The Frozen Boundary [Peaked 10th in 3 Hours]

Katakiri

Listen, Brendan...
is a Researcher Alumnus
The Frozen Boundary
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(18:39:35) *** Your rank in Standard OU is 10/49981 [1501 points / 42 battles]! Screen Cap
"Did I just speed-run the ladder?..with Kyurem?"
After a mere 3 hours (& about 20 minutes) of battling, this team skyrocketed to the top 10 of OU. It was the absolute fastest I've ever gotten to even the top 40 of the ladder with a brand new team, let alone the top 10. Ironically this was never meant to be a truly competitive team; it was made as just a refresher team to play around & try something new since I was bored with my Musketeer team. Until I went through and broke everything down myself, I didn't actually understand why it was working as well as it was. But I've done some testing since then though, (I've been hovering in the 1400s since the peak) and because I've spent a little time with this team now, I understand some of the flaws, but for the sake off continuity I'm going to keep this RMT about the rank 10 version even though I know it has issues and just list my thoughts on problems & possible replacements in each Pokemon's team breakdown.


Team Building

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Kyurem: a perfect first piece for a team with it's decent speed, great bulk, massive offensive stats, and a very helpful Dragon-typing. Other than being weak to Stealth Rock, it has no glaring flaws.

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One solid Pokemon deserves another. Kyurem has a bit of an issue with Stall, specifically Chansey. I knew from previous experience that CM Refresh Latias cleans up that problem and Stall in general and it also covers Landorus & Terrakion, two of the Pokemon Kyurem fears the most.

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Instinctually, to cover Latias' weak points, Scizor was chosen as the next member. The two cover each other's weaknesses perfectly and Scizor also give Kyurem plenty of chances to switch in with U-turn's switch priority. Since I'm already using Scizor, this seemed like a perfect time to try out a set I thought of trying after watching an RU Match where a Expert Belt Rotom did all sorts of work, which seemed like a very smart idea for Rotom-W as well since everyone assumes a Scarf Rotom-W. Since Latias walks all over Gastrodon, there's no point in running Toxic so I can run Thunder Wave to ruin Rotom-W's other common switch-ins, flipping Kyurem's odds against faster Pokemon in the process.

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I still needed Stealth Rocks as well as a bit more Dragon protection. I knew that Latias, Rotom-W, & Kyurem had no shot against Salamence & Latios so Heatran fell into place as the Steel-type that can take a Fire Blast or HP Fire. Heatran, like Scizor, has perfect synergy with Latias

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Whimsicott was the perfect last choice but I actually only threw it on the team just to try it out. I never expected her to work so well. She gives me a way to prevent set-ups (Baton Pass can't even touch this team because of her) as well as a Pokemon to stop on-going sweeps. Having yet another Pokemon resistant to Water always helps too.

And that's actually my entire team-building process. Right after I made the team, it just took off, stomping everything in it's path. No changes were needed until after I peaked.



Team Breakdown
The "artwork" was done by me just for quick shits & giggles.

Latiasrmt.png

Celestia (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Refresh


Latias is the glue that holds everything together. Resistance to Fire, Grass, & Fighting are perfect for covering Rotom-W, Scizor, & Kyurem to an extent. She doesn't mind taking any status minus Sleep & Freeze, which means my team has no trouble with Toxic Stall with her around. In fact, there's only a handful of common Pokemon she has real trouble with after a CM boost: Leech Seed Ferrothorn, CM Jirachi, Scizor, Physical Tyranitar, Salamence, & Haxorus. Of course things like Mamoswine and Metagross can do a number on her, but they're not nearly as common as those 6.

The set is standard Calm Mind for any Pokemon really, but her typing, ability, & Refresh makes her absolute hell to take down since Burn, Toxic, & Paralysis can be removed. It renders Toxic Stall Politoed, Gliscor, & Heatran entirely useless, and those are some pretty big Pokemon for any team to say they have no issues with. It takes a few Calm Minds for her to get going, but once her counters are removed, she has no trouble sweeping teams.

But her counters are pretty solid Pokemon that can't just be removed at will. Ferrothorn is the biggest issue, however. He and Jirachi are the only Pokemon Rain teams generally carry that can shut down Latias with Scizor right behind them. So removing them is always my first priority in a match. Luckily, Kyurem's HP Fire & Heatran's Fire Blast roasts all 3, but, in Rain, they're much harder than that to take out, making Kyurem useless against them bar Focus Blast or a Hidden Power Fire on low HP Ferrothorn or Scizor and Heatran gets walled by the Water-types that accompany the Steel-types. For as essential as Latias is to the team, I NEED a good way to deal with them.

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Corset (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit


I'll never give up a chance to make Scizor look adorable.
This set is just vintage Scizor. U-turn to scout, Bullet Punch for priority, Pursuit to grab Latios, and sometimes Celebi, by the neck, and Superpower to hit Steel-types. It's all super-standard.

U-turn, as I stated before, lets Kyurem switch in safely as well as Whimsicott. Except for Tentacruel, nothing that enjoys switching in on Scizor will ever like Kyurem so they function extremely well together. Of course Volt-Turning is another strategy I have access too but I never find myself falling back on it all that often, surprisingly, since Kyurem, Heatran, & Whimsicott can handle nearly everything Rotom-W can. Scizor really is one of the biggest parts of the team just for U-turn alone. I never find myself using Bullet Punch much unless it's to revenge kill. I somehow use Pursuit more than Bullet Punch. She works at least, so no sense in me making problems where there aren't any.

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Adorabolt (Rotom-W) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave


Rotom-W is Scizor's partner in crime, forming the Volt-Turn strategy, which is as good as it is over-used. Rotom-W's weakness almost never comes into play since all 5 of it's teammates resist Grass. Because Rotom has the option to change attacks, it's job completely depends on what kind of team I see in team preview, but one thing usually stays certain; Rotom's bluffing a Choice Item until I can KO an unsuspecting Pokemon by switching moves. Ferrothorn & Gliscor in particular come up often. Rotom also paralyzes Physical Jirachi so Latias can always out-pace it to just set up and Refresh as she wishes. But outside of that, Thunder Wave cripples Rotom-W's switch-ins like Latios as well as help Kyurem & Latias sweep with their average speed.

Rotom keeps Water-types like Gyarados at bay. Bluffing the Choice Scarf not only scares Gyarados out at +1 due to him thinking Rotom will out-speed, but it also draws in Gyarados, Starmie, and the like if they think Rotom's locked into Hidden Power Fire or Hydro Pump. With how much I rely on bluffing Choice, I have a feeling I'll regret making this RMT if I run into someone that read it...

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Me Gustran (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Metal Sound
- Stealth Rock

Heatran is here for 1 reason: Stealth Rock. We should all be familiar with how Air Balloon Heatran plays minus Metal Sound so I won't go in-depth about her. Besides, I don't think she'll be on the team much longer anyhow... The Fire immunity is pretty nice, but unless it's Sun that I'm dealing with, Latias & Rotom-W can handle Fire attacks, even Kyurem has the bulk to tank a couple.

Heatran was fantastic on the way up the ladder, but after spending more time with the team, I found that Heatran gets stopped by the exact same Pokemon Kyurem does unless it nails them with a Metal Sound on the switch. Blissey and Chansey are bad enough, but it's the addition of being walled, or at least forced out, by Tentacruel that tipped the scales out of Heatran's favor for me. Tenta's just too common and when he's paired with Ferrothorn, (which is always) it leaves me with the big problem of my Tentacruel counter, Latias, being walled & Leech Seeded by Ferrothorn and not being able to do enough damage back even at +6 Special Attack. Again, Metal Sound does help Heatran's case, but it never feels like enough to justify running Heatran in the long run while I could be running something that doesn't need to lower their stats to deal with them.

I've tried replacing her with a few Pokemon, but nothing ever clicked. Magnezone was probably the closest to "it" but Mag still had the "can't touch Blissey" problem.

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Planty Pie (Whimsicott) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Encore
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Stun Spore


While her hair & Pokemon Cry may suggest a party, she's actually the biggest kill-joy in OU...wait, she's RU?...Huh. Anyway, sweeps do not happen when she's around. Encore & Stun Spore make sure of that, and Scizor's U-turn & Rotom-W's Volt Switch make sure she has no problem abusing it.

I love Whimsicott just for priority Stun Spore. U-turning Pokemon like Mienshao & Landorus give Latias a hard time, so Whimsicott switches in and brings them down to a speed Latias & Kyurem can handle, effectively destroying the other team's momentum. But there are so many things Whimsicott is great for slowing down that Whimsicott starts to get stretched thin when multiple Pokemon like that show up. Specifically Terrakion & Landorus, who leave huge dents in her afro. SubSeed is also great to have, but sometimes it actually makes Whimsicott a bit of a cleric for the team if the seeded Pokemon stays in as I switch to Latias or something. She does help out with stall but not as much as I'd like. But still, she's a very solid member of the team that more often than not will carry her fair share of the work.

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Ice Chicken (Kyurem) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]


All glory to the majestic Ice Chicken! Kyurem's like a mix of Dragonite & Latios. It's not the fastest Dragon, but it's bulky, oh so powerful, but not Pursuit-weak like Latios; in fact Kyurem trashes Tyranitar with Focus Blast, which also does quite a number on Blissey & Jirachi coming just short of a 2HKO. While Ice is the worst defensive typing, it does work with Dragon fairly well by cancelling Dragon's Ice weakness, letting Kyurem have more synergy with his Dragon brethren. In my case, it would be Latias. It's pretty much Starmie's worst nightmare come true. In fact, a large portion of Rain & Water-type Pokemon struggle to damage Kyurem. His insane power & coverage doesn't help them either.

Draco Meteor is Kyurem's bread & butter. After Steel-types are removed, which Kyurem can do by itself thanks to Focus Blast & HP Fire, the opposing Pokemon drop like flies every time Kyurem gets a chance to switch in. Ice Beam offers a fantastic second STAB when I want to save Draco Meteor or predict a switch to something like Ferrothorn while not risking too much due to Ice Beam's solid coverage. Focus Blast is what makes Kyurem terrifying. All teams pack a Latios counter, but a Focus Blast or 2 breaks most of the Pokemon that would wall Kyurem's cousin, specifically Tyranitar. Hidden Power Fire deals with Ferrothorn & Scizor, should I be bold enough to expect a U-turn. I sometimes do feel safe just attacking Scizor since I know that even if he Bullet Punches & takes down Kyurem, he's put himself in a very bad position as I have U-turn or Volt Switch to fall back on and regain my momentum. But I only risk it when I truly think Scizor will U-Turn.

In terms of this team, Kyurem is sometimes the MVP of the team and sometimes it's the least valuable. I specifically remember playing against the 6th rated player on the server and how Kyurem alone KOed 4 (may have been 3) members of his team. Sometimes Kyurem just works flawlessly and sometimes it's just forced to sit on the side-lines, cheering on it's team because something like a Full-Health Blissey or Chansey is lurking around the corner. In fact those two are almost always the reason Kyurem has to wait on the sidelines as he doesn't have much of a problem with any other walls. Even Tentacruel takes about 80% from Draco Meteor. Unfortunately, in the upper half of the ladder, (I keep my search settings to a 150 point difference) Blissey & Chansey are more staples of stall than they are in the lower half, making life up top much harder for Kyurem.


Threat List

I'm working on the threat list but I pretty much went over all the common Pokemon that work-over the team in the Team Breakdown.

Importable
Planty Pie (Whimsicott) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Encore
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Stun Spore


Celestia (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Refresh


Adorabolt (Rotom-W) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave


Ice Chicken (Kyurem) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SAtk / 244 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Corset (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit


Me Gustran (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Metal Sound
- Stealth Rock

As always, I'm open to suggestions. That is why I'm writing this after all. I'm happy with peaking 10th, but I feel like I can do better than that with some feedback. Let's get this Ice Chicken to the top, shall we?
 
I do suggest running a Sub+3 Attacks set on Kyurem. It works very well against faster threats once a sub is up. Here's the set:

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Modest
~ Substitute
~ Focus Blast
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Ice Beam

With this set, Kyurem can now attack those faster Pokemon with that massive base 130 SpA. The EV spread will give you 405 HP meaning you can make 101 Substitutes and the ability to switch into Stealth Rock 4 times without dying since you have no spinner. The Speed is customed to outrun Dragonite and Adamant Lucario. The rest of the moves are pretty much self explanatory although the loss of HP Fire is kinda great. This works well as a late game sweeper seeing that your moves doesn't really pack that much of a punch(loss of Life Orb and Draco Meteor) and some Steel-types walling you. You can still opt for HP Fire in place of Focus Blast but then it'll leave you walled by Heatran and Tyranitar.
 
Good team and Well Done for peaked 3.

I suggest a Sub + 3 Attacks Kyurem for have a better staying power
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 236 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Modest
~ Substitute
~ Focus Blast
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Ice Beam

A little thing, give 20 Evs in Speed to Scizr for outspeed Taunt Jellicent and some Tyranitar who put enough Evs in Speed for outspeed Zor with 12 Evs in Speed.

You have an excellent team, really good work so I puted a Luvdisc.
 
I actually suggest the opposite of the above poster; Remove all Speed EV's from scizor and put them into SpDef. A slow U-Turn is always a good thing, especially when you're trying to get Kyurem, Whimsicott, or even Rotom-W in safely. It makes you lose the speed tie against most other scizor, which means that you'll have momentum by the end of the turn.
 
There's no reason to change Kyurem. Leftovers kills his damage output which he needs to OHKO Heatran to prevent SR from getting up in the first place. On top of that, Stealth Rock isn't a big issue since, like I said before, Kyurem nukes something nearly every time he comes in if Chansey & Blissey aren't around. Kyurem stays around for just as long as I need him. In fact, Kyurem usually out-lasts Scizor most matches. Longevity really isn't an issue...well not nearly as much as power would be otherwise. That raw "umph" Life Orb gives is what, I believe, makes Kyurem really shine.

As for Kyurem's speed, I run just enough to out-pace Adamant Haxorus.

Since Scizor is one of the Pokemon that troubles Latias, I prefer my Scizor to out-pace others just so I can Superpower them to get rid of them ASAP. It seems small, but it's well worth it once Latias starts drilling through the other team.

The number one thing I'm wanting to figure out is a good replacement for Heatran. It doesn't have to do anything that Heatran does, (although SR is always nice) it need to beat those walls that Latias & Kyurem have trouble with like I said up top in Heatran's section. I feel that Heatran is the weakest link so I have no problem with replacing her for something that better compliments the team.

Edit: Just a funny 4-turn replay from the day I peaked. http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Nigga-Bat-vs-Katakiri-Remy--2012-03-21-private440165210 Gotta love when hilarity ensues.

Edit 2: @Starm - I'll actually give more Speed on Scizor a shot since I have been running into a bizarre amount of "speedy" Tyranitar and it's kind of getting on my nerves.
 
Definitely don't use Sub + 3 Attacks Kyurem without Hail or without Spin support. That set really needs both of those things. I'd suggest you give a mixed set with Outrage over HP Fire or Focus Blast a try though. Very difficult to wall. I also don't know what that speed is for. Adamant Haxorus is faster than Modest Kyurem.

Otherwise, looks cool. Good luck.
 
Definitely don't use Sub + 3 Attacks Kyurem without Hail or without Spin support. That set really needs both of those things. I'd suggest you give a mixed set with Outrage over HP Fire or Focus Blast a try though. Very difficult to wall. I also don't know what that speed is for. Adamant Haxorus is faster than Modest Kyurem.

Otherwise, looks cool. Good luck.
Thanks!

The Speed is for the on-site Choice Band Haxorus. It only runs 220 Speed EVs to have 32 HP EVs, letting it take a Reuniclus Psychic & a Landorus LO Earthquake.

It's not entirely necessary to run 244 Speed, but unless there's a specific Pokemon that can't KO Kyurem because of the EVs put into HP or something, I'd rather just have the extra insurance against a solid Pokemon like CB Haxorus. I couldn't imagine 20 EVs in HP is going to make a giant difference with as bulky as Kyurem naturally is. (Heatran is beat at 216 EVs so I want Kyurem 2 points above that to beat the Pokemon that EV for Heatran as well, so that's where the 20 EVs come from.)
 
Looking up and down the list of the pokemon that get Stealth Rock, it seems to me that the best replacement for Heatran is Metagross (Or some kind of Jirachi that can avoid being Tentacruel and Blissey set up bait I guess)

I don't know what Metagross set fits your team better (mainly because i'm not sure what do you want him to do really) but something with SR/Meteor Mash/Earthquake/filler should do the trick.

GL with your team!
 
Indeed a very solid team that makes HO take a different initiative with some Volt/Turn and the use of the uncommon Whimsicott and the underrated Kyurem. I agree with other people´s suggestions of using Sub Kyurem recommended above. Sub Kyurem does not necesarily needs Hail support to succeed since there was a guy here who suceeded on Smogon using it with a Drag-Mag strategy. Under a Sub, he will be able to hit hard its common checks like Scizor & Terrakion.

However I would like to know how you deal with CB Terrakion because you got no resistance to Rock. Terrakion will freely spam Stone Edge when he gets a chance and its pretty obvious that Whimsicott will paralyze it, so it will switch-out. Stone Edge 2HKOs Latias at best and Scizor is your only reliable check. Also how do you deal with SR? Kyurem dies too quickly if SR is on your field and it reduces its chances to come in.

Overall very creative and solid team you made. I loved your drawings, especially the epic Latias face :D. 5/5 and a Luvdisc! <3
 
Hi there ! This is a very very interesting RMT and congratulation for your success on the ladder.
I Like a lot both Kyurem and Whimsicott but I never took the time to build something with or around them since I'm still focusing on sun team.
Let's talk about the threat list which is still not posted:

- As you said, Blissey and her little sister are a pain because Kuyrem can't pass threw them and even Latias at +6 because it is only a 3HKO.

That was for the defensive main threat, concerning the offensive ones I can quote:

- Heydreigon because he is faster than all your Pokemons and under a sub if faster than Kyurem it might be a real pain. You are very weak to fire moves then and because of Whimsicott, a good oppenent will tend to use a fire attack. He he died earlier you are dead since your Heatran has nothing for him, Rotom-W can't deal any dommage but T-wave is a good option, I agree. Scizor and Tias are hopeless.

- Dugtrio is a huge threat because Reversal + 2 Life orbe dammages and it is one garanted kill on Kyurem.

- Taunt Heatran can be a problem since Latias has only D Pulse and you have no safe switch because of your offensive Rotom-W who is 2HKO under sun. This case is not common, I admit.

- Volcarona ! It is very dangerous, if there is no SR+ if heatran is dead OR if it has HP Ground then Whimsicott is your last chance but a paralysis alone will not be sufficient.

- Scizor, I don't need to explain why I guess.

From this little threat list I made, YOU HAVE TO KEEP HEATRAN !!!! ^^

Let's talk about the suggestion. You really need baloon on Tran because of Dugtrio and because of the others Tran. I suggest you to put Magma Storm over Fireblast for 2 reasons. 1 It is an OHKO on dugtrio with focus sash. 2 It traps the pink caws ! You need SR and Metal sound is not so bad in this case.Otherwise I might suggest you to put taunt in order to prevent her from recovering. I also red that Tentacruel was a pain because Kyurem can't OHKO it. Magma storm, metal sound + Erathpower. Does it sounds cool? Go ahead !

As I said, Volcarona is a huge threat and an offensive Rotom like yours is useless because it is OHKO with SR at +1. " Yes but I need to deal great dammages to Nattorei". Replace it with WoW ! less 12% + less 12% and Focus Blast Kyurem will finish him !
Hp fire under rain does like 40% isn't it?
The problem is that Spikes + SR and your Kyurem will have some trouble but there is still the Latias option :)
Well, about Rotom-W I'm not so sure at all but about Heatran, there is no doubt.

Hope I helped you.
 
I agree you need to keep Heatran on the team. However, have you thought about trying one of the old HeaTrap sets from gen 4? To me that looks like the best way around your teams problems, helping Blissey in particular, but also making it easier to play around Tentacruel. You can go with Explosion and Life Orb but since its nerf it only does like 60% to Blissey, let alone Chansey, so I recommend going with this set I've had a lot of success with:

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Heatran @ Leftovers, Calm nature
248 HP / 100 SpDef / 160 Spe
-Magma Storm
-Toxic
-Taunt
-Stealth Rock / Protect

I slashed Protect in there mainly just to let you know that its the best option, but it doesn't look like you can replace SR on this team. Without Protect you won't usually be able to beat Blissey 1v1 (Chansey more often because of no Lefties), but you'll still have it trapped in play with almost no health left (meaning you can easily stop it healing up with Scizor).

I still really don't like how 4/6 of your team can't do anything to Blissey. To be honest though I don't really see what to change, since you say Latias is so vital defensively. Try going Mixed with Kyurem and run Outrage > Ice Beam (/ HP Fire if you get tired of Rain teams), you'll take ~65% and ~55% off Bliss and Chansey respectively (and you also OHKO Tentacruel after a couple of SR switches which is nice).

Hope these suggestions help, really cool team.
 
Should have mentioned earlier that you could try Donphan over Whimsicott. You lose a little of its ability to stop set uppers but it shouldn't really be an issue. In return you get Rapid Spin, a way to wrest momentum away from Volt Switchers, and a good lead against the bog standard Tyranitar + VoltTurn teams which will guarantee you a hazard advantage.

EDIT: And oh yeah the team is massively Fighting weak. Dunno why I keep forgetting to post stuff. But really anything Fighting can destroy this.
 
Hey there Katakiri this is a really neat team and I wish I could utilize uncommon threats as well as you. Anyways, I see a major CB Terrakion weakness here as while your Latias can switch into Close Combat, nothing can switch into Stone Edge. Stone Edge is doing around 51-60% to Latias and is guarenteed a 2HKO, given that Latias doesn't outspeed Terrakion, so you will have to end up sacrificing Latios or something else, because everything on this team is also 2HKOed. While you can always hope for a miss or try and pp stall, Terrakion has potential to cause amazing damage to this team with Stone Edge alone and even if that runs out of pp, it can still manage to crush pretty much everything with Close Combat as well, especially if Latias is somehow weakened. Scizor is your only means of reliably killing Terrakion and it can barely switch in, as Close Combat/Stone Edge does around 80%, so a combination of Spikes and Terrakion could be fatal. All in all, Choice Band Terrakion can cause massive damage to this team and you really having nothing from stopping it. While you rely on Whimsicott to give you priority paralysis somewhat, I honestly think that you can do without it and could potentially replace it for a Defensive Tangrowth with Stun Spore. With Regenerator and 100/125 Physical Bulk, Tangrowth is one of the best Physical walls, as well as answers to Terrakion in OU. Regenerator ensures its longevity and its bulk makes sure it can't be 2HKO'd by Stone Edge outside of crits while Close Combat's Chance to 2HKO is quite small. Giga Drain and Stun Spore ensure that Terrakion won't be doing anything while Leech Seed can allow Tangrowth to sap away health from threats much like Whimsicott does.

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Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stun Spore[


I can also see Choice Banded Infernape being threatening for the same reasons that CB Terrakion is. CB Infernape is capable of dealing heavy damage to every one of your team members between Flare Blitz/U-Turn and Close Combat [scores an OHKO almost 100% of the time on your Rotom-W build]. Unlike Choice Band Terrakion, however, you have no ways to reliably revenge kill Choice Band Infernape, so it could potentially wreak even more havoc on your team. Latias can tank a U-Turn, but Infernape certainly won't fall after a Dragon Pulse. You might be able to scrape together a means of beating it, but it will do a ton of damage to the team in the process. While I'm aware that Rotom-W's scarf bluffing is an essential part of this team's strategy, I honestly think that changing it to a scarf variant would help cover many threats in general, including many strong Choice band Users that threaten this team. While bluffing a Scarf is certainly a useful tactic, I think that actually using one would do wonders for this team in terms of checking threats.

Change Summary:

Rotom-W:
Expert Belt-> Choice Scarf
 
Only thing I can see is DDNite. Why? Because thats what I beat this team with. xD

I had already KO'd Scizor with Magnezone. I had forgotten about Whimsicott and you encore'd me as I DD'd, but after a few switches I got in there and KO'd her on the switch with Dragon Claw. Then, you switched in Kyurem as I went to Scizor. After just a few more turns, at +1, I swept your other 4 (including Kyurem) with Nite. It was maybe 2 weeks ago, so I can't remember every detail, but as soon as I saw this team I remembered the match (it was a close 2-0, with just Nite and Zone remaining).

However, I ran EQ over Fire Punch on Nite since I also had Zone, and your Heatran's Air Balloon was already gone, due what I *think* was from my Scizor's BP. And so, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, but if Heatran's been hit and Nite gets a DD, it's good game.

;D
 

Hi Katakiri, great team and good job with that peak :o. As Grimm mentioned, Volcarona and Substitute Hydreigon are threats to this team. You have a chance at stopping Volcarona with Whimsicott's Prankster Stun Spore, but that 75% accuracy might be a problem. Substitute Hydreigon is really tricky to play around, as once it gets its sub up, the only way your breaking it is with Scizor's Bullet Punch so usually you will have to sac something. A Specially Defensive Heatran would help as it can survive a Focus Blast from Leftovers Hydreigon and Roar it out (the same goes for Volcarona). Lava Plume's burn rate will also help Latias combat those physical threats such as CB Terrakion better, as its Stone Edge's while burned will only do about 30% to Latias, so between Recover and accuracy mishaps, you will easily be able to stall them out. A small change you could make to beat Volcarona is using Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor. Sure you miss out on the sure ko on Celebi, Latios etc, but with Latias and Heatran around you shouldn't really be scared of them. Quick Attack also helps with revenge killing Water-types such as Starmie, who does a number on your team in rain.

Heatran | Flash Fire | Air Balloon
Calm | 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Lava Plume | Roar | Stealth Rock | Earth Power

Good luck with the team and nice art ;)
 
Thanks everyone! I'm loving all this feedback!

umm without a Life Orb, Kyurem really can't touch Jirachi either. It really needs all that power and you would have to change a lot of the team around to mess with Kyurem.
Exactly. The loss of power & coverage from Sub Kyurem would kind of break everything since the team was built specifically around Life Orb Kyurem. It's meant to switch in & do as much damage as it can before it's forced out. But I also lead with it more often than not just because it's coverage is great and none of the weather starters can real with Kyurem, so while they get their weather advantage, I have the advantage overall since I can remove of their Pokemon for free. Ice Beam OHKOes Multiscale Dragonite and has great neutral coverage for a STAB, which, after testing Outrage, just seems much more valuable against any team without Blissey/Chansey.

Hey there Katakiri this is a really neat team and I wish I could utilize uncommon threats as well as you. Anyways, I see a major CB Terrakion weakness here as while your Latias can switch into Close Combat, nothing can switch into Stone Edge. Stone Edge is doing around 51-60% to Latias and is guarenteed a 2HKO, given that Latias doesn't outspeed Terrakion, so you will have to end up sacrificing Latios or something else, because everything on this team is also 2HKOed. While you can always hope for a miss or try and pp stall, Terrakion has potential to cause amazing damage to this team with Stone Edge alone and even if that runs out of pp, it can still manage to crush pretty much everything with Close Combat as well, especially if Latias is somehow weakened. Scizor is your only means of reliably killing Terrakion and it can barely switch in, as Close Combat/Stone Edge does around 80%, so a combination of Spikes and Terrakion could be fatal. All in all, Choice Band Terrakion can cause massive damage to this team and you really having nothing from stopping it. While you rely on Whimsicott to give you priority paralysis somewhat, I honestly think that you can do without it and could potentially replace it for a Defensive Tangrowth with Stun Spore. With Regenerator and 100/125 Physical Bulk, Tangrowth is one of the best Physical walls, as well as answers to Terrakion in OU. Regenerator ensures its longevity and its bulk makes sure it can't be 2HKO'd by Stone Edge outside of crits while Close Combat's Chance to 2HKO is quite small. Giga Drain and Stun Spore ensure that Terrakion won't be doing anything while Leech Seed can allow Tangrowth to sap away health from threats much like Whimsicott does.

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Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stun Spore[


I can also see Choice Banded Infernape being threatening for the same reasons that CB Terrakion is. CB Infernape is capable of dealing heavy damage to every one of your team members between Flare Blitz/U-Turn and Close Combat [scores an OHKO almost 100% of the time on your Rotom-W build]. Unlike Choice Band Terrakion, however, you have no ways to reliably revenge kill Choice Band Infernape, so it could potentially wreak even more havoc on your team. Latias can tank a U-Turn, but Infernape certainly won't fall after a Dragon Pulse. You might be able to scrape together a means of beating it, but it will do a ton of damage to the team in the process. While I'm aware that Rotom-W's scarf bluffing is an essential part of this team's strategy, I honestly think that changing it to a scarf variant would help cover many threats in general, including many strong Choice band Users that threaten this team. While bluffing a Scarf is certainly a useful tactic, I think that actually using one would do wonders for this team in terms of checking threats.

Change Summary:

Rotom-W:
Expert Belt-> Choice Scarf

I tried Tangrowth, but it didn't click. It draws in Scizor & is setup bait for Pokemon with Sub. Whimsicott did draw in Scizor, but just putting up a Sub as he U-turns pretty much solves that at least temporarily. Tangrowth is extremely vulnerable to attacks & especially Status because it's so slow. Nothing without U-turn or a Grass-typing really likes switching in on Whimsicott if it's Sub is up since Whimsi's SubSeed is pretty much BS. Tangrowth also opened up a hole for Salamence to do whatever he wants if Heatran's Balloon is popped. Whimsicott can at least Stun Spore or Encore.

Tangrowth just seemed to cause more problems than it solved. He beats...well only one STAB of Terrakion's, but he doesn't do much of anything else. After thinking it over, with Volcarona deal with (See my next reply), I have a few other Whimsicott replacement in mind for Terrakion & friends, a few of which can't be 2HKOed by anything Choice Band Terrakion runs.
We'll see how those work out though.
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As for Rotom-W, I don't run Expert Belt just to bluff. It's to have the ability to change attacks, which I definitely need. Like I said before, Ferrothorn & Jirachi shut down Latias, so having the ability to use HP Fire or Thunder Wave to cripple them is invaluable. On top of that, when something scouts with Protect and sees that HP Fire, the last thing I want is Heatran, Volcarona, or Dragons switching in for free because of Choice Scarf, while Volt Switch on the other hand will draw in Ground-types which will Stealth Rock or, in Landorus' case, Sub and/or Stat boost. It also helps me when I Thunder Wave something like an incoming Celebi or Latios, letting me Volt Switch to scout what they're doing. It's just another case of losing more than I gain.

Just like most teams I make, this one relies a good deal on not giving my opponent a chance to set up by applying constant pressure. Having an turtle-defense Pokemon like Tangrowth or giving away free switch-ins via immunities because of Choice-locked moves just messes with the flow & balance of the team. Whimsicott only works because nothing can set-up on her aside from laying down Spikes, but her teammates deal with those Pokemon easily.

Hi Katakiri, great team and good job with that peak :o. As Grimm mentioned, Volcarona and Substitute Hydreigon are threats to this team. You have a chance at stopping Volcarona with Whimsicott's Prankster Stun Spore, but that 75% accuracy might be a problem. Substitute Hydreigon is really tricky to play around, as once it gets its sub up, the only way your breaking it is with Scizor's Bullet Punch so usually you will have to sac something. A Specially Defensive Heatran would help as it can survive a Focus Blast from Leftovers Hydreigon and Roar it out (the same goes for Volcarona). Lava Plume's burn rate will also help Latias combat those physical threats such as CB Terrakion better, as its Stone Edge's while burned will only do about 30% to Latias, so between Recover and accuracy mishaps, you will easily be able to stall them out. A small change you could make to beat Volcarona is using Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor. Sure you miss out on the sure ko on Celebi, Latios etc, but with Latias and Heatran around you shouldn't really be scared of them. Quick Attack also helps with revenge killing Water-types such as Starmie, who does a number on your team in rain.

Heatran | Flash Fire | Air Balloon
Calm | 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Lava Plume | Roar | Stealth Rock | Earth Power
Good luck with the team and nice art ;)
I'm loving the Heatran set so far! Ironically the very first team I battled after changing Heatran had a Sub Hydreigon.

Quick Attack is definitely helping on Scizor as well. I do miss Pursuit when I run into Latios, but I do gain more from Quick Attack than Pursuit and, with the new Heatran, I'm not feeling too pressured by Latios.


Every time I get working on the Threat List, I end up playing PO instead. I'll try to get it up today.
 
I've settled on a Whimsicott replacement. I've gotten another fresh account to over 1400 points on both the Smogon Server and the PO Server. ("Katakiri Remy Alty") So this team has 2 variants in the top 100 on Smogon now, one being the Whimsicott version and the other leading the charge with:
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Shrapnel (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed
- Bullet Punch


Somehow this slot went from Whimsicott to Hippowdon to Machamp to Lucario in less than a week. Lucario has many jobs on this team. He makes Scizor absolutely terrifying late-game since Scizor shares a good deal of counters with Lucario, meaning that they get all softened up or flat-out removed as the battle rages on. After that happens, Scizor just has to bide his time until he can sweep with Bullet Punch. Lucario also runs through stall bar Jellicent, who is more than handled by Rotom-W & Latias. With ExtremeSpeed, he handles the Ferrothorn/Tentacruel combo that troubled me before. After one Swords Dance, Skarmory takes upwards of 95% from Close Combat; Terrakion eat your heart out.

And on the subject Terrakion, I finally have a Pokemon that not only quad-resists Stone Edge, but also carries Super Effective Priority should I need to remove him, with the bonus of not being open to Magnezone like Scizor. ExtremeSpeed also helps out Scizor in keeping Volcarona, Dragons, and all those Pokemon Whimsicott had to Stun Spore in check. I'm not hurting too much having Lucario open to Jellicent and Bullet Punch is well worth it any with all the Pokemon it smacks in the face, (Hi Gengar) so it might look like Priority overkill, but there's a method to my madness.

Although I haven't gotten a chance to try out Justified since it's still illegal on both Smogon & PO, (that will change with Smogon's next server update since I pointed it out) but since I don't have a real need for Ice Punch as I need Bullet Punch and have Latias to trash Gliscor, there's not any real reason to use Inner Focus. With Latias provoking Crunches from every Tyranitar in OU, I'd be a fool to pass-up a free +1 Attack boost. But even without Justified, Lucario's been doing it's job flawlessly so far. So with all that said, I'm definitely happy with Lucario. I'll see how high I can peak since I wasn't really trying to forcefully climb the ladder yesterday. I'll make some quick artwork then update the RMT after that.


As a side note, I've been considering HP Grass on Rotom-W. I don't use HP Fire nearly as much as I thought I would, and blasting Quagsire & Gastrodon away from Stall teams would be pretty useful. But so is hitting Ferrothorn. I'll make sure to test it today.
 
if you're going to test hp grass, test hp flying too; it hits virizion and breloom.

It's gimmicky, but it works. (too lazy to check if your team deals with virizion and breloom already)
 
And then I ran into about 10 Celebi in a row. Ugh. Needless to say, Lucario now carries Crunch over ExtremeSpeed, which is unfortunately illegal with Justified.

I'm testing HP Grass, but as always, when I want to test against a certain Pokemon, it never shows up until I change the set again...

I keep forgetting that Kyurem can't be OHKOed by Landorus Stone Edge. I really shouldn't be afraid of him in team preview. Gotta keep focused.
 
I haven't played OU in a while, so I may be making a ridiculous comment here, but if you're having trouble with Celebi, you could always try Shuca Berry over Air Balloon on Heatran. The surprise factor will help you a lot, and, more than that, will help you to at least weaken Celebi.

This is a really great team, I can't help it any more than the one little piece of advice, so I hope it helped somewhat.
 
can I steal your Kyurem art? it's beautiful ;_;

also sand stall runs all over you xd stoutland forever!
 
Cool team, Katakiri! You somehow made Kyurem work without being paired with Abomasnow, and you also have Whimsicott :o (well not anymore). Props for peaking so high on the ladder!

You showed some discontent towards the team's trouble with certain Steel-types in the Rain. Steel-types, namely Ferrothorn and Jirachi, are a pain to your dragons, and HP Fire is dampened by the Rain. I suggest giving this team some weather control with Sunny Day Heatran.

Heatran @ Leftovers / Air Balloon | Flash Fire
Modest / Timid | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
~ Magma Storm / Fire Blast
~ Sunny Day
~ Taunt
~ Earth Power / Will-O-Wisp / SolarBeam


Sunny Day-boosted Fire STAB and Taunt would make Heatran one mean wall-breaker. With Magma Storm negating Leftovers and Taunt preventing recovery it can even beat down Chansey and Blissey. Tentacruel is less annoying with the Sun removing Rain Dish recovery and Scald's power. Taunt would also prevent Tentacruel from setting up Toxic Spikes on the team, allowing Heatran to beat the Ferrothorn + Tentacruel combo that you mentioned.

What more, it also helps Kyurem's offense by boosting its HP Fire to break through Steel-types. Rotom-W have its Hydro Pump weakened momentarily in exchange for the ability to beat Grass- and Steel-types with Sun-augmented HP Fire.

SolarBeam is a great boon to fire off against Water-types and Tyranitar, whereas Earth Power is better for Tentacruel and Heatran, as well as hitting Terrakion on the switch. Wisp is a good way to cripple Dragon-types locked into Outrage, Tyranitar, or anything trapped by Magma Storm.

The only danger of Sunny Day Heatran is boosting the offenses of opposing Heatrans. If you don't opt to run Earth Power on your Heatran, it may be a good idea to boost Latias's Speed to 280 to outrun Timid Heatran, in order to get a Calm Mind / Recover in before enemy's Heatran's 2nd attack. I chose an offensive spread, but you can always try a bulkier spread so Heatran can take more abuse for the team. A spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA, Modest Nature can survive a Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat at full-health, for instance.

The only drawback of this set is the loss of SR, but this may be worth a try to have better control over Rain teams. If necessary, I guess you can give it Stealth Rock on the fourth slot. I hope you give this your consideration :d

Congrats to your success, Katakiri.
 
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