The Emperor Wishes to Kill [OU Empoleon Team]

A Jirachi & Empoleon Team

The Emperor Wishes to Kill
(Yeah, I know my title sucks.)

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Hi everyone, this is my current WiFi team and my most successful team thus far. It is primarily offensive and is based around a SubCM Jirachi and AgiliSubPetaya Empoleon sweep (get it? Jirachi grants wishes and Empoleon is an Emperor Penguin. Hence the title, lololol).

This team is focuses on heavy Special offense through Gengar and Salamence to soften my opponent's team and weaken Jirachi and Empoleon's counters. The concept is similar to
A Greek RMT by Stathakis where he used Manaphy and Empoleon together to overwhelm their counters, though I don't use his suicide offense style. I paired Jirachi and Empoleon together for the same reasons, which is overloading their counters (Blissey in particular). In-direct damage through Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are used to limit the number of times their counters can switch in or the amount of time they can stay in. Each Pokemon on this team has been chosen so that they support Empoleon while still being capable of standing on their own. Each Pokemon also supports one another.

Overall, this team has been quite successful since the metagame is heavily biased to the physical side. However, like all teams, it does have its flaws and so I am turning to the Smogon community for assistance. One of the biggest problems is the lack of a good revenge killer, though most Pokemon don't get the opportunity to set up on my team. I'm open to all suggestions, including replacement Pokemon (except Jirachi and Empoleon). Anyways, on to the team:

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Roserade @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]
---

Roserade is one of the most reliable leads I have ever used. It surprises me that it is still UU despite how well it does against the common OU leads. With the many Metagross, Swampert, and Heatran leads, Roserade easily forces switches and sets up a double layer of Toxic Spikes to aid Jirachi and Empoleon.

Sleep Powder is an obvious choice due to how easily it forces switches. This gives me a free turn to set up a layer of Toxic Spikes. Despite the fact that the majority of the top OU Pokemon are immune to it, a double layer of Toxic Spikes helps weaken Empoleon's counters, such as Blissey, Vaporeon, and Celebi. STAB Leaf Storm coming off the highest Special Attack of all Grass Pokemon will severely dent anything that doesn't resist it. Leaf Storm also does a great job of disposing of bulky Waters that could wall Empoleon. Hidden Power [Ground] may seem odd but it has great coverage against common leads such as Heatran and Metagross. It OHKOs any non-Shuca Berry Heatran that think they can wall Roserade, and 2-3HKOs the standard lead Metagross.

Roserade vs Top 10 Leads (As of May 2009):

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Metagross - Most Metagross leads I've encountered are surprisingly predictable when faced with Swampert. They usually Stealth Rock then use Explosion, allowing me to use Protect. If they stay in for whatever reason, they're going to get 2HKO'd by Earthquake.

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Azelf - Both of Azelf's main attacks, Psychic and Fire Blast, OKHO Roserade so Focus Sash is extremely helpful here. I usually use Sleep Powder on the first turn and then set up Toxic Spikes. I can usually get two layers up against non-Taunt Azelf if Sleep Powder doesn't miss.

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Swampert - Most Swampert switch out immediately so I usually use Sleep Powder on the switch and then set up Toxic Spikes. If they stay in, they're just going to get OHKO'd by Leaf Storm.

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Jirachi - Scarf Jirachi is annoying due to the high flinchhax rate of Iron Head. I usually switch to Swampert and set up Stealth Rock instead of staying in.

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Aerodactyl - I usually just switch to Swampert because Aerodactyl's speedy Taunt disables Sleep Powder and Toxic Spikes. Swampert can easily 2HKO Aerodactyl with Ice Beam.

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Infernape - I usually switch to Swampert because Fake Out breaks the Focus Sash.

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Hippowdon - They usually switch out so I just use Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes.

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Ninjask - Switch to Swampert to Roar away any possible stat boosts it tries to Baton Pass.

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Bronzong - I can't do much to it offensively so I just use Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes. If it stays in, I can switch to Swampert and set up Stealth Rock.

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Tyranitar - Sand Stream is dangerous since it breaks Focus Sash. Leaf Storm doesn't OHKO either so I'm usually forced to switch to Swampert.

Despite holding a Focus Sash, Roserade does not function as a suicide lead in any way. I try to keep it alive for as long as possible because she is a valuable team player for Empoleon due to her Fighting and Electric resistances. She also scares away bulky Waters that wall Empoleon and acts as a status absorber thanks to Natural Cure.

The EVs are straightforward. Speed is maximized to outspeed neutral base 90 speed Pokemon and slower base 100 speed Pokemon.

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Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
---
Swampert is by far my favourite Stealth Rocker. Its overall bulk and awesome typing make it the perfect candidate for setting up Stealth Rock, something which it rarely fails to do. Swampert also has great synergy with Roserade since it is a great switch in to most of the leads that Roserade can't handle.

Stealth Rock is very important for this team because it limits the number of times that Empoleon's counters can switch in and try to interrupt its sweep. It also provides many of the crucial 2HKOs and OHKOs for this team that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Earthquake and Ice Beam are my two attacking skills which provide a type combination that is only resisted by Bronzong in OU. It also allows Swampert to be a decent Tyranitar check, and Salamence in some cases. Roar is in the last slot for p-hazing annoying stat-uppers.

The EVs are a slight variation of the ones suggested in the analysis. I just maxed out HP and Def and opted to add the last 4 EVs into Speed incase I need to avoid a speed tie with other MixPerts.

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
---
With Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes support, I needed a good wall breaker because stall teams have no problems dealing with Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Dragonite first came to mind due to its ability to OHKO Blissey. However, after testing it I found that it was too slow and was easily killed. Thus, I went with Salamence who is capable of sweeping in addition to wall breaking. Since the majority of this team is special-based offense, I needed a good way to deal with Blissey and other special walls.

I generally send Salamence out early game to weaken my opponent's team and take out any walls that may prevent my late game sweepers from setting up. Thus, Empoleon and Jirachi can easily sweep without problems or interruptions. Salamence is also a great Scizor magnet which means Empoleon or Jirachi are free to come in and set up on Scizor.

The moveset is standard. I originally chose the "Classic MixMence" set. However, I found that it was lacking in power without Earthquake and Outrage.

I modified the EVs from the analysis to my liking. 16 Atk EVs guarantee that I always 2HKO 252/252 Bold Blissey with Outrage after Stealth Rock and Leftovers. Max Speed EVs and Hasty nature let me outspeed those base 95's EV'd for outspeeding neutral Salamences. It also lets me outspeed the majority of base 100's that don't max speed. The rest of the EVs are dumped into SAtk.

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Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
---
With everyone and their mom using Scizor on their teams, Gengar has taken an undeserving fall in usage. As a result, many teams dismiss it as a threat and fail to realize just how deadly it is.

Gengar is probably the most important Pokemon on this team because it has so many purposes on this team. Its first role is to act as a Rapid Spin blocker in order to ensure Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes remain intact. While Gengar may seem like an odd choice to be a Rapid Spin blocker, its great stats and movepool allows it to hurt most of the common Spinners, such as Starmie and Tentacruel. Another role is to attract Pursuit users and Scizor so that Jirachi and Empoleon can switch in to set up. It can also switch into those Mach Punches and Vacuum Waves that try to end Empoleon's sweep. Lastly, Gengar is my only SD Lucario and DD Gyarados check which makes it a crucial team member for that alone.

Shadow Ball is the obvious choice of STAB. When paired with Focus Blast everything in OU is hit for neutral damage at least. Thunderbolt is there to deal with bulky Waters that Empoleon hates, particularly Gyarados (before Dragon Dance obviously). Substitute eases prediction with Gengar and makes it easier for it to take on Scizor and Blissey. Most Scizor will Bullet Punch to get rid of Substitute, allowing me to switch into Jirachi/Empoleon and set up. Blissey will struggle to take down Gengar behind a Substitute, especially with a double layer of Toxic Spikes down.

The EVs are standard. Timid nature is chosen to outspeed as much as possible.

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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
---
Much like Gengar, SubCM Jirachi's usage has dropped since the release of Platinum due to the awesome FlinchHax of Iron Head. Thus, most teams are unprepared for the SubCM set.

Jirachi was the last Pokemon I added onto my team. Since Empoleon is best saved for late game, I needed something that could switch into most of Salamence and Gengar's counters instead of sending Empoleon out too early. I felt that Jirachi was the best choice overall due to its typing and great stats. Jirachi usually comes out mid game after Gengar and Salamence has softened my opponent's team. Thanks to the great type synergy with Salamence (and Gengar for Scizor), Jirachi has many opportunities to set up and sweep.

Substitute is the beauty of this set. With Jirachi's ability to create 101 HP Substitutes, Blissey, the best counter to this set, cannot break Jirachi's Substitutes with Seismic Toss making it easy to set up with Calm Mind. This also provides Jirachi with protection from status effects. Flash Cannon and Thunderbolt are the attacking moves of choice because they provide the best coverage out of the possible options. Flash Cannon and Serene Grace also enables Jirachi to beat Blissey 1 on 1. Swampert walls this set entirely, which is another reason I have Roserade on this team.

Jirachi's main role is to weaken Empoleon's counters (primarily Blissey). However, there have been many occasions where I never even have to send out Empoleon because Jirachi has already sweeped my opponent's team.

The EVs are fairly standard. 252 HP is crucial to create those 101 HP Substitutes. 180 Speed lets it outspeed all neutral base 100s and positive base 90s. It also lets me outspeed Jolly Gliscor what typically runs at 308 speed. The rest are dumped into special attack.

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Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
Evs: 12 HP / 12 Def / 252 SAtk / 232 Spd
Nature: Modest (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Agility
- Surf
- Ice Beam
---
Here is the star of the show, Empoleon. I don't think I need to say much about how deadly this set can be with the right support. While many criticize Empoleon for only having one shot to sweep or requiring a lot of support, the great thing about this team is that each member supports Empoleon in some way or can stand alone as their own sweeper.

Empoleon is my late game sweeper and is basically used to clean up whatever is left on my opponent's team. If all goes well, Jirachi has already weakend a good chunk of my opponent's Pokemon, making them easy pickings for Empoleon. I'm sure you all know how this set works: bring in Empoleon late game on something it resists and Substitute. Then use Agility. Once Torrent and Petaya Berry activate, the opponent is pretty much done for, especially with the amount of support and power that Empoleon's teammates provide.


Threat List

*Note: Red name indicates a serious threat.

Defensive Threats

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Blissey - Roserade's Toxic Spikes prevents Blissey from staying in too long. Jirachi and Gengar can both beat Blissey one on one. Salamence 2HKOs with Outrage after Stealth Rock but it must watch out for Ice Beam.

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Bronzong - Salamence is the main counter. Unfortunately there isn't much that can easily dispose of Bronzong but it doesn't really wall anything on this team either.

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Celebi - Empoleon can take it down with Ice Beam. Jirachi can set up on it and threaten SDef drops with Flash Cannon. Gengar can take it out with Shadow Ball.

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Cresselia - Jirachi and Gengar (if she doesn't have Psychic). She is one of the more annoying walls to deal with due to her immunity to Toxic Spikes.

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Donphan - Non-issue for this team due to its pitiful SDef. Roserade or Empoleon should be able to dispose of it with ease.

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Dusknoir - Gengar can take it down if it doesn't have Shadow Sneak. Jirachi can set up on most variants.

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Forretress - Salamence OHKOs with Fire Blast.

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Gliscor - Defensively, it's not a huge issue for this team. Roserade's Leaf Storm does quite a bit against Gliscor. Swampert can usually beat Gliscor with Avalanche.

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Gyarados - RestTalk Gyara is still slower than Gengar after a Dragon Dance. Jirachi can OHKO the standard BulkyGyara if it doesn't have Earthquake.

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Hippowdon - Roserade takes down lead Hippowdon easily. Gengar can continuously blast Hippowdon with Shadow Ball if it doesn't have a secondary attacking move. Empoleon's unboosted Surf has a good chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

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Jirachi - Swampert can handle most variants.

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Rotom-A - Swampert is a decent check to all Rotom appliances except Rotom-C.

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Skarmory - Non-issue most of the time due to the heavy Special offense on this team.

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Swampert - Roserade.

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Tentacruel - Jirachi can usually set up on it.

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Tyranitar - Careful Tyranitar is one of the deadliest Special walls in the game. Even Roserade's Leaf Storm cannot OHKO it. Swampert is the best counter to it. If Tyranitar is Choice Banded, Jirachi or Empoleon can set up on it if it doesn't use Earthquake.

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Vaporeon - Roserade can take it out easily. Jirachi can set up on it and Gengar 2HKOs with Thunderbolt.

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Zapdos - Swampert counters Zapdos without Hidden Power Grass. Salamence's Draco Meteor OHKOs most variants after Stealth Rock.


Offensive Threats

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Azelf - Thankfully most people waste Azelf as a lead, which Swampert can usually handle. Nasty Plot variants are a huge threat to this team due to the lack of priority attacks.

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Breloom - Without Seed Bomb, Gengar can wall it with ease. Salamence is also a good counter due to its resistances to both of Breloom's STABs.

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Electivire - Swampert takes most non-HP Grass variants out easily.

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Gengar - Life Orb variants are tough to handle. I'm usually dependent on Gengar to win the speed tie. Salamence can survive a Timid Life Orb Shadow Ball at full health and OHKO with Draco Meteor. Scarf variants are usually not too difficult to handle depending on what they get locked into.

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Gyarados - It doesn't have many opportunities to set up. Swampert is good at tanking most hits and can p-haze with Roar. Gengar and Jirachi can kill with Thunderbolt if it doesn't have a Dragon Dance boost.

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Heatran - Swampert is the best counter to Heatran as long as they don't have HP Grass. Salamence can handle non-Scarf Heatran by OHKOing with Earthquake.

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Infernape
- One of the best Empoleon counters. Gengar is the only thing that outspeeds it but it can't OHKO.

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Jolteon - Swampert can take it out but it must watch out for Hidden Power Grass. SpecsJolt isn't much of a problem depending on what it gets locked into.

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Kingdra - Empoleon walls the standard Waterfall/Outrage set. Salamence OHKOs with Draco Meteor, Swampert p-hazes annoying SubDancers.

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Latias
- Another troublesome Pokemon for me to deal with. It outspeeds everything on my team and if it gets the chance to set up, it could possibly 6-0 me. Empoleon resists the standard Surf/Dragon Pulse set but can't take too many CM boosted hits.

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Lucario - SD Lucario doesn't have many chances to set up. However, Gengar is my only check.

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Machamp - Annoying. Salamence is the best way to take it out. Gengar can switch in on predicted DynamicPunch but it cannot take a hit from Payback.

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Magnezone - Swampert resists both its STABs and can OHKO with Earthquake.

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Mamoswine - Huge problem. It scores super effective hits with its STAB moves on 4/6 of my Pokemon. If it is Choice Banded, revenge killing it is usually not a problem.

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Metagross - Swampert is the best check to Metagross.

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Salamence - With no priority attacks, DD Mence can easily sweep this team. DDMence thankfully doesn't have many opportunities to set up against my team. Swampert is my best answer to it. If it gets locked into Outrage, Jirachi can usually take it out.

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Scizor - Jirachi and Empoleon are just begging to set up on Scizor.

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Starmie - Difficult to deal with Life Orb variants.

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Suicune - Roserade takes it out with Leaf Storm. Jirachi can outstall with Thunderbolt.

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Togekiss - Jirachi can set up on it.

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Tyranitar - Swampert is the best counter. Salamence has a decent OHKO chance with Brick Break as well. Roserade can revenge kill with Leaf Storm if Tyranitar has taken prior damage.
 
First off I think this is an incredibly solid team, and will probably get 5 starred very soon. It is also presented very well.

The biggest threat I can see for you is MixMence. Despite you mentioning how your Salamence spread out speeds opposing Salamence, max speed is now a common standard on MixMence, meaning you will generally lose. For that reason I would considering just maxing out speed and using something like 212 SpA, with the remaining thrown into attack.

Gengar seems cool but it looks like you're going to need to predict the Scizor switch in since Bullet Punch can easily OHKO you (which I'm sure isn't very hard to predict since Scizor doesn't actually fear Gengar). You could opt for Substitute somewhere in there for a better chance at beating Scizor, however.

Last but not least Grass Knot is the better option on Empoleon. Only Roserade can threaten bulky waters such as Suicune, however with your suicide set and the side effect of losing -2 SpA, it can't continuously cause a threat to waters. Surf still 2hko's all dragons and Celebi after the pataya boost, stealth rock, and torrent. I would however try using the life orb set instead of the subpetaya, which would allow you to use 3 attacks for more coverage and still activate torrent over time.
 
First off I think this is an incredibly solid team, and will probably get 5 starred very soon. It is also presented very well.

Thank you :D

The biggest threat I can see for you is MixMence. Despite you mentioning how your Salamence spread out speeds opposing Salamence, max speed is now a common standard on MixMence, meaning you will generally lose. For that reason I would considering just maxing out speed and using something like 212 SpA, with the remaining thrown into attack.

Ah I wasn't aware that max Speed was the new trend. I'll probably go ahead and max out speed then just to be safe. Thanks for pointing that out.

Gengar seems cool but it looks like you're going to need to predict the Scizor switch in since Bullet Punch can easily OHKO you (which I'm sure isn't very hard to predict since Scizor doesn't actually fear Gengar). You could opt for Substitute somewhere in there for a better chance at beating Scizor, however.

I actually want Scizor to Bullet Punch Gengar because if it is Choice Banded, Jirachi or Empoleon can switch in and set up thanks to their 2x and 4x resistance to steel respectively. If Scizor uses anything else then they're just going to get OHKO'd since they cannot outspeed Gengar.

Substitute is something I'm willing to reconsider though. Ironically, I had Substitute in the last slot over HP Fire originally. I could try it over Thunderbolt and see how that works out.

Last but not least Grass Knot is the better option on Empoleon. Only Roserade can threaten bulky waters such as Suicune, however with your suicide set and the side effect of losing -2 SpA, it can't continuously cause a threat to waters. Surf still 2hko's all dragons and Celebi after the pataya boost, stealth rock, and torrent. I would however try using the life orb set instead of the subpetaya, which would allow you to use 3 attacks for more coverage and still activate torrent over time.

Hmm good point. My only fear with Grass Knot is that Latias can wall Empoleon all day long and I really don't have anything on my team that can fight back if she sets up Calm Mind on Empoleon. Plus, with Toxic Spikes support, most bulky waters won't be able to stay in for long anyways.

I don't really like the Life Orb set though. I can't help but feel like Starmie does the same thing better, and it doesn't need Agility to outspeed things. SubPetaya is what gave Empoleon its deadly reputation anyways :P


Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll definitely try them all out. Keep 'em coming folks!
 
Try 44HP / 212 Spe on Empoleon. There isn't much you won't be outrunning, and the extra HP helps. You also don't need the 29HP IV on Salamence or Gengar, any number that you can't divide by ten won't kill you. One problem with your Swampert is it has enough SpA to OHKO Salamence, but DDMence can OHKO back, and Mixmence is going to leave a large dent. Putting all those EVs in SpA is a waste, you have Stealth Rock, so you don't need them. Try Relaxed or Impish, 252HP / 220Def / filler. If you choose attack switch to Ice Punch. (EVs allow you to survive a DDLO Outrage)
 
Try 44HP / 212 Spe on Empoleon. There isn't much you won't be outrunning, and the extra HP helps.

I suppose I could do that. It still outspeeds +Speed Choice Scarf Heatran.

You also don't need the 29HP IV on Salamence or Gengar, any number that you can't divide by ten won't kill you.

Oh, duh. I obviously wasn't thinking there xD

One problem with your Swampert is it has enough SpA to OHKO Salamence, but DDMence can OHKO back, and Mixmence is going to leave a large dent. Putting all those EVs in SpA is a waste, you have Stealth Rock, so you don't need them. Try Relaxed or Impish, 252HP / 220Def / filler. If you choose attack switch to Ice Punch. (EVs allow you to survive a DDLO Outrage)

I guess I could go for a pure physical Swampert. I have enough special attackers on this team anyways. Avalanche or Ice Punch?
 
Yeah, as mentioned before, you may be better off maxing speed on MixMence. If you choose to do this, use 252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def. Brick Break 2HKOs Bliss with SR down everytime anyway (and I mean Bold 252/252), so there is no point. Max SpAtk gives you 3 points more fire power to go off of on Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. 4 Def will help against Lucario and other fighters where you may have to use Mence as a makeshift switch in.

I was going to suggest MysticGar over your current one because you can't really afford to lose your best (and pretty much only) Luke check from something like a Scizor Bullet Punch. This however means that DD Gyarados can prove to be a huuuge problem. However, SubGar can still fufill a similar role to what you're trying to do, as well as still checking SDLuke and getting to keep Thunderbolt so Gyara won't walk all over you.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Like you mentioned, Gengar is a Scizor magnet. Most Scizor will Bullet Punch Gengar to get rid of the sub. This will allow you an almost free switch in to Jirachi, Empoleon, or even Swampert if you still need to get Stealth Rock down. Substitute also helps incase you mispredict switch ins, as Substitute eases prediction, you Sub when you expect a switch and your fine. The biggest reason that i feel Sub would be a better option is that Blissey is really going to struggle against it with 2 layers down. It will constantly have to Softboiled or Wish/Protect, which means it will not be able to break Gengars sub and you'll still be behind a sub and completely able to Focus Blast it for about 30% as it takes upwards of 16% from Toxic Spikes after a few turns. Having Blissey weakened is the biggest factor in an Empoleon team, especially against stall. If you can manage to take out Blissey and the opposition gives you a free chance to set up Empoleon, the odds are stacked in your favor.

I like this team, but I wouldn't really call it the type of suicide offense that Stathakis is known to play, more just overloading your opposition's counter. Regardless its a good team and the presentation is flawless. 5*
 
Ice Punch does more damage to switching things, but if you like 120BP go with that.

I decided to go with Avalanche since Swampert isn't exactly going to be outspeeding much.

Yeah, as mentioned before, you may be better off maxing speed on MixMence. If you choose to do this, use 252 Speed / 252 SpAtk / 4 Def. Brick Break 2HKOs Bliss with SR down everytime anyway (and I mean Bold 252/252), so there is no point. Max SpAtk gives you 3 points more fire power to go off of on Draco Meteor and Fire Blast. 4 Def will help against Lucario and other fighters where you may have to use Mence as a makeshift switch in.

I'll change the EV spread to 24 Atk / 232 SAtk / 252 Speed. 24 Atk EVs let me 100% 2hko 252/252 Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock and Leftovers.

I was going to suggest MysticGar over your current one because you can't really afford to lose your best (and pretty much only) Luke check from something like a Scizor Bullet Punch. This however means that DD Gyarados can prove to be a huuuge problem. However, SubGar can still fufill a similar role to what you're trying to do, as well as still checking SDLuke and getting to keep Thunderbolt so Gyara won't walk all over you.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Like you mentioned, Gengar is a Scizor magnet. Most Scizor will Bullet Punch Gengar to get rid of the sub. This will allow you an almost free switch in to Jirachi, Empoleon, or even Swampert if you still need to get Stealth Rock down. Substitute also helps incase you mispredict switch ins, as Substitute eases prediction, you Sub when you expect a switch and your fine. The biggest reason that i feel Sub would be a better option is that Blissey is really going to struggle against it with 2 layers down. It will constantly have to Softboiled or Wish/Protect, which means it will not be able to break Gengars sub and you'll still be behind a sub and completely able to Focus Blast it for about 30% as it takes upwards of 16% from Toxic Spikes after a few turns. Having Blissey weakened is the biggest factor in an Empoleon team, especially against stall. If you can manage to take out Blissey and the opposition gives you a free chance to set up Empoleon, the odds are stacked in your favor.

Alright I'll go with this set. Losing HP Fire also lets me run max speed (HP Fire needs 30 Speed IVs) so I don't lose the speed tie, which was really killing me against opposing Gengar.

I like this team, but I wouldn't really call it the type of suicide offense that Stathakis is known to play, more just overloading your opposition's counter. Regardless its a good team and the presentation is flawless. 5*

Thanks! :D
 
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