s as with Rotom-Mow, if a bit more nuanced. It's also worth noting that the list of Pokemon that can comfortably check Silvally-Ground is extremely limited. Many of the bulky Ground- and Water- types lose after some chip or can be set up on, the Flying-types get hit by Rock Slide, and the Grass-types almost all get smoked by U-Turn, especially after a Swords Dance. Flame Charge is a powerful addition to Silvally-Ground's movepool, too, letting it act as an extremely scary sweeper when it gets going, often turning games around on its head. With all that said, it's not hard to see why Silvally-Ground has been thrown into the conversation as banworthy as well.When discussing these two Pokemon, it's worth noting that the Rotom-Mow and Silvally-Ground are almost always seen as a package item so keep in mind that, unless there's good reason for it and support, any action on these Pokemon should probably be done together. A massive part of the reason that the two of them have any sense of balance in this tier is because the other exists. Rotom-Mow keeps Silvally-Ground in check by providing a splashable faster offensive threat to teams, while Silvally-Ground helps keep Rotom-Mow honest by heavily encouraging the use of Choice Scarf sets over the non choiced sets that would ease prediction but lose to Silvally-Ground. On the flip side though, the two make a terrifying VoltTurn core in the SS NU metagame because they almost perfectly counter each others answers, so many games can realistically turn into 50/50 vortexes as the two Pokemon VoltTurn all over the field until one player gets a turn wrong and loses.
I'm tagging a list of qualified voters pulled from basically every major tournament from the past year to give their input on the thread and consider their own position on how, if any, action should be handled for the tier. If you want a more in depth explanation of how the list was compiled, feel free to dm myself or a TL. Happy posting!
Gilbert arenas
zS
OnArceus
Kushalos
aim
etern
Ren-chon
GXE
Nat
Xiri
Meri Berry
Danny
BIHI
Togkey
eifo
OranBerryBlissey10
Luck O' the Irish
Ninja
damien the genius
Huargensy
Luthier
DugZa
Garay oak
poh
yovan33321
Mr.Bossaru
Star
roxie
Leni
Master Chief
gum
Floss
Booty
Sirwings
Davon
Elias PSY
Mac3
ACR1
turtledoggo1
pdt
mncmt
Pokeslice
GW
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d
fade
xavgb
dunoks
tko
Accel
skierdude101
Lilo
Chaitanya
dragonitenb
dcae
zS
OnArceus
Kushalos
aim
etern
Ren-chon
GXE
Nat
Xiri
Meri Berry
Danny
BIHI
Togkey
eifo
OranBerryBlissey10
Luck O' the Irish
Ninja
damien the genius
Huargensy
Luthier
DugZa
Garay oak
poh
yovan33321
Mr.Bossaru
Star
roxie
Leni
Master Chief
gum
Floss
Booty
Sirwings
Davon
Elias PSY
Mac3
ACR1
turtledoggo1
pdt
mncmt
Pokeslice
GW
S1nn0hC0nfirm3d
fade
xavgb
dunoks
tko
Accel
skierdude101
Lilo
Chaitanya
dragonitenb
dcae
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