Neutral coverage is overrated: since your Ice Beam is effectively ~135BP after STAB, your neutral coverage needs to be at least 70BP to be worthwhile (except for those rare opponents that 4x resist Ice), which limits you to Signal Beam or Extrasensory; Extrasensory is more powerful but Signal Beam gives you more super-effective hits. You can still run something like (I think best is) HP Ground for the additional super-effective hits of course.
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Metagame Tier Shift
- Thread starter G-Luke
- Start date
did you just see my calcs, neither move does squat to the mons they want to hit
Cryogonal: You just love stacking Stealth Rock weaknesses, don't you?
Hitmonlee: /dt hitmontop
Kabutops: The only reason to use Kabutops is on Rain Offensive, and even then it doesn't use Rapid Spin, they use a defogger like Xatu.
note that breaking screens doesn't count as secondary
Bubble Beam is weak as shit and won't be doing 40% to ANY viable Fire type. Its a complete waste of time. HP Grass is also a complete waste as nothing it hits viably wants to come in on Freeze Dry.
Both the Rock and Steel type are weak to Fighting, and weaknesses stack. Besides Bastiodon is complete shite so it needeth not worry about hitting it.
Garou
Banned deucer.
This metagame seems like an incredibly fun concept and now that it has a new leader I think this is a good time to post on a pokemon I feel like :could: be good. Namely Barbaracle. Now I don't know if Barbaracle is good or not since I am gonna be brutally honest ive never played this before, but if it is or isn't I think it looks really fun. With the increase to its speed it can be more viable as a shell smash sweeper, and hold a sash or something, allowing it to make use of its base 125 attack which in tandem with tough claws on contact moves is nothing to scoff at. Its boosted speed allows it to outspeed the whole unboosted OU metagame after a shell smash, and many other lower tier threats it has to contend with. I think barbaracle could be really nice with this increased speed and attack and thus when I get round to building a team for this metagame I will definitely be using Barbaracle for the stuff I just said. Idk if i'm being oblivious to an already good mon but just my 2 cents on a mon i think looks cool
I've seen there's been some time since this was last discussed, but is making this an Ubers-based metagame out of discussion? I remember playing Extreme Tier Shift and it was a very fun metagame, and also pretty popular. I've heard that OU mons are not very viable in TS right now, and that makes sense considering most OU mons are specialized to one task (even Lando is either Defensive or Offensive), how can they compete with beasts like Mesprit (120/145/145/145/145/120) or Silvally (135/135/135/135/135/135), that are fast, powerful and extremely bulky (like Ubers mons). I' sure there are some examples of OU mons that can and work here, but if moving to being Ubers based could increase the variety of mons used, maybe it's a good idea. Anyway, I don't intend to fight over this, I'm just giving my opinion.
Hey everyone!
As you know, I have taken over Tier Shift, and as new leader I'll be calling the shots.
One, viability rankings have been started, and should be up soon.
Two, I'd love it for people to submit some sample teams that they have, as the ones in the OP as of now are painfully outdated.
In regards to the unbanning of Ubers, I am not in full support of the idea, but I welcome people to share as to why they think it woild be a good idea to do so.
As you know, I have taken over Tier Shift, and as new leader I'll be calling the shots.
One, viability rankings have been started, and should be up soon.
Two, I'd love it for people to submit some sample teams that they have, as the ones in the OP as of now are painfully outdated.
In regards to the unbanning of Ubers, I am not in full support of the idea, but I welcome people to share as to why they think it woild be a good idea to do so.
interesting idea, could see some interesting tournaments with my friends. as for the unbanning of ubers, personally i dont like the idea but i could see it occuring with like a -10 or -15 or something like that since it is technically above OU.
Allow ubers but with -10 to all stats?
eww no, xerneas would dominate
Ubers IMO would not dominate, at most the ever present pdon and probably xerneas and the like would still be in use but in any case most mons that get ts boosts are much stronger than ur standard ubers mon
xerneas? more like misclick x
Defensive Checks (minimum EVs shown):
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Metang: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Metang: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Muk: 187-221 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 141-166 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 183-216 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 145-171 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Weezing: 186-219 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Roselia: 172-203 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Arbok: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Garbodor: 190-224 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 158-187 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Offensive Checks (+2 Bulky Xerneas is outsped by Base 150, any neutral scarfed mon over Base 94, or any positive scarfed mon over Base 81):
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 474-560 (108.7 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 510-600 (116.9 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hustle Nidorino Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 444-524 (101.8 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 492-578 (112.8 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 462-546 (105.9 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 468-552 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Xerneas may be potent in Tier Shift, but pack an Assault Vester, Choice Scarfer, or bulky Poison or Steel, and they can check it with ease.
edit: pdon checks coming soon tm
Defensive Checks (minimum EVs shown):
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Metang: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Metang: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 220 HP / 0 SpD Muk: 187-221 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 141-166 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vileplume: 183-216 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 145-171 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Weezing: 186-219 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Roselia: 172-203 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Arbok: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 92+ SpD Garbodor: 190-224 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 158-187 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Offensive Checks (+2 Bulky Xerneas is outsped by Base 150, any neutral scarfed mon over Base 94, or any positive scarfed mon over Base 81):
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio-Alola Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 474-560 (108.7 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Arbok Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 510-600 (116.9 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hustle Nidorino Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 444-524 (101.8 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 492-578 (112.8 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 462-546 (105.9 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 468-552 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Xerneas may be potent in Tier Shift, but pack an Assault Vester, Choice Scarfer, or bulky Poison or Steel, and they can check it with ease.
edit: pdon checks coming soon tm
Last edited:
Okay so would rotom-fan be better zapdos? same typing but with better stats
90/105/147/145/147/126
90/105/147/145/147/126
It really wouldn't due to its lack of Roost and coverage options.
I think BL tiers should get the boosts from the tier below. The Pokémon in BL are actually UU(RU/NU/PU) by usage and the new names clearly reflect that. From an OU point of view, an UUBL Pokémon is not inherently more powerful or more used than an UU Pokémon just because it was banned from UU, in fact it often tends to be the opposite (random example: Diggersby vs Gliscor). Regardless of any individual comparison, the thing that UU and UUBL Pokémon have in common is that neither have enough usage to be classified as OU(meaning also that an UUBL mon can be "freed" at any time and consequentially gain TS buffs despite their actual usage not changing). This metagame is about buffing lesser used Pokémon and BL Pokémon are getting unjustly shafted despite not being any lesser used than their other low tier brethrens because of a flawed logical approach.
They are not usable in the tier below them. Pokemon get boosts based on the lowest tier they can be used. Seems logical to me. In any case, metagame threads should be used to discuss the metagame. Do not bring up concept/mechanical changes in any OM thread, unless you are asked to do so.
While it does have a passable 125 in both stats, it has nowhere near the wide movepool that made Blaziken Ubers (and even then, Blaziken is still pretty bad in Ubers). It has no viable physical Fighting move to work with Swords Dance, and with a special set (which Combusken usually runs in PU), it is extremely underwhelming, not to mention the number of good Water types in the tier (Gastrodon, Quagsire, Vaporeon, and Slowbro). While its stats may seem good on paper, it falls flat in practice.
Why don't we just make it so that BL Pokes get +5, BL2 +15, etc.?
BL mons are just banlists for tiers. They are not tiers within themselves, and therefore will get the boosts of the lowest tier they are legal in.
No, because ZU is not a tier, and its ladder isn’t official.
I was thinking about this too, but I'm not sure what (if any) effect this would have over the nerf option.
If OU mons are unviable and people had doubts about the viability of regular Ubers then adding nerfed Ubers to the meta might not really do anything. Adding regular Ubers and buffed OU is more likely to actually add mons to the meta. Of course you might have to change the size of the boost per tier if you did that and then you are basically redoing the whole tier; which seems unlikely. Just a thought.
TBH I thought the smaller boosts of previous gens gave you more choices as there were good mons in every tier.
TBH I thought the smaller boosts of previous gens gave you more choices as there were good mons in every tier.