The Mantis-Star Formula

[Doctor Who?]

With Latias sent back up to Ubers, ruining my newest team that enabled me to climb the ranks, I was sent back to the drawing board. This disaster was not remedied by the fact that any new team I created ended up as an abysmal failure. So, giving up on new ideas or originality, I reverted back to some tried and tested teams. The team that stood out though was one that was created in a Latias-free metagame, late 2008 iirc, and a team that really struggled against Latias, once again ruining a good team.
So for this team I'll tkae a stroll down memory lane and let's hope that this team actually receives more than one helpful rate.
Overview for your viewing pleasure:

@Leftovers
252 HP/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly

Earthquake
Roost
Taunt
U-Turn

Gliscor has been a somewhat great lead throughout all of my most recent teams, but its best days were when it didn't have Stealth Rock, so as a result I removed Stealth Rock and put it on Heatran, who I didn't feel needed any other 4th move. Gliscor is a solid counter to Metagross as well as Lucario. Against suicide leads I haven't had nearly as many problems as when I was using Stealth Rock instead of U-Turn, so I am feeling that I made the right choice.

I dumped all the EVs into speed so that at very worst I could tie with other Gliscor but I haven't really seen any recently so maybe I should invest more so that I can 2HKO Metagross with Earthquake maybe?

One on one Gliscor saves me from many pokemon stall-based (Scizor's nightmare). Hippowdon, Blissey, Forretress, Skarmory and Breloom are all beaten one on one with Taunt and Earthquake, making this Gliscor an impressive wall breaker ripped off Curse of the Tyranitar by Legacy Raider.

@Choice Scarf
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid

Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Trick

I love Starmie so much, yet I wish it had better defences. I don't really mind the Pursuit weakness as much as I normally would, using it as an opportunity to set up Swords Dance Scizor for free. This thing hits so hard that I don't know why anybody uses Specsstar at all and I can switch moves and recover at will.

I only really use this late game because revenge killers like Scarftar really ruin the sweep, and if it does get Pursuited I can bring Scizor in and beat the hopefully already weakened team. But the banning of Latias should mean I'll be seeing less Scarftar hopefully (fingers crossed).

Starmie is sort a wallbreaker which threatens things and after being defeated Scizor comes in on that pokemon and sets up.

@Choice Scarf
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly

Stone Edge
Crunch
Earthquake
Pursuit

Tyranitar remains my primary check to Starmie, Gengar and Heatran. By Pursuiting the former two I remove dangerous threats and by Earthquaking I remove the latter. Hence it is for this reason that I chose Earthquake rather than Superpower.

Tyranitar conveniently checks three big threats but it was mainly chosen because it has excellent synergy with Scizor, the pokemon this team was intended to support and based around.

Scarf Pursuit from this guy after the target has been Taunted by Gliscor is a blessing against the type of team that Scizor falls short against - stall. With this tried and true method I defeat Blissey, Rotom-A Cresselia and most of all Celebi (after being Taunted it has no choice but to eat a 4x super effective U-Turn without revoering for the next few turns or switch out and give me the advantegous switch).

@Life Orb
36 HP/252 SAtk/220 Spd
Timid

Leaf Storm
Hidden Power [Fire]
Psychic
Recover

I've always had a really soft spot for Celebi - great stats across the board, a pretty nice movepool and the ability to take out the super annoying Swampert and with a life orb set its actually really powerful and has nice coverage whichever way I go.

The moveset in this case is really hard to decide, basically I really want Hidden Power [Fire] because Scizor is an ever potent threat to Celebi, but the other two moves are hard to decide. I'm a mess beating either Machamp and Heatran but I think Heatran is bit easier to beat a.k.a good prediction from Scizor so I might go Psychic.

Celebi doesn't really help Scizor at all except maybe providing another Pursuit weakness he can utilize to set up.

@Shuca Berry
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
Hasty

Fire Blast
Earth Power
Explosion
Stealth Rock

Heatran is the member I am most unsure of, but what I do know is that I need him to check Scizor. When I opted for Gliscor to not carry Stealth Rock I chose Heatran to run it instead. Why? Because Explosion is unnecessary because Blissey is trapped by Tyranitar getting Taunted. I decided to just run Leftovers because I barely notice the power difference w/ or w/o LO.

Whenever I switch Heatran into Scizor or something of the like I usually SR to keep Gyarados and Salamence at bay and scout for switch ins. The second team I come in I'll use Dragon Pulse because Heatran's chacks always take at least neutral damage from it and I might catch a Salamence entering because if it DDs and can survive Bullet Punch from Scizor that is gg. Remember to suggest EV spread/nature because I'm quite unsure of them.

Heatran obviously supports Scizor by absorbing Will-o-wisp and Flamethrower aimed at Scizor and also to take down Rotom-A that don't carry Hydro Pump.

@Life Orb
188 HP/252 Atk/60 Spd
Adamant

Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Brick Break
Roost

And Scizor is the product of the team's whole game up till now.

A lot of people are using CB Scizor and up till now I would've done the same, but recently on another team I used him to a great degree of success without any support. This made me simply marvel at how well he could sweep with the necessary support.

I never even used a bug move the whole time I had that on the set so I switched to Roost instead. This allowed me to run a Life Orb instead of Leftovers because I no longer had to worry about the residual samage that builds up because I find that Scizor is constantly entering throughout the game threatening a sweep or the opponent's Tyranitar so the residual buildup is actually quite large.


If you suggest changes please make some sound reasoning, I know from experience that willy nilly changes destroy teams. Also please give this team multiple rates, the whole purpose of my signing would be to have my teams rated so yeah that would help.

I suppose I need a team building process to make this thread look slightly less unattractive:

I based the team around Swords Dance Scizor because his capabilities without support were amazing, and so I marvelled about the prospects with support.

I thought about excellent partners with Scizor. I had used Latias in conjunction with Scizor in the past with great success. Basically I needed something that could switch in to Rotom-A/Heatran with ease to make Scizor's job easier.

Next I needed something that could switch into fire attacks and utilize the attack rather than get worn down eventually like TTar. I also thought it would pay to have another Rotom checkas TTar is easily burned.

For the next pokemon it became apparent that I needed a water resistance because the two aids to Scizor had water weaknesses. Celebi was chosen because of the ability to take down Swampert as well as other bulky waters, also providing a back up plan if Scizor died because the same things counter Scizor counter Celebi so they would still get eliminated by TTar and Heatran. Also I didn't really want to use a Rotom because they get quite boring after a while.

At this stage I needed a ground immunity as well. Gliscor fitted in quite well, eliminating the need for Explosion on Heatran, which opened up the spot on Heatran for Stealth Rock which in turn opened up a spot on Gliscor for U-Turn! With U-Turn Gliscor could become a good stallbreaker making Scizor's sweep easier.

Starmie is just a really cool pokemon that seemed to be able to sweep after TTar was taken care of by Scizor and Blissey was taken care of by Gliscor + TTar. There was really no other reason. Also water/fire/grass combo with Heatran and Celebi is cool I guess?

And now the final team:

Remember! Please rate instead of just view!

 

[greenstreet]

Run brick break over superpower on scizor, you're going to hate getting revenge killed by other scizor's bullet punch due to the defense drop.

 

[Shizzle]

On Scizor that set doesn't work as well as a more Specially Defensive set, his Base Defense is high already, and with no real physical fire move [bar the rarely used Flare Blitz], his SpD is his only real concern.

As greenstreet said, Brick Break > SuperPower, I dont see why you would want a defense drop when you are going for a sweep.

Your method of using Heatran as a Stealth Rocker and a Scizor counter is actually a terrible idea. Stealth Rock is only good if you can put them down early in the battle, if you do this with Heatran, you give away your check, and if a CB Scizor comes into something else, they will quite easily predict a switch to Heatran and use SuperPower.

There are too many Life Orbs, Starmie and Celebi are going to be taking 16% per turn just by attacking, far too much, and after 2-3 turns + SR damage, Scizor can come in and Bullet Punch them out. Either make a bulkier leftovers Celebi set with Thunderwave, which would be great with both Heatran and Scizor.

 

[ginganinja]

Well I can see that this is a pretty fine team but I will endever to make it better.

Firstly you have a massive water weakness and Suicune can deal serious damage provided that Starmie is gone (wich is entirely possiable since an opponient may run a scarf Tar of his own. Also since half of your team is weak to water you are forced to switch to starmie and celebi to sponge assults. I would tentatively suggest a Sub + DD Kingdra over Heatran for a few reason. Firstly it gives you another water resist and still handles scizor which you stated that you wanted Heatran to do. Kingdra can also take repeated Surfs from Suicune or can batter your opponient with Dragon Dance. However, again its just a suggestion.
Unfortuatly this means that you los a fire move and SR must go back onto Gliscor so its up to you I guess.

Brick Break over Superpower since it will only hit Skarmory harder than Brick Break would and using Superpower forces you to use SD again to increase your attack.

Thats it really, other than the water issue I think that you have most threats covered.

Have a Nice Day!

I personally think

 

[franky]

Hi Bad-Ass

This is actually a well-built team so kudos on your part. I will only make minor tweaks to patch up your issues with several threats and help your overall synergy. Firstly, you can try going for Leaf Storm / Earth Power / Hidden Power Ice / Recover for your move selection on Celebi. Earth Power makes an excellent surprise move on overzealous Heatrans trying to score a free switch-in. You'd be surprised how many players would comfortably switch in their Heatran on a predicted Recovery. With Heatran out of the picture, expect your SD Scizor to sweep easier. The reason why I think Hidden Power Ice makes a better addition over Hidden Power Fire is because this will ultimately prevent Salamence from setting up a free Dragon Dance. Salamence is more potent in the ladder now that Latias is removed and you pretty much need to limit its set-up options. This would mean that your EV spread has to be 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe at a Timid nature to tie with Salamence.

Sticking to the main problem, you can patch up this issue all-together by adding Shuca Berry on Heatran. This ultimately prevents Salamence from having an easy Dragon Dance set up. Dragon Pulse will hurt it enough and hopefully OHKO it once Stealth Rock is down. Shuca Berry also comes in handy against Gliscor and sometimes Gyarados. You can also try Explosion over Earth Power -- you miss the ability to hit Heatran in exchange for killing Blissey. The likely scenario would be Heatran switching in and predicting the Earth Power is p. easy and going to someone like Gliscor, Starmie, or even Celebi should be a walk in the park. However, you would need to change your nature to Naive. This is just something you can consider to help out your team as a whole -- Celebi and Starmie pretty much maul everything with Blissey removed and Latias being banned. The only thing stopping them is Scarftar who has a difficult time switching into the aforementioned Pokes.

As for other options, you can try out Surf over Hydro Pump if you prefer to conserve your Starmie. A miss on someone like Infernape can really bite your ass back, or a miss on a CB Tyranitar, etc. Surf still packs quite a punch but its something to consider. You can also try out a spread of 188 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe on Scizor. This allows you to beat 16 Spe Taunting Skarmories. This allows you to set up Swords Dance in front of their face and dent their HP the following turn with Superpower. The extra Speed might come in handy when facing enemy Scizor too. overall gl.

 

[Abutorn]

Hey Bad-Ass,

A few suggestions, To begin Celebi's moveset needs a little tweaking I suggest you don't use Psychic and try out Earth Power to deal with common Heatrans that come in most of the time when they see Celebi with Life orb so Earth Power could be very crucial and add on the the surprise factor dearly. The other thing you might want to fix is Heatran, you might want to try Shuca Berry over Leftovers so you'll have the ability to live some ground attacks from numerous Pokemons like Gliscor, Metagross, Gyarados etc. The other thing you might want to change on Heatran is Dragon pulse, since Dragon pulse only puts your mark on Dragons which you don't really need to focus on while you can just add Explosion and focus more on quite a variety of Pokemon that seem to be annoying you and then you'll be able to hit it on the physical side so you won't have to deal with any kind of stalling for example Blissey, so do try out Explosion > Dragon Pulse and when you do that you currently have a Timid nature so you might want to change it to Hasty which is - Special Defense which isn't a big hurt for your team.

Offensivly what I see is a threat to your team is Dragon dancing Salamence so what you can do to fix this is change up Starmie maybe to put Choice scarf over Life orb so you'll be able to outspeed Salamence with 1 Dragon dance and hit it with a Ice beam it and it won't be such a big problem at all, so you might want to put that into place and since now you'll be having Choice scarf I recommend you change Recover into Trick so you'll be able to stop some other threats who are wanting to set up on you if they're able to. On Scizor what I recommend you to try is the EVs Franky recommended : 188 HP / 252 Atk / 60 as listed above it'll be able to outspeed 16 Spe Taunt Skarmories, which could be a problem.

Good luck with the team and hoped my rate will help!

 

[Doctor Who?]

'kay. I've lost my post three times now so I'll be making it quick. I've tested all the changes. In the OP is the current version of the team.

I've made the changes to Scizor (EV spread/Brick Break>>Superpower). Thanks for those guys.

I've opted for Choice Scarf Starmie as suggested by Abutorn. This kills two birds with one stone. The first was Shizzle's suggestion that I remove a Life Orb because residual damage eats me up. The second is stopping Salamence and Gyarados sweeps. Because of this I won't be running Hidden Power Ice on Celebi although I do appreciate the suggestion thanks Franky.

The Heatran changes were very helpful as I had problems picking a set. I will change the item to Shuca Berry thankyou to those that posted that change. Secondly I received two different changes to the moveset. However I will opt for Abutorn's change which was to switch Dragon Pulse for Explosion. I no longer need Dragon Pulse because I will simply Explode on all Salamence that switch-in, surviving the EQ with Shuca (unless they use Specsmence with Hydro Pump then I am screwed over by it). Note that I will not use Explosion until I am sure Scizor is 100% gone (although Gliscor does a decent job at handling him anyway).

Thankyou for all those that posted. Take no disrespect if I did not make your changes as every post helps me anyway.

If I get enough rates I will lengthen the set descriptions (just some motivation to post more rates for you guys!).

 

[Doctor Who?]

BUMP

 

[Doctor Who?]

BUMP

Updating the descriptions.