The Power Within

littlelucario said:
Fire Blast Lati@s can decimate unprepared teams.
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Fire Blast? Go hard and Blue Flare more like but yea, this was one of the things I first thought of, or Earth Power to stop even Heatran trying to check you

Landorus with STAB Flying moves sounds horrific, and something every team will need to be able to answer. I can see this being an extremely offensive metagame as everything will be running moves to get around things that would normally wall them, meaning said walls are obsolete.

I think having a way to deal with Sleep will be essential due to all the spore flying around too, but then again it'll be impossible to predict where it's coming from because everything can now viably run it.
 
So now i can give my rockhead pterodactyl brave bird?
and any dragon dancer/agility sweeper(metagross) shift gear?
how about pigeot every move with no accuracy and tons of power.

so any ways which priority moves will we see every where?
probably prankster spore
sucker punch/diamond storm mega dance tyranitar sounds fun
skill link flinch water shuriken 40 percent flinch is preaty good, but your chance of flinchin twice in a row is relativly low roughly .16 and given how much priority will be running around you'll probably be packing something of your own.
mach punch. not many good fighting types to abuse stab terikon might be fun though.
aquajet/water shuriken/sucker punch meet mega-swampert
vacume wave a special fighting type or any thing that needs special priority(un sabed it won't hit hard though)
bullet punch, anti fairy priority of choice.
ice shard on things that want to kill any of the flying/ground/dragon/grass/ types flying around right now
shadow sneak would be good on things that realy don't like ghosts, i feal like there are better options unless you want to go shadow sneak, mach punch for unresisted coverage.
sucker punch grenija realy that is going to be a beast to kill

other notes breloom gets technition stab storm throw so thats 60*1.5*1.5*1.5=202.5Bp except on mega bro
steam eruption rotom
crabhammer barbacle
the various flying/dragons get dragonascent/bravebird
uturn/voltswitch mega tile
wobafett- enough said
various things abuse reliable recovery
dracometor for you and you, not you you get over heat, and you get leaf storm.
mega drill gets some better coverage options(mega horn or thousand arrows, a bunch of things realy)
you know those guys with rock head give something worth whle to use it with like brave bird, or volt tackle/light of ruin/headsmash/wood hammer
every thing that ever dreamed of powerfull stab(out side of normal/fairy) has it
magnazone has fire blast
steam eruption on every thing that uses scald/hydropump elsewhere(unless you need more pp which may actualy be a consern for stall)
how about charizard y with blue flare or vcreate
or charizard x with super efective steel/poison for fairies
u turn on all the things
volt switch on evry thing thing else
greninja what have you done greninja with what ever additional coverage it wants( ground is the best) it can hit 583 pokemon super efectivly and the rest neutraly with ice/dark/fighting/ground
skill swap slaking/regigigas/archeops.
and boosting
all for now.
 
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speaking of which megagross gets heavy slam now with stab and tough claws factored in that's a 240BP move with no drawback
 
302.png

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 Spe (HP Ice)
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play

Boosts? What boosts? (could substitute Knock Off for Foul Play or use +SpDef nature)
302.png

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 Spe (HP Psychic)
- Heart Swap
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off
Also,
195.png

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe (HP Fighting)
- Scald
- Circle Throw
- Seismic Toss
- Recover

Quagsire does have legal access to Seismic Toss, but since it is a 3rd gen tutor move, it's incompatible with Unaware. In this metagame, however, with the right IVs, it can use Seismic Toss to deal consistent damage to non-Ghosts and Circle Throw to reset boosts. It can also use Scald to burn things and Recover to heal off damage. (Unfortunately, Ghost-type sweepers might be a problem.)

I will also mention Clefable, but it's weak to Gear Grind and thus doesn't fare well against Shift Gear sweepers.


Just a bit of contribution against the boosting meta.

EDIT: Gosh dang, I completely forgot about Topsy-Turvy. Thanks for pointing it out, next two posts below me.
 
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Don't forget about HP Dark variants that can Topsy-Turvy stat boosts, while also getting Prankster Dark Void and Parting Shot its like we're playing STABmons!
 
Topsy Turvy > Haze

in pretty much all scenarios.

In fact, Dark is great on Sableye because it gets Topsy Turvy, Dark Void and Parting Shot. Yes, all of them with Priority.
 
Largely the same as a post I made for Typemons, but edited to account for the fact that you get choices for individual Pokemon, which helps some types a lot. But not Dragon.

Overshadowed. Dragon Dance is cool, but Steel provides Shift Gear. Draco Meteor is big, but Psychic provides the stronger Psycho Boost -and Mega Ampharos is the only Pokemon that gets STAB on Draco Meteor without already getting Draco Meteor. Dragon Tail is nifty, but Fighting provides Circle Throw.

Seriously, it's notables are

-Dragon Dance

-Draco Meteor

-Dragon Tail

all of which can be outperformed elsewhere. Basically, you might give Ampharos Dragon IVs for Draco Meteor, maybe, or give Dragon Tail to something because frickin' Ghosts. That's about it.

Supreme offense. It also has some actual utility. Notables include

-Sacred Fire. Almost as powerful as Earthquake with a 50% chance to Burn. A way to fairly reliably burn Magic Bouncers in particular, though they trend towards Special offense. Also frees you from Freeze, I guess. If you have Serene Grace, it's a more reliably way to Burn targets than Will O Wisp!

-Flame Charge. Physical attack that raises Speed in the process. It's no Quiver Dance or Shift Gear, but it can be nice.

-Flare Blitz. Keep in mind Sheer Force can cancel out its small chance to Burn the target in exchange for being a spammable 150~ BP move. You can't say that about the other 120 BP recoil attacks.

-Heat Crash. Spammable no disadvantage up to 120 BP move. Can be good for really, really heavy Pokemon. Would be fantastic for Groudon.

-V-Create. Strongest move in the game, bar suicide moves. Very abusable with Contrary too!

-Blue Flare. Straight upgrade over Fire Blast.

-Eruption. 150 BP at full health is great for fast sweepers.

-Fiery Dance. Only 80 BP, but it has a 50% chance of raising your Special Attack, so it can be worth the move slot.

-Magma Storm. Traps and does good damage, but is inaccurate. Could be a good Mega Pidgeot take? Maybe?

-Mystical Fire. Very nice for walls wanting to screw with Special attackers.

-Overheat. Mostly notable because it's alongside all this other stuff. Contrary abuse!

-Will O Wisp. The only Status move other than Sunny Day. Screw Physical attackers!

Lotta firepower, lotta Burning, some stat gains. No real difference between this and Typemons for it, in fact.

Most notable for having the best priority.

-Aqua Jet. Hello priority.

-Water Shuriken. Best priority available to just anyone, overall.

-Scald. Burning fools without using Fire.

-Aqua Ring. Passive healing.

-Water Spout. Eruption, but Water.

Surprisingly little good stuff one Water, actually. That's less of a problem than in Typemons though, since you just give the one Pokemon that wants Water Shuriken it and you're done.

Lots of tools, weighted toward stall, including Cotton Guard, Leech Seed, Spore...

-Horn Leech. Only Physical leech other than Drain Punch.

-Giga Drain. Special leech, though Oblivion Wing is strictly better.

-Wood Hammer. 120 BP recoil move. Could be nice for Rock Head/Magic Guard Pokemon.

-Seed Flare. 120 BP Special attacking move that has good odds of harshly lowering the target's Special Defense. For a Serene Grace Pokemon (Like Togekiss) it can be a fantastic wallbreaker support tool, even if they resist/doubly resist Grass!

-Solar Beam. Coverage for sun teams. Mostly notable for being something you could add to, for instance, Heliolisk.

-Cotton Guard. Best Defense boost in the game.

-Forest's Curse. Could actually be useful, if a bit gimmicky, for a Pokemon that can hit Grass types super effectively -such as Talonflame.

-Spore. Need I say more? Alternatively, Grass Whistle can be used by No Guarders even on Grass types.

-Leech Seed, Grassy Terrain, Synthesis, and Ingrain for recovery. Nice.

-Spiky Shield. 100% better than Protect.

-Worry Seed. For when you want to suppress Abilities. Also not that different from Typemons

The other supreme offense, but less so. But it has actual support tools! Notables include...

-Circle Throw! Forced-switching for everyone! Except against Ghosts.

-Storm Throw. Who cares about your Defense increase?

-Close Combat. Brutal attacking ability. Also potentially good for Contrary -such as Shuckle making itself a better wall. Contrary abuse-wise, overshadowed by...

-Superpower. Normally a bad move overshadowed by Close Combat, but Contrary users appreciate it. Of course, Malamar already gets it and Serperior hasn't had it released yet...

-Counter. Could be a nasty surprise, with proper prediction and/or Sashes/Sturdy.

-Dynamic Punch. Of course, Doublade is the only Physically competent No Guard user that doesn't already get it...

-Drain Punch! One of the only Physical leeching moves.

-Flying Press. Well, actually, it's really unappealing. In Typemons it at least provided a way to sneak Flying coverage onto a Fighting team. Here... I dunno, I could you get be wanting Flying coverage and Coil at the same time and settle for Bulk Up+Flying Press...

-Focus Punch. Ridiculously strong, and combined with Substitute could be obnoxious. Focus Punch Poison Heal Gliscor? You can also just predict a switch successfully, though that's riskier.

-Hammer Arm. Quite strong, and a great way to get Malamar outspeeding some things.

-High Jump Kick. When the target absolutely, positively, needs to die right now. I'd stick with Close Combat most of the time myself, but High Jump Kick is stronger.

-Mach Punch. Priority move!

-Vacuum Wave. The only Special priority of the game.

-Power Up Punch. Mostly notable if you're Mega Kangaskhan. Which already gets it. Eh.

-Sacred Sword. Bad Storm Throw, given Evasion boosters are banned.

-Seismic Toss. Who needs Attack?

-Aura Sphere. Oh thank Arceus, Special Fighting coverage that doesn't suck!

-Secret Sword. Even better: Special Fighting coverage that says FU to Eviolite Chansey!

-Focus Blast. Potentially good for Mega Pidgeot, mostly.

-Bulk Up. Overshadowed by Coil, but it's in here with all this other great stuff anyway...

Fighting: extremely diverse and good!

Some interesting things, though not many.

-Coil. Super Bulk Up! Particularly good for Pokemon that want to not miss, such as Head Smashers.

-Acid Spray. What I said about Seed Flare, except 100% reliable unless your opponent has a Steel type. Also it has crap BP.

-Clear Smog. For resetting the enemy's stats without resetting your own.

-Acid Armor. Coil is better most of the time, but hey.

-Toxic. For what few things don't already get it.

-Toxic Spikes. When absolutely positively everything on the enemy team needs to be Poisoned.

-Sludge Wave. For those Special Sheer Forcers that don't already get it. So Camerupt-Mega.

-Gastro Acid. For when you want to suppress Abilities.

Also not that different from Typemons, but more appealing since you can just put it on the one Pokemon that wants Coil and you're good.

A few neat tools.

-Ice Shard. More priority.

-Freeze Dry. Screw you Water types!

-Blizzard. For Hail teams, specifically.

-Frost Breath. Auto-crit Special move.

-Glaciate. Super Icy Wind! Not that great in Singles, but still.

-Haze. Block set-up Pokemon.

-Generally, Ice coverage, which is quite nice.

A lot more appealing than in Typemons, for the usual reasons.

Some amazing stuff.

-Quiver Dance. Murder everything. Mega Gardevoir says hi!

-Tail Glow. Murder everything.

-Bug Bite. Steal Berries could be nice, particularly for Technicians who want Bug coverage?

-Fell Stinger. For finishing blows.

-U-Turn. Amazing of course.

-Defend Order. Wallin'.

-Heal Order. Healin'.

-Powder. Surprise! Fire moves are useless against my Mega Scizor!

-Sticky Web. Excellent Speed control all around.

The fact that it's amazing is less notable since you aren't looking at an entire team needing relevant boosts, compared to Typemons. Still very good.

Utility in a box. And crappy attacking moves. But also Psycho Boost!

-Mirror Coat. Ha ha, screw all you Special attackers. Except the Dark ones.

-Psycho Boost. BAM!

-Mist Ball/Luster Purge. Not amazing, but 100% reliable with Serene Grace.

-Psystrike. Screw all you Special walls! Except the Dark ones and to a lesser extent the Psychic and Steel ones.

-Stored Power. Oh god.

-Synchronoise. Fighting and Poison types can use this to counter their counterparts, I guess.

-Calm Mind. Combine with Stored Power for hideous results!

-Cosmic Power. Wallin'. Also what I said about Calm Mind, but less so.

-Gravity. Can't block my Ground moves now, can you?

-Guard Split and Power Split. Steal durability and offense!

-Heal Block. Now anything can deny any wall its healing.

-Heart Swap. Steal everything!

-Imprison. I'm sorry, was that move important?

-Hypnosis. No Guard users can get great use out of this.

-Lunar Dance. It's potentially pretty good, particularly with a Prankster.

-Light Screen and Reflect. Dual Screens on anything!

-Magic Coat. Unexpectedly, you get hit with your own status move.

-Magic Room. No items for five turns.

-Power Trick. Mega Slowbro sweep!

-Psycho Shift. What status?

-Role Play and Skill Swap. Regigigas and Slaking say "hi".

-Trick. Item swappin'.

-Trick Room. Everything is it's own setter!

-Wonder Room. Screw with attackers and defenders alike.

So yeah Psychic is ridiculous utility. And here you can do stuff like put Secret Sword on Gardevoir while something else takes Psystrike. Nice.

A ridiculous array of useful options, though one of the weaker straight offenses.

-Foul Play. No offense? No problem!

-Knock Off. Yeah.

-Pursuit. Pursuit-trap everything.

-Sucker Punch. Yep.

-Snarl. Keep damaging and dropping stats.

-Dark Void. Sleep them!

-Hone Claws. Great for moves that miss.

-Nasty Plot. Special set-up for everyone.

-Parting Shot. Switch on anything except Magic Bounce. Force-switch Magic Bounce.

-Snatch. Whoops, did you want that?

-Switcheroo. Item swappin'.

-Taunt. Status shutdown on anything.

-Topsy-Turvy. Set-up? More like let-down.

So yeah, Dark is epic. Not as much stuff as Psychic, but probably more useful stuff.

Kinda meh, though Pranksters can do obnoxious things with Destiny Bond.

-Hex. 130 BP Ghost move against statused targets is actually pretty impressive if you plan on statusing the enemy anyway.

-Shadow Sneak. Priority.

-Night Shade. Who needs offensive stats?

-Curse. There are Ghosts that don't get it, and it's superior to Bulk Up for Trick Room.

-Destiny Bond. Yeah, screw you too!

-Trick Or Treat. Gimmicky overall, but could be good.

A lot more appealing than in Typemons, since you can put Destiny Bond on the one Prankster or whatever, rather than having to make an entire team around.

A great offensive type, and has several utility moves too, actually.

-Bolt Strike. 130 BP Physical move off a good type is nothing to laugh at. Particularly great for Pokemon with Accuracy advantages -Hone Claws, Compound Eyes, or No Guard all work. Or you can take Fusion Bolt to not miss.

-Nuzzle. Paralyze even Magic Bouncers 100% reliably, break Sashes and Sturdy, cheer.

-Volt Tackle. It's slightly weaker than Bolt Strike, but for Rock Head Pokemon it's no disadvantage and perfect accuracy.

-Charge Beam. Special Power Up Punch, sort of. Honestly outclassed by set up moves on other types, but if you're running Electric anyway...

-Electro Ball. Deoxys Speed says hi.

-Electroweb. Electric Icy Wind. Not that great when Glaciate exists and Ice is an even better offensive type, but if you're running Electric anyway, go for it.

-Thunder. For rain, specifically.

-Volt Switch. Very good! Outclassed by U-Turn and Parting Shot for reliability, but it's the only Special switching move.

-Zap Cannon. Really, only for Mega Pidgeot. But it's cool.

-Electric Terrain. Not amazing, but Sleep protection could be cool -put it on a Pokemon with native Spore/Sleep immunity and have them set it before switching out.

-Electrify/Ion Deluge. Place on something with Motor Drive/Lightning Rod/Volt Absorb and laugh maniacally.

-Magnet Rise. I dunno, maybe Heatran will appreciate it?

-Thunder Wave. Mostly notable for Pranksters -Nuzzle is almost always superior otherwise.

Not very different from Typemons, really.

Probably the overall best type to take, for all that its offenses are iffy in BP and utility. Less important than in Typemons that's it's so overall good, thankfully.

-Shift Gear. Best Physical set-up move in the game, right here.

-King's Shield. Ha ha screw your Physical attackers that make contact. (Keep in mind it does not block Status moves)

-Bullet Punch. Hooray priority!

-Gear Grind. 100 BP that can get past Substitutes and Sashes and Sturdy is pretty good, especially if you've got Technician to make it 150 BP.

-Gyro Ball. Best Trick Room move in the game.

-Heavy Slam. Extremely powerful for the extremely heavy, though most of the best users are either Uber or already get it.

-Metal Burst. Universal Counter/Mirror Coat! Just need to be slow. Fear Eviolite Chansey carrying this. Keep in mind it's not negative priority, though.

-Doom Desire. It's 140 BP and Special, so that's cool. It's also delayed, sooo...

-Iron Defense. For anything that wants to Physically wall and doesn't already have this or Acid Armor or whatever.

A lot fewer things that impress than some types, but what it's got is pretty ridiculous.

Actually not very good. It does provide Spikes...

-Earthquake/Precipice Blades. The latter is a direct upgrade over the former if you have an No Guard or Compound Eyes, and either way, Ground coverage if you need it.

-Spikes. As I already said.

-Bone Rush. Mega Heracross says hi.

-Bonemerang. Punch through Substitutes etc.

Yeah that's about it. There's some more stuff that would actually be pretty impressive in Doubles/Triples, like Rototiller and Land's Wrath, but this is Singles. Fortunately, this isn't Typemons, so you can give Bone Rush to Mega Heracross and Secret Sword to something else and so on, making Ground less unappealing.

An excellent offensive type, except that it's overall overshadowed by other types with stronger moves. But it also provides some utility, including the completely unique Stealth Rock.

-Stealth Rock. As I already said.

-Power Gem on anything! Finally!

-Head Smash. Rock Head/Magic Guard Pokemon love this.

-Rock Blast. For the Skill Linker that don't already get it.

-Diamond Storm. More reliable than any other Physical Rock move, and with a nifty side effect.

-Rock Wrecker. It's a recharge move, but who cares when you can do stuff like

0- Atk Life Orb Starmie Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 489-577 (164.6 - 194.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this. (For some reason Rock Wrecker isn't in Calc, so I used Giga Impact as the base) Look at that! Starmie only has 75 Attack, this is with a minus Attack nature, and even without the Life Orb it's a OHKO!

-Smack Down. Poor man's Gravity. Not sure why you'd care in this meta.

-Rock Polish. If all you need is Speed, Rock does in fact have that. Mostly notable for just being there if you want Rock's other stuff.

Not amazing, but if you just want Stealth Rock on one Pokemon -something that naturally gets U-Turn or Volt Switch, say- then it can be worth it.

It's a good offensive type with some nifty tools.

-Oblivion Wing. Best leech in the game.

-Tailwind. Speed!

-Acrobatics/Brave Bird/Dragon Ascent. Powerful Flying coverage fitting different builds/needs.

-Aeroblast. Special Flying coverage, the best overall.

-Hurricane. Mostly notable for Rain teams, since the only Special No Guarder already has Hurricane.

-Roost. Healing.

-Defog. Hazard clearing for anything!

-Mirror Move. Silly, but potentially useful.

Not a ton of stuff, but still pretty solid, especially since it's a very strong offensive type. Most notable is the combination of Roost and Defog, which can turn a ton of things into support Pokemon.

And of course there's no Fairy option, unlike Typemons.
 
ooooooohhh this looks like a fun metagame
Most of my ideas have been said already though.
How about..... Bulk Up+Diamond Storm specially defensive (insert fighting type here)? The extra defense boosts and coverage would be useful and if you're Scrafty you get attack boosts also. (then again scrafty usually runs knock off and drain punch so nvm)
It sounds okay in theory but is probably not great in practice... other than having reliable rock coverage, that is.
 
To be fair, when I first read the meta synopsis, I kind of assumed/hoped that only non-status moves would count - allowing for better coverage than a 60 BP special move, sure, but avoiding this degeneration into everything getting the setup it didn't have.

I'm kind of curious how that idea would pan out, but since it'd be too similar to this, I doubt it deserves a separate thread...
 
Minnakht said:
To be fair, when I first read the meta synopsis, I kind of assumed/hoped that only non-status moves would count - allowing for better coverage than a 60 BP special move, sure, but avoiding this degeneration into everything getting the setup it didn't have.

I'm kind of curious how that idea would pan out, but since it'd be too similar to this, I doubt it deserves a separate thread...
Click to expand...
You make an excellent point there. The Eevee General, as well as the rest of the community, what are your thoughts? This definitely seems like an interesting idea over the one that currently exists with potential set-up everywhere, but I want the community's thoughts first about it before I truly embrace it.
 
i like this change, but any way it could just be boosting moves my mega sableye wants spore/seed.
i also aggree with the post below becuase other wise it is basicly Stab mons plus
 
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Up to you Pikachuun . Minnakht 's point make sense because The Power Within is a play on Hidden Power, so it would make sense that only damaging moves are incorporated.
 
I would say so too because I'm not gonna lie here it would really suck to have Quiver Dance sweepers and that cancer Gliscor set everywhere (Poison Heal SubSeed Spiky Shield seems horrible)
 
I think it should only be damaging moves because then pokemon like chansey don't have to worry about +6 psyshock form swoobat and other pokemon. the same can be said about spore shift gear and lots of other status moves.
 
I think it would be overall more enjoyable if it was just attacking moves that you get, plus it making more sense with the there as Eevee said. Everything getting set-up moves and spore and parting shot is silly.
 
Whoa, I should've spoken up earlier. But yeah, there's plenty of metas that allow status moves already, like Typemons and STABmons and then it ends up being shell smash simple swoobat stored power.

And there's still some creative or just useful things to be done. Zap Cannon Mega Pidgeot, that Quagsire set up there with S-toss... I don't know, it just seems more fun to me than all the setup.

Can one thread contain two meta variants?
Also, how do I do this tagging people thing? Do I just say Eevee General or something?
EDIT: Seems not.
 
Minnakht said:
Whoa, I should've spoken up earlier. But yeah, there's plenty of metas that allow status moves already, like Typemons and STABmons and then it ends up being shell smash simple swoobat stored power.

And there's still some creative or just useful things to be done. Zap Cannon Mega Pidgeot, that Quagsire set up there with S-toss... I don't know, it just seems more fun to me than all the setup.

Can one thread contain two meta variants?
Also, how do I do this tagging people thing? Do I just say Eevee General or something?
EDIT: Seems not.
Click to expand...

To tag someone, you type @USERNAME, and then it will tag the username you typed after the @ (in this case, a user named USERNAME).
 
I'll be sad to see Quiver Dance Mega Gardevoir go, but I can live with it. I'm not as convinced removing Status moves from inclusion is the way to go, mind, since Normal moves don't exist to provide the most insane set-up options for everything (Nor Fairy for Geomancy shenanigans), but I won't campaign against the idea if everybody else thinks giving out stuff like Quiver Dance is too broken. (Though I don't actually see how that would be the case, myself, and am not fond of how it negatively impacts the utility of several types. Why am I supposed to take Psychic IVs, again?)
 
I thought about it for a while, and I think I've come up with a middle ground. I don't want this to be too similar to Sketchmons (as without any Status moves only 1 move is really needed), so how about we simply get rid of the bonus set-up moves instead? I think we can all agree that Quiver Dance, Tail Glow, etc. are quite powerful, but I don't see any reason why the SubSeed Gliscor or Defog/Roost *bulky thing* would make the metagame any worse (Except for prankster spore/dark void, but I'll cross that bridge when we get there), since everything has a method to hit those things now or otherwise deal with it. It's the same with reliable recovery, almost anything appreciates having that.

So, what do you think? I think this will foster creativity without making the metagame a set-up fest. And if you don't agree with this, Minnakht's suggestion would also be fine.
 
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