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The Everything NHL Thread
- Thread starter Jackal
- Start date
Freaking loving the drama in the Detroit/Chicago series, I loved all that whining about a mostly clean Kronwall hit Quenville did, and now he has turned around and started bitching about the officiating in this game, as though it is their fault that his team absolutely and completely melted down in the second half or so of the game... amazing. I feel like I'm listening to Randy Carlyle, does anyone have Savard's number?
Speaking of that whining, I enjoyed Campbell, who sure enjoyed running people to the extent he is allowed to within the rules while he was in Buffalo, calling Kronwall's hit "gutless" since it was basically exactly the same shit he used to do... but karma has rolled around already - I'd worry less about insulting other players and more about not being a -3, Brian.
I'd say it is a little of both. A lot of Detroit's upper management is former scouts, and they started scouting Europe aggressively earlier than basically every other franchise and they've worked to keep up their advantage - there's a handful of real good scouts they've had for a long time, whose names are on the tip of my tongue, who contribute pretty immeasurably. I remember Holland saying something along the lines that everyone wants to draft that big, bulky, physical north american skater, and so he's going to go 1 or 2 or 3, but there's a lot of good European talent that don't look as much of a "sure thing", and that they were set up to help find that type of player later in the rounds. It's definitely harder to do now, but Zetterberg was getting scouted as we won the cup in 02 and Datsyuk was a rookie that year, and Fillipula, Leino, Ericsson, and several others came later than that, so it's definitely still occurring.
The development factor is underrated I think, though. Even ignoring draft picks we have a handful of relatively high draft picks we got for nothing because other teams gave up them - Samuelsson and Cleary, for instance, had been bounced around the NHL and considered busts, and ended up working into our system and becoming really productive players we didn't have to "pay" anything to get. Draper and Maltby were pretty similar a decade before them in that regard. But as far as developing prospects, I think part of why we do it well is that we are so deep - Ericsson, Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader all "made the team" out of camp, but there was just no room for them so they were put in the minors, and playing there they get first line minutes to help them develop further. On almost any other team they'd be on the pro roster playing fewer minutes against harder competition, maybe shaking their confidence a little or letting them progress a little slower in the reduced ice time... it's amazing how good of a position Detroit gets put in because they're always on top.
Speaking of that whining, I enjoyed Campbell, who sure enjoyed running people to the extent he is allowed to within the rules while he was in Buffalo, calling Kronwall's hit "gutless" since it was basically exactly the same shit he used to do... but karma has rolled around already - I'd worry less about insulting other players and more about not being a -3, Brian.
Mormoopid said:
I'd say it is a little of both. A lot of Detroit's upper management is former scouts, and they started scouting Europe aggressively earlier than basically every other franchise and they've worked to keep up their advantage - there's a handful of real good scouts they've had for a long time, whose names are on the tip of my tongue, who contribute pretty immeasurably. I remember Holland saying something along the lines that everyone wants to draft that big, bulky, physical north american skater, and so he's going to go 1 or 2 or 3, but there's a lot of good European talent that don't look as much of a "sure thing", and that they were set up to help find that type of player later in the rounds. It's definitely harder to do now, but Zetterberg was getting scouted as we won the cup in 02 and Datsyuk was a rookie that year, and Fillipula, Leino, Ericsson, and several others came later than that, so it's definitely still occurring.
The development factor is underrated I think, though. Even ignoring draft picks we have a handful of relatively high draft picks we got for nothing because other teams gave up them - Samuelsson and Cleary, for instance, had been bounced around the NHL and considered busts, and ended up working into our system and becoming really productive players we didn't have to "pay" anything to get. Draper and Maltby were pretty similar a decade before them in that regard. But as far as developing prospects, I think part of why we do it well is that we are so deep - Ericsson, Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader all "made the team" out of camp, but there was just no room for them so they were put in the minors, and playing there they get first line minutes to help them develop further. On almost any other team they'd be on the pro roster playing fewer minutes against harder competition, maybe shaking their confidence a little or letting them progress a little slower in the reduced ice time... it's amazing how good of a position Detroit gets put in because they're always on top.
I thought Leino was put in the minors because he needed to learn more about the NA hockey.
It's funny how Hossa is on the other side this time. If the Penguins win, it's got to suck for him.
Maybe this will shape up like the Islanders vs. the Oilers back in '84. The previous year they met but the up-and-coming Oilers got beat 4-0. The next year the Oilers met with the Islanders again, and won 4-1. From '84 to '90 they won 5 out of 7 cups, after a reign of Islander victories (much like the reign of the Wings over the league, although the Wings didn't win cups every year they pretty much dominated and have been the top team year after year).
Anyway, go Penguins! I don't want a repeat, please!
Anyway, go Penguins! I don't want a repeat, please!
I went 2/2 on last rounds predictions which puts me at 11/14 overall so far. Plis i even got the two teams that would play for the cup right before round 1.
I don't see how the switch of Hossa from Pittsburgh to Detroit doesn't make the Wings better and the Pens worse comparing them to last year. Detroit has some nagging injuries and Malkin and the Pens dominated last round but I have to pick Detroit. I don't think the injuries are that serious, or atleast I hope they aren't. Also Detroit will be a very scary team if Datsyuk starts scoring like you would expect from him. Since Hossa switched teams to win a cup and I've always liked him, except for last years playoffs, I would feel really bad for him if they lose. Combine that with my Detroit-fandom and I have to pick the Wings. Detroit in 6... again. Should be an exciting final.
I don't see how the switch of Hossa from Pittsburgh to Detroit doesn't make the Wings better and the Pens worse comparing them to last year. Detroit has some nagging injuries and Malkin and the Pens dominated last round but I have to pick Detroit. I don't think the injuries are that serious, or atleast I hope they aren't. Also Detroit will be a very scary team if Datsyuk starts scoring like you would expect from him. Since Hossa switched teams to win a cup and I've always liked him, except for last years playoffs, I would feel really bad for him if they lose. Combine that with my Detroit-fandom and I have to pick the Wings. Detroit in 6... again. Should be an exciting final.
ill say this a lose-lose for me. im sick of detroit winning and i really think the pittsburgh crosbys...er i mean malkins....wait, fuck its the penguins! yeah they dont deserve to win yet, im predicting and hoping the wings eat them alive. by my estimation pittsburgh shouldnt have a team and a few good drafts and one or two reasonable trades isnt worthy, whereas the wings are again.
fuck i hate this final, again.
fuck i hate this final, again.
but regardless of how you feel about the way they developed, you have to be excited for the high-level, fast-paced hockey this series is going to bring
zetterberg + datsyuk + hossa + franzen + lidstrom v. crosby + malkin + stall + gonchar is whoooooaaaa sweet
i'm excited ^_^
zetterberg + datsyuk + hossa + franzen + lidstrom v. crosby + malkin + stall + gonchar is whoooooaaaa sweet
i'm excited ^_^
Should be an exciting series, hope the Penguins will win it.
fuck detroit.
fuck detroit.
From what I can gather Datsyuk and Lidstrom are really not that hurt (I'm almost more concerned about them rushing Ericsson back from having his appendix removed), but I still think this'll be a lot closer than last year, where I thought it wasn't even as close as 4-2 indicated - my main complain of Sidney Crosby over the past few years is that he whines a lot, to the point where I feel like he expects things handed to him. This year he's mostly kept his mouth shut and he is absolutely playing like someone who is going to fucking take it if it isn't given to him, and while he hasn't been too pretty in the playoffs, he's leading in goals and point for a reason. I think his development alone will make this series a lot more interesting, and Malkin has improved, too. The Pens as a whole really seem to want it more than anyone else in the east did (as much as I hate to admit it, look at that Washington series for evidence - I've never seen such a massive shot blocking discrepancy)... this'll be a good series.
I feel pretty confident this one'll go seven but I'm going to somewhat hopefully pick to Detroit. I'm really hoping Babcock puts Stuart/Kronwall against Malkin to the extent he can and Lidstrom + Raf or Ericsson against Crosby just because Malkin has been known to take some stupid retaliatory penalties when you get in his face and getting him off his game will be crucial. I'm not sure I've seen anyone other than Ovechkin really get Crosby off his game and that is a special case, but Lidstrom shut down Crosby pretty well last year, so hopefully he can do so this year, too.
The Wings, for their part, have a pretty good offense, too - no one but Dallas Drake is out of the lineup from last season, although Draper isn't too likely to play either, and they added Hossa(who hasn't done anything anyway) and Ericsson(even though he was in the system last year). I think the story will probably be the development of players either way, though, since while Pittsburgh's stars have developed, a lot of Detroit's young guns, like Fillapula, Ericsson, Helm, and Lebda have really improved, and Cleary has looked better than I can remember him being, too.
Goaltending is where I'm really curious, though. Fleury has made some big saves, but his playoff stats have not been good and that high powered Pens offense has carried him on some level - I can't remember the last time I've seen a SCF goalie who was barely over .900. That'll almost certainly be higher against Detroit since they fire so many on net, but he's really going to have to step it up for the Pens.
I feel pretty confident this one'll go seven but I'm going to somewhat hopefully pick to Detroit. I'm really hoping Babcock puts Stuart/Kronwall against Malkin to the extent he can and Lidstrom + Raf or Ericsson against Crosby just because Malkin has been known to take some stupid retaliatory penalties when you get in his face and getting him off his game will be crucial. I'm not sure I've seen anyone other than Ovechkin really get Crosby off his game and that is a special case, but Lidstrom shut down Crosby pretty well last year, so hopefully he can do so this year, too.
The Wings, for their part, have a pretty good offense, too - no one but Dallas Drake is out of the lineup from last season, although Draper isn't too likely to play either, and they added Hossa(who hasn't done anything anyway) and Ericsson(even though he was in the system last year). I think the story will probably be the development of players either way, though, since while Pittsburgh's stars have developed, a lot of Detroit's young guns, like Fillapula, Ericsson, Helm, and Lebda have really improved, and Cleary has looked better than I can remember him being, too.
Goaltending is where I'm really curious, though. Fleury has made some big saves, but his playoff stats have not been good and that high powered Pens offense has carried him on some level - I can't remember the last time I've seen a SCF goalie who was barely over .900. That'll almost certainly be higher against Detroit since they fire so many on net, but he's really going to have to step it up for the Pens.
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-nhl-10/49808?type=flv
Also:
http://i44.tinypic.com/17wfgw.jpg
2010's our year. 2009 was going to be our year but we decided not to cuz 2010 sounds cooler + Olympics in Vancouver and all that.
Also:
http://i44.tinypic.com/17wfgw.jpg
2010's our year. 2009 was going to be our year but we decided not to cuz 2010 sounds cooler + Olympics in Vancouver and all that.
Chatting with Carl we ran into something that has been bounced around occasionally between people before, but it'd be really fun to get a Smogon Keeper or Dynasty League going, I think, since we have a pretty similar amount of people every year and it makes it less pointless when it's obvious your team isn't going to win it all late in the season. I think it'd help out people like Vineon if we can get him playing again since especially a couple years down the line if he ends up with the prospects he needs it should be easy to maintain the gimmick, and in general it'll be nice for people to pick up players they like and keep them over the long term, and to be able to use the foresight a little more.
I'm just curious who might be interested in doing this right now to see if it is even viable - I think dropping down to 8 or 10 teams for the format might not be an awful idea, but it'd be nice to pull 12 if we can. If necessary the commish can give inactive teams to new users but I'd really like to keep as much consistency in the owners as possible, so it'd be nice to see what some of the regulars, as well as people who tend to post in the thread a lot, think.
Also NHL 10 looks pretty sick, really like seeing the new animations in the trail with the kick pass and the goal scored on Ovy's knees - hopefully it's a sign of more to come!
I'm just curious who might be interested in doing this right now to see if it is even viable - I think dropping down to 8 or 10 teams for the format might not be an awful idea, but it'd be nice to pull 12 if we can. If necessary the commish can give inactive teams to new users but I'd really like to keep as much consistency in the owners as possible, so it'd be nice to see what some of the regulars, as well as people who tend to post in the thread a lot, think.
Also NHL 10 looks pretty sick, really like seeing the new animations in the trail with the kick pass and the goal scored on Ovy's knees - hopefully it's a sign of more to come!
Suggested the same thing on IRC last year, but then you were unsure about the activity people would have. I'm definitly up for it and hope we can see it work.
How exactly does it work (either way I'm in lol).
I am all over that Dynasty League, but it would depend on the rules. How many players would we be allowed to keep from year to year? 3 would sound good to me, but I would want to hear feedback from you guys too. Also, would our draft order depend on our finish in the previous year, and would we penalize people bombing on purpose (or just go with the same system the NHL uses)?
If anyone's up for a game after the game tonight, you know I'm up for a few. =D
If anyone's up for a game after the game tonight, you know I'm up for a few. =D
Yeah I will be on for a game after the game, and I dont know what would be best for the bombing, but if your season is bad, I dont see why we would. In any case, I think we should go with a full system and keep everything in our systems and stuff, but I dont know if that is favorable for everyone and also I might not even play so my opinion is kind of half worth everyone elses at this point.
I'm rootin for Penguins all the way because I love Malkin. Second favorite after Ovechkin.
Psycho gotta play, I lub j00
Yeah, we'll seee.
