The Midnight Screening: An El Blecko + Stauffen Joint RMT

[Cyrrona]

​

Preview:​

Hello, Smogon! I was talking with good friend and fellow CAL admin Stauffen/Kiryoku the other night, and he mentioned wanting to build a novel stall team. After chuckling about the concept of a “novel stall team” for a while, I actually remembered an idea I had a few months ago: incorporating multiple screens into a stall team’s line of defense. The premise here was that common wallbreakers wouldn’t be able to secure the KOs they needed with the appropriate defensive screen in place, and would thus be incapable of derailing the stall. Stauffen immediately took to the idea, and we were soon at work on a new collaborative project!
We began the team building project by identifying the problems present in most standard stall teams. We determined they were beaten by:

- Hyper offensive teams that use pokemon with similar counters and similar attacks (ex: SD Lucario and SD Infernape)
- Offensive entry hazard abuse teams that efficiently block Rapid Spin
- The few and far between pokemon who beat standard stall by themselves (ex: CM + Refresh Latias)

For hyper offensive teams, the theory I previously explained about scattering Reflect / Light Screen throughout comes into play. The solution to defeating the entry hazard abuse teams is simple: we have to be able to Rapid Spin. Finally, the common stallbreakers are each individually handled by various members of the team—we’ll explain all of that later in the thread.
Before we jump into the thick of this, I want to take a minute to explain why we’re posting this RMT. I’m aware a few users consider posting stall teams to be a waste of time, as they view them all as near-identical. First, we think our stall team has enough distinguishing features to set it apart from the crowd: in addition to the seldom-seen screens we’ve woven into the lineup, we also use a few pokemon rarely seen on stall teams (namely Gliscor and Scizor). Another point, however, is that teams are posted so the creators can receive input and improve the team. Even if a stall team would be considered “generic” or “uninteresting” by some, nobody can deny the team builder their right to post the team and seek advice. So, to summarize, we are posting this stall RMT: 1) to improve the team based on input from all you raters, and 2) because we believe our team is somewhat of a break from the stall “norm,” and we think people might enjoy reading about it. Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way…

Enjoy the show!

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In a world much like ours, chaos is running rampant.
Rules are being cast aside, trampled upon...
Order and justice have long been forgotten...
Every day is a struggle for survival...
And hope seems like little more than a myth...
What happened?
A war of cataclysmic proportions is underway.
Cities have been burned.
Lives have been lost.
Countries have been ravaged.
One attack and the world is falling apart at the seams. The countdown to the end had begun.
However…
In the midst of the discord, in the world's most dire hour, 6 heroes rise.
...........................

The world needs time, and these noble six will do everything in their power to give it.
They must stall. They will stall. They will live. They will save.​

Will the heroes succeed? Can they buy enough time? What will become of humanity?
Don't fear--these questions will be answered in the premiere, and you're all invited! Sit back, hold on tight, and get ready for some competitive pokemon!

El Blecko and Stauffen

present...​

The heroes knew their time had come—waiting idly was no longer an option. Stalling had to be done, and it had to be done now. The heroes also knew that one of them would have to step into battle before the others. At first, not a soul volunteered. The air was thick with trepidation. Just as the Cleric was about to propose drawing straws, one of the six came forward.
“I’ll do it.”
......................

The Fearless Frontman
Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Jolly nature (+Speed, -Special Attack)​

• Earthquake
• Taunt
• U-turn
• Roost

The show begins and the curtains rise, revealing our lead to be Gliscor. Gliscor’s usefulness as a lead lies primarily in his ability to prevent set-up through the use of Taunt and to further this advantage by gaining early momentum with U-turn. His unique typing and stat distribution allow him to square off against many of the common leads without batting (pun intended!) an eye, and more often than not he’ll set us off on the right foot.

Gliscor is played very conservatively—we need to keep him in good health if we want to have any chance at stopping late-game Lucario and Substitute Calm Mind Jirachi, two pokemon that typically threaten stall teams. We’ll typically U-turn out if we don’t like the look of things, as losing Gliscor early on could mean losing the game. The inclusion of Stealth Rock elsewhere on the team frees up a moveslot and allows us to run both Taunt and U-turn, two moves that together make Gliscor one of the most potent stallbreakers in the metagame. Jolly is chosen to ensure we outspeed all variants of Lucario, and Sand Veil allows for some hax every now and then. (Additionally, we have no moves to hit anything with Intimidate that might switch in.) In addition to checking the threats mentioned above, Gliscor is also our usual answer to Tyranitar, a pokemon that could trouble us otherwise. Gliscor is a reliable early momentum-setter that’s capable of cracking opposing stall wide open and preventing dangerous threats from setting up, and as such, he’s a very important member of the team.​

The heroes knew the enemy would be advancing any minute… They looked out over the empty battlefield and realized they needed to set a trap. The shelled hero knew the fate of the planet rested on his ability to deploy hazards, and he waddled onto the barren battlefield brimming with confidence—he was ready to serve. Slowly, the one with the shell began to spin. And spin. And spin and spin, until he appeared to the other heroes to be nothing more than a whirring gray orb. It happened quickly, but if one were to closely examine the ground near the shelled one, one might find small spines littered across the land. Small, yes…but extremely potent. The hero had done his job.

......................

The Bold Barricade
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 116 HP/84 Atk/56 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)​

• Spikes
• Toxic Spikes
• Payback
• Rapid Spin

Forretress is the primary entry hazard dispenser, laying both Spikes and Toxic Spikes for our team. He also serves as our Rapid Spinner, clearing the field of any rocks, spikes, etc. that the opponent might have snuck in. We’re running both hazards here partly because of a lack of space and partly because Forretress is perfectly capable of setting both up. It’s vital to keep your side of the field free from entry hazards when playing stall, or else time will wear you down instead of your opponent. Because of this, we’ve opted to run Payback as our only attack to hit Rotom-A switching in to block our Rapid Spin attempts. This allows us to wear down/KO their spin blocker and hopefully clear the field after a few turns. Additionally, Payback allows us to check some variants of Latias, Sub Charge Beam Rotom and the new Nasty Plot Mismagius, the latter two being dangerous stallbreakers. Careful with Special Defense investment allows us to set up entry hazards on a wider variety of opponents in addition helping check the previously mentioned pokemon. Our specific EV spread also allows for a 3HKO on defensive Rotom, while we are never 3HKOd in return (provided they don't run Overheat). Forretress is the only pokemon on the team without solid recovery, though the Leftovers we run on him help compensate for this. While we'd love to run Shed Shell, we've found through testing that he needs the extra recovery Leftovers provides to stop those dangerous stall-breaking ghosts from sweeping through us. The Wish support on the team also helps extend his life and ensures he lays all of the spikes he needs to. Scizor can come in on many of the same attacks Forretress can, set up a Light Screen and U-turn out to Forretress for set-up behind the safety of a screen. Entry hazards form the core of stall, and as Forretress provides two-thirds of ours, he’s really a key player.

Looking across the hazard-filled battlefield, the heroes grew hopeful. Surely, very few opponents could safely cross. However, the six knew that some of their opponents would attack by air, bypassing the traps completely. They needed a line of defense above the clouds. One of the heroes was a natural healer, and joined the crew to remedy any status afflictions the party might suffer during the battle. She knew she could guard the sky. She knew this was her time.​

......................

The Courageous Cleric
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/108 SDef
Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)​

• Stealth Rock
• Seismic Toss
• Aromatherapy
• Softboiled

Blissey is a staple on heavy stall teams, and it’s easy to see why. She’s the finest special wall the fourth generation has to offer, effortlessly soaking up special attacks while simultaneously supporting the rest of the team. She’s a capable user of Stealth Rock because she’s provided more free turns than most other pokemon, so we assigned her that role instead of throwing it on Gliscor and spending a moveslot there. Seismic Toss is our only attack, and it was chosen largely because it’s a wonderfully consistent way of dealing damage. Aromatherapy allows Blissey to function as a cleric and rid the team of any nasty status afflictions they might have incurred. As Wish is represented on Vaporeon, we felt we could afford to run Aromatherapy here. Softboiled is for obvious healing. We’re running Bold Blissey because we’ve found much of the special defense Calm provides to be excessive, especially with the possibility of Light Screen support. Additionally, this EV spread nets us our highest OLRP. Blissey consistently puts a halt to many a special attacker’s crusade, making her an irreplaceable member of the team.

The heroes had selflessly put their lives at risk setting up lethal hazards, and the effort showed—the enemy would be hard-pressed to navigate the minefield they’d created. However, the heroes knew an ancient technique could clear the field instantly, undoing all of their hard work. They had to prevent this from happening. Enlisting the help of a spirit could counteract this skill…

......................

The Arduous Apparition
Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)​

• Thunderbolt
• Reflect
• Shadow Ball
• Rest

Every heavy stall team needs something to block opposing Rapid Spin, and Rotom-C was our choice. He was selected over the other ghosts because of his useful typing/ability, his solid stat distribution, and the fact that he counters Gyarados. Rotom-C was chosen over the other Rotom forms mostly to scare Swampert (who comfortably walls us and enjoys spamming Roar with Stealth Rock up), but also because he looks really really cool. Thunderbolt is the attack of choice to ensure the OHKO on the aforementioned Gyarados. Shadow Ball allows us additional coverage and prevents set-up from a couple notable threats. Rotom is running Rest for self-recovery. Should he find himself asleep at an inconvenient time, Blissey can always wake him up with Aromatherapy. Reflect is the first appearance of our Stall Screen Theory (the one the team is named after). To reiterate that theory, we believe that a stall team will be nearly impossible to break with the appropriate screen in place, as common stallbreakers won’t be able to deal the damage they need to KO key players. Reflect is the first of our two simple screens, and it serves nearly the same purpose Will-o-wisp does: guard Rotom from physical attackers. However, Reflect has a few notable advantages over the more frequently used Will-o-wisp:


-It shields the entire team from all physical attacks, instead of cutting the attack power of just the burned pokemon.

-It’s capable of saving us from CB Tyranitar. Because we’re running Toxic Spikes on our team, Tyranitar will usually be poisoned upon entering battle. This means Will-o-wisp would fail and afford us no protection from Pursuit.

-It doesn’t set off Heatran’s Flash Fire.​

The added defense resulting from our Stall Screen Theory combined with the benefits listed above makes Reflect the best choice here. Overall, Rotom has proven himself to be an invaluable team member by repeatedly blocking Rapid Spin and putting half of our Stall Screen Theory into play.​

The sextet was strong—little could shake the solid foundation the group was building. The team knew, however, that their friend time was a double-edged sword. The passage of history influences everyone involved, and the team would undoubtedly feel its effects before long. Healing was well and good, but transferring this health could sustain the six for even longer. They turned to the shaman and beckoned her to call upon the stars. With astral guidance, even time’s mighty blade could be dulled.

......................

The Resilient Rejuvenator
Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spd
Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)​

• Surf
• Wish
• Protect
• Toxic / HP Electric

Vaporeon fills a number of roles on this team. First and foremost, she acts as our Wish-passer, providing Forretress with recovery and allowing the rest of the team to switch comfortably into most attacks. Protect works with Wish to net Vaporeon pseudo-instant recovery and helps block Explosion attempts, while Surf is the obligatory STAB move for damaging things should the need arise. Our fourth move was the topic of considerable discussion. With Ice Beam, Hidden Power Electric and Roar also available, settling on a final move was no easy task. After viewing the team as a whole and playtesting, however, we found Toxic to be the most useful. With Stealth Rock on Blissey, we lack a way to poison things that hover above Toxic Spikes--Vaporeon can do that for us. It also ruins most walls along with any Calm Mind users lacking Rest/Refresh. Between Stealth Rock, smart switching and Bullet Punch, Salamence is covered reasonably well. With Rotom-C, Gyarados is adequately handled, and we just found the additional status damage to be more useful than phazing. Toxic is really our "panic button" for set-up threats with recovery that we can't wear down fast enough, although Hidden Power Electric has been tested for additional Gyarados insurance, and it is occasionally run over Toxic. The combination of Vaporeon and Blissey allows us to withstand an assault from Crocune—though the legendary beast can PP stall either of them individually, it cannot break through both. Vaporeon also has good passing chemistry with most of the team, allowing Wish to fall where it needs to a greater portion of the time. The EVs are fairly standard, allowing us to outrun most Skarmory and Metagross while retaining bulk. Vaporeon has been an incredible team player, passing Wishes and spreading status for the rest of the lineup to take advantage of while still providing the useful resistances bulky waters bring to teams.

The heroes had come far… They knew, however, that certain enemies threatened to shatter their defenses. They needed a patch. They needed another screen. They needed momentum, and they needed speed. They looked high and low…

…and found it all.

......................

The Steadfast Scout
Scizor (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP/252 Atk/12 SDef
IVs: 30 Speed
Adamant nature (+Attack, -Special Attack)​

• U-turn
• Bullet Punch
• Roost
• Light Screen

Rounding out our lineup is a utility Scizor Stauffen proposed. This Scizor can take a handful of special hits from Gengar, Latias and others and retaliate with U-turn and a surprisingly powerful Bullet Punch. He is the second piece in our Screen Stall Theory, supplying the lineup with Light Screen to shield the members from various special attacks. Shed Shell prevents our best Salamence check from being trapped by its common teammate Magnezone. Keeping Scizor alive and well is especially important when his target is one of the most dangerous stallbreakers of the fourth generation. In addition to letting us escape the magnet's clutches, Shed Shell allows us to bluff a Choice Band for much of the early game, adding a new layer of depth to many matches. We’re also running a 30 speed IV on Scizor to ensure we get the slower U-turn in mirror matchups. Scizor uses his unique palette of resistances to switch into and eliminate specific threats while also supporting the team through Light Screen and U-turn. He’s a consistent pokemon, and his priority is always appreciated (even on stall teams).

...........................

The team was prepared for all manner of assaults. Now, they could do nothing but wait.

In the distance, the Frontman spotted an army approaching. The heroes took their places. Their resolve would soon be tested.​

As suddenly as a storm blankets the sky, it began. Blows were exchanged, hit points were depleted, lines were crossed… The opponents raced in with wallbreakers, while the heroes retaliated with their hazards and status, using Wish and Aromatherapy to retain the upper hand. The action escalated and the opponents pressed forward, but the heroes held their ground. Desperate and pressed for time, the enemies made a final, frenzied rush at the heroes—the force of the impact shook the earth to its core. When the dust settled, however, six figures stood alone, surveying the results of a soon-to-be-legendary fight. Helping each other up, they stood in silence for a few minutes. Looking out over the charred battlefield, the Scout limped forward.​

He smiled faintly.​

“6-0.” ​

And so the premiere of The Midnight Screening draws to a close… I hope you all enjoyed reading this RMT as much as Stauffen and I enjoyed making it. ^_^ We tried to make this as epic and movie-like as possible, so I hope we succeeded in that regard. All that being said, we know the team isn’t perfect. Like any lineup, this team has a number of problems (see threat list)—that’s why we’ve come to you Smogon raters for advice! We’d love to hear your thoughts, so rate away!​

(Credit for the banner goes to CAL-Ciaran!)​

 

[Kir]

Threat List

Abomasnow: Toxic Spikes, Scizor. Hail teams in general are hindered by Toxic Spikes and Scizor.

Aerodactyl: almost always seen as a suicide lead- we U-turn with Gliscor and go to Scizor. Bullet Punch can ohko.

Azelf: against the suicide leads, Gliscor U-turn + Scizor Bullet Punch wins. Usually Azelf will Stealth Rock on the first turn, meaning Gliscor doesn’t take heavy damage. Nasty Plot variants presumably have Life Orb, allowing us to play to resistances until it is in the KO range of Bullet Punch (59.79% - 70.45%). Offensive Azelf is certainly an underrated threat, Stall Screen Theory (SST) helps us if we manage to get Light Screen up.

Blissey: Toxic Spikes, PP stalling, Gliscor Taunt, etc.

Breloom: the Spore isn’t a big deal given Aromatherapy on Blissey. Gliscor and Scizor do a decent job of checking him, though Breloom is annoying to every team in certain circumstances.

Bronzong: set-up bait for Forretress, the whole team could potentially beat him, Rotom can take the Explosion.

Celebi: often set-up bait for Forretress, if it has Hidden Power Fire it doesn’t OHKO; the same can be said for Scizor. Gliscor does a fine job here in most scenarios. Blissey can use this for a chance to Stealth Rock.

Cresselia: set-up fodder for Forretress, like many defensive pokemon are. U-turns and Toxic hinder her greatly.

Dragonite: Scizor Bullet Punch, Vaporeon Toxic, SST

Dugtrio: Dugtrio is a sucky pokemon.

Flygon: keep Rotom away from Outrage and set up Reflect, can sometimes be set up for Forretress, Scizor Bullet Punch gives a late game check to Flygon.

Forretress: Rotom comes in on the Rapid Spin attempts, how we react to Forretress really depends on the situation.

Gengar: SST, Scizor Bullet Punch, Forretress Payback, occasionally Blissey depending on the set.

Gliscor: Vaporeon, Scizor, SST

Gyarados: Rotom, Vaporeon in a pinch. He can certainly be a big threat to us with proper team support.

Heatran: it is pretty safe for us to put Vaporeon up against any Heatran, because if it has Toxic, Blissey can use Aromatherapy. Blissey and Gliscor both fare well against most Heatran. Rotom can take an Explosion.

Heracross: Gliscor is arguably his best counter (even without Aerial Ace), Rotom, Scizor, SST

Hippowdon: Toxic Spikes, Vaporeon, Gliscor

Infernape: Vaporeon for mixed attackers, Gliscor beats SD variants as long as they don’t have Flare Blitz (98% minimum :( ), SST and Toxic Spikes are essential. Scizor can do 29.01% - 34.47% with Bullet Punch, and with Close Combat factored in once, 44.03% - 51.88%. Overall, though, a very big threat but can usually be played around. Ideas?

Jirachi: this thing has so many viable sets its ridiculous. Rotom beats physical sets, but SubCM is just a pain. With enough Spikes down, Blissey can take it, and Gliscor / Scizor help, but definitely an issue.

Jolteon: Blissey, Gliscor will often work against SpecsJolt, Scizor does a surprising amount with Bullet Punch (35.79% - 42.44%).

Kingdra: Rotom with Reflect and Thunderbolt fairs decently, if he doesn’t have Substitute then Vaporeon does well. Rain Dance variants are usually beaten by Vaporeon’s Wish + Protect, especially if Toxic Spikes are down. Kingdra could be a big threat in certain situations.

Latias: Between Scizor, Forretress, and Blissey, she shouldn’t be a problem. Vaporeon’s Toxic can be used as a last resort if need be.

Lucario: Gliscor. If he’s down, play to resistances until he’s in the range that Scizor can take him out (30.96% - 36.30%, or 46.26% - 54.45% after a Close Combat).

Machamp: possibly the most annoying pokemon to face in OU regardless of the team, but especially in stall. Gliscor does well, Rotom if Machamp doesn’t have Payback or if he can manage to get Reflect up.

Magnezone: Scizor can surive Hidden Power Fire if Light Screen is up and escape with U-turn. Gliscor, Blissey, and Rotom all do well, but he is undeniably a big threat that can potentially trap and kill two of our pokemon. “Magnemence” or “Salazone” is certainly dangerous. We are currently of the mindset that Scizor and Forretress’ items are too important to replace with Shed Shell. Ideas?

Mamoswine: Rotom Reflect, Vaporeon, Scizor.

Metagross: Rotom, Vaporeon, Scizor, Gliscor, SST

Porygon-Z: Blissey, Forretress, Rotom, and Scizor all handle the Scarf sets. If it has Nasty Plot, then Scizor works well.

Raikou: Blissey. If she’s down, and he has Hidden Power Ice, we could be in big trouble.

Rhyperior: Gliscor, Vaporeon, Scizor to an extent, SST.

Rotom-A: Forretress’ Payback helps break the ResTalkers and check the SubCharge sets (one of the main reason we like Leftovers Forretress).

Salamence: Scizor’s Bullet Punch deals 47.13% - 55.59% (obviously without Intimidate because Salamence usually won’t switch in on Scizor), so combine that with Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage, we have a solid check that most stall teams don’t. With Magnezone support though, this is really devastating. Ideas?

Scizor: Rotom, SST, Vaporeon, and Gliscor to an extent.

Skarmory: Spin away his Spikes, Gliscor Taunt, Rotom, etc. Not a problem.

Snorlax: Gliscor Taunt (with Toxic Spikes, possibly), but could be a problem.

Starmie: Blissey for offensive variants, and Rotom for defensive spinners. The offensive spinners are just a pain for stall to face, though...

Suicune: Vaporeon + Blissey means it can’t PP stall us out. Rapid Spin gets rid of the Toxic Spikes that are usually paired with him.

Swampert: Vaporeon, Toxic Spikes, Toxic + Gliscor Taunt beats last pokemon Cursers.

Togekiss: Rotom, Scizor.

Tyranitar: Gliscor, Scizor, and Vaporeon to an extent. SST.

Zapdos: Blissey, Rotom. SubRoost is annoying to beat, but it can be done.


Rate away!

 

[Ciaran]

I don't see any spacing problems in the OP, really...but that's just me, lol.


Anyway since Magnezone is the catalyst for almost every sweep against you, and since you rely on Scizor for checking many major threats I suggest you change the Iron Plate on Scizor to Shed Shell. You say it's necessary in the description, but when I figure it generously it seems evident that you still easily take out Mence, Jolteon, and Ape, the main three that you point out wanting the Iron Plate for.

Mence:
According to your calcs, with the Iron Plate Scizor does 47.13% - 55.59% to Mence. So remove the 20% that Iron Plate adds. I'll remove 10% (20% of 50) just to be extra generous. 37.13% 2HKOs with SR, and that's the minimum. So basically if you take the actual calc (~39%), you still have the same ability to revenge Mence with Rocks up. And you should have Rocks up.

Jolteon:
Jolteon's not getting through you any time soon with Toxic Spikes, Blissey, and Gliscor (assuming no HP [Ice]) so 20% more damage doesn't seem necessary to me.

Infernape:
Here is what I think is the real biggest reason to have the Iron Plate. But, like with Mence, it seems a bit unneeded to me given Toxic Spikes, SR, Spikes, LO recoil, and, if necessary, a predicted CC into Gliscor to get the Defense drop. Ape doesn't last long if you're playing right, especially is you have Screens up. SD Ape is a problem, but with Reflect Vaporeon can still counter it pretty effectively.

Given that these three threaten you infinitely more without Scizor (well, Ape and Mence do), makes me wonder why you would risk losing Scizor to Magnezone, a common partner to one of them, for only slightly more damage that is somewhat un-needed overall.

Good luck with this amazing team! :D

 

[Scofield]

GREAT presentation.

1. Have you considered hp electric on vappy to counter gyarados? The only mon I can think you'll want to toxic is zapdos and well, you're not staying on on him anyways. I can't see you beating gyarados once rotom is at about 50% health or asleep...You already have scizor for latias, etc.

2. For scizor, once LO recoil and rocks is factored in, I think you can beat mence just fine...so have you considered shed shell, or is zone not that much of a pain? i'd also prefer more spc def as that scizor just doesn't take surfs from latias too well. Although roost and screen might alleviate this enough?

3. Pain split. You don't have room on fort for it I guess, but have you considered it on rotom? I know you like a status absorber, but your team is hurt pretty badly by breloom if you don't have shadow ball. Loom loves tspikes and comes in easily on bliss, fort, and vappy. tbh, gliscor can't do much to it at all if it leech seeds on the switch (not to mention it gets in a sleep), if you roost and get hit with focus punch it will hurt and your only way of doing major damage to it is u turn, although I guess you can u-turn to scizor.

4. fort wants shed shell as well, it's even more important on stall as you can't lose a key part of your team like that.

 

[ARandomDude]

Nice team, nice presentation. Here are some concerns I have:

Forretress is doing way too much here. With Rapid Spinning, and 5 layers of spikes to set up, his task is rediculously hard. Magnezone will trap Forretress and kill with impunity. My recommendation would be to switch a few things around:
Forretress @ Shed Shell, SR/Spikes/TSpikes/Rest. Forretress gets much needed recovery here. You have a cleric so things shouldnt get too messy. With SR over Rapid Spin, you make sure Forretress actually does something productive every time he comes in.
Blissey with that 4th slot freed up, can use Toxic, Thunder Wave (my personal preferred other move), Ice Beam, Flamethower, you name it.
And now that Forretress has his own recovery, you can take out Vaporeon to get your spinner. My recommendation would be the reflect support starmie in the analysis: Starmie@Leftovers, 252 HP/240 Def/16 Spe Bold, Surf/Recover/Reflect/Rapid Spin. An alternate spread to run is 252 HP/212 Def/28 SpA/16 Spe, Modest, which can 3HKO 252/120+ Rotom-A after coming in on SR twice (Which means Starmie comes in, surfs to scout for Rotom, runs, comes in again, surfs again, and then can finish). And of course, the reflect somewhat nullifies the pursuit weakness.
And finally, since Starmie is your new reflector, Rotom can run another move, maybe Will-O-Wisp, Leaf Storm, or Toxic. Or you can have 2 reflectors, which Blissey really appreciates.

That's my 2 cents, gl with your team!

 

[Kir]

GREAT presentation.

1. Have you considered hp electric on vappy to counter gyarados? The only mon I can think you'll want to toxic is zapdos and well, you're not staying on on him anyways. I can't see you beating gyarados once rotom is at about 50% health or asleep...You already have scizor for latias, etc.

2. For scizor, once LO recoil and rocks is factored in, I think you can beat mence just fine...so have you considered shed shell, or is zone not that much of a pain? i'd also prefer more spc def as that scizor just doesn't take surfs from latias too well. Although roost and screen might alleviate this enough?

3. Pain split. You don't have room on fort for it I guess, but have you considered it on rotom? I know you like a status absorber, but your team is hurt pretty badly by breloom if you don't have shadow ball. Loom loves tspikes and comes in easily on bliss, fort, and vappy. tbh, gliscor can't do much to it at all if it leech seeds on the switch (not to mention it gets in a sleep), if you roost and get hit with focus punch it will hurt and your only way of doing major damage to it is u turn, although I guess you can u-turn to scizor.

4. fort wants shed shell as well, it's even more important on stall as you can't lose a key part of your team like that.

Hey, thanks for the rate! I haven't had a chance to talk with Blecko since we posted this, but personally, I like most and maybe all of your ideas.

As soon as I get a chance, I'll test Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Reflect / Pain Split on Rotom, HP Electric on Vaporeon, and Shed Shell on Scizor (I'm basically sold on this, because we lose to Salazone every time if he doesn't have it...it's kinda funny this was brought up in your post because of your Dark Passenger team). I'm still a tad unsure of Shed Shell on Forretress for a couple of reasons: Forretress needs leftovers to counter offensive ghosts imo and even if they have a Magnezone, it is very unlikely to OHKO with Hidden Power Fire so I'll still get a layer or two in...obviously not a good scenario, but I think this makes it managable. Thoughts?

Nice team, nice presentation. Here are some concerns I have:

Forretress is doing way too much here. With Rapid Spinning, and 5 layers of spikes to set up, his task is rediculously hard. Magnezone will trap Forretress and kill with impunity. My recommendation would be to switch a few things around:
Forretress @ Shed Shell, SR/Spikes/TSpikes/Rest. Forretress gets much needed recovery here. You have a cleric so things shouldnt get too messy. With SR over Rapid Spin, you make sure Forretress actually does something productive every time he comes in.
Blissey with that 4th slot freed up, can use Toxic, Thunder Wave (my personal preferred other move), Ice Beam, Flamethower, you name it.
And now that Forretress has his own recovery, you can take out Vaporeon to get your spinner. My recommendation would be the reflect support starmie in the analysis: Starmie@Leftovers, 252 HP/240 Def/16 Spe Bold, Surf/Recover/Reflect/Rapid Spin. An alternate spread to run is 252 HP/212 Def/28 SpA/16 Spe, Modest, which can 3HKO 252/120+ Rotom-A after coming in on SR twice (Which means Starmie comes in, surfs to scout for Rotom, runs, comes in again, surfs again, and then can finish). And of course, the reflect somewhat nullifies the pursuit weakness.
And finally, since Starmie is your new reflector, Rotom can run another move, maybe Will-O-Wisp, Leaf Storm, or Toxic. Or you can have 2 reflectors, which Blissey really appreciates.

That's my 2 cents, gl with your team!

I think Forre's task is harder with your version of the team tbh, and most importantly, it leaves us open to being swept by Sub + Charge Beam Rotom every time.

I'm open to testing Starmie over Vaporeon and Wish on Blissey, though (which gives Forre room for Pain Split or Earthquake?). However, I can't say that I think these changes will be better than what we have now.

Thanks for the rates!

PS- thanks again to Ciaran for the outstanding Midnight Screening banner!

 

[franky]

There isn't much to say, but first and foremost this is great presentation. Now on the team, Hidden Power Electric is probably the best option on Vaporeon to hit Gyarados. Taunt Gyarados is absolute trouble if you let it grab the DD. In theory it can DD on Scizor, go to Vaporeon, and Taunt you, then proceed to a second DD. Rotom won't enjoy +2 Waterfall, especially when its asleep it has to rely on Sleep Talk to hit it. Hidden Power Electric is a great move on Vaporeon over Toxic.

As for other options, I'd probably flex up the movesets for Rotom and make it Thunderbolt / Will-O-Wisp / Reflect / Rest. This is a nice way to cripple Tyranitar switch-ins, who are not affected by Toxic Spikes yet. This will soften up the Pursuit blow, assuming you have Reflect down as well. Will-O-Wisp also hits unsuspecting Scizor and Lucario. Basically Will-O-Wisp threatens alot of physical threats from having an 'easy' set up on Rotom. With Blissey's Aromatherapy, you could perform this 'Restherapy' combo so Sleep Talk is ommited.

Another thing you should look to use is Shed Shell on Foretress. Leftovers is useless with Magnezone around. Foretress is a vital member on your team and you can't let an opponent shake your core. Shed Shell is a no brainer. It won't go down soon because of your dual screen strategy. Other than that gl.

 

[TerradorXIV]

First off, (as if you haven't heard this already) AWESOME presentation. The only suggestion I have is to put Calm over Bold on Bliss, seeing as you gain very little durability with Bold vs. Calm. Think about it: Is there some important defensive mark that you reach with that extra few Def? Otherwise, a huge boost in SDef would like to say "Hi!". Everything else of note has already been mentioned.

 

[Cyrrona]

Okay, apparently the Edit button is determined to prevent me from accessing the OP...lol. I guess we'll just have to live with the lack of proper spacing for right now. Thanks for all the early rates and format compliments (and stars)!

Shed Shell on Forretress would certainly be nice, but he has a difficult time stopping threats like Sub Charge Beam Rotom and Mismagius without Leftovers. That's the main reason why we're hesitant to change his item.

As for Bold Blissey,

We’re running Bold Blissey because we’ve found much of the special defense Calm provides to be excessive, especially with the possibility of Light Screen support.

I don't really see what we'd specifically gain from switching to Calm... She can stop most special attackers even with the investment in Defense, and this way she also has some chance of taking a physical hit if we need her to. If there's something I'm missing, feel free to point it out.

At the moment, we're testing HP Electric on Vaporeon (I'll miss Toxic, but switching might be the best move), Shed Shell on Scizor and some different Rotom movesets, and for the most part, the results have been great. Glad to see all the comments--keep 'em coming!

 

[tobi10]

Rate

It is an honor to rate the team of two of my best friends online;Blecko and Kir.
This RMT is excellently presented,which makes it easier to rate. I will point some things I noticed that might improve your team; they are ordered from one to nine.

Here it goes!!

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This is one exception I am doing for you two.

1.)Since your Blissey has Aromatherapy, I think Rotom might use Will-o-Wisp or Shadow Ball in Sleep Talk´s place.

2.)I encourage the use of Roar on Vaporeon; with Spikes, Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, he can effectively abuse the move. Aside from that, it will prevent long stall wars vs. Suicune (which can be a trouble if he is the last Pokémon or is Subcune.) If you change it try it over Protect, since sometimes it is really predictable and might provide free switching and/or set up. This will give you an easier time vs. Agility Empoleon as well, as long as you have Spikes.
*On a side note, you lack a phazer, Baton Pass teams will be a real pain if gliscor ever goes down:D

3.)I hate Vaporeon´s spread, is it necessary to use 68 Speed evs?¿?
Metagross is set up bait for Forretress and Skarmory is "Not a problem." You might want to shift them to Special Attack or add more HP.

4.)Teams with two spin blockers are going to be a pain (IPL, and a lot of people copy his teams.) Obviously I don´t have any way to fix this, just for you to notice.

5.)I am sure there is a better spread for Scizor than that, I am sure he doesnt needs 252 Atk Adamant.
Like Ciaran explained, Salamence takes more than enough damage already,
at least 200 Attack evs and Iron Plate are needed to 2HKO Salamence with Stealth Rock. This will give you more space for Special Def / Defense, your call.

6.) I know you two will hate and reject this but, isn´t Jirachi better at Scizor´s job?
He is bulkier, can use Wish, Light Screen, T-wave Iron Head, U-turn,Fire Punch and even Ice Punch.
That will give you an extra Lucario check.

Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
Jolly, Serene Grace
252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Speed
Light Screen
Iron Head
Fire Punch / Thunder Wave
Wish / Ice Punch

With this spread, you take (48.27% - 57.18%) from a boosted Outrage and (53.96% - 63.61%) from a boosted EQ, this gives you a solid Tyranitar and Salamence counter. Fire Blast deals (61.39% - 72.28%) from the standard DD Salamence,while you outspeed and cripple it with ThunderWave, Iron Head or Ice Punch.

7.)Give Gliscor one extra Speed EV to outspeed 176 Jirachi and other Gliscor with your current spread.

8.)Awesome team, congrats, sorry if my rates weren,t good,but I tried my best; good luck with the team!!

9.)This is off topic but, it seems Blecko did all the job lol.

At least consider my changes, I hope you get success with this team.

 

[Kir]

Heya, Legend.

The Jirachi idea is interesting, but he doesn't do as well vs Latias, which is pretty important. Also, I think Vaporeon is needing Hidden Power Electric for reasons other people have mentioned, but I see what you mean on the EV spread. The extra bulk would certainly help against Gyarados and the like. Regarding Scizor's EVs, since he now has Shed Shell, I think max attack is going to be essential.

It might look like Blecko did all the work, but I helped in the OP, too, lol. Probably a 65/35 split :)

 

[tobi10]

It’s worth noting that with Light Screen up, Scarf Magnezone’s HP Fire does not KO Scizor—it does around 60%, I believe—and we can simply U-turn out of the magnet’s clutches and heal up later.

Is it neccessary to use Shed Shell?
Actually, you are able to outstall Magnezone as long as you are full health.
This can be achieved by using Roost instead of U-turn twice, after two Roost, you use U-turn.

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The Jirachi idea is interesting, but he doesn't do as well vs Latias, which is pretty important.

A boosted Surf from LO Latias vs Jirachi (the strongest attack Latias has vs Jirachi):(44.31% - 52.23%)

Choice Specs Latias´Surf vs Jirachi : (34.16% - 40.35%)

Choice Specs Latias´ Draco Meteor: (37.87% - 44.55%)

The worst problem is offensive Calm Mind offensive variations of her, but that can be dealt by Blissey. You can use enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Lucario as well, adding the rest to your Special Defense.

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Regarding Scizor's EVs, since he now has Shed Shell, I think max attack is going to be essential.

Magnezone´s Hidden Power Fire vs Scizor after Light Screen:(53.64% - 64.14%)
After a second glance, if you want to beat Zone (to some extent) you need to use Light Screen on the switch-in; Shed Shell should be the best option, sorry :P

Again, this team´s greatness relies on its originality, 5 / 5 ; I hope I´d helped.

**Final Edit: lol @ Vaporeon dodging an Explosion and Blissey summoning thunders

 

[Astrith01]

I agree with Legend, where, as, Shed Shell is needed more on Forry, not Scizor, however, this is a cool team and all, but, there is not really a point that I can find to it, you have no Phazers, and all of you member are supporting eachother to be able to get Screens and Hazards up, no sweeper, or phazers, how do you plan on beating the other team?