Bluwing, sry CSB but I love Specs Empoleon :(.
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The Next Best Thing... [V2]: Set Discussion
- Thread starter Bouff
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I'm going to vote for Meru, mainly because in my eyes it's the most viable.
LightningLuxray, I always found Yawn to be a cool and generally underrated move for real
Bluwing
LightningLuxray
Wow, CoolStoryBrobat
LightningLuxray
Ok, so with that, our winner is the choking CoolStoryBrobat!
Our next suspect is...
Metagross
Oh, and one more thing: From now on, calcs or replays will be required for all submissions. I'm tired of this thread becoming Theorymon central, I want some hard evidence. Also, you can't nom a set with a replay until that replay has been added to your post.
I will edit the OP later.
EDIT: The op is being a glitchy piece of shit and i have tried getting it to work for hours on end but fuck it, I'll just do it later .-------------.
Our next suspect is...
Metagross
I will edit the OP later.
EDIT: The op is being a glitchy piece of shit and i have tried getting it to work for hours on end but fuck it, I'll just do it later .-------------.
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Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 128 Spd / 252 Atk / 128 HP
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
This isn't extremely out of the box, but I haven't seen anyone use PuP on meta against me and it's not on the analysis atm so...
Okay so basically, this is a metagross that regular counters don't work against. Come in on something like roserade, crobat, florges, whatever, use PuP and now the conventional walls can't stop you as they normally would:
+1 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (this is basically 100% 2HKO chance when you take into account PuP damage)
+1 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
etc.
Speed evs are to outpace 4 speed cune because why give it more chances to scald burn you if you don't have to? You'll also outpace the occasional nidoqueen / blastoise which is always nice.
Anyway, yeah, nothing super niche but when your opponent has stuff like florges that gives metagross a free turn to PuP it can really wreck some teams.
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 128 Spd / 252 Atk / 128 HP
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
This isn't extremely out of the box, but I haven't seen anyone use PuP on meta against me and it's not on the analysis atm so...
Okay so basically, this is a metagross that regular counters don't work against. Come in on something like roserade, crobat, florges, whatever, use PuP and now the conventional walls can't stop you as they normally would:
+1 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (this is basically 100% 2HKO chance when you take into account PuP damage)
+1 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
etc.
Speed evs are to outpace 4 speed cune because why give it more chances to scald burn you if you don't have to? You'll also outpace the occasional nidoqueen / blastoise which is always nice.
Anyway, yeah, nothing super niche but when your opponent has stuff like florges that gives metagross a free turn to PuP it can really wreck some teams.
Metagross @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe (148 for megamane note: when megamane goes up, aero will run adamant, so less speed will be needed)
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch / Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Earthquake
Pretty much the only mon in uu that is capable of using wp due to nice bulk, amazing attack, a way of boosting speed and common weak, weaknesses. You out speed the entire unboosted metagame. It also has a bit of a 4mms, agility and meteor mash are essential, thunder punch allows it to hit bulky waters, eq hits other steel types and zen headbutt gives you a secondary STAB and hits chesnaught and bulky poisons.
Without eq you have perfect neutral, but stuff like maggron and metagross wall you
Zen headbutt: Chsnaught and rotom-h wall you
Thunder punch: perfect neutral but suicune and slowbro wall you.
Calcs
Metagross should be left till end game where your opps pokes are weakened to the point meta can sweep
(Max speed adamant lets it outs peed base 95 scarfers, whilst jolly, lets it outs peed base 109 scarfers.)
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe (148 for megamane note: when megamane goes up, aero will run adamant, so less speed will be needed)
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Thunder Punch / Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Earthquake
Pretty much the only mon in uu that is capable of using wp due to nice bulk, amazing attack, a way of boosting speed and common weak, weaknesses. You out speed the entire unboosted metagame. It also has a bit of a 4mms, agility and meteor mash are essential, thunder punch allows it to hit bulky waters, eq hits other steel types and zen headbutt gives you a secondary STAB and hits chesnaught and bulky poisons.
Without eq you have perfect neutral, but stuff like maggron and metagross wall you
Zen headbutt: Chsnaught and rotom-h wall you
Thunder punch: perfect neutral but suicune and slowbro wall you.
Calcs
metagross vs:
2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 248-294 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 242-286 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 316-372 (87.2 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 372-438 (97.8 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 177-208 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 283-334 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 546-644 (146.7 - 173.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (wow)
vs metagross
4 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 152-180 (47.3 - 56%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 80 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 172-204 (53.5 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 270-320 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Forretress Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 106-126 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 278-330 (86.6 - 102.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
As you can see meta lives most se hits from bulky walls, be careful of knock off as it doesnt activate your boost
2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 248-294 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 242-286 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 316-372 (87.2 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 372-438 (97.8 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 177-208 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 283-334 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 546-644 (146.7 - 173.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (wow)
vs metagross
4 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 152-180 (47.3 - 56%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Slowbro Fire Blast vs. 80 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 172-204 (53.5 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 270-320 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Forretress Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 106-126 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 80 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 278-330 (86.6 - 102.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
As you can see meta lives most se hits from bulky walls, be careful of knock off as it doesnt activate your boost
(Max speed adamant lets it outs peed base 95 scarfers, whilst jolly, lets it outs peed base 109 scarfers.)
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what is this gen4? (Metagross) @ Light Clay
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion
Dual screens lead explosion metagross. It sets up a screen, maybe some rocks, then explodes to let you smash pass your way to victory. Its great bulk means you can set up screens multiple times if you get rekt in the lead matchup.
Plus noone expects dual screen metagross (unless you use that nickname don't use that nickname) so they bring in their bulky water to counter it and you set up screens in their face before exploding.
Here I have a replay of it setting up reflect twice in a match which, combined with a memento from whimsi, lets my gorebyss set up subs on a victini locked into fusion bolt. Admittedly he wasn't running bolt strike for basically no good reason but I could have still set up subs on that cause fusion bolt was doing like 15%.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-126193341
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion
Dual screens lead explosion metagross. It sets up a screen, maybe some rocks, then explodes to let you smash pass your way to victory. Its great bulk means you can set up screens multiple times if you get rekt in the lead matchup.
Plus noone expects dual screen metagross (unless you use that nickname don't use that nickname) so they bring in their bulky water to counter it and you set up screens in their face before exploding.
Here I have a replay of it setting up reflect twice in a match which, combined with a memento from whimsi, lets my gorebyss set up subs on a victini locked into fusion bolt. Admittedly he wasn't running bolt strike for basically no good reason but I could have still set up subs on that cause fusion bolt was doing like 15%.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-126193341
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Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Thunder Punch
- Earthquake
Basically a Choice Band Metagross. This thing hits like a truck with max Attack investment and a Choice Band. Meteor Mash is the obligatory STAB move, dealing heavy damage to whatever doesn't resist it. Bullet Punch is an awesome STAB priority move that lets you pick off threats late game. Zen Headbutt vs Thunder Punch is purely up to personal preference. Zen Headbutt is another STAB move and can help take care of Fighting- and Poison-types, while Thunder Punch lets you deal more damage to bulky Water-types. Earthquake is a great coverage move that lets you hit Electric- and Steel-types for super effective damage. This set is capable of dealing serious damage to some of the most common Pokemon in UU. The EVs are for maximum attacking power, the Speed EVs are to outspeed 128 Speed Nidoqueen, and the rest is invested into bulk.
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 680-804 (188.8 - 223.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 498-588 (141 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 230-272 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 171-202 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (with 1 spike its 95.7)
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 354-416 (92.4 - 108.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 168-198 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 188-222 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 498-588 (141 - 166.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 230-272 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 171-202 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (with 1 spike its 95.7)
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 354-416 (92.4 - 108.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 168-198 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'll think of more calcs later, but I hope you like this!!
In the spirit of innovation
WILL EDIT IN A FEW MINUTES WITH PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE
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Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 220 Atk / 160 SpA / 128 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Fire
I posted this in the analysis, but I've never seen anyone else use it, and it's a cool wallbreaker that don't take no shit.
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 205-242 (52 - 61.4%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 187-221 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 369-437 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 478-567 (121.3 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 380-452 (107.3 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 317-374 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 330-390 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 196-231 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 211-250 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 437-515 (121.3 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 153-183 (40.9 - 48.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not much more to say, with good prediction you can dismantle a lot of defensive cores. Unfortunately standard defensive Mew outspeeds, but you can't win them all.
Edit: Oh yeah, EVs. Speed outruns Suicune with the 30 Spe IV from HP Fire, Special Attack EVs 2HKOes Suicune after Stealth Rock, rest goes into Attack.
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Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 220 Atk / 160 SpA / 128 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Fire
I posted this in the analysis, but I've never seen anyone else use it, and it's a cool wallbreaker that don't take no shit.
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 205-242 (52 - 61.4%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 187-221 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert: 369-437 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 478-567 (121.3 - 143.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 380-452 (107.3 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 317-374 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 330-390 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Life Orb Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 226-268 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Umbreon: 196-231 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mew: 211-250 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 437-515 (121.3 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
220+ Atk Life Orb Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 153-183 (40.9 - 48.9%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not much more to say, with good prediction you can dismantle a lot of defensive cores. Unfortunately standard defensive Mew outspeeds, but you can't win them all.
Curse you, man. I was finna use this exact set almost, however with Bullet Punch or Explosion over HP Fire and a spread of 188 Atk / 196 SpA / 124 Spe with Naughty like you have. My idea was to outrun CroCune and be able to 2HKO it with Grass Knot.
edit: Only I was trying to get replays so I didn't post it right away
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