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Lower Tiers The UU Viability Ranking Thread

Sub/salac sd Heracross , Using it along rain dance support from tornadus and kingdra i did managed to get on the top 100 in the PO ladder with a team with no sr support ! and only 5 members its so Hilarius OP .

animefagg (Heracross) (F) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Adamant/jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Megahorn/Close compat
- Stone Edge

Give it a try people and tell me how it worked for you this set allows it to break through some of his best counters gligar and crobat if used right.
 
The thing about Walrein and Rotom-F is that they only need hail to be effective, and as Snow Warning is the only weather ability allowed in UU it's very easy to keep it up.

In OU and ubers weather abusers that are almost worthless without their weather of choice such as Venusaur and Excadrill are placed in A-rank, on par with Ninetales and Tyranitar, respectively.

And it's not like Tyranitar and Excadrill have good type synergy since they share 3 common weaknesses. The same can be said about most rain abusers and Politoed as well as most sun abusers and Ninetales.

As long as hail is the only weather in UU I think both Walrein and Rotom-F are worthy of B-rank at least.
 
Saying hail is needed for walrein to be usable in this tier is exactly what the problem is . That is like saying hey pairing this weak pokemon with this other B rank pokemon to remove his counters .Yeah sure using that pokemon with the other can get your weak pokemon to work easier but that still doesn't say that the weak pokemon is viable as others.
 
How about endure reversal liechi berry unburden Hitmonlee? It's a great scarf revenge killer (it kills Honchkrow, inshao, Heracross, krokodile... there's not much it doesn't revenge kill when played right) It can outright sweep with little to no warning, and it's anti meta to a lot of things, like offensive calm mind Suicune, any scarf user, a tonne of the offensive threats, and a few walls, like Defensive calm mind suicune, which for example after stealth rock damage has a 62.5% chance to KO. A few things though, Gligar walls it completely, as does Slowbro. Something like a Kingdra could set up on it if he d dances until Hitmonlee is irrelevant. Priority users can revenge kill hitmonlee quite easily, but if you pack mach punch, a Weavile or a Bisharp is going to have a nasty surprise.
Pros: Allows you more freedom to pick pokemon on your team. In Hitmonlee, you potentially have a pokemon that fills the role of a scarfer and a very potent sweeper in one pokemon. Hell you can have 2 pokeon fufilling the scarf role.
Cons: If your opponent catches on with what's happening, he'll be able to set up, orrevenge kill Hitmonlee quite easily. He also might status Hitmonlee, which would suck too. Meta game wise, it's easy enough to stop a Hitmonlee when it gets more usage.
edit: I'd suggest it would fit in C or D rank.
 
ElectivireRocks said:
The thing about Walrein and Rotom-F is that they only need hail to be effective, and as Snow Warning is the only weather ability allowed in UU it's very easy to keep it up.

In OU and ubers weather abusers that are almost worthless without their weather of choice such as Venusaur and Excadrill are placed in A-rank, on par with Ninetales and Tyranitar, respectively.

And it's not like Tyranitar and Excadrill have good type synergy since they share 3 common weaknesses. The same can be said about most rain abusers and Politoed as well as most sun abusers and Ninetales.

As long as hail is the only weather in UU I think both Walrein and Rotom-F are worthy of B-rank at least.
Click to expand...

Well, Venusaur is pretty much the only reason one would use Ninetales, so it makes sense that it is on the same level. You can use Abamasnow without an abuser because it is a good check to common mons and gets rid of Kingdra and Tornadus's rain.

If Excadrill relied on Sand in Ubers, it would almost certainly be in B-Rank or lower. It is in A-Rank because it's the best offensive spinner, and actually is most commonly used with Mold Breaker on Rain teams.

How is this relevant? Although Walrien and Rotom-F are good inside of hail, the fact that you can't run both (three Fighting and Rock weaknesses is almost too difficult to play around) really hampers their usefulness. You are forced to stack weaknesses just be using them. I'd say C-Rank is fine for these guys.
 
Nominating Crustle and Omastar for C-Rank and Ferroseed for D-Rank.

These three Pokemon all have a niche of having both Stealth Rock and Spikes.

Crustle can Custap Lead to serve as a weaker Deoxys-D guaranteeing two hazards and can fight back with 95 Attack, and 125 Defense is decent. It has some flaws in bad defensive typing and a weak 75 SDef. C-Rank for me.

Omastar is a different Spiker. It can burn with Scald and has Ice Beam for coverage, coupled with a decent 115 SAtk. It can also Shell Smash to try to sweep, though Zapdos, Raikou, and Mienshao can KO it before it sets up thanks to poor Speed. C-Rank for me.

Ferroseed. It is much harder to do its job with Xatu around than in RU, but it can wall any Choice-locked Poison-type attack and Leech Seed (lolSubSeedWhimsicott) and use it as setup fodder. It is outclassed in the bulk department by Cofagrigus, Gligar, Slowbro, and even Hitmontop, and it is Taunt bait, and bulky Grass-types wall it, but it can set up Spikes unlike the other four. D-Rank for me.

EDIT: Smeargle for C-Rank. It can also Spike and Stealth Rock, can Magic Coat off hazards (Deoxys-S), Spore something to sleep, and SmashPass, QuiverPass, or ShiftPass, and can even use Substitute or Ingrain to stop one of the phazing types. Also FEAR is quite fun.
 
MQJinx said:
Nominating Crustle and Omastar for C-Rank and Ferroseed for D-Rank.

These three Pokemon all have a niche of having both Stealth Rock and Spikes.

Crustle can Custap Lead to serve as a weaker Deoxys-D guaranteeing two hazards and can fight back with 95 Attack, and 125 Defense is decent. It has some flaws in bad defensive typing and a weak 75 SDef. C-Rank for me.

Omastar is a different Spiker. It can burn with Scald and has Ice Beam for coverage, coupled with a decent 115 SAtk. It can also Shell Smash to try to sweep, though Zapdos, Raikou, and Mienshao can KO it before it sets up thanks to poor Speed. C-Rank for me.

Ferroseed. It is much harder to do its job with Xatu around than in RU, but it can wall any Choice-locked Poison-type attack and use it as setup fodder. It is outclassed in the bulk department by Cofagrigus, Gligar, Slowbro, and even Hitmontop, and it is Taunt bait, and bulky Grass-types wall it, but it can set up Spikes unlike the other four. D-Rank for me.
Click to expand...

I second these notions, since these three are unique in the sense that they can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock, and are great as suicide leads in general.

I'd like to nominate Scolipede for C-Rank, because he has an awesome Speed tier, outpacing Froslass and Tornadus, while he has Spikes to back up his Speed, making him an awesome asset to offensive teams. While he faces much competition from Froslass and Accelgor, Scolipede hits notably harder than both, putting the extra hurt with Megahorn, and if his Sash activates, he can fire a Swarm powered Megahorn to hit hard. He is also not completely helpless against Nidoqueen and Nidoking thanks to Earthquake / Aqua Tail, unlike Accelgor. Scolipede has access to Swords Dance, allowing him to serve as a great physical sweeper and can use his awesome physical movepool, with Megahorn as well as options in EQ, Rock Slide, Aqua Tail, and Poison Jab to hit mighty hard, and stands out from Heracross with his greater Speed tier.

Accelgor imo is definitely C-Rank, since like Scolipede, he is an excellent speedy spiker, outpacing practically the entire UU metagame while setting up Spikes in their faces, and has a nice Special Attack and Bug Buzz, Focus Blast, and HP Rock or Giga Drain to lay the hurt, much like his centipede cousin. He has Final Gambit so if they don't do anything while he Spikes, he can sacrifice himself to deal some good damage to the opposing team. He can also run an offensive set, with Life Orb and the four aforementioned attacks, putting quite a bit of hurt on the team.

On the hail discussion, I could support moving Rotom-F and Walrein up; since hail is the only auto weather and the two are extremely lethal in the hail.
 
Hey. I hate to be a minimod (or whatever the forum equivalent of that is), but a lot of the posts on this thread are sort of irrelevant. If you're going to suggest a set or something that would prove why a pokemon is deserving of a certain rank, make sure you actually include the rank that they deserve. There are 3 posts on this page alone that just talk about a set without having anything to do with changing the rank of the pokemon being discussed.

In response to the actual posts, Thick Fat walrein is 100% ridiculous (although it should still be B rank), Ferroseed for D is also a good idea.

Omastar and Crustle should be at least Rank C, if not B. Crustle is the most viable pokemon in the tier that boasts both Stealth Rocks and Spikes, and can utilize Custap-Sturdy to actually get hazards off. Furthermore, its awesome attack stat and coverage (okay, maybe awesome is a bit of an exaggeration) helps it to OHKO a lot of common hazard-preventers, most notably Froslass or Xatu, both of which it can OHKO T1 with a Rock Blast/SE.

Omastar can also effectively run a Swift Swim sweeping stat, boasting 115 SpA over Kingdra's 95, as well as access to Shell Smash. It lacks the dragon stab, but it's still very viable.

In terms of hail overall, I'd just like to once again point out that around half of the highest-laddered teams are hail stall, which obviously points to its viability on the ladder. Given that Rotom-F and Walrein are integral parts of these teams, and these teams are peaking the ladder, it should only be logical to say that they should be at least B-rank.
 
Update

Amoongus up from C-rank ==> B-rank
Galvantula up from C-rank ==> B-rank
Arcanine up from C-rank ==> B-rank
Rotom-F up from C-rank ==> B-rank
Riolu added to D-rank
Ferroseed added to C-rank
Eelektross added to C-rank
Crustle added to C-rank
Omaster added to C-rank
Scolipede added to B-rank

So I basically reverted a few unnecessary drop downs and added some new Pokemon to the list. I think I might do something to B-tier since it's starting to become huge. Oh, and I think Cresselia should be moved up to A-tier, since it's impenetrable with the right support. (refer 50% of reachzero's teams) Thoughts?
 
I'm a little torn on Cresselia. On one hand, she walls Choice-locked Ground-type moves and can wall Zapdos, Mienshao, Raikou, Snorlax, and Togekiss. She also paralyzes or toxic stalls Pokemon for her teammates to finish. She also sets up dual screens and can sacrifice herself to safely bring in a teammate to take attacks like nothing. SubCM is also good for the surprise. On the other hand, Kingdra and Victini spell doom, and Sableye throws a wrench in Cresselia's plans with Taunt. I'd say A-Rank. If we decide to split it into high, mid, and low, Cress would be Low A.

Any ideas on Smeargle's placement? It can set up Spikes and Stealth Rock, Magic Coat off hazards (Deoxys-S), Spore something to sleep, SmashPass, QuiverPass, ShiftPass, and use Substitute or Ingrain to stop one of the phazing types. Also FEAR is quite fun, even if gimmicky and usually uncompetitive. I'd put it in C-Rank.
 
From my experience of using Smeargle in a Trick Room Hail team, it is a very good pick if you want a suicide lead with both SR + Spikes. Spore, SR, and Spikes are mandatory while in the last slot Magic Coat is good against other common leads and if your teams has serious trouble with hazards and Whirlwind is good to deal with setup sweepers even after Spore has been used. I think Smeargle is good enough for low B rank or high C rank.
 
Just out of interest, why Scolipede for B-Rank over all the new additions to C?

I'd say Cress for (Low) A-Rank. Its pretty uncommon in the tier but whenever I face it I know it's gonna be a struggle to take it out, it just doesn't ever seem to die. It has an excellent support movepool and requires little team support, especially since its immune to Spikes & Toxic Spikes. Psychich isn't necessarily the best typing for a wall but Cress makes up for it by sheer amount of bulk.

I honestly can't think of anything you could do to B-Tier (besides separate it into high mid & low) since the majority of the pokemon in the rank are in UU, and I really think most of them deserve to be there.
 
Cresselia is pretty annoying to take down, even though its typing isn't that great defensively, it's kind of like Rhydon in RU in the sense that although it's typing is not great defensively, its sheer bulk more than makes up for that. (Not that I'm comparing them, just saying that's some similarity). It can take hits for weeks, has pretty reliable recovery in Moonlight (not to mention Hail really isn't that common), and can be annoying with Thunder Wave. It does take on quite a bit of attackers, such as Mienshao, Snorlax, and a lot of others. SubCM has been decent too, and its bulk allows it many opportunities to set up. I'd be fine with moving it to A-Rank.

Smeargle should probably be C, it's a decent lead, it can be a hazard lead or better yet a Baton Passer, I think C-Rank is suitable.

Nominating Alomomola for C-Rank. It's bulkier than fucking Skarmory, and has massive Wishes which it can pass. It can wall things like Mienshao, Darmanitan, Snorlax, and many physical attackers in UU. It can come in, and toss a Wish, then switch. Its access to Wish is the advantage it has over Slowbro, while Mola's main advantage over Umbreon is its larger Wish and access to Regenerator, which helps. It has great synergy with Roserade as well, which is nice. It has its flaws such as its lack of power and competition from other bulky Waters such as Slowbro and Slowking, but I think C-Rank is suitable.

I think its suitable to do "Top, Mid, and Low" divisions of the ranks by the way, at this point the ranks seem pretty set.
 
I believe aerodactyl belongs in B rank. The life orb set serves as a check to an unbelievable amount of attackers in the tier. It has some trouble hurting defensive threats but taunt can mitigate this to an extent. It can reliably set up stealth rock multiple times due to opponents switching out fearing edgequake.

Aero's ability to check many attackers in the tier and set up stealth rock give it incredible usefullness on offensive teams. If the tiers were to be split up I think it belongs in either Mid or low B rank.


On the topic of Cresselia:
Cress is shit weak and can't take repeated powerful attacks in UU other than fighting. But I think it shines in two areas really well. It's ability to switch in on random attacks throughout a match makes it a fantastic defensive pivot. The other area Cress does really well in is SubCM later in a match. Cress really excels when not much can hurt it late game as things that hurt Cress are easy to get rid of. I agree that Cresselia belongs in a low a rank.
 
I can't think of many attackers in UU it actually checks, could you give some examples? Edgequake isn't that great honestly, sure it gives nice neutral coverage but Aerodactly's non STAB EQ isn't very threatening and relying on Stone Edge constantly isn't a good strategy. Aerodactly's pretty poor typing, weakness to SR, and frailty make it pretty hard for it to set up multiple times honestly, especially since there's a good change it'll just die in a 1v1 versus most leads in the tier (Bronzong, Azelf, Weavile, anything with a Scarf, any Water type)

I'd say Aerodactly for C-Rank.
 
PTJon7 said:
I can't think of many attackers in UU it actually checks, could you give some examples? Edgequake isn't that great honestly, sure it gives nice neutral coverage but Aerodactly's non STAB EQ isn't very threatening and relying on Stone Edge constantly isn't a good strategy. Aerodactly's pretty poor typing, weakness to SR, and frailty make it pretty hard for it to set up multiple times honestly, especially since there's a good change it'll just die in a 1v1 versus most leads in the tier (Bronzong, Azelf, Weavile, anything with a Scarf, any Water type)

I'd say Aerodactly for C-Rank.
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First of all, I don't think aerodactyl should be played in the lead spot too often. Really, roost is a better option over stealth rock. Roost gives aero the oppurtunity to heal off the stealth rock damage it recieves when switching in.

I should have said Aerodactyl revenges alot of the attackers in UU.

(I just plugged in to one v all. some of these with a choice scarf or priority move are inaccurate)
Heracross (UU Substitute)
Zapdos (UU Physically Defensive)
Porygon-Z (UU Nasty Plot)
Nidoqueen (UU Offensive)
Arcanine (UU Physically Defensive)
Arcanine (UU Sunny Day [Intimidate])
Azelf (UU Nasty Plot)
Bisharp (UU Swords Dance)
Arcanine (UU Offensive [Intimidate])
Empoleon (UU Agility)
Ambipom (UU Choice Band)
Empoleon (UU SubPetaya)
Roserade (UU Spikes)
Raikou (UU Life Orb)
Togekiss (UU ParaFlinch)
Zapdos (UU SubRoost)

Togekiss (UU Defensive Nasty Plot)
Mismagius (UU Nasty Plot)
Zoroark (UU Nasty Plot)
Victini (UU Choice Band)
Togekiss (UU Offensive Nasty Plot)
Zapdos (UU Specially Defensive)
Roserade (UU Offensive)
Zapdos (UU Agility)
Arcanine (UU Sunny Day)
Togekiss (UU Choice Scarf)
Crobat (UU Stallbreaker)
Arcanine (UU Offensive)
Zapdos (UU Offensive)
Zapdos (UU Choice Specs)
Sharpedo (UU Special Attacker)
Chandelure (UU Choice Specs)
Crobat (UU Choice Band)
Froslass (UU Utility)
Rotom-H (UU Choice Specs)
Abomasnow (UU Placeholder)
Chandelure (UU SubSplit)
Xatu (UU Support)
Chandelure (UU Choice Scarf)
Tornadus (UU Bulk Up)
Darmanitan (UU Choice Scarf)
Froslass (UU Dedicated Lead)
Honchkrow (UU Life Orb)
Weavile (UU Swords Dance)
Houndoom (UU Nasty Plot)
Houndoom (UU Mixed Attacker)
Yanmega (UU Life Orb)

It should be noted that aero can actually switch in on victini or chandelure choice scarf locked into a fire move with stealth rocks and outspeed it next turn to take it out.

Aero revenges these threats while also not being locked into a move like a typical choice scarfer would. This allows Aero to be invaluable for offensive teams. I still think he is of higher potential than most pokemon in C rank.
 
That list is pretty misleading, it repeats pokemon multiple times and some of them aren't even true. I did my best to make the list more accurate (removed specific sets, nothing has a Scarf, no priority users):
  1. Abomasnow
  2. Ambipom
  3. Arcanine
  4. Azelf
  5. Bisharp
  6. Chandelure
  7. Crobat
  8. Empoleon
  9. Froslass
  10. Heracross
  11. Houndoom
  12. Mismagius
  13. Nidoqueen
  14. Porygon-Z
  15. Raikou
  16. Roserade
  17. Rotom-H
  18. Togekiss
  19. Tornadus
  20. Victini
  21. Xatu
  22. Zapdos
  23. Zoroark
Click to expand...
This list is literally half the length, and even so, some of these pokemon need prior damage to get killed by Aerodactly (Heracross, Nidoqueen, PZ, & Empoleon are some of the ones I calced). Basically it can comfortably revenge kill a little more than a third of the tier. Almost any wall can pretty easily switch into Aerodactly though, especially since it has to rely on a 80% accurate STAB to do most of it's damage. I really do think C-Rank is the place for Aerodactly.
 
I would consider adding Rotom for D-rank. In the UU metagame, Rotom has a small niche of being an offensive spin-blocker. Though it faces competition from Frosslass, Rotom has access to STAB electric type attacks as well as trick, will-o-wisp and various other useful moves. Rotom also has levitate and a ghost typing, allowing to to check many fighting- and ground- types running rampant in UU.
 
Yea I'd say Rotom is worth mentioning. Thanks to it's STABs it can actually not only block but beat every Rapid Spinner in the tier. It 2HKOs Claydol, Blastoise, and Hitmontop with it's STABs and can also gain momentum with Volt Switch. I'd say Rotom is worthy of Low C or D Rank.
 
I would like to nominate Registeel for B Rank. Although it struggles with the many fighting and fire types in UU, it is still a very effective tank, stealth rocker, and paralysis spreader. Also, I have been seeing a lot more Crobats and Porygon2's. But that may just be me. Anyway, Registeel pretty much hard counters those pokes.

Registeel for B!
 
OG Asian said:
I would like to nominate Registeel for B Rank. Although it struggles with the many fighting and fire types in UU, it is still a very effective tank, stealth rocker, and paralysis spreader. Also, I have been seeing a lot more Crobats and Porygon2's. But that may just be me. Anyway, Registeel pretty much hard counters those pokes.

Registeel for B!
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Registeel loses to Crobat if it's Taunted, and can only then use Seismic Toss/Iron Head, which does pitiful damage that Crobat can Roost off of. Porygon2 is susceptible to Toxic from Registeel but other than that Porygon2 can wear it down over time and just use Recover, while Registeel has to rely on Lefties for recovery.

In fact, that's kind of Registeel's main fault that keeps it in C-Rank. Despite its titanic mixed defensive stats, Registeel has no recovery, and a very thin, even predictable movepool. A large amount of threats even in B-Rank can threaten it, wall it, set up on it, or eventually cause it to switch. To name a few: Arcanine, Cobalion, Empoleon, Machamp, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Porygon2, Qwilfish, Rotom-H, Sableye, Scrafty, etc. etc.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are typically inferior to the Pokemon in the above ranks.
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Fits Registeel to a "T" in my opinion. The flaws it has are exactly what lets it down into C-Rank.
 
Glad to see arcanine move up. Thing has a shit ton of utility; just a shame that it's semi-forced into running crunch for chandy. I'd argue arcanine for A if it weren't for chandy :(

Also, pls let's not do the B+/B/B-!! It's so cluttered and not beautiful. :D
 
Is that sarcasm...?

I'd say Arcanine is worth B, at the very least I don't think it should be C-Rank. It's main problem is that its pretty outclassed by Darm and Victini, but it does have some key advantages such as ESpeed and Morning Sun that makes it viable.

I'm proposing Golurk for B-Rank. First and foremost I think it is the best check to Fighting types in UU. Thanks to it's Ghost/Ground typing it resists every move that standard Mienshao runs and the best thing Heracross can hit it with is an EQ (assuming it doesn't have Night Slash). No Guard + Dynamic Punch is always extremely annoying, and provides Golurk with further utility. Being able to spin block and also set up Stealth Rocks is another useful point.
 
Nominating Kabutops for C rank. The Choice Band set, in conjunction with Rain from Tornadus, makes it a really dangerous sweeper capable of OHKOing or 2HKOing almost everything in UU with the right coverage move. Waterfall, Stone Edge, and Low Kick are all great physical moves that it can use, though Superpower is another option over Low Kick since UU is the home to some light Pokemon. Kabutops can also run a Life Orb set with Rapid Spin, though the power loss and recoil damage is unfortunate.

As powerful as Kabutops is, it is reliant on Rain to do consistent damage as it is way too slow (by sweeper standards) and frail to do much damage without the rain. Omastar in my experience is a bit better than Kabutops as a rain sweeper because of its ridiculously powerful Hydro Pump, access to Shell Smash, and slightly better bulk. Still, Kabutops is very powerful and can clean wonderfully late-game with Rain support, as well as spin or set up SR if need be.
 
@Jon: The best check to Fighting-types that aren't Scrafty and Virizion, you mean. But yeah, I'll buy that; I've seen just how irritating Golurk can be.

Also supporting Arcanine for B. It's perfectly usable and even has some advantage over Victini for its ability to break Snorlax with CC (Brick Break on Victini isn't all that useful, tbh) in addition to what Jon already listed.
 
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