Can someone enlighten me why Chansey (A Rank) was better than Blissey despite having an exact movepool? Thank you very much
thx for pointing that out, a mistake on my endCan someone enlighten me why Chansey (A Rank) was better than Blissey despite having an exact movepool? Thank you very much
this is partly true, the only problematic form of cheese when it comes to weather would be sun but if i were to rank them it would be (sun>>>rain>>hail>>>>>>>sand) in that order1) Cheese Offense coming in the form of Weather. Rain, Sun, HAIL, (honestly i havent seen sand, it makes sense that it would be the least viable of the 4) are so INSANELY broken. ZU, PU, and NU mons toiling away in standards now get ludicrous boosts to go along with their synergistic abilities make them ridiculously fast powerhouses.
beartic(or hail in general) isnt that great nor should it be compared to sun in anyway other than being another form of weather. there are dozens of mons who can easily deal with hail in general on all forms of playstyles though ho has its issue with hail but those issues are the same with weather in general. sun in general has too much to deal with everything and there abusers are all gaining that fat 40+ stats, they have too much coverage across the board which makes sun the problem and not hail or rain. back then clamperl was killing every mon at +2 and couldnt be revenged no matter what, this was the pinnacle of weather and the worst it has been since damp rock/ deepseastone was banned, we had no answers and no counterplay to rain back then and now rain is no where near that level of ability atm.For example: Beartic: 482 Attack, 558 speed under hail - Exeggutor, 471 Special Attack, 578 speed under sun or Victreebell with 135/130 Attack/Spa split with access to growth and hits 598 speed without a positive nature - Too many swift swimmers to count.
balance is fine, been using balanced all my life and never had these problems. only broken stuff was sun/victreebell where i had to run specific counters for and had to build against. common stuff like av king/av audino/ resttalk guzz/ sigi/swoobat/drampa and alot more all shut down weather in general. the only problem is victreebell on sun and sun's influence on teambuilding as whole nothing is on par with those atm.Tons of these mons have boosting moves that makes then even more fearsome. SD on Beartic, Growth on Victreebell, Shellsmash on plenty of swift swimmers, and now they'll start living hits because of their defence boosts. Gorebyss has a 145/105 defense split now. Beartic 120/120 split with 95 hp, etc. This is by far the number 1 reason TS is where balance goes to die.
not sure about this one, stall isnt in a good position right now and it never really has been since the hp nerf. stall rn gets 6-0ed by throh or any good team built around throh and this doesnt even need to be explained. only very specific stall builds are viable atm and stall cant be spammed as much as it used to be in the past, its pretty obvious. im not sure why ur saying balance is bad or its sucking away when in fact its stall that has lost all of its quirks and counterplay to pretty much every offensive mon. swoobat wastes 90% of stall builds by itself and throh has gotten alot more leeway thanks to the hp nerf and how it doesnt lose to every fairy and only certain fairies beat it now. like there's nothing that points to balance being "dead" or "dying" due to weather and stall. 90% of teams in snake were pretty much balance outside of 1 person using stall once in snake which was myself. unless u have some sort of statistics that im missing, im entirely confused about this statement as a whole.2) Stall: This is sort of a weird one. idk if it's actually stall's doing that causes balance to lose, or merely the significant amount of resources balance needs to dedicate towards combatting my first reason that gives stall a leg up on balance. I have a feeling this is the case, since Stall tends to not struggle vs Balance, which really should not be the case. I don't really feel stall needs to be nerfed atm, just felt like it played a role in balance sucking in a weird way.
yes that is the most logically move, banning weather summoning abilities and only allow directly summoning the weather, this allows the tempo to be alot easier to adjust to because u cant stop someone from harding into victlobell and clicking growth. along with banning heat rock as well and the other rocks that boost the duration of weather.Proposed bans: Weather summoning abilities is the most logical option for me. I know some people think just banning the Chloro, Swift Swim, Slush Rush, Sand rush(?) would be enough. And it very likely could fix everything, but there would still be some broken guys around. Solar Power Charizard as an example can 2hko an AV thickfat hariyama which sports a 144/90 HP/SpD split. That's a yikes from me.
provide replays of hail or beatric doing anything remotely on par with sun at an high level, beatric(hail) and Victreebell(sun) arent a 1 to 1 comparison at all. in fact beatric is the only mon on hail that is considered good and the only build for hail and sun has so many variations its crazy. dont act like they are on the same level when hail has never been on that level to begin with. nothing about beatric changes while its in hail but speed, all of its counters and checks stay the same.
Ok ill start out by saying ive pretty much not touched TS since gen 6, mostly cos I haven't been a fan of the fact that it was made to be basically Extreme Tier shift (an Ubers based omotm) boosts wise because the leader at the time was worried that it might not get enough "hype" thus making it in my opinion, fairly uncompetitive. I think omotm's by nature fit the broken stuff for "hype" model, because they aren't made to be balancable enough to be competitively viable, as much as they are meant to be cool with lots of broken shit that attracts ppl in the month that they are accessible on the main server. TS never was intended to be an omotm so therefore shouldn't have catered to this crowd anyways imho, the point of the meta was to make the non-ou mons just as viable, not to make them Ubers level. Like ets was at least an Ubers meta game, which this isnt, so now its like ur the biggest idiot on the planet if ur using OU or UU mons, cos all the PU and NU mons have bst's of like 650+. I hope TS learns from this and next gen decides on more sensible boosts, cos I (and pretty much all the other oms players I talk to) much much preferred the old gen 6 boosts, and furthermore if that had carried over id actually be confident that TS woulda been up there with the other perms this gen and a staple in the big tours.I do not think weather on a whole is banworthy or broken. Beartic is a good cleaner but faces similar problems that it faces with in standard in that it would rely on Hail which isn't a top tier playstyle by any means, and realistically doesnt overwhelm balance.
Sun though, I can understand. Traditionally the way to go about tackling Sun is to pack checks like Flareon, but after the HP nerf it has seen better days, while sun in general has increased in popularity. A means to tackle Sun could come in the form of introducing a Heat Rock ban, which gives teams more counterplay without permanently ashing the viability of mons like Ninetales or Torkoal in the same vein as a Drought ban.
Regarding Ursaring, it has been the face of anti stall for a long time, but I never found it to be outright broken, thanks to fat teams that it normally walks over losing steam to offensive playstyles which Ursaring struggles against. That being said, the situation will be monitered and if more people come out and can bring some more substantial evidence to Ursaring's broken attributes, expect results.
Not sure where this "stall is dead" movement is coming from but it most certainly isnt dead, sure stall has been targeted and hit the most due to most recent nerfs and changes, there's only specific forms of stall that can be used stall which was used Om snake successfully if anything the meta is more "balanced" that you make it out to be because based on recent tours and usage its most certainly not true.I think in any balanced or even somewhat balanced meta, stall and balance should be viable. Therefore the proof that TS is nowhere close to that, is that stall literally is impossible to build. Whilst im not overly experienced in the meta, I do pride myself in being now quite decent at building stall in most oms, and I find it quite fun to try and construct a stall team from scratch. I did not have fun trying to build TS stall. I literally spent ages with my team trying to come up with a reliable ursaring check on stall and we were unsuccessful. This bitch is genuinely impossible to check defensively. Any non-resist is clean 2kho'd by facade, and its not even close. Like avalugg, a mon which after the ts boosts has 95/224 physical defences, gets obliterated: 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO, 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and thats the fattest non-resist I could actually find. Not to mention if rocks are up, ur just straight up royally fucked. This means ur only real defensive counterplay options are: rock/steel/ghost. And you cant run rock+steel dual types cos then cc is sending you to the nearest parallel universe. Normally in an ou meta game where ur looking for a normal resist that can cope with fighting moves too, ur looking at skarm. Well if that was you, think again cos ursaring says fuck you to skarm: 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 131-154 (39.2 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO,252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 150-177 (44.9 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, with the ability to sd too. Like the only skarm set that stands a chance is counter, so you roost off the damage, and you counter kill it even if it sd's cos of sturdy.... but again this is fairly risky, and leaves ur skarm at 7% best case scenario and it also just makes ur skarm ridiculously passive.... and odds are ur opponent in omwc isnt an idiot, so therefore he plays it slow and gets rocks up.... cos close combat is a guaranteed 2kho after rocks. All the other rock or steel types do even worse, cos they dont even have reliable recovery like skarm. Like fucking mega aggron with filter doesn't come close to evading the cc 2kho.
So ok, ur tired of seeing facade and close combat murder your team.... so you do the sensible thing and go for a ghost type...... oh wait ursaring also gets crunch and play rough as coverage options. Here are the calcs vs the bulkiest ghost types in the meta: 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Doublade: 190-224 (59 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 178-210 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. . Fun right?
And the worst part is, this is just all in the effort of finding a mon that evades the 2kho from ONE mon, not even dealing with the rest of the issue which is killing said mon. Like because of the boosts, as Jrdn said, ursaring gets 90/115/115 defences, making it actually really annoying to kill..... and if ur building stall u cant really afford to whittle it down, cos this bitch gets swords dance, and if that goes up for free its literally a wrap. Like for example, in my head the first thing that came to mind was a ghost type with foul play.... it doesn't work: 0 Atk Dusknoir Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 124-146 (32.2 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage, 0 Atk Spiritomb Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 186-219 (48.4 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage, I wasnt able to find a single way to reliably even hard ct this one mon on stall, and thats honestly insane. Like I was delving into colbur shenanigans and counter skarm in desperation, even looking at msab + shed, just to try and make my stall remotely viable and thats super sucky. Like ive come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with this mon without delving into ridiculously niche ct's that are useless in every other matchup, is to basically sack and revenge.... which doesn't work on stall.
So overall, ursaring might not be the best mon in the meta, but its certainly up there with the most limiting mons team building wise imo, and any single mon which can cause this much of an issue should be banned imho. I was gonna mention a couple other things but honestly jrdn made all those points better, and hes actually played the meta more than me too, so I won't embarrass myself any more than I already have talking about a meta which I have 0 experience in. Was just tryna contribute positively to this meta before omwc, cos id rather not see a bunch of complaining about how a week came down to TS which is too unbalanced and uncompetitive. We have more than enough complaining in oms as is.
If you really want to try him out, he's not completely trash. With max investment in speed + the Quick Feet boost, he out-speeds base 150 mons. That's a pretty great speed tier to be in, and his 160 Attack is obviously solid. Play rough can handle things like Throh and Intimidate is a fantastic ability. He's a pretty serviceable mon, so go ahead and give him a try.Has anyone made a good Granbull set... will my big dumb dog ever find its purpose