-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
The Return of Flame Orb Cresselia (9th on Ladder at time of posting)
- Thread starter MythTrainerInfinity
- Start date
So does posting and not saying anything useful teabag ;)
I like this team alot;obviously the Cresselia is my favorite, I actually am testing it now. It works well, can't complain.
Overall great team, I would suggest maybe going with a more standard Twave cress, but it's ultimately your choice.
I like this team alot;obviously the Cresselia is my favorite, I actually am testing it now. It works well, can't complain.
Overall great team, I would suggest maybe going with a more standard Twave cress, but it's ultimately your choice.
I really like your style of sweeping stuff that can take hits. I have been experimenting with that myself with my current hail team. I beleive I did fight you a couple times, I think I might have won once, Idk. I don't know why you are so anti Stealth Rock. The trick Cresselia does strike me as odd, but it seems to work quite well for you. I guess also that Aromatheropy helps with the rest. Charge Beam Magnezone is pretty cool too. Since you made your whole team generally bulky, if you keep the threat of an attack, I find it hard for anything to sweep you.
You have serious Gengar issues. From my playtesting experiences, once they find out Blissey is attackless, SubGar or even ScarfGar rape this team hard. Jirachi can revenge it and Suicune does well 1 vs 1, but considering the majority of your team is outsped by it, I suggest throwing on an extra attack with Blissey, or Thunder Wave > Trick on Cress (I prefer the extra attack > Toxic).
Nice team though.
Nice team though.
Shit, this team is awesome. Just one question. Is Magnezone really needed on this team? Jirachi handles Scizor, Suicune can roar away a once SDed Scizor in emergencies. and Salamance has Fire Fang/Flamethrower (personally, I prefer Fire Blast as it hits Skarm harder than a +1 Fire Fang).
There is one pokemon that this team has problems against - Infernape. Flamethrower for Magnezone and Jirachi, Close Combat for Blissey, Grass Knot for Suicune, HP Ice for Salamance and Cresselia, after resting, may faint before she wakes up to rest again from repeated Flamethrowers (Nasty Plot means Infernape will always win). Ape can swap in after Magnezone traps and kills a steel, and your best hope is to swap in Suicune to absorb an attack and then a Grass Knot. It takes 46.04-54.46% damage; it will survive, but combine that with the attack that it swapped into and SR damage (minus one turn of Leftovers recovery) and Suicune has lost lots of health; it can only do this if it is sufficiently healthy. And prediction wars by swapping between Blissey to absorb special attacks and Salamance/Suicune for Close Combat is a poor idea, as Infernape has 11 turns (thanks to LO) to predict a Close Combat on Blissey, HP Ice on Salamance e.g., all with SR wearing down your health.
Magnezone should be replaced by Tentacruel, who comfortably walls all of Infernape's attacks, as well as Scizor. The moves I would use are Surf, Ice Beam, Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Rapid Spin's use is obvious, but your team has 4 pokemon vulnerable to Spikes and 2 to Tspikes (Blissey may suffer Aromtherapy PP issues against Stall teams, especially considering Suicune and Cresselia rely on a cleric). Without Magnezone, Skarmory and Forretress may set them up easier, so Tentacruel needs to be around to remove entry hazards (which Mag cannot do). Salamance is your strongest form of offence, and he needs to be kept alive. Knock Off is recommended over Tspikes. Your team places a large dependence on Cress spreading Burn to your opponent's team, and Tyranitar cannot be burnt if he is affected by Tspikes. Blissey also has Toxic should you need it. Knock Off removes your opponent's Leftovers, meaning that your opponent will be unable to stall as easily with a burn. Tentacruel is a great anti-stall team pokemon.
There is one pokemon that this team has problems against - Infernape. Flamethrower for Magnezone and Jirachi, Close Combat for Blissey, Grass Knot for Suicune, HP Ice for Salamance and Cresselia, after resting, may faint before she wakes up to rest again from repeated Flamethrowers (Nasty Plot means Infernape will always win). Ape can swap in after Magnezone traps and kills a steel, and your best hope is to swap in Suicune to absorb an attack and then a Grass Knot. It takes 46.04-54.46% damage; it will survive, but combine that with the attack that it swapped into and SR damage (minus one turn of Leftovers recovery) and Suicune has lost lots of health; it can only do this if it is sufficiently healthy. And prediction wars by swapping between Blissey to absorb special attacks and Salamance/Suicune for Close Combat is a poor idea, as Infernape has 11 turns (thanks to LO) to predict a Close Combat on Blissey, HP Ice on Salamance e.g., all with SR wearing down your health.
Magnezone should be replaced by Tentacruel, who comfortably walls all of Infernape's attacks, as well as Scizor. The moves I would use are Surf, Ice Beam, Rapid Spin and Knock Off. Rapid Spin's use is obvious, but your team has 4 pokemon vulnerable to Spikes and 2 to Tspikes (Blissey may suffer Aromtherapy PP issues against Stall teams, especially considering Suicune and Cresselia rely on a cleric). Without Magnezone, Skarmory and Forretress may set them up easier, so Tentacruel needs to be around to remove entry hazards (which Mag cannot do). Salamance is your strongest form of offence, and he needs to be kept alive. Knock Off is recommended over Tspikes. Your team places a large dependence on Cress spreading Burn to your opponent's team, and Tyranitar cannot be burnt if he is affected by Tspikes. Blissey also has Toxic should you need it. Knock Off removes your opponent's Leftovers, meaning that your opponent will be unable to stall as easily with a burn. Tentacruel is a great anti-stall team pokemon.
If I trap a Steel with Magnezone I usually will make sure I have a Sub up at the end. With a couple Charge Beam SAtk ups and people usually lose at least two pokémon, so Infernape will normally lose under those conditions.
Flamethrower is working really good for me, so I think I'll stick with that.
I need Trick on Cress just in case I get stuck with some Choice item and its really nice to Stick a Blissey or Celebi with a Flame Orb as it makes them easier to beat.
Gar needs SubPunch to win. Otherwise once I figure out what the item is then it is a piece of cake to handle.
I use Magnezone also as a wall to take those DD Outrages from Mence, which it does rather nicely, so Tentacruel I'm very doubtful will work...
Flamethrower is working really good for me, so I think I'll stick with that.
I need Trick on Cress just in case I get stuck with some Choice item and its really nice to Stick a Blissey or Celebi with a Flame Orb as it makes them easier to beat.
Gar needs SubPunch to win. Otherwise once I figure out what the item is then it is a piece of cake to handle.
I use Magnezone also as a wall to take those DD Outrages from Mence, which it does rather nicely, so Tentacruel I'm very doubtful will work...
Uh...barring Choiced Pokes, wouldn't every single steel type have shit to do as opposed to sit around and get fucked by Charge Beam?
Steelix can EQ/Roar.
Skarmory can WW.
Magnezone's Tbolt can break Sub.
Heatran can FB/EP.
Scizor can BB/SP.
Metagross can EQ.
Empoleon can Surf.
Jirachi can FP/U-Turn.
Bronzong can EQ/Explode.
And don't every single Blisseys have either Seismic Toss or Flamethrower as their move, so Charge Beam would never give you time to do anything as it is?
Steelix can EQ/Roar.
Skarmory can WW.
Magnezone's Tbolt can break Sub.
Heatran can FB/EP.
Scizor can BB/SP.
Metagross can EQ.
Empoleon can Surf.
Jirachi can FP/U-Turn.
Bronzong can EQ/Explode.
And don't every single Blisseys have either Seismic Toss or Flamethrower as their move, so Charge Beam would never give you time to do anything as it is?
He's not saying spam Charge Beam against Steel types. Rather, he is saying finish a Steel type off with a Sub Up, so you get at least one charge beam against whatever's up next, plus however many you got on the steel type in question.
Also, Cleric Bliss tends to run Twave/IceBeam/Softboiled/Aromatherapy, so would not have Flamethrower or Seismic Toss.
I have to agree with Aeroblacktyl that explosion might be the better option on magnezone, you could take out blissey (or seriously damage it anyway) and go for a suicune sweep (without reverting to stalling suicune against bliss). Also I have to say that Garchomp - Banned Deucer thing is awesome.
I've already fought people copying this team which shows how good it is.
I've already fought people copying this team which shows how good it is.
Explosion does pitiful damage unless it is backed up by LO, which sucks with Substitute.
Out of curiousity, what will happen if Infernape comes in on your Blissey as it uses Arometherapy/Softboiled? And Jirachi can also take DD Salamance Outrages.
Well you do have your ranking in your signature, panamaxis. I don't usually get many replies to my RMTs, so after observing others getting soem good rates with displaying their rankings I thought I'd try it:P
If I mispredict with an Explosion then I basically wased Magnezone.... So I don't think I'm doing that. This team is meant to be more defenisve anyway.
If I mispredict with an Explosion then I basically wased Magnezone.... So I don't think I'm doing that. This team is meant to be more defenisve anyway.
Well if Infernape has Nasty Plot/CC/Grass Knot/Flamethrower, Salamence wins. If Infernape has HP Ice over Nasty Plot, Cresselia wins.
Anyways awesome team. Psycho Shift Cress is a great surprise that ruins the two most common switch ins, Tyranitar and Scizor. I have seen that Cress in action and it is very cool. Many of your pokemon movesets are a bit odd, but they take advantage of other players and are not gimmicky in any way.
The whole Charge Beam thing seems like kind of a waste. Magnezone will usually be forced out by a faster sweeper, and most steels that you will trap will not dare let you sit in and boost (unless they're choiced). Explosion would be good.
Cool team.
Explosion does fine damage with Leftovers. If standard Calm Blissey switches into a Thunderbolt, it is OHKOed by Explosion if you move the 100 defense EVs to attack.
Personally, I like the idea of Magnezone boosting its Sp Atk while the opposing Steel pokemon is just attempting to break the sub. For example:
Scarf/SpecsTran locked in Dragon Pulse/HP Ice, Grass, Elec
BandScizor locked in BP
ScafedJirachis locked into Ice Punch
SpecsCario locked in DragonPulse, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball
Sure opponnet has to be Choiced for this to work, but the results are excellent, seeing as its a 60% chance to raise your Sp Atk while taking 2 hits behind your sub, plus I think Explosion on Magnezone is not needed on a team such as yours, which definetly focuses on both, a strong offense and defense.
I will have to agree that you might want to give Blissey an attacking move to hit Gengar with, as it can definetly be a problem with the SubPunching set. Other than that, excellent team.
Scarf/SpecsTran locked in Dragon Pulse/HP Ice, Grass, Elec
BandScizor locked in BP
ScafedJirachis locked into Ice Punch
SpecsCario locked in DragonPulse, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball
Sure opponnet has to be Choiced for this to work, but the results are excellent, seeing as its a 60% chance to raise your Sp Atk while taking 2 hits behind your sub, plus I think Explosion on Magnezone is not needed on a team such as yours, which definetly focuses on both, a strong offense and defense.
I will have to agree that you might want to give Blissey an attacking move to hit Gengar with, as it can definetly be a problem with the SubPunching set. Other than that, excellent team.
He's said before that he wants to keep Trick on Cress to screw over other trickers and opposing walls.
As for Sleep-talking rest onto the opponent, the problem with that is that it is a fairly rare occurence. You have two chances to get a 1-in-3 Psycho Shift, and if you do, it saves you at best 1 turn (and if you get it on the second 'talk it's 0). Plus, the opponent is likely to be burned from Psycho Shifting a burn onto it or from Tricking Flame Orb to it, so the chances to put it to sleep are rare. And Aromatherapy can already be used to wake Cress up from her sleep, so it doesn't seem all too useful.
Don't forget if Jirachi Tricks its Scarf to a Steel they can become setup fodder later. +2 Magnezone OHKO many Heatrans, so with a Sub up a number of the things that can come in and revenge Magnezone simply cannot. If the opponent only has one counter that's pretty much gg right there.
The fact that Cresselia burns stuff makes Magnezone stick around even longer.
This Magnezone basically plays like a CM Sub Jirachi, but with taking some hits better and trapping one of the most used types in the OU metagame.
Bog standard gets boring.... Be creative!
The fact that Cresselia burns stuff makes Magnezone stick around even longer.
This Magnezone basically plays like a CM Sub Jirachi, but with taking some hits better and trapping one of the most used types in the OU metagame.
Bog standard gets boring.... Be creative!
Jirachi outspeeds it even after an Rock Polish, and Salamence can Intimidate it. Cress can burn it. Suicune.. lol, 'nough said.
After watching you're battles for quite a time. I am very sure that Charge Beam helped you winning a lot of battles. Keep it.
I'm still insisting that SD Perior is a big problem for this team if it gets a SD off. Nothing can really switch into it's STAB attacks without losing around 50-60% percent. If it doesn't take that much it is most likely OHKOd (Blissey, Salamence, Jirachi)
But I guess Suicune can handle it. Then again if you rest well you don't have ST meaning you are a sitting duck. Maybe Swampert>Suicune. Just a suggestion.
But I guess Suicune can handle it. Then again if you rest well you don't have ST meaning you are a sitting duck. Maybe Swampert>Suicune. Just a suggestion.