ORAS OU The Stall is Real

[chuavechito]

.....o0o..... [Introduction] .....o0o.....

With the removal of Greninja from the scene I decided to give a new try to the good old stall.

I will gladly appreciate any suggestion that could improve my team.

.....o0o..... [Building Process] .....o0o.....​

My starting point was the clasic SkarmBliss. At this point, the basic idea was to have good special walls and good defensive walls, switching between each other in order to drop free moves when opponents are forced to switch.

I opted for a 3/3 Def/SpD walls, so I added one more wall of each type. My first though were the genies Tornadus and Landorous in their Therian formes. Landy-T works as a nice physical wall thanks to his intimidate, while Assault Vest Tornadus can do a lot of stuff thanks to Regenerator.

Next stop was my Mega. MAggron seemed like the best choice at that point since he has massive Def. Then, as my 6th moon, I went for one of my old Gothitelle sets. That set takes major adventage of mass switchs, so I though it could work. Its basically a bulky setup set that can trap a lot of things and kill them for free.

At this point I started to do some serious testing. The first and most obvious playtest result was that MAggron was mostly useless because he is just big Def and nothing else. His offensive capabilities are non-existent and Rest as his only recovery move is simply put underwhelming. Because of that I went for MSlowbro because he has solid stats and access to solid tools such as Scalad and Slack Off. Second thing was, Chansey was better than Blissey. Blissey is good but Eviolite is just too strong, even in a metagame dominated by Knock Off.

Turns out, MSlowbro has waaaay to many weaknesses, which makes him not reliable as a wall. So after debating weather I should play a Mega or not, I decided to test Sableye. I was very skeptical at first, but he won my heart. Having access to WoW and MBounce is simply huge. Also, I realized that Tornadus-t was kind of underwhelming. The Assault Vest variant doesnt put enough pressure and cant even stall that well. I also didnt had room in my Chansey for both Wish and Heal Bell so I decided to swap my Tornadus-T for Florges. I didnt like Florges on paper BUT she did wonderful when playtesting. Turns out, having 2 Wish pasers in the team is actually pretty good.

The comunity suggested Clefable over Florges, and I loved how she performed, so I did the switch. Also, and after a lot of testing, I decided I wanted to move Stealth Rock into her. As result, I decided to switch back to Blissey since I dont have room for TWave anymore because droping Seismic Toss makes me way to suceptible to Substitute and Taunt, and without TWave I dont need Softboild over Protect, so in the end Blissey becomes better since she has Leftovers to abuse Protect. Finally, the lack of recovery of Landy-T on top of me not needing him for SR anymore made me dislike him enough to switch him for Arcanine, another Inimidate user that has good defensive synergy with Skarm but who also has a recovery in the form of Morning Sun.

.....o0o..... [The Team] .....o0o.....

Without further delay let me introduce you my team...

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Confuse Ray
- Recover​

Sableye works as a strong defensive wall with access to several crippling moves on top of Magic Bounce. Knock Off not only cripples because of the removal of the item, but also hits pretty much as hard as Landy-T's due to STAB. WoW is the mandatory move that lets me wall even Sword Dancers. Confuse Ray is there because it forces switches, and Recover is pretty much staple.

Sableye provies so many random things for the team. WoW is great with Goth because it allows her to set up on a lot of physical mons. Confuse Ray is a very cool tool to have. If they decide not to switch its almost guaranteed that I get at last 1 full prz turn out of it during its entired duration. Knock Off also really good in this metagame, and having a Magic Bouncer lets me mindgame a lot, there mere fact that there is a MSableye in the team is enough to force opponents to do suboptimal plays. Finally, I have a Spike and SRocks in this team, so having a Ghost to block Rapid Spin is always good.

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect​

Arcanine is a solid defensive wall. While his good Bulk in combination with Intimidate would let me tank a lots of physical hits, his WoW is the big thing here. It shuts down physical attackers on top of the residual damage per turn. Intimidate is really big in this team because it allows Goth to set up on a lot of physical mons she wouldnt be able to set up into (for example, she can set up and take down Ferrothorn at -1 regardless of his moveset). WoW is quite good becauseit shuts down physical attackers damage by half. Morning Sun is my recovery move of choice. Protect is there to help me predict, on top of improving Leftovers recovery and WoW residual damage. Finally, I went for Fire Blast because a) he has solid base SpA and b) most physical attackers who are weak to fire usually have high enough Def to survive the 1HKO without any Atk investment. Fire Blast is perfect in those cases because it 1hkos, among other things, Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Ferrothorn and Skarmory.

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Spikes​

My 3rd physical wall is Skarmory. Whirlwind/Sturdy can either maximise hazard impact aswell as phazing threats that just set up on somebody. Roost is obviously staple, while Spikes are needed in any stall team. I didnt go for Stealth Rocks because I already have them on Blissey. I went for Brave Bird because I dont want to be destroyed by Taunt, and its always good to have an attacking option. Shed Shell is my item of choice because I cant expect Leftovers to be there long enough to have an impact due to the omnipresent Knock Off. Its there basically so Magnezone cant kill Skarm for free.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Protect​

Blissey is the big SpD wall. She is there to drop Random Seismic Toss to wear down targets, on top been able to pass huge Wishes. Seismic Toss also lets me take down Substitute and not been shut down by Taunt. She is my Stealth Rock user because, this way, I have one wall of each type (SpD/Def) with hazards, so regardless of what my opponent has in front, I will be able to switch into a wall and set up hazards. Protect turns Wish into a reliable recovery on top of maximising Leftovers recovery and burn damage.

216 HP gives me the highest Leftovers magic number. Max Def because I dont want to be shut down by random U-Turns or Knock Offs on special attackers. It also lets me tank mixed attackers quite well. Rest in SpD because I dont use her other stats. Minimum Atk to reduce Foul Play as much as possible.

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Wish
- Protect​

Clefable is my secondary special wall. The main reason she is there is Unaware, which basically makes Calm Mind and Nasty Plot useless. Her typing is fantastic and has great synergy with Blissey and Gothitelle since she can absorb the super effective moves directed at Blissey and Goth.

Moonblast is there because she has solid SpA on top of Fairy been a solid attack type. On top of that, the -SpA drops are pretty relevant since a) it may mean that I could switch into Goth and trap b) it may force a switch because their damage is not strong enough). Also, it can counter Taunt and Substitute. Aromatherapy was needed because several of my mons are suceptible to status. On top of that if I go for Rest on Goth I can wake her up with Clefable to have her ready for action. Next up is Wish, having 2 Wish passers is (imo) solid because Blissey is not always ready for combat. It also works as a recovery move for Clefable itself. Finally, I have Protect because a) its free Leftovers recovery b) it turns Wish into a reliable recovery for Clefable c) scouting (or any form of information) is always good in stall d) its free burn damage if target is already burned.

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Substitute
- Calm Mind​

My last mon is kind of the boss of the team. She is there to switch into certain mons that cant kill her for whatever reason (not enough dmg by itself, Intimidate, WoW, Moonblast SpA drop, TWave, etc). Once she arrives they cant switch so at that point they will eventually die, which means you took down one of their pokemons for free. Thats insanely good in stall.

The set basically revolves arround CM/Sub/Rest. Crippled physical attackers whoo cant 1HKO Subs allow you to use 1 free CM every Sub, which means that you will eventually set up to +6 and kill them. Special attackers will eventually be unable to break Subs because of CM, so you again will go to +6 and kill them. The idea is to end up with +6 SpA/SpD and behind a Sub, at that point you Psyshook until you take them down and they have to send something to adress the +6 Goth behind a Sub which is a lot of pressure and can mean a sweep by itself in some cases. Obviously, the moveset is completely walled by Dark types so dont expect to always be able to sweep after a set up (thats not the main objetive, the main obvjective is to take down a mon for free).

.....o0o..... [Replays] .....o0o.....​

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest-198505693

A solid game in which you can see a bit of everything.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest-198474495

A nice game with several predictions that shows the full power of Goth when she can set up into something.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest-198455129

A good example on how I get free moves with the forced switches. Goth also takes down a Knock Off Mew who is also his Defoger, leaving him vulnerable to my hazards.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest-198710317

Stall vs Stall. MegaSableye putting some work. In the end I outpredict him + trap his Porygon2 with Goth for the KO. He FFs there.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oususpecttest-199590415

211 turns long game vs a balanced team.

.....o0o..... [Changelog] .....o0o.....​

12/31/14 - This team was posted.
01/02/15 - Removed Landorus-T, Chansey and Florges. Added Arcanine, Blissey and Clefable.
01/06/15 - Added Rocky Helmet over Shed Shell on Skarmory.

 

[Invok3r]

Hi chauvechito, I have a few suggestions for your team. First of all, stall teams must have an unaware mon, so you don't get 6-0d by setup sweepers(mainly tail glow manaphy and nasty plot thundurus.) To fix this problem, you can change florges to unaware clefable.

Clefable Set:

Hide

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

Next, your team gets 6-0d by stallbreaker talonflame. Quite simply, you can change knock off to stone edge on landorus-t.

Hide

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

​

​

Be sure to change rocky helmet on skarmory to shed shell, so you don't get trapped by magnezones and other gothitelles.

Hide

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Spikes

Lastly, you can change chansey's set to max hp and max defense. Although she is your special wall, there is not a single special attack in ou that can 2hko her, so max special defense isn't necessary.

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled

​

I hope that I helped!
​

 

[DKFirelord]

Why use Florges over Sylveon it has a lot better ability and hp which is better for wish passing

Edit: or even Clefable

 

[chuavechito]

I will test Clefable over Florges (but with a SpD build because I will completely lack on SpD otherwise) and switch Chansey's SpD into HP (I havent made enough calcs to see if I wont be able to stall certain threads so until then it seems like a logical change).

I havent had enough trouble with Magnezone, so I dont really see the point on Shed Shell atm. If I see more I may change my mind but so far the few I faced I predicted and traped with Goth. Worst case scenario, I revenge kill with Goth. Not really that big of a deal.

Also, I dont really see how I have troubles with Stallbreaker Talonflame. MSableye eats that thing alive.

Thanks for you help so far :)

 

[Invok3r]

The best damage sableye can do to talonflame is the first knock off.

0 Atk Mega Sableye Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 121-144 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- 35.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Talon can proceed to bulk up or swords dance, and sweep.

 

[chuavechito]

Afaik stallbreaker Talonflame has Brave Bird / Roost / Taunt / Will-O-Wisp. Stallbreaker cant bypass Sableye (5HKO).

The ones with Bulk Up are called (afaik) Bulk Up variants, and they play it alongside Roost / Brave Bird / Taunt or Will-O-Wisp. Bulk Up sets cant bypass Skarmory (3HKO at +6).

The ones with Swords Dance are called (afaik) Swords Dance variants, and they play it alongisde Roost / Brave Bird / Flare Blitz. They need to be at +6 for them to 1HKO Sableye (unless they have Sharp Beak and I havent use Knock Off yet). Confuse Ray does major work vs them (they take half of their HP as damage at +4, that in combination with Knock Off / Recoil is enough to KO them).

Worst case scenario, they take 64% of their HP as recoil dmg when 1shooting Chansey lol.

 

[Posho]

Florges isn't a good mon in OU imo, there are a lot of mons whick outclass it.
If u want a fairy cleric i recommend unaware clefable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
Florges is a great set up fodder for many things like Sub Gyara2 dd, Zard X w/ dd, Crocune,etc. However Clefable can support the team without worrying about set up.
That's all, i preffer semistall or balanced so i can't opine much
PD: Sorry if you find mistakes, i'm spanish(Yes, i like paella ggg), Good team :]

 

[F22/aRaptor]

Hi this is quite a good team but I feel it could do with some minor tweaks. The first one is swapping either Knock Off/Confuse Ray for Foul Play because you can still use a burned physical attackers attack stat against them. Secondly I recommend Counter over Brave Bird on Skarmory as this allows you to punish the use of U-Turn by wearing down the switch ins to Skarmory when combined with Hazards and also then break through most physical attackers without resorting to racking up recoil damage from Brave Bird. Lastly I would recommend using a bulky Specs Goth over your set. That way you can cripple incoming dark types such as Umbreon and Bisharp with Trick, making them easier to deal with.

 

[chuavechito]

First of all, thanks for all the help you guys are giving me so far :)

Florges isn't a good mon in OU imo, there are a lot of mons whick outclass it.
If u want a fairy cleric i recommend unaware clefable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
Florges is a great set up fodder for many things like Sub Gyara2 dd, Zard X w/ dd, Crocune,etc. However Clefable can support the team without worrying about set up.
That's all, i preffer semistall or balanced so i can't opine much
PD: Sorry if you find mistakes, i'm spanish(Yes, i like paella ggg), Good team :]

Im currently testing a +252 SpD Clefable. So far its Florges with lower SpD and real ability. Im undecided wether I should play a SpD or Def set but so far she is doing way better than Florges.

PD: Que asco la paella jaja el pescado guardalo y a mi pasame la carne.

Hi this is quite a good team but I feel it could do with some minor tweaks. The first one is swapping either Knock Off/Confuse Ray for Foul Play because you can still use a burned physical attackers attack stat against them. Secondly I recommend Counter over Brave Bird on Skarmory as this allows you to punish the use of U-Turn by wearing down the switch ins to Skarmory when combined with Hazards and also then break through most physical attackers without resorting to racking up recoil damage from Brave Bird. Lastly I would recommend using a bulky Specs Goth over your set. That way you can cripple incoming dark types such as Umbreon and Bisharp with Trick, making them easier to deal with.

I honestly care more about utility rather than raw damage, so Foul Play isnt what Im looking for tbh.

Counter does NO damage vs U-Turn lol:
252+ Atk Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 14-16 (4.1 - 4.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
If they U-Turn, then Helmet + Whirlwind is the way to go.
What I like about Brave Bird is the fact that I can do damage vs Taunt users, on top of been a solid attack vs certain mons:
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 129-153 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 224-266 (80.8 - 96%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 224-266 (82.6 - 98.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 186-218 (68.6 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Leftovers Goth is the way to go. She is literally the boss mon of this team.

 

[Celticpride]

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Psyshock / Energy Ball
- Synthesis

I wouldn't say Florges is totally useless in OU now. It gets Synthesis, giving it some edge over it's Fairy brethren. Clef doesn't have the same level of Special Defense and Sylveon doesn't have the reliable recovery. I would make the above adjustment to make Florges useful.

 

[chuavechito]

I have been doing a lot of testing. I will update the OP in a few minutes.

Clefable will replace Florges. Unaware has proven to be too good vs anything with Calm Mind or Nasty Plot (cant take those down with Florges).

I will move Stealth Rock from Landorus-T to Blissey. This is mostly because Im having all my hazards on physical walls, wich resulted into me not been able to set up early hazards because they send special attackers. This way I always have the option to switch into one wall and drop a hazard regardless if my opponent has a SpA or Atk mon out there.

I will switch TWave for SRocks. TWave sometimes conflicted with WoW. If I PRZ a target I needed to burn Im in trouble. Not to mention that if I drop Toss over TWave she will be way to suceptible to Substitute and Taunt. Then, since I have no reason to play Softboild over Protect anymore, I will do so, since Protect helps predicting and abusing burn dmg. Subsecuently, Blissey becomes better than Chansey because Blissey can abuse Leftovers thanks to Protect. So in the end, Blissey will replace Chansey.

Arcanine will replace Landorus-T. I have been doing a lot of testing in this regard. This is a temporary change. Im having a lot of troubles due to Landy-T been so weak to Ice and Burn, on top of the lack of recovery outside Leftovers. Not to mention he cant do anything past Intimidate while Arcanine has access to WoW. I have been testing a lot of mons in this slot, so far Arcanine is the one that is doing better. I will keep you guys updated.

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Psyshock / Energy Ball
- Synthesis

I wouldn't say Florges is totally useless in OU now. It gets Synthesis, giving it some edge over it's Fairy brethren. Clef doesn't have the same level of Special Defense and Sylveon doesn't have the reliable recovery. I would make the above adjustment to make Florges useful.

I completely agree on the Florges statment. She is not useless in OU imo. Clefable has been doing better tho, because she adress certain troubles Florges cant touch. I also belive she is better than Sylveon as a special wall.

 

[Sacredtwin11]

What does this team have for Zard x? Clef is 2hko'd, arcanine can't do anything back, mega sableye can't do anything, skarmory is obviously ko'd, blissey is as well, and gothitelle can't do crap either.

 

[chuavechito]

Depending on the build he is either crap or a major threat. Some of them usually have: DD + Roost or Sub or WoW + Dragon Claw + EQ or Fire Punch or Flare Blitz. The EQ set is completelly walled by Skarm: +6 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 216-254 (64.6 - 76%). The Flare Blitz set can be killed by recoil dmg on Blissey (He takes 75% of his life as recoil when 1shooting Blissey). I have no out for Fire Punch tho.

Overall, I have a troubles vs physical fire mons because I cant burn them nor stall them via Skarm. The good thing is that the only two OU ones are Talonflame and ZardX, and I have outs for most ZardX sets and most Talonflame sets.

The other semi viable ones are Darmanitan, Entei and Infernape. Most Infernape sets can be deal with by Clefable. Darmanitan gets owned by Sableye and Arcanine. Entei usually go for either Assault Vest, which gets owned by Arcanine and Sableye, or Choice Band, which I have no outs.

Updated original post. I decided to swap Rocky Helmet on Skarm for Shed Shell. While Magnezone its not an autolose, Rocky Helmet has been underwhelming lately. The only physical spineres I have seen lately are Excadrill and Donphan, and since most Donphans have Knock Off, it has been quite impactless. Shed Shell seemed like the best possible item because, while Magnezone can be played arround up to a point, its never to bad.