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Project The PU Theorymon Project [Week eighteen: Meganium]
- Thread starter MZ
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Ben Ohver
Recover Tentacool beats Roselia (AKA best spiker in the tier) 1-on-1 no matter what, which is pretty important imo. Al overestimates the amount of things that can force Tentacool out, for most of the things he mentions can't beat it 1-on-1 when you give Tentacool Recover or are heavily crippled by Scald. Recover is better because it gives Tentacool more lasting power, while momentum loss isn't very important because Tentacool works better on slow, bulky teams anyway, and it's not like Tentacool really needs more than Spin/Scald/Tspikes bar Knock Off, which is nice, but hardly essential. Recover Tentacool seems like it'd be better on stall than Regen Tentacool, and stall would really like a boost in PU considering it's not very good atm. Therefore, Recover > Regenerator
Recover Tentacool beats Roselia (AKA best spiker in the tier) 1-on-1 no matter what, which is pretty important imo. Al overestimates the amount of things that can force Tentacool out, for most of the things he mentions can't beat it 1-on-1 when you give Tentacool Recover or are heavily crippled by Scald. Recover is better because it gives Tentacool more lasting power, while momentum loss isn't very important because Tentacool works better on slow, bulky teams anyway, and it's not like Tentacool really needs more than Spin/Scald/Tspikes bar Knock Off, which is nice, but hardly essential. Recover Tentacool seems like it'd be better on stall than Regen Tentacool, and stall would really like a boost in PU considering it's not very good atm. Therefore, Recover > Regenerator
Certainly stall would appreciate Recover over Regenerator, because Recover is another option that Tentacool would highly appreciate. The choice between the two shifts the focus of the entire pokemon, with Recover making it a stall spinner and Regenerator making it more of a dedicated utility. I think PU overall needs a spinner, and Regenerator helps balance teams and the occasional bulky offense more than Recover would while still being useful on stall. The premise of Tentacool being best on bulky teams is somewhat mitigated by recovery anyway, since Tentacool does not have to rely on its teammates as much as it currently does without recovery.
As for the switch-ins, you are mostly correct. Some of them are quite risky if you predict and go for the Scald, but if you don't and have to Rapid Spin or something then you are in for some trouble. It was mostly to show that Tentacool has no shortage of answers to it, while having to either be locked into Recover and begging for the 30% burn to beat some. Some switch-ins even WANT you to Scald. In a stall match, i would love a burned defogger...much better than a poisoned one.
The issue really does come down to how we want to view Tentacool, and what the Recover vs. Regenerator conflict changes Tentacool into. The theorymoning behind this vote is interesting, and I was hoping people would flesh it out more. So thanks for challenging my thought process, seriously. It is an interesting topic.
I wish fagtron had posted earlier, the tide seemed to be changing, but the winner is Akir! In the future, arguments for/against certain ideas are cool, more discussion is always welcome
Our next subject is Clefairy! You have 5 days to post
yes it's because dundies asked
Okay so I'm blanking out on new "viable" ideas that would allow Clefairy to be better than it already is. It has a great support movepool, pretty good stats, and access to Eviolite. I was thinking about making Clefairy a Fairy / Psychic Type but I didn't want a Defensive Mr. Mime so here comes your god:
(+Normal Type)
Besides the fact Clefairy already was a Normal Type, it also has a large movepool revolved around a Normal Type as well as benefiting from it offensively, I guess. While it may not truly "benefit" Clefairy as a Defensive Pokemon, it would make more sense for it to be both types.
This is a sample set which I'm not really sure is decent at all:
Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calc Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Softboiled
I'm also making an addition of Comet Punch because Clefairy traveled on a comet (blah blah blah) as well as having a bunch of Punch moves and already learning Meteor Mash. In addition I'm adding Tail Whip and Tail Slap on it seeing as it can Whip and Slap people with its tail.
galbiaedit: Made Softboiled the main slash since running spdef with no recovery is silly
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Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Softboiled
- Moonblast
- Whatever You Want
PU just lost it's most reliable hazard clearer (Prinplup), so I decided to make it up <3
Defog Clefairy is a beautiful thing for a variety of reasons. Fairy typing, along with Clef's impressive bulk, make it a bulky threat regardless. Add in reliable recovery, immunity to relevant status, immunity to hazards, and you have the premier defogger for the tier.
Also pay no attention to the EV spread it's irrelevant
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Peef Rimgar How in the world would a little thing from a Meteor learn Defog? While the move would allow it to be a great Pokemon, it doesn't fit correctly for it to have Defog (Unfortunately).
I don't really know how much flavor Defog has ever really gotten though, it's just kinda a move a lot of things get (see Shiftry, Skuntank, Mew, Scizor). I feel like diversity and relevance over flavor is always important in these kinds of things as well.
In thinking actually, Defog has a really fairy type feel, at least to me. Maybe I'm weird though
About the 4 you mentioned, they all have justification. Shiftry can probably flap its arms around with those leaf "fans", Scizor has small wings behind its torso, Skuntank probably learns Defog as something about how skunks release odor, and Mew is Mew and can learn any TM (Defog was one in Gen 4). Granted, Clefairy has something resembling wings on its backsprite as well, but those 4 do have a reason to learn it.
New ability: Simple
Currently Clefairy's best role is as a win-condition for breaking down defensively oriented teams, something like Calm Mind / Softboiled / Moonblast / Flamethrower. However, it is pretty slow to set up, meaning it is often of little value against offense as the pressure prevents it ever getting enough boosts to become threatening. Simple fixes this to a certain extent. Clefairy would lose Magic Guard which would make it a bit easier for stall to handle, but it could always run a mono-attacking set with Heal Bell to avoid being wrecked by Toxic.
Galbiaedit: sigh the only thing that makes clef a good cm user is Magic Guard
Currently Clefairy's best role is as a win-condition for breaking down defensively oriented teams, something like Calm Mind / Softboiled / Moonblast / Flamethrower. However, it is pretty slow to set up, meaning it is often of little value against offense as the pressure prevents it ever getting enough boosts to become threatening. Simple fixes this to a certain extent. Clefairy would lose Magic Guard which would make it a bit easier for stall to handle, but it could always run a mono-attacking set with Heal Bell to avoid being wrecked by Toxic.
Galbiaedit: sigh the only thing that makes clef a good cm user is Magic Guard
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Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Softboiled
- Baton Pass
Seeing how Clefairy already has a great typing, fantastic ability, and a super wide movepool, it's hard to really think of anything it could get to improve, but here's an attempt to give it something new that has some use. BP allows it to pass CM boosts to teammates, which is really cool, and it doesn't pass up on anything huge by having BP in the 4th moveslot. It can still be used like you usually would use CM Clefairy (a bulky setup sweeper with immunity to passive damage, AKA the bane of stall), but in case your opponent rocks something that can beat Clefairy 1-v-1 quite easily, you can use BP to pass the boosts you accumulated to something that takes care of it. It doesn't make Clefairy a dedicated boost passer per se (otherwise NP Togetic would probably outclas it to a degree), but it does allow it to circumvent its counters, provided that you bring stuff on your team that appreciates the CM boost and can kill stuff that gets in Clefairy's way. It's part sweeper, part boost passer. Pretty cool stuff imo.
Justification isn't really needed tbh, Baton Pass is widespread, especially among cutemons, so I don't even know why it doesn't have this move already lol.
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Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD OR 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Bold/Careful Nature
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Whatever, really.
Unaware Clefairy is as stupid&simple as you can get: It's a rip of his evolution Clefable.
As you can guess if you ever faced some pokemon with Unaware, our point here is to fuck up setup sweepers.
I must say, even if it doesn't exist, it would work pretty well. Our setup sweepers aren't the strongest & mainly on +2 LO to break through offensives teams alone, i can think of a bunch of setup sweepers who wouldn't get rekt by Unaware Clefairy, mainly Pawniard, but it stills covers a lot of threats which is pretty nice.
The 2 moves are basic go-to moves on Clefairy. Toxic is also quite a go-to move for unaware pokemons, Toxic stall ez.
The 4th move? Idk, run what you want, maybe something to cripple Pawniard/Everything on Switchins, or even Calm Mind, it's up to you really.
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Clefairy @Eviolite
Ability: Prankster (-Friend Guard)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock/Heal Bell
- Magic Coat
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
Clefairy is really slow and has a wide support move pool, so I thought why not give it Prankster? Magic Coat is there to reflect back hazards and status that Clefairy is no longer immune to. Magic Coat can also reflect back Taunt to prevent it from being locked into Moonblast. Heal Bell can be used over Stealth Rock if you already have a Rocks setter, and to have a priority cleric.
Flavorwise, Prankster is distributed to a lot of cute Pokemon already, and at least two evolutionary lines that have it are Fairy Pokemon (Whimsicott's line and Klefki), so it isn't too much of a stretch that a cute Pokemon that regularly blows stuff up with Metronome in the anime could not be viewed as a Prankster.
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