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The Next Best Thing... [V2]: Set Discussion

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Kitten Milk said:
yh as the person who wrote the infernape analysis, np is the first set listed (with close combat!) this might have been allowed three months ago when np ape actually was the next best thing, but not anymore =3

EDIT: this goes for in general when you're nomming sets - check the analysis before hand. If it's the same or very similar to one of the listed sets, you can't do it. OO is absolutely free rein, though.
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So let me just make sure I'm ok here. My mixed set is fine, right? Mixed is totally standard, but Work Up sees little use, if any, and is actually better than mixed Nasty Plot, imo. It is much harder to wall, given that +1 LO Close Combat rips through most of the tier, and +1 LO Fire Blast roasts almost everything that can stomach a CC. It functions similarly to NP, but I'll continue to use WU after messing around with it for this thread. The set's power really surprised me.
 
Well if we're doing it that way, isn't kokoloko's set straight out of the OU analysis?

I think the problem is that Infernape is just too well-explored, being in its third generation of prominence in high tiers with no real change in its movepool over the last 8 years
 
canasian said:
Well if we're doing it that way, isn't kokoloko's set straight out of the OU analysis?

I think the problem is that Infernape is just too well-explored, being in its third generation of prominence in high tiers with no real change in its movepool over the last 8 years
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His set doesn't exist on the analysis page, primarily in older generations Infernape was used primarily as either some sort of Choice user/Mix Attacker/Set up sweeper/Stealth rock setter not a stall breaker (since for one WoW had bad accuracy in the previous gens and with the OU environment that tended to be more fatal for such a frail mon). Technically, this is also the challenge of these threads, to be creative and explore the unknown. While it is true Infernape has had prominence in the previous gens this is the first time he finds himself in UU which is an entirely different metagame, taking into account the new additions and removing certain impediments.
 
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http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/infernape-revamp-qc-2-3.3509679/

Physically Defensive
########
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Will-o-Wisp
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Taunt
ability: Blaze
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 212 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def / 40 Spe

Moves
========
Will-O-Wisp let’s you burn Pokemon such as Bisharp, Mega Scizor, Mega Gyarados, Azumarill and cripple them. Close Combat is a useful STAB move that allows you to beat Heatran. Slack Off is for longevity, and Taunt prevents Pokemon such as Mew and Mega Venusaur to use status moves or recover HP.

Set Details
========
Maximum defense EV’s and an Impish nature let’s it wall Bisharp and Mega Scizor. 212 HP let’s you take maximum recovery from Leftovers and can also allow Infernape to take an Aqua Jet from an Assault Vest Azumarill, allowing Infernape to burn it and severely crippling it for the rest of the match. The remaining 40 speed let’s you outspeed Adamant 252 speed Gyarados.
 
alright, winner of this round is kokoloko (again)

Next victim is..

547.png

Whimsicott
​
Will try to update op later tonight / tomorrow.
 
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Hurricane/Shadow Ball
- Encore


So, first question you may ask is why use encore on an infiltrator set? Well, because this allows whims to check every CM user in the entire tier. Base 116 is no joke (beats even cm raikou), and neutral Life Orb hurts enough to count:

Crocune (assuming Encore Locked):
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 198-237 (49 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 133-159 (32.9 - 39.3%) -- 10.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Random Threats in Tier:
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Mega Blastoise: 182-218 (50.2 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 294-346 (100.3 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 382-452 (128.6 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Checks/Counters
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Amoonguss: 203-239 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 177-208 (67.8 - 79.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I could go on longer, but I think the point is this: This whimsicott is more than just a gimmick because, with the combination of Infiltrator and Encore, it centres itself as an anti-meta threat against many, many mons.
 
I lost to a team using this a long time ago...Put up a video about it too but I'm not gonna promote it here:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll / Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature (Naive / Rash if running Knock Off)
- Giga Drain / Solar Beam
- Moonblast
- Psychic / Knock Off / Hidden Power Ground
- Growth

Offensive LO Whimsicott's really become a thing as of late, but only those with exceptional cojones will take it a step further by using it on a Sun team, hence the slashes of Solar Beam, Chlorophyll, and a Modest Nature, all the preferred options for it if you choose to use it on a Sun Team. Of course if you are not about that life you can use Prankster with Growth since it's still fast enough to function as a generally-decent cleaner. Psychic messes up Crobat and other Poison-type friends, while Knock Off can put down Chandelure and the currently-being-tested Victini, especially if you've netted a boost from Growth. HP Ground can pick off Fire-types an weakened Steel-types but it's really just there for coverage if nothing else. If you have Sun up, Growth gives a +2 to both Attack and Special Attack, which is where the potency really kicks in. Of course this set still struggles with Steel-types, but if you're using a Sun team (or any team in general really) that has no way to beat down most of the Steel-types in UU, then that's not so much the fault of this set as it is poor Teambuilding.

+2 0 Atk Life Orb Whimsicott Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 263-309 (77.1 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Life Orb Whimsicott Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 198-234 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 0 Atk Life Orb Whimsicott Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 213-252 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Life Orb Whimsicott Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 283-335 (108.4 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 218-257 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 322-382 (86.3 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 174-205 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 260-307 (100.3 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Psychic vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Roserade: 252-299 (77.7 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
uhh yeah this is better:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Memento
- Tailwind


the idea is to have an offensive check to dragons that can also support the team. New Breed used this set against me in the uu open and it won him the match, so yeah its pretty good. modest whims is still faster than rash raikou, jolly jirachi, and timid hydreigon.
 
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252
Speed
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Tri Attack I also think 9+10 is 21
- Nature Power
- U-Turn/Memento

OK so Tri Attack Nature Power Whim is really awesome, it can revenge kill a lot of weakened scarfers and Set up Sweepers, and while it won't OHKO them it just cleans well and you basically can't outspeed it except for stuff like E-speed Luke (who resists anyway so), just some calcs on set up sweepers and Scarfers to show merit it has at revenging. Also run Memento if you want in last slot, doesn't matter.

On my phone, computer broken (sorry showdown frens) can't do calcs and am lazy so it does around 50% to 55% on Shao and Absol, 75 to 90 on Cloyster, (kills if -1) 45 to 50 on Haxorus, so it has some decent power. Also just shreks anything under 25% trying to kill you when your low on HP and you surprise them :)
 
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Sage of the 6 said:
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252
Speed
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Tri Attack
- U-Turn/Memento

OK so Tri Attack Whim is really awesome, it can revenge kill a lot of weakened scarfers and Set up Sweepers, and while it won't OHKO them it just cleans well and you basically can't outspeed it except for stuff like E-speed Luke (who resists anyway so), just some calcs on set up sweepers and Scarfers to show merit it has at revenging. Also run Memento if you want in last slot, doesn't matter.

On my phone, computer broken (sorry showdown frens) can't do calcs and am lazy so it does around 50% to 55% on Shao and Absol, 75 to 90 on Cloyster, (kills if -1) 45 to 50 on Haxorus, so it has some decent power. Also just shreks anything under 25% trying to kill you when your low on HP and you surprise them :)
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Um jw do you mean Nature Power? Nature Power turns into Tri Attack iirc, and it gets priority from Prankster.
 
Well Shit. Thanks Luxray, I kinda got caught up in the fact that it turns into priority Tri Attack i forgot the actual move was Nature Power. Will edit now, thanks fren.
 
kokoloko said:
uhh yeah this is better:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Memento
- Tailwind


the idea is to have an offensive check to dragons that can also support the team. New Breed used this set against me in the uu open and it won him the match, so yeah its pretty good. modest whims is still faster than rash raikou, jolly jirachi, and timid hydreigon.
Click to expand...

Ive been running the same set with U turn over Tailwind. Jirachi is almost always a safe switch in, which can be trapped by Dugtrio very easily or even a great pursuit user like CB Krookodile. Very effective set though!
 
Whimsicott @ Heat Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Memento

Sunny Day Whimsicott, specifically designed to set up Mega-Houndoom for a sweep. Fairly simple, with priority Taunt and Sunny Day to guarantee getting the sun up, and Memento to bring Houndoom in safely and give him a chance to mega-evolve, so he can start wrecking house with sun-boosted Solar Power fire attacks.

Moonblast is for Hydreigon, whose decent bulk and resistance to both of Houndoom's STABs make it a nuisance. Having a mixed or physical Chlorophyll sweeper like Sawsbuck or Victreebell to clean up after Doom and take on Blissey is also a good idea.
 
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Hogg i tried that set on a SD team. The only thing Id say to slash is Focus Sash over Heat rock. Itll guarantee 2 things...
1. Sunny Day is up
2. Your sweeper gets in safely thamks to Memento.

Also, if you want a good partner, Sleep Powder + 3 attacks Victreebel is very good. I ran Sleep powder, Weatherball, Power Whip and sludge Bomb. Add in hazards and it could tear through teams..
 
I was thinking Growth and Leaf Blade over Power Whip/Sleep Powder (mostly to avoid Power Whip's miss chance from prematurely ending your sweep... it still breaks through Blissey just fine after a Growth), but the same basic idea.

Dropping Heat Rock would be fine for just Houndoom, since Solar Power only gives you four turns of sweeping anyhow, but it does make it harder for a Chlorophyll sweeper to clean up after Doom.
 
Sage of the 6

Priority Tri-Attack is no Gale Wings Brave Bird but it's still pretty sweet.
 
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