Metagame Tier Shift

[VannAccessible]

I got to thinking, wouldn’t it be a completely silly exercise to attempt a VR at this point in the meta when there are so many viable options? …The answer is “yes.”

Anyway, after some collaborating on Discord, here it is!

My meta observations

:Ho-oh: Ho-Oh is the most consistent, dominant and centralizing defensive force, so sweepers that can roll through it are good. Every team needs some kind of burn absorb, be it a Water or Fire type that can tank Brave Bird and Earthquake (Incineroar, Milotic, Rotom), Gliscor, Shed Skin users like Sandaconda, RestTalk, or Heal Bell.

:Kleavor::ting-Lu::incineroar::Goodra-Hisui::Muk-alola: Balance is the best playstyle. Hazards and Knock Off become especially strong, as Ho-Oh hates rocks invalidating its bulk. Hazard Stack is also strong by virtue of the fact that hazard removal is challenging. Kleavor is amazing at getting rocks up while applying offensive pressure. Ting-Lu is the best Spiker, as Espeon has no business switching in on it.

:Jolteon::Raikou::Kleavor::Basculegion: VoltTurn is also very hard to answer, as Electric mons like Jolteon, Raikou, Rotom, and even the more niche Vikavolt and Electrode-Hisui can hit their Ground type switch ins for good damage, and pivot on everything else. The answers to VoltTurn are very few and mu fishy, the best options being Ting-Lu, Water Absorb Clodsire, and more niche options like Toedscruel and Volt Absorb Lanturn.

:ho-oh::vaporeon::Gliscor::Muk-alola::Jirachi::Sandaconda::Klawf:
Going back to Ho-Oh, but also in general, status is a great progress maker. Answers are a must, yet RestTalk is inconsistent and Heal Bell Chansey takes hazard chip and is otherwise passive.

:deoxys-speed::sneasel-Hisui::bisharp::Necrozma-Dusk-Mane::Torterra:
HO seems pretty strong. Torterra and NDM are the best set up sweepers, both invalidating all the Unaware monsters with its STABs, The defensive answers to them are pretty niche, outside Brambleghast and perhaps Bronzong and Orthworm, who do not have reliable healing, and Skarmory and Corviknight, who are niche.

:indeedee::thwackey::Groudon::Tornadus::calyrex-ice: The various other offense archetypes all mu fish into one another in a circular roundabout. They’re all alright in their own ways, but bump into each other, and especially Balance.

:Skarmory::Chansey: Stall isn’t good. You cannot reasonably account for all the other offensive options, while also accounting for Taunt, Trick, hazards spam, etc.

Take it with a grain of salt, but I feel like this is a good starting point. Hopefully it’s a helpful resource for people to consider their options when making teams and can be added to and refined as things develop. :)

Discord’s Early Viability Rankings​

S-Tier:
S- Rank:
:Ho-Oh: Ho-Oh

A-Tier:
A+ Rank:
:Alomomola: Alomomola
:Bisharp: Bisharp
:Brambleghast: Brambleghast
:Cyclizar: Cyclizar
:Deoxys-Attack: Deoxys-Attack
:Espeon: Espeon
:Eternatus: Eternatus
:Incineroar: Incineroar
:Goodra-Hisui: Goodra-Hisui
:Kleavor: Kleavor
:Muk-Alola: Muk-Alola
:Pawmot: Pawmot
:Rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash
:Regidrago: Regidrago
:Slither Wing: Slither Wing
:Torterra: Torterra
:ting-Lu: Ting-Lu
:Vaporeon: Vaporeon

A Rank:
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:Basculegion: Basculegion
:Bellibolt: Bellibolt
:Calyrex-Ice: Calyrex-Ice
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed
:Drifblim: Drifblim
:Giratina-Origin: Giratina-Origin
:Gliscor: Gliscor
:Groudon: Groudon
:Hitmonlee: Hitmonlee
:Honchkrow: Honchkrow
:Indeedee: Indeedee
:Jolteon: Jolteon
:Klawf: Klawf
:lunala: Lunala
:Mamoswine: Mamoswine
:Palossand: Palossand
:Raikou: Raikou
:Sandaconda: Sandaconda
:Scrafty: Scrafty
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail
:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar

A- Rank:
:Arcanine: Arcanine
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao
:Cinderace: Cinderace
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr
:Cloyster: Cloyster
:Diancie: Diancie
:emboar: Emboar
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Gallade: Gallade
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo
:Glastrier: Glastrier
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Hoopa: Hoopa
:Jirachi: Jirachi
:komala: Komala
:Landorus: Landorus
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:Milotic: Milotic
:Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Ogerpon-Cornerstone
:Oricorio: Oricorio
:Orthworm: Orthworm
:Polteageist: Polteageist
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:Ribombee: Ribombee
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom
:Spiritomb: Spiritomb
:Slowbro: Slowbro
:Sneasel: Sneasel
:Sneasel-Hisui: Sneasel-Hisui
:Thwackey: Thwackey
:Tatsugiri: Tatsugiri
:volcanion: Volcanion
:Ursaring: Ursaring
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar

B-Tier (or lower)

B-Tier (Or lower):
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:arceus: Arceus-Ice
:Braviary-Hisui: Braviary-Hisui
:Bronzong: Bronzong
:Chandelure: Chandelure
:Chansey: Chansey
:chesnaught: Chesnaught
:Cinccino: Cinccino
:Coalossal: Coalossal
:Cobalion: Cobalion
:Clodsire: Clodsire
:Cramorant: Cramorant
:Delphox: Delphox
:dondozo: Dondozo
:Dipplin: Dipplin
:ditto: Ditto
:Dudunsparce: Dudunsparce
:Hariyama: Hariyama
:Heracross: Heracross
:Hydrapple: Hydrapple
:Electrode-Hisui: Electrode-Hisui
:Forretress: Forretress
:Florges: Florges
:Frosmoth: Frosmoth
:flutter mane: Flutter Mane
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Gurdurr: Gurdurr
:houndstone: Houndstone
:Kingambit: Kingambit
:Klefki: Klefki
:Magearna: Magearna
:Maushold: Maushold
:Metagross: Metagross
:mew: Mew
:mienshao: Mienshao
:Milotic: Milotic
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu
:Minior: Minior
:Mudsdale: Mudsdale
:Naclstack: Naclstack
:Persian-alola: Persian-Alola
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z
:Primeape: Primeape
:Quagsire: Quagsire
:Rampardos: Rampardos
:Regigigas: Regigigas
:Registeel: Registeel
:Reuniclus: Reuniclus
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat
:Rhydon: Rhydon
:rhyperior: Rhyperior
:Sandslash: Sandslash
:Sandy shocks: Sandy Shocks
:Slowking: Slowking
:Skarmory: Skarmory
:Staraptor: Staraptor
:Suicune: Suicune
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:sylveon: Sylveon
:Talonflame: Talonflame
:Toedscruel: Toedscruel
:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:Tinkatuff: Tinkatuff
:Typhlosion-Hisui: Typhlosion-Hisui
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna
:Uxie: Uxie
:vikavolt: Vikavolt

Feedback is encouraged! If anyone wants to attempt to sort the B tier into 3 levels, have at it. I'm not comfortable making those distinctions yet.)

 

[StompyStomps]

I see no one using Minior, and it has the capability to be a major threat to Ho-oh if used right.
Shooting Stars (Minior) @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

here are some calcs to back it up

+2 252+ Atk Tera Flying Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Ho-Oh: 406-478 (97.8 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Tera Flying Minior Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 1108-1308 (266.9 - 315.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[AnthonyMS05]

Has anyone tried using Snorlax? This set I've been using has been great for me so far.
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

 

[VannAccessible]

Let's talk about hazard stack.

After experimenting with a bunch of different playstyles to mixed results, I also realized that hazard removal is challenging in this format. I built a Hazard Stack Balance team that I’d like to share as an example. I’ve found it easy to pilot, and quite consistent against most playstyles. (Also, the whimsical nicknames are important on such teams, as they further demoralize the opponent. Heh. ;D )

If anyone has any feedback on how to improve it, I’d like to hear it!

The team:

:ting-Lu::alomomola::gholdengo::brambleghast::incineroar::pawmot:

The Rundown

:sv/ting-lu:
Where Da Beef (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Throat Chop
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

I started the team off with Ting-Lu, as I wanted a hazard setter that threatened Espeon. Ting also offers phazing to help the team check set up, Subs, Trick Room, Wish passing and Unburden, and is a durable check to Psyspam. Speed is minimized to further assist the Trick Room mu.

:sv/Alomomola:
Gone Fishin’ (Alomomola) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Flip Turn

I knew the team would need some form of longevity to make the hazard chip count, a status absorber, and having another Knock absorber sounded nice, so I added the Wish Fish.

You can feel your opponent’s heart breaking when it passes Ting-Lu and Incineroar Wishes.

:sv/Gholdengo:
Dangerously Cheesy (Gholdengo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Trick
- Recover

Scarf Dengo was added next to counter Defog and Rapid/Mortal Spin, as well as being a primary status absorber.

Trick Scarf isn’t super fast in this meta for general revenging, but it is an amazing for neutralizing one threat per game against every playstyle lacking Sticky Hold or a signature item (Giratina, etc). Trick Scarf is also particularly important for winning against bulky wincons. Trick Scarf also grants tremendous leverage to play around, especially in conjunction with Alomom’s Protect.

Besides STABs, I considered Focus Blast for the last slot, but I hate misses. Recover is the optimal fourth move, as Dengo’s defensive profile is great post Tricking away Scarf, and it gives Dengo some longevity to help the team outlast the opponent a bit more while hazard damage racks up, without having to rely on Wishes.

:sv/Brambleghast:
Get Bramblin’ (Brambleghast) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap

Next I wanted hazard control of my own, as to win the hazard war, as well as a second spin blocker for the Ground-type spinners Dengo struggles against like Great Tusk, Excadrill, Sandslash, etc. I had Drifblim in this slot at one point, but came to find I was struggling with certain Substitute users Ting-Lu struggled with, and disliked Defog undoing my hazard progress. Thankfully, Brambleghast excels at all this, while still being a surprisingly durable defensive wall with Strength Sap. It’s also generally better at walling threatening Grasses with Rock coverage like Torterra and Ogerpon-C.

Bramble can also become a win con with some speed boosts, as Power Whip his like a truck. Shadow Ball is preferred over Poltergeist as we’ll be spamming Knock Off, because this is hazard stack. Shadow Ball ensures opposing Ghost types always have to be wary about switching in to Bramble to spin block it.

:sv/Incineroar:
Cin City (Incineroar) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Now for the star of the show! Incin is the team’s secret sauce and does a ton for this team. Being an Intimidate and Parting Shot user, it makes the team much harder to take out on the offensive end, and its Special Wall, helping counter both Sun and PsyTerrain.

He’s the all important Knock Off spreader, ensuring boots will not be able to ignore hazards in the long run. If you’ve Trick Scarfed something with Dengo early game, it is usually beneficial to hold off on Knock Off and use that vulnerability to either lay your hazards, or otherwise get in the team’s last member to start breaking. It’s especially notable that Incineroar threatens Ho-Oh with Knock while being burn immune, taking a ton of pressure off Alomomola, and it helps Ting-Lu contain Espeon running Fairy coverage, and otherwise being an amazing Hatterene counter.

Flare Blitz is your power move for deleting stuff.

Finally, I like Fake Out for taking out weakened fast threats, and helping to stall out weather/terrain and Trick Room turns.

Five mons in and with the half exception of Dengo, these guys are all defensive. Why is this not considered a stall team, again? Well, it’s time to meet the final boss…

:sv/Pawmot:
Pawnch Burger (Pawmot) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch

Once the opponent is sufficiently weakened by chip, hazards, Rocky Helmet, burns or is otherwise nullified with Trick Scarf or debuffs, Pawmot comes in off a slow pivot, sack or hard switch and just clobbers everything.

With 145 base attack, 135 speed, a crazy strong STAB combination on top of Ice Punch for unresisted coverage, and Iron Fist, and Life Orb, AND Mach Punch for priority, beating Pawmot in the endgame with a weakened team is incredibly difficult. Ice Punch oneshotting Gliscor is notable, as Gliscor is naturally resistant to being worn down by hazard stack schenanigans.

Pawmot also is notable for being a hazard removal prevention option midgame, simply by virtue of good positioning and its immediate offensive pressure. Coalosol and Tatsugiri don’t want to switch in, and Mandibuzz has no business staying in on this thing.

Is hazard stack good? I'd say so! I went 9-0 with this, before beginning to runinto some hard matchups, most of which were winnable in theory. It seems more consistent that pure offense which is always an mu thing. Is it broken? Not in my opnion, no. There's plenty of stuff that beats it hard. It rolls low ladder, but when I got this up to mid 1300s and 1400s, I started ruining into counters.

:necrozma-dusk mane::calyrex-ice: The worst mu. Bulky hard offense with boots. These guys do not permit you to stick around long enough to rack up hazard chip, and Pawmot cant take them down 1V1.

:Wo-Chien: I got fairly high up before realizing I was massively weak to Sub Wo-Chien, as neither Whirlwind Ting-Lu or Brambleghast can deal with it. It’s fine if you can Trick Scarf it but it’s hiding behind a Substitute you are getting Knock’d, Seeded, Ruined.

:tornadus: Manual Rain is probably the worst mu, but I actually haven’t countered any teams. Seems pretty rare since Sun and Snow are just better. In theory, the best options are to lead Rocks or Trick Scarf, stall for turns with Protect and Fake Out as needed, sack Ting-Lu to Wave Crash to take advantage of the recoil, and otherwise make smart plays with Alomo and Bramble, Pawmot.

:muk::swalot::gastrodon: In theory, Sticky Hold balance/stall + Bootspam should really trouble teams like this, but I didn’t see any.

:Tatsugiri: Tatsugiri is a threatening spinner that cannot be blocked well with the Ghosts, and has to be carefully played around, as it can come in for free on Alomomola. Dengo can tank a Hydro Pump or Surf from decent health, and outspeed to hit it with a Shadow Ball, which puts it into priority range, at which point you can kill it with Pawmot regardless of if it spin boosted or not.

:Coalossal: Coalossal is another spinner than cannot be spun blocked by the Ghosts, but it gets played around with Alomo, lacks healing and absolutely hates being Trick Scarfed or Knocked. It cannot be one shot by CC from full, so it needs to be chipped well and can also Flame Body burn Pawmot, so it’s best to deal with it with other means.

:talonflame::Giratina-Origin: :hawlucha: :weezing-galar: These guys can all can Defog on the team with their abilities or by just threatening Dengo, but generally still lose to Dengo and or lose to Pawnot in the endgame.

:bisharp::zapdos-galar: Defiant users mean Incineroar has to be cautious about switching in or using Parting Shot. Bisharp isn’t so bad as it loses to Pawmot, either by getting one shot by CC or getting Trick Scarfed and then losing to Mach Punch with a bit of chip. Gapdos is Spikes immune and rock neutral, but is usually choice locked and so can be played around with Protect and letting it chip itself down with Brave Bird on Alomo and Ting-Lu, before losing to either Dengo, Fake Out or Mach Punch.

Games:
Tour Game Final vs PsySpam
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2388740017
Vs #15 on ladder balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382592934-nvn3h7jp3k1pphm7bt27of6gf2h5t4npw
Vs Espeon + Foretress + Excadrill Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382464732
Vs Court Change Raboot (Pawmot sweep)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382457403
Vs Ho-Oh + GWeezing Stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2381957261-6iy0g9in2fova46ucxf8mlj6o86ft90pw
Vs Talonflame + Taunt Gyarados (First loss)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382321390

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Is hazard stack good? I'd say so! I went 9-0 with this, before beginning to runinto some hard matchups, most of which were winnable in theory. It seems more consistent that pure offense which is always an mu thing. Is it broken? Not in my opnion, no. There's plenty of stuff that beats it hard. It rolls low ladder, but when I got this up to mid 1300s and 1400s, I started ruining into counters.

Click to collapse...

Every single supposed "check" you list down here are either difficult to slot on to normal teams or can be MU fished by different variations of hazard stack. Calyrex-Ice and Neocrozma-Dusk-Mane can both be walled by Skarmory and threatened with burns from Slowbro, Vaporeon, Skeledirge, etc. Wo-Chien I will admit is a valid threat to hazard stack in general, but Cyclizar can partially counter it with Knock and U-Turn. Rain is just a team MU fish and is very bad. I fail to see how Boots spam performs well against Knock spam since you have easy methods to maintain your longevity and can spread status. Tatsugiri is very, very bad and only viable because it is a spinner that has a decent special attack, and Coalossal is niche and hates its own typing. Finally, of the 4 Defoggers you listed, Hawlucha is fake, Giratina-O will keep getting chipped by Stealth Rock, Talonflame is extremely bad and lacks bulk, and Weezing-Galar lacks proper recovery and needs support in order to work.

Why am I so against you? Because I attempted to make a cancerous hazard stack stall team that I probably will not run anymore due to how frustrating it is to play with and play against.

https://pokepast.es/509dbcbf072d6007
Ignore the Umbreon if you dislike it; it is mostly just a filler because I have no idea what to put there as a final special wall.

:ho-oh:
Generic chicken and great progress maker.

:skarmory:
Hazard setter and main wall.

:scream tail:
Wishpasser, hazard setter, and potential anti-staller with Psychic Noise.

:dusclops:
Trapper and status user to tank down setup sweepers if it is in the right position.

:cyclizar:
Primary hazard remover and Knocker.

:umbreon:
Random special wall that used to be Lugia, Wo-Chien, Florges, or Blissey.

Games:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2383092010
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2383086301?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2383080184?p2

I mainly lost if Skarmory was chipped and then unable to tank hits, Dusclops missing Will-O-Wisp, Scream Tail being unable to stop setup sweepers, Cyclizar dying, or my special walls dying. From my experience, any team that did not have Cyclizar eventually got massively chipped by hazards or just swept me. I don't see hazard stack as healthy at all.

 

[IloftheKs]

I feel that this tier struggles heavily with hazards. Corviknight is basically gone, and since most hazard setters are Rock or have Rock coverage, Flying Defoggers such as Mandibuzz and Altaria (no idea how good this is) are only able to safely come in on other Pokemon, which then they either get Knocked Off or get set up on while Defogging. The presence of these Rock Pokemon is amplified by everyone’s fear/hatred of Ho-Oh, meaning that Flying Defoggers face numerous hostile threats. The only other real options are Weezing(-Galar) and Giratina(-O) which have poor recovery (although Wisp can be extremely annoying). Weezing(-Galar) split between using Neutralizing Gas to harass Ho-Oh and Levitate to avoid being hit by stray Earthquakes, and Giratina is forced to either use a defensive set and be unable to threaten Ho-Oh or an offensive set and get 2HKOed by Rock Pokemon.

What about Rapid Spinners? Well, Great Tusk, Iron Treads, and Quaquaval suffer massively from not receiving any boosts (and Treads just loses to Ho-Oh), leaving only frailer options such as Tentacruel, Toedscruel, Brambleghast, and Avalugg (only good on stall which isn’t viable), all of which have poor defensive stats and don’t resist powerful Rock moves besides Toedscruel.

Knock Off usage is everywhere (again, partially because of Ho-Oh) from Muk-Alola to Cyclizar, crippling Magic Guard Pokemon such as Clefairy and preventing Flying Defoggers from switching in again.

The only real counter I see to hazard stack are setup sweepers, such as Shell Smashers.

Click to collapse...

I'm still in low ELO so my word won't mean much, but I don't think you should count out both excadrill and sandslash as spinners. Drill I find is the better pokemon but sandslash does feel like a better spinner more often, as with drill I feel I need it more strongly as a defensive switch-in than a spinner and I'm forced to make a choice. This is my favourite team using drill: https://pokepast.es/2f544b45b6115fd2

The team was built around braviary-hisui who actually feels like the worst mon on the team funnily enough. The real all-stars on the team have consistently been mienshao, vaporeon, and mandibuzz. Excadrill and Magearna have been either okay or crucial, leaving braviary-h mostly feeling quite mediocre. I'm honestly shocked at how good mienshao has been on the team and while I do miss the added power that comes with life orb it's the team's revenge killer, lead, and speed control.

New edit 2: More mienshao propaganda. This pokemon with a choice scarf and a jolly nature has consistently been successful. It's faster than many mons at +1 speed thanks to its new 125 speed stat, hits pretty hard off of a base 145 attack stat. It consistently claims KOs, clicks knock off, or pivots out at little risk. Yes it has some competition among fast pivots like zapdos-galar and pawmot, but they don't have regenerator to shrug off hazards.

In my limited amount of testing, I've found that some of my hardest matchups include vaporeon, hitmonlee, and HO structures with lots of spamming the same type move like sand ground spam and trick room. Terrain is also a very difficult MU as psychic terrain is pretty common, but the rare electric terrain is also difficult. Further edits underway: this team is quite weak to offense in general but specifically HO. Screens, terrains, and even webs are not fun to match into. The team is probably going in the dump or undergoing some reconstruction.

If anyone's interested in improving the team I'd love to be a part of it, and if anyone has a mienshao or braviary-h team they like let me know!

Edit: I just found out how to look up my record so with this team I'm 12-10. I know that doesn't look very good when you compare it to these ladder demons posting top 5 rank teams, but for me this is pretty good considering I actually made the team, didn't steal it and it was the first team I built.

 

[Spear Hero]

Beginner Friendly Team​

So I'm pretty new to Tier Shift but I climbed the ladder pretty quick with a straightforward team that I felt would be nice to share since at least from my usage of it has tools to tackle any scenario while also giving a clean basis to figure out how other teams play as you have no gimmick besides damage and momentum. (Pivot move spam is real)

https://pokepast.es/adca114f1e76e7c7

• :Kleavor:Kleavor:
  

  Kleavor

  Let's start with the most obvious member here in their role. Kleavor is a hazard setter and one who keep offensive pressure whilst doing it. Your goal with Kleavor is to get up rocks and trade with good damage while knowing when to head out. A common set is choice scarf but I'm not a fun as it heavily incentivizes you to lead with Kleavor even when it otherwise isn't a good idea, this is best used to batter and bruise the enemy for your teammates and pick up some clean ko's on people expecting a frailer build.
• :Basculegion: Basculegion:
  
  Basculegion

  I won't sugar coat it, Adaptability + Choice Band + Wave Crash. All jokes aside this is an extremely straight forward set we run 3 useful water moves and phantom force for ghost stab. If they don't have a water immunity they simply cannot take a Wave Crash period and you still have to respect flip turn and aqua jet at all times. Phantom force is here for 2 reasons second stab and aura it's really funny when people click protect die and forfeit.
• :Incineroar: Incineroar:
  
  Incineraor

  Incineroar is an excellent defensive pivot who can also keep pressure in various ways. It's got very standard yet effective moves like knock off and wisp which always make progress and parting shot making it very easy to switch in the rest of the team to deal massive damage. Or if Incineroar is on it's last legs it can very commonly take out another pokemon with it via Flare Blitz. In a format with so many strong threats (Ho-Oh, Chien-Pao, etc) The defensive profile of a buffed Incineroar is greatly appreciated.
• :Torterra: Torterra:
  
  Torterra

  Here we have Torterra the sole member on the team without a pivoting move. It's a loaded dice shell smash set and although on many teams bringing it in would be a challenge with the entire rest of the team being able to pivot freely it is often you'll find multiple chances to bring Torterra in safely. Like any good shell smash mon Torterra has the ability to instantly end games on the spot if positioned correctly but better than that yet it can often contribute even without it's defining sweep as it's stab moves in combination with rock blast can often threaten instant ko's on many frailer pokemon and it's guaranteed every team will have at least one mon who Torterra just kills. It also provides us a powder immunity and eclectic immunity don't always play like this is your ace just another cannon in the arsenal.
• :Komala: Komala:
  
  Komala

  Komala is definitely the most out there pick on this team but I'll explain it's purpose. Firstly Comatose there's no denying the utility of simply being immune to all status and it is almost always useful. Then comes it's typing as a normal type to grant the team a ghost immunity and it's move pool works perfect as it provides rapid spin, good consistent stab, sucker punch priority and u-turn pivoting. Out of everyone on the team Komala is almost certainly the most changeable but I am a firm believer in it with it's good bulk and damage ratio giving utility to the team while maintaining momentum.
• :Raikou: Raikou:
  
  Raikou

  Last but not least is Raikou, this is the fastest pokemon on the team and no matter what the matchup is it contributes greatly. It's specs to catch more 2 hit kos and be a great late game cleaner alongside consistent through the game in punching large holes with it's consistent coverage in scald and aura sphere. Inner Focus also grants it an immunity to fake out flinches which although rare can be that element of surprise to win you a game from time to time.

I hope that little overview explained the logic behind each member of the team and hope the team can help any new players get a handle of the tier. I heavily incentivize to try changing moves, EV, or even entire pokemon to make the team you as an individual truly enjoy playing. This team is how I enjoy playing as it has a focus on positioning in a very straight forward way that let's you adapt to any playstyle but it's not perfect and with that I close this post by sending you all my best wishes and hope every game win or lose will be fun for you all.

 

[Arnesh Sengupta]

I got to thinking, wouldn’t it be a completely silly exercise to attempt a VR at this point in the meta when there are so many viable options? …The answer is “yes.”

Anyway, after some collaborating on Discord, here it is!

My observation of the meta is that Ho-Oh is the most consistent, dominant and centralizing defensive force, so sweepers that can roll through it are good, and hazards and Knock Off become especially strong. The various offense archetypes all mu fish into one another in a circular roundabout. Stall isn’t good, as you cannot reasonably account for all the offensive options, while also accounting for Taunt, Trick, hazards spam, etc.

Take it with a grain of salt, but I feel like this is a good starting point. Hopefully it’s a helpful resource for people to consider their options when making teams and can be added to and refined as things develop. :)

Discord’s Early Viability Rankings​

S-Tier:
S- Rank:
:Ho-Oh: Ho-Oh

A-Tier:
A+ Rank:
:Alomomola: Alomomola
:Bisharp: Bisharp
:Deoxys-Attack: Deoxys-Attack
:Drifblim: Drifblim
:Espeon: Espeon
:Eternatus: Eternatus
:Incineroar: Incineroar
:Goodra-Hisui: Goodra-Hisui
:Kleavor: Kleavor
:Necrozma-Dusk Mane: Necrozma-Dusk Mane
:Muk-Alola: Muk-Alola
:Pawmot: Pawmot
:Regidrago: Regidrago
:Torterra: Torterra
:ting-Lu: Ting-Lu
:Vaporeon: Vaporeon

A Rank:
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:Basculegion: Basculegion
:Bellibolt: Bellibolt
:Brambleghast: Brambleghast
:Calyrex-Ice: Calyrex-Ice
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed
:Giratina-Origin: Giratina-Origin
:Gliscor: Gliscor
:Groudon: Groudon
:Hitmonlee: Hitmonlee
:Honchkrow: Honchkrow
:Indeedee: Indeedee
:Jolteon: Jolteon
:Klawf: Klawf
:Mamoswine: Mamoswine
:Raikou: Raikou
:Rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash
:Sandaconda: Sandaconda
:Scrafty: Scrafty
:Scream Tail: Scream Tail
:Slither Wing: Slither Wing
:Ursaring: Ursaring
:Wo-Chien: Wo-Chien
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar

A- Rank:
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao
:Crawdaunt: Crawdaunt
:Conkeldurr: Conkeldurr
:Clodsire: Clodsire
:Cloyster: Cloyster
:Diancie: Diancie
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Gallade: Gallade
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo
:Glastrier: Glastrier
:Grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:Hoopa: Hoopa
:Jirachi: Jirachi
:komala: Komala
:Landorus: Landorus
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:Milotic: Milotic
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Ogerpon-Cornerstone
:Oricorio: Oricorio
:Orthworm: Orthworm
:Polteageist: Polteageist
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:Regigigas: Regigigas
:Ribombee: Ribombee
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom
:Spiritomb: Spiritomb
:Slowbro: Slowbro
:Sneasel: Sneasel
:Sneasel-Hisui: Sneasel-Hisui
:Thwackey: Thwackey
:Tatsugiri: Tatsugiri
:volcanion: Volcanion
:Weezing-Galar: Weezing-Galar

B-Tier (Or lower):
:Arcanine: Arcanine
:Braviary-Hisui: Braviary-Hisui
:Bronzong: Bronzong
:Chandelure: Chandelure
:Chansey: Chansey
:chesnaught: Chesnaught
:Cinccino: Cinccino
:Coalossal: Coalossal
:coballion: coballion
:Cramorant: Cramorant
:Cyclizar: Cyclizar
:Dondozo: Dondozo
:Dipplin: Dipplin
:ditto: Ditto
:Dudunsparce: Dudunsparce
:Hariyama: Hariyama
:Heracross: Heracross
:Electrode-Hisui: Electrode-Hisui
:Forretress: Forretress
:Florges: Florges
:Frosmoth: Frosmoth
:flutter mane: Flutter Mane
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Gurdurr: Gurdurr
:Klefki: Klefki
:Magearna: Magearna
:Maushold: Maushold
:Metagross: Metagross
:mienshao: Mienshao
:Milotic: Milotic
:Mimikyu: Mimikyu
:Minior: Minior
:Mudsdale: Mudsdale
:Muk: Muk
:Naclstack: Naclstack
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Porygon-Z: Porygon-Z
:Primeape: Primeape
:Quagsire: Quagsire
:Rampardos: Rampardos
:Regigigas: Regigigas
:Registeel: Registeel
:Reuniclus: Reuniclus
:Rotom-Heat: Rotom-Heat
:Rhydon: Rhydon
:Sandslash: Sandslash
:Sandy shocks: Sandy Shocks
:Skarmory: Skarmory
:Staraptor: Staraptor
:Suicune: Suicune
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Talonflame: Talonflame
:Toedscruel: Toedscruel
:tentacruel: tentacruel
:Tinkatuff: Tinkatuff
:Typhlosion-Hisui: Typhlosion-Hisui
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna
:Uxie: Uxie
:vikavolt: Vikavolt

Feedback is encouraged! If anyone wants to attempt to sort the B tier into 3 levels, have at it. I'm not comfortable making those distinctions yet.)

Click to collapse...

Emboar is so strong and one of the best revenge killers in the tier with excellent coverage threatening a lot of meta picks. It even has Wild Charge for Ho-Oh/Gyarados. At least A- for my boy.

 

[BriefMarigold4]

Okay, I've been trying teams around. Mine is definitely far from perfect and needs some work arounds, so I won't post it quite yet, but I want to talk about some of the mons that I've found to remain the most in my teambuilding.

Snorlax

Snorlax is by far one of the most underrated mons rn. It's not perfect and doesn't fit in every team, but the jobs it fills are very valuable.
This Pokemon feels like it was MADE for the metagame, as it already has a giganting HP stat which doesn't care about not getting a boost, and with the HP to Defenses ratio being so high, it benefits a LOT more from the 30 extra points in bulk compared to Pokemon whose defenses are higher than their HP like, say, Scrafty or Diancie. The 30 extra points in Attack are also felt heavier, as it goes from a somewhat usable attack stat to a great attack stat, compared to Pokemon like Hoopa or Glastrier who go from having extrme offense stats to still just extreme offense stats.
Right off the bat, it's an excellent special tank, and a check to Ghost, Fire and Ice types (the people running H-Typh, Frosslass, Ceruledge and Skeledirge are crying in a corner rn). Rest allows it to act as a status absorber, and with Body Slam it can act as a paralysis spreader itself, but Double-Edge is a nice option to deal high damage even without Curse boosts, and requiring less boosts overall to start dishing out the nuke hits.


As for the 4th move, it has plenty of options, which may depend on the role it wants to fill in a team. The top 3 are: Crunch, which allows Snorlax to handle Ghosts more effectively, but makes it rely on STAB to deal with Ice and Fire types, and makes it tedious to deal with Steel and Rock types; Heat Crash, which hits Ice types while also handling Steel types, makes Snorlax a bit worse at handling Ghost, Fire and especially Rock types; Earthquake, hits Fire types while also dealing with Steels and Rocks, but makes Snorlax have a hard time at dealing with Ice and Ghost types. Of course there are other niche, more specialized options: Rock Slide hitting both Fire and Ice types for big damage, namely the meta's top tier Ho-Oh, but leaves you exponentially weak to Steels; Heavy Slam hits Ice types and handles Rock types, namely being able to get rid of Flutter Mean immediately, but leaves you unable to hit Steel types again; Hammer Arm hits Steel, Rock and Ice types for excellent damage, but it does make Snorlax rely on STAB for fire types and makes it completely unable to touch Ghost types.
Of course, there are specific Pokemon to consider, such as Flash Fire Chandelure/Chandelure rendering STAB + Heat Crash unusable; Giratina-O, Drifblim, Oricoro-Sensu, the other Levitate Ghost types and just any other Ghost with Air Balloon wall STAB + Earthquake effortlessly. Not one move is perfect, which is what makes Snorlax kind of suck into matchups and constantly wish it was running another move, which is why it's important to think about what you want Snorlax to do in your team, what Pokemons you want it to hit and what you can afford losing to.

It rocks the 6th highest special bulk in the tier accounting for abilities and Eviolite users, being even specially bulkier than Ting-Lu. It's beaten by Chansey, Blissey, Munchlax, Ice Scales Frosmoth and Regice in that order, but the former two might as well be considered one Pokemon, and the other 3 are so non-existant they reside in a plane of existence below our own. Leftovers allows it to stay in the field for longer periods of time and have an easier time setting up, but needs heavy hazard removal support to continously switch into the attackers it is supposed to check. HDB is another choice, as it doesn't need to worry as much about hazards on the field, and it is bulky enough to not need Leftovers to deal with most special attackers. Assault Vest and Choice Band are memes; without Regenerator, pivoting or any form of utility move besides Body Slam and not having access to Self-Destruct anymore, it simply doesn't have what it takes to pull those sets off, and the extra 30 points in Attack don't make up for those downsides.

Arcanine

Arcanine feels like it's constantly overshadowed by Ho-Oh taking the Fire type slot in most teams, but this good pup has a lot of things going for it. It is the bulkiest Intimidate Pokemon on both sides of the offense, as well as the fastest, who has access to recovery. It ties with Salamence in Special Attack and loses to it in Physical Attack, but it has a way stronger Physical STAB in Fire Blitz to compensate, as well as a more consistent special STAB. Mono Fire is honestly a good defensive type in this meta, and with access to Morning Sun to keep itself healthy, Will-O-Wisp to put Physical attackers in check, and Roar to phaze out setup Pokemon, it can most definitely carry its own weight. Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp allow it to put plenty of bulk in special defense, making it a good special walk and an excellent mixed tank. Sadly it doesn't reach into the 130 speed tier, but 125 is nothing to scoff at, allowing it to click on Wisp or fire off a STAB more easily.

Defense is not all that it can do, however. Curse has an easier time working now thanks to the extra special bulk, and the extra attack making Extreme Speed hurt a lot more. It can also just go 3 attacks + Morning Sun / Howl, with Flare Blitz being the main STAB, Wild Charge to hit Ho-Oh, and either Crunch to hit Giratina and Drifblim or Extreme Speed to hit Pokemon faster than you. Close Combat is also good at hitting H-Goodra, Incineroar, Scrafty, Ting-Lu and Snorlax. Choice Band is like, decent, although it feels like its main job is being an Extreme Speed killer rather than being an Intimidate support or a heavy hitter, and it is objectively outclassed by Rayquaza and Deoxys-Attack in that regard.

Necrozma Dusk Mane

Yes this thing is an Uber, but oh my god is it a good one, easily the second best Uber in the tier right now. It's a swiss-army knife that can do it all and so allow itself to find use in nearly any team you want. Full physical wall, Defensive Swords Dance, Defensive Dragon Dance, Offensive Dragon Dance, Trick Room Swords Dance, IronMind Stored Power, sometimes even Choice Band, with great utility moves like Knock Off and Stealth Rock, and not being able to beat its setup sets with Unaware thanks to Photon Geyser and Sunsteel Strike ignoring abilities (and Stored Power straight up not caring anyway). This thing just does it all: Stall, Semi-Stall, Bulky Offense, Hyper Offense, Balance, Fat Balance, it can fit into any and all teams.

My favorite set overall is defensive Dragon Dance with Photon Geyser and Covert Cloak, being able to set up on Ho-Oh of all things, especially if it's the last Pokemon in the team. Prism Armor is just such a great ability to have with this typing and bulk.

Overall the meta is fun, but I do have to say that it does feel like a few Ubers dominate the tier a bit too much, mainly Eternatus, NDM and primarily Ho-Oh, which kind of sucks as the tier should be more about low tier Pokemon dominating instead.

 

[NotZzephyr]

How long until everybody is running ting-lu, ndm, ho-oh, eternatus on every team

I hate that damn kfc bird

 

[spray226]

Flapple @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Grav Apple
- Outrage

Guys Hustle Flapple Choice Band has almost 1000 attack without set-ups y'all should try

 

[InkyDarkBird]

I don't consider it balanced that a few Ubers are so centralizing in a metagame whose premise is that "low tier dwellers" can "finally compete alongside their OU brethren as equals" when you take into account that only ~6 OU Pokemon (Great Tusk, Ting-Lu, Gliscor, Donbozo, Alomomola, Gholdengo) are maybe viable. Almost every archetype or team has at least 1 clear, powerful option for choosing an Uber: Stall has Giratina, balance has Giratina-O and Ho-Oh, Sun has Groudon, Psyspam has Deoxys-Attack, HO has Eternatus and Flutter Mane, Bulky Offense has Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Trick Room has Calyrex-Ice, and then you have random MU fishy Ubers with sky-high stats such as Kyurem-White and Kyurem-Black.

I believe that Ubers are not glue Pokemon whatsoever due to how constraining they are on the teambuilder. I want to bring back the example of Ho-Oh: Do you think there are any viable special attackers that lack a method to supereffectively (this excludes Psyshock too) Ho-Oh? I have only come up with 3 answers: Typhlosion(-Hisui) and Salazzle. KaenSoul mentioned a few checks such as Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat, and Sandaconda, but all 3 of those Pokemon are bulky, slow, defensive checks that either cannot deal enough damage back to Ho-Oh or can't do much else against other common Pokemon (Florges, Skarmory, Ting-Lu, Chesnaught, Chansey, Fezandipiti, Weezing-Galar, Gastrodon, etc). Most offensive Pokemon also cannot switch into Ho-Oh as physical attackers hate burns and Brave Bird off of 130 Atk still hits very hard. Yes, hazard + Knock spam defeats Ho-Oh, but I don't think making every competitive team be forced to use this combination to be "good" is healthy at all.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2379885908 (hazard Knock fails as Sandslash becomes burned and is constantly taking chip damage)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2381293344 (Scarf Kleavor loses to Scarf Tauros, presumably attempting to deny Ho-Oh or Gapdos switch-in, Muk-A gets burned and player forfeits)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2380984660 (Ho-Oh phazes both Drifblim and Hitmonlee, nullifying player's key win conditions)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382115544 (Volcarona cannot hit Ho-Oh)

Moving on to Eternatus. This Pokemon is still ridiculously fast and hits extremely hard, with nothing matching its bulk, speed, and power besides more defensive Espeon sets. Unless you are using Espeon, Deoxys-Attack/Speed, Sneasel, or Ambipom (the last 2 being extremely Rocky Helmet weak), you don't have a reliable offensive check against it. Meteor Beam destroys Ho-Oh, Sludge Bomb can poison specially defensive walls and cover Fairies, Dynamax Cannon is an extremely powerful STAB move, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast can hit Steels, leaving the only real defensive walls of Empoleon (competes with Milotic and Vaporeon), Goodra-Hisui (no recovery), Heatran (cannot hit Waters and competes with Ho-Oh), Chansey (stall-exclusive and extremely passive), Fezandipiti, and of course, the Uber of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Eternatus can also Pressure stall Pokemon with Recover.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2384315833 (Eternatus destroying Sun)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2386481948 (loss to Regidrago, lack of preservation of Grimmsnarl and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2378617163 (Eternatus chips Drifblim and Mamoswine to help Oricorio and lives Mamoswine's Earthquake)

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: the best setup sweeper in this format. Have fun trying to wall this Pokemon if it uses Dragon Dance.
I literally don't know how to argue this. BriefMarigold4 has much more experience with this Pokemon.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2381227796 (Lum Berry Necrozma-Dusk-Mane)

 

[BriefMarigold4]

Hi It's me BriefMarigold4 (aka Mari), summoned to explain why Necrozma Dusk Mane is likely the second best Pokemon in the tier behind Ho-Oh.
Surely, one would think that a Pokemon so vulnerable to the tier's top dog (physical attacker weak to fire and not immune to burns, with no STAB to hit it super effectively) would be in such a high place, right?

Well, Necrozma DM makes up for that with its incredible versatility. Where Ho-Oh is incredibly splasheable in teams because it only has 2 sets which are good in almost any given situation (with both sets being incredibly similar, only differentiating in stat sread and 1 singular move), Necrozma instead has a wide, WIDE variety of sets, each being considerably more specialized for certain roles and teams than either of Ho-Oh's set. This means that although most teams can fit Necrozma, deciding what set to run requires a lot more thinking.
However, I want to make something clear; each set is NOT bad. Every individual standard set for Necrozma is good, REALLY good, and all of them are highly different from each other, with most requiring completely different ways to deal with. This means that you must figure out what Necrozma's set is before it clicks a move, or even before it hits the field at all.

Necrozma has various sets at its disposal: Defensive Dragon Dance, Offensive Dragon Dance, Physical Wall, Defensive Swords Dance, Offensive Trick Room Swords Dance, Calm Mind Iron Defense Stored Power... even more unconventional sets like Choice Band, Choice Scarf or Special Wall sets can fit well on certain teams. Mixed sets could also be viable run in earlier gens, but neither Ferrothorn nor Tangrowth exist to justify Heat Wave so, sadge.

Its flexibility doesn't even end there. It has plenty of good moves to make use of; I already mentioned a few like Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Trick Room, Stored Power, Calm Mind and Iron Defense. However, it also has Morning Sun to keep itself alive, Knock Off to remove items like boots, Stealth Rock to support its team with hazzards, Earthquake to hit steels and Stone Edge to hit Ho-Oh and other Fire types, not to mention Photon Geyser and Sunstel Strike, incredibly powerful STABs that blow past abilities like Sturdy and Unaware.

Even its item selection is highly versatile; the least problematic are Leftovers, Life Orb, Heavy-Duty Boots and Rocky Helmet. They're perfectly good, but they make themselves known immediately to the opposing player. However, other items like Lum Berry, Weakness Policy, Covert Cloak, Mental Herb (on Trick Room) and even weakness berries are items that will remain hidden from the opposing player until they trigger, at which point it could win a game. Weakness berries in particular are quite powerful alongside Prism Armor, as together they make a Super Effective move go from dealing x2 damage to x0.75, less than if it was a neutral hit.
It can even use niche items to great extent like Kee Berry, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Expert Belt or Utility Umbrella (namely on the Stored Power set) to decent extent depending on set and team composition.

It's a Pokemon whose versatility makes it difficult to figure out from team preview, and also a problem to answer by the time that you know what set it is running.

Of course, that is not its only problem. By far the most problematic sets are Dragon Dance setups. The answers to such sets are extremely limited, as its extreme bulk alongside prism armor makes it hard to KO reliably without hitting it with super effective special attacks (unless it's running a weakness berry). Items like Covert Cloak allow deefnsive sets to set up reliably in front of attacks without risking status inflictions or stat drops, which allows it to set up safely on most walls and KO them. Even Quagsire, the physically bulkiest Unaware user with STAB Earthquake, falls to defensive Dragon Dance, as it can't hit it hard enough to outdamage Morning Sun heals, and no investment Sunsteel Strike is a 2HKO through leftovers at +5. As for more offensive sets without Morning Sun, the defensive answers don't become any easier, as depending on its coverage it will have completely different answers except for the previously mentioned Intimidate users and Wo-Chien. One of the most common is Mandibuzz running Foul Play. But then you're risking Weakness Policy, which will blow them out of the water.

Overall, its biggest problem is being nearly impossible to predict on a first time fight, with most common good teams lacking answers to the grand majority of sets.

 

[BriefMarigold4]

I will try to collect games of NDM slamming through teams in the next few days (assuming I don't continously keep forgetting to save replays)

 

[NotZzephyr]

Hi It's me BriefMarigold4 (aka Mari), summoned to explain why Necrozma Dusk Mane is likely the second best Pokemon in the tier behind Ho-Oh.
Surely, one would think that a Pokemon so vulnerable to the tier's top dog (physical attacker weak to fire and not immune to burns, with no STAB to hit it super effectively) would be in such a high place, right?

Well, Necrozma DM makes up for that with its incredible versatility. Where Ho-Oh is incredibly splasheable in teams because it only has 2 sets which are good in almost any given situation (with both sets being incredibly similar, only differentiating in stat sread and 1 singular move), Necrozma instead has a wide, WIDE variety of sets, each being considerably more specialized for certain roles and teams than either of Ho-Oh's set. This means that although most teams can fit Necrozma, deciding what set to run requires a lot more thinking.
However, I want to make something clear; each set is NOT bad. Every individual standard set for Necrozma is good, REALLY good, and all of them are highly different from each other, with most requiring completely different ways to deal with. This means that you must figure out what Necrozma's set is before it clicks a move, or even before it hits the field at all.

Click to collapse...

Anybody remember Gen 8 AG?

It doesn't matter what pokemon that NDM is "Weak" to. He doesn't care if he's threatened - he's got Prism Armor. Ho-Oh? Have fun with this Knock Off. You're lucky he doesn't have thunder wave anymore.

It is the role compression god. It will work on any team.If Necrozma-Dusk-Mane joined the NBA today, he would have a $200,000,000 contract (yes, he doesn't need arms).

Hey LandoT - we're good. NDM is here.

 

[Captain]

General offense or balance styles are good. The only thing not good is stall. Feels like there is a lot of Offense MU fishing. Eviolite has turned out to be a bit underpowered if anything. The metagame has a lot of threats and the ubers are only making things even more hectic. With this amount of power and threats around, we ought to have some degree of an HP boost. +5 per tier with a max of 15 or 20 or just a really conservative +10. Ho-oh might need to be banned. Eternatus won't be such a problem if the metagame has more bulk.

 

[BoingK]

Hi all, hope you've been enjoying the June iteration of Tier Shift so far! This definitely feels the most stable a Tier Shift metagame has been in a while, but we have heard a lot of noise on Discord and on forums, and we want to hear more.

Please fill out the following June Tier Shift tiering survey! This will give me and Kaen a bit more of an idea on where the community as a whole sit on their thoughts about the metagame. Feel free to share your survey responses and reasonings publicly on this forum as well.

I hope you continue to play and enjoy Tier Shift! This is probably the last ladder we will have this generation so this will be one of our last chances to make Tier Shift the best metagame it can be. I hope you find the time to fill the survey out!

BoingK

 

[InkyDarkBird]

:ho-oh:
4
Ho-Oh usage has died down for me, but this Pokemon still walls so many special attackers and mostly centralizes special attackers to only the ones that can hit it supereffectively or use Psyshock.

:necrozma-dusk-mane:
5
Too versatile, too bulky, too easy to setup, too difficult to stop, too unpredictable to guess, and the best Steel type in the metagame. Mari explained this better than me.

:eternatus:
5
Already explained with being too bulky and too strong of a special attacker with few Pokemon that can reliably switch into it without risking getting Poisoned. Can also Pressure stall using Recover.

:torterra:
2
Torterra is the best Shell Smash sweeper and Ground + Grass + Rock coverage hits almost every Pokemon for at least neutral damage. However, it struggles against priority (Sneasel, Slither Wing, Mamoswine, Scizor), extremely bulky walls (Giratina-O, Skarmory, Scrafty) and cannot switch into many Pokemon due to its fear of Knock Off completely destroying its sweeping potential and low speed. It i almost always running the same set of Headlong Rush, Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, and Shell Smash, and it is one-dimensional.

:hitmonlee:
2
Hitmonlee is the best Unburden user after players have found easy ways to just wall Drifblim using Ho-Oh, Florges, or other specially defensive walls/phazers. Due to its frail physical bulk, it exists prominently on Psychic Surge teams where it can be safe from priority, however other niche sets, such as Endure Liechi Berry, can be used as well. Similar to regular Sneasler, Hitmonlee is almost always running Swords Dance and Close Combat, although it also needs to pack Stone Edge to defeat Ho-Oh. The last move can be a variety of moves (Earthquake, Knock Off, Poison Jab), although it still isn't that difficult to wall Hitmonlee since most walls can at least take 1 hit neutrally and OHKO it back due to its frail physical bulk.

:groudon: :torkoal: :ninetales:
3 (Drought)
Drought being on the survey was interesting because from what I can tell, I was the only player to massively complain about Drought. I myself have adopted a Drought team to reach #20 on the ladder, and some notable weaknesses it has are being unable to do much against bulky Pokemon that resist Fire (Snorlax, Eternatus), having few methods to pivot in your attackers safely, resulting in me needing to run both Groudon and Torkoal, being weak to Stealth Rocks, and having poor offensive options (only Slither Wing, Brute Bonnet, and Sandy Shocks are offensive Proto Pokemon below OU, and the only real Chlorophyll Pokemon are Venusaur and Scovillain. I don't think Sun can even fit more than 2 attackers since it needs pivoting and hazard control. That being said, most teams that didn't prepare that well for Sun usually found their Fire resist being OHKOed by Choice Specs Solar Power Overheat Charizard in the Sun or have their sweeper get First Impressioned by Slither Wing.

Other thoughts:
Potentially some action on Kleavor for being a powerful Rocks setter that can't be Taunted and having multiple viable sets making it sort of a guessing game (Scarf vs Sash). It is walled by a lot though.

 

[sennicolon]

Let's talk about hazard stack.

After experimenting with a bunch of different playstyles to mixed results, I also realized that hazard removal is challenging in this format. I built a Hazard Stack Balance team that I’d like to share as an example. I’ve found it easy to pilot, and quite consistent against most playstyles. (Also, the whimsical nicknames are important on such teams, as they further demoralize the opponent. Heh. ;D )

If anyone has any feedback on how to improve it, I’d like to hear it!

The team:

:ting-Lu::alomomola::gholdengo::brambleghast::incineroar::pawmot:

The Rundown

:sv/ting-lu:
Where Da Beef (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Throat Chop
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

I started the team off with Ting-Lu, as I wanted a hazard setter that threatened Espeon. Ting also offers phazing to help the team check set up, Subs, Trick Room, Wish passing and Unburden, and is a durable check to Psyspam. Speed is minimized to further assist the Trick Room mu.

:sv/Alomomola:
Gone Fishin’ (Alomomola) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Flip Turn

I knew the team would need some form of longevity to make the hazard chip count, a status absorber, and having another Knock absorber sounded nice, so I added the Wish Fish.

You can feel your opponent’s heart breaking when it passes Ting-Lu and Incineroar Wishes.

:sv/Gholdengo:
Dangerously Cheesy (Gholdengo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Trick
- Recover

Scarf Dengo was added next to counter Defog and Rapid/Mortal Spin, as well as being a primary status absorber.

Trick Scarf isn’t super fast in this meta for general revenging, but it is an amazing for neutralizing one threat per game against every playstyle lacking Sticky Hold or a signature item (Giratina, etc). Trick Scarf is also particularly important for winning against bulky wincons. Trick Scarf also grants tremendous leverage to play around, especially in conjunction with Alomom’s Protect.

Besides STABs, I considered Focus Blast for the last slot, but I hate misses. Recover is the optimal fourth move, as Dengo’s defensive profile is great post Tricking away Scarf, and it gives Dengo some longevity to help the team outlast the opponent a bit more while hazard damage racks up, without having to rely on Wishes.

:sv/Brambleghast:
Get Bramblin’ (Brambleghast) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- Strength Sap

Next I wanted hazard control of my own, as to win the hazard war, as well as a second spin blocker for the Ground-type spinners Dengo struggles against like Great Tusk, Excadrill, Sandslash, etc. I had Drifblim in this slot at one point, but came to find I was struggling with certain Substitute users Ting-Lu struggled with, and disliked Defog undoing my hazard progress. Thankfully, Brambleghast excels at all this, while still being a surprisingly durable defensive wall with Strength Sap. It’s also generally better at walling threatening Grasses with Rock coverage like Torterra and Ogerpon-C.

Bramble can also become a win con with some speed boosts, as Power Whip his like a truck. Shadow Ball is preferred over Poltergeist as we’ll be spamming Knock Off, because this is hazard stack. Shadow Ball ensures opposing Ghost types always have to be wary about switching in to Bramble to spin block it.

:sv/Incineroar:
Cin City (Incineroar) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Now for the star of the show! Incin is the team’s secret sauce and does a ton for this team. Being an Intimidate and Parting Shot user, it makes the team much harder to take out on the offensive end, and its Special Wall, helping counter both Sun and PsyTerrain.

He’s the all important Knock Off spreader, ensuring boots will not be able to ignore hazards in the long run. If you’ve Trick Scarfed something with Dengo early game, it is usually beneficial to hold off on Knock Off and use that vulnerability to either lay your hazards, or otherwise get in the team’s last member to start breaking. It’s especially notable that Incineroar threatens Ho-Oh with Knock while being burn immune, taking a ton of pressure off Alomomola, and it helps Ting-Lu contain Espeon running Fairy coverage, and otherwise being an amazing Hatterene counter.

Flare Blitz is your power move for deleting stuff.

Finally, I like Fake Out for taking out weakened fast threats, and helping to stall out weather/terrain and Trick Room turns.

Five mons in and with the half exception of Dengo, these guys are all defensive. Why is this not considered a stall team, again? Well, it’s time to meet the final boss…

:sv/Pawmot:
Pawnch Burger (Pawmot) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch

Once the opponent is sufficiently weakened by chip, hazards, Rocky Helmet, burns or is otherwise nullified with Trick Scarf or debuffs, Pawmot comes in off a slow pivot, sack or hard switch and just clobbers everything.

With 145 base attack, 135 speed, a crazy strong STAB combination on top of Ice Punch for unresisted coverage, and Iron Fist, and Life Orb, AND Mach Punch for priority, beating Pawmot in the endgame with a weakened team is incredibly difficult. Ice Punch oneshotting Gliscor is notable, as Gliscor is naturally resistant to being worn down by hazard stack schenanigans.

Pawmot also is notable for being a hazard removal prevention option midgame, simply by virtue of good positioning and its immediate offensive pressure. Coalosol and Tatsugiri don’t want to switch in, and Mandibuzz has no business staying in on this thing.

Is hazard stack good? I'd say so! I went 9-0 with this, before beginning to runinto some hard matchups, most of which were winnable in theory. It seems more consistent that pure offense which is always an mu thing. Is it broken? Not in my opnion, no. There's plenty of stuff that beats it hard. It rolls low ladder, but when I got this up to mid 1300s and 1400s, I started ruining into counters.

:necrozma-dusk mane::calyrex-ice: The worst mu. Bulky hard offense with boots. These guys do not permit you to stick around long enough to rack up hazard chip, and Pawmot cant take them down 1V1.

:Wo-Chien: I got fairly high up before realizing I was massively weak to Sub Wo-Chien, as neither Whirlwind Ting-Lu or Brambleghast can deal with it. It’s fine if you can Trick Scarf it but it’s hiding behind a Substitute you are getting Knock’d, Seeded, Ruined.

:tornadus: Manual Rain is probably the worst mu, but I actually haven’t countered any teams. Seems pretty rare since Sun and Snow are just better. In theory, the best options are to lead Rocks or Trick Scarf, stall for turns with Protect and Fake Out as needed, sack Ting-Lu to Wave Crash to take advantage of the recoil, and otherwise make smart plays with Alomo and Bramble, Pawmot.

:muk::swalot::gastrodon: In theory, Sticky Hold balance/stall + Bootspam should really trouble teams like this, but I didn’t see any.

:Tatsugiri: Tatsugiri is a threatening spinner that cannot be blocked well with the Ghosts, and has to be carefully played around, as it can come in for free on Alomomola. Dengo can tank a Hydro Pump or Surf from decent health, and outspeed to hit it with a Shadow Ball, which puts it into priority range, at which point you can kill it with Pawmot regardless of if it spin boosted or not.

:Coalossal: Coalossal is another spinner than cannot be spun blocked by the Ghosts, but it gets played around with Alomo, lacks healing and absolutely hates being Trick Scarfed or Knocked. It cannot be one shot by CC from full, so it needs to be chipped well and can also Flame Body burn Pawmot, so it’s best to deal with it with other means.

:talonflame::Giratina-Origin: :hawlucha: :weezing-galar: These guys can all can Defog on the team with their abilities or by just threatening Dengo, but generally still lose to Dengo and or lose to Pawnot in the endgame.

:bisharp::zapdos-galar: Defiant users mean Incineroar has to be cautious about switching in or using Parting Shot. Bisharp isn’t so bad as it loses to Pawmot, either by getting one shot by CC or getting Trick Scarfed and then losing to Mach Punch with a bit of chip. Gapdos is Spikes immune and rock neutral, but is usually choice locked and so can be played around with Protect and letting it chip itself down with Brave Bird on Alomo and Ting-Lu, before losing to either Dengo, Fake Out or Mach Punch.

Games:
Vs #15 on ladder balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382592934-nvn3h7jp3k1pphm7bt27of6gf2h5t4npw
Vs Espeon + Foretress + Excadrill Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382464732
Vs Court Change Raboot (Pawmot sweep)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382457403
Vs Ho-Oh + GWeezing Stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2381957261-6iy0g9in2fova46ucxf8mlj6o86ft90pw
Vs Talonflame + Taunt Gyarados (First loss)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2382321390

Click to collapse...

Thanks for this team, its crazy op I j hit top 10 on the ladder with it today

 

[hoopandango]

some offbeat picks,

dunno what the current :pikachu: vs :raichu: consensus is. Pikachu is much slower, but hits roughly the same SpA as specs raichu (~560) after light ball. it also shares much of the same movepool, but is much frailer. that said pika can also run a mixed moveset with a harder hitting fakeout, though i havent tried that. ultimately i feel 120 base speed just isnt enough for a pokemon of pikachu's frailty in this meta, though it otherwise mightve been decent.

:manaphy: is only marginally stronger, but seems to work decently at doing manaphy things. though of course it doesn't appreciate the phazers going around and probably cant dent full stall. scald + acid armor makes it threaten some physical set up sweepers somewhat reliably so that's nice too.

:choice band: on :slither wing: might be a decent revenge killer given the type matchups ive been seeing so far.

:eviolite: + :duraludon: looks like a crazy stat stick, but doesnt seem to do much of anything. it does have rocks, phazing, and twave, so it might be useful for utility, but it doesnt like that fighting + ground weakness.

 

[BoingK]

Tier Shift June Survey Results​

Good morning all, we're going to conclude the Tier Shift survey. There were 28 respondents and I would like to thank everyone who responded. I am going to go through every survey element separately and then conclude on the survey at the end.

Throughout this post, there will be two categories of data. One includes all respondents, and one includes those in the top 100 of the ladder, or the qualified playerbase. It is important to note that the all votes category also include responses from those in the top 100 of ladder.

Ho-Oh

graphing

View attachment 750272

It's no surprise to see Ho-Oh. It's mean and median ranking were both 3 on the survey, jumping to 3.375 and 3.5 among the qualified playerbase (top 100 on ladder). This Pokemon is clearly very good and probably has one of the highest usage rates in the tier. It has amazing bulk, an amazing typing, and good power thanks to its signature move Sacred Fire. However, at the moment the council doesn't feel its rankings are high enough to warrant a quickban. If Tier Shift does get another ladder this generation (unlikely, but possible), this will firmly be on our watchlist.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane

graphing

NDM was a controversial Pokemon on the survey. Among the wider playerbase, it scored an average of around 3, with a lot of people voting 3. However, among the qualified playerbase, the Pokemon scored a mean of 3.875 and a median score of 5, which are fairly high numbers. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is great at sweeping teams with its Dragon Dance set, being able to hold a variety of items and fit a variety of moves. It can almost always put in work in a game, which is why it has scored quite highly. This Pokemon has been voted on as a result by the council.

Eternatus

graphing

Eternatus scored decently high, with a 3.1 average across the whole playerbase, and a 3.375 average in the qualified playerbase. There isn't as much of a clearcut consensus here however, as votes are fairly distributed. Eternatus is an extremely powerful Pokemon with a variety of good sets, good bulk, and can be extremely threatening offensively, so it will remain on our watchlist for the rest of the generation.

Torterra

graphing

Torterra is a setup sweeper with great typing and coverage into the metagame. However, the votes on the survey put it at an average of 2.71/2.75, leading us to believe that the community views this pokemon as healthy. Therefore no action will be taken on Torterra.

Hitmonlee

graphing

Hitmonlee is a terrifying Unburden sweeper, and is a feature of Terrain Hyper Offenses. There were some votes ranking this Pokemon fairly highly, but the majority do not think Hitmonlee is broken as of yet, as represented in the mean scores of 2.5 and 1.75, therefore the council do not wish to take action as of now.

Drought

graphing

Weather has been extremely powerful in previous ladder metagames of Tier Shift this generation. Last ladder, we banned Heat Rock to limit the effectiveness of Sun strategies. Despite new Sun setters and abusers available, with old ones in similar tiering, it appears that Sun is viewed as healthy this time around, perhaps due to the presence of a certain rooster. In any case, we don't feel that any action is required at this time.

Other comments made

On tiering elements

• 1 mention of Magearna
  • I haven't personally seen much Magearna personally, demon sets could be scary but the omnipresence of Ho-Oh and NDM make life difficult for it
• 1 mention of Chansey
  • Chansey has been a metagame staple in the past, but the metagame is just not kind to it this time around. There is a future in which it becomes too much but definitely not in this metagame, which is why it hasn't been voted on.
• 1 mention of Hoopa
  • Hoopa does have scary offenses, but it's extremely difficult to make work given how slow it is
• 1 mention of Alolan Raichu
• 2 mentions of Kleavor
  • I've heard a lot of complaints about this Pokemon. It is strong and sets Rocks while doing damage which is really valuable on all teams. Other than that there's nothing spectacular about this Pokemon. The ability to set Rocks while doing damage doesn't feel particularly banworthy to me. I'm willing to watch this Pokemon more closely but I really don't think it's becoming banworthy anytime soon.
• 1 mention of Maushold
• 1 mention of Necrozma Dusk Mane (we really hate this guy that much huh)

• 1 mention of Rage Fist
  • no
• Revival Blessing
  • This specific comment mentions Nuzzle, Encore, and Ice Punch, leading me to believe that the respondent is mainly concerned about Rev Bless on Pawmot. We can't ban Rev Bless on its own if it's only borked on one Pokemon, as per tiering policy. Pawmot is certainly good and having to access to Rev Bless on top of that is a bit unfair, but we would always have to look at Pawmot individually, and I don't think we can quite say it's broken yet.

Other comments

• One comment about how Drought being hit will make another weather abused
  • That's just how tiering works. In any case Drought isn't borked so we don't have to worry about this for now
• One comment about how Tier Shift leans into Offense and HO, making creative / bulkier playstyles less good
  • That's simply a product of both the generation we find ourselves in and how Tier Shift works in general. For what its worth, I think the presence of Ho-Oh makes bulky offense a little bit better because it's so good at checking everything, but I guess that doesn't really satisfy the creative builder you are after. In any case, I don't really have a solution on how to approach this, and I don't really want to either, because there are simply too many offensive pieces to nuke that we'd never get to the bottom of it. With Tier Shift, you're going to have to embrace the faster pace of games, and stall will likely never be viable.
• One comment that is a global observation about Loaded Dice being theoretically banned being interesting
  • Obviously I'm paraphrasing and this single sentence does not do the comment full justice, but no, we are not banning Dice.
• One comment requesting an NDM ban and advocating for bans on the other ubers
  • yes that was the point of the survey
• 3 comments on the Uber-centric metagame, and 2 comments about the struggles of OU Pokemon
  • I think there are currently only 3 Ubers that are over-centralising. I understand why this is frustrating for many, but these Pokemon were all free the last time we had a ladder, and Eternatus was the only one really seeing use, and I don't think it's that unhealthy. That's as to why me and Kaen continued to let the Ubers be free, and now that there are some that are starting to take the limelight, we let tiering action take its course - that is to say, we ban the ones that are too broken. I appreciate the patience you've shown us, and if there is another ladder to come, we will continue to take action as necessary.
  • On the topic of OU Pokemon being not great, I think there are a few Pokemon that have been performing decently well (Ting-Lu is ok, Gliscor and Mola can see some use), but generally OU Pokemon tend to not perform very well in Tier Shift. This was the case in Gen 8, and its been the case for the majority of this generation. Perhaps the description of the OM could be changed, but the mechanic (ie what boosts are actually given) is not changing this generation, and has been discussed many many times in Discord now. This point has been discussed to exhaustion so I would appreciate it if it was left alone for the rest of the generation.
    TLDR, we're not giving OU pokemon boosts, we're not changing lower tier boosts, please stop bugging me about it because I'm pretty happy with the boosts we have and it's out of my power anyway.
• One comment liking the meta...
  • aww, thank you!
• ... and requesting an NDM ban
  • :)
• Another comment liking the meta
  • thanks!
• "I love how Regigigas can actually work in this format"
  • I will leave this here for the average reader to make a judgement on
• "Make Tier Shift a permanent game mode!"
  • I would love for this to happen as well buddy :(

Summary
It appears that the metagame is generally well-liked, both from the survey, and from discussions in the Discord, although there are some elements of the tier that people do not like. We really do appreciate you guys for playing the metagame, and we appreciate these conversations happening, because it gives us a much broader idea on what the community thinks of the tier. I suspect this may be the last ladder of the generation, and if that's the case, it's been an honour to lead the tier, and I hope it continues to thrive into the next generation. But without much further ado, some action to take us through the last week of June...

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane has been banned by council vote!

yeah get that lion out of here dd go brrrr
tagging dhelmise to implement, please and ty!​

 

[InkyDarkBird]

We are never beating the allegations that this format is controlled by Ubers, are we?
Can the silent minority explain why they don't believe Ho-Oh and Eternatus are banworthy?

 

[NotZzephyr]

We are never beating the allegations that this format is controlled by Ubers, are we?
Can the silent minority explain why they don't believe Ho-Oh and Eternatus are banworthy?

Click to collapse...

How else would I do this? :totodiLUL::totodiLUL::totodiLUL:

Evil incarnate

 

[Rasche]

with the month coming to an end i want to share the teams I've enjoyed this month. They all have served me pretty well on high ladder (~top 20)

Typhlosion Sun BO : :Groudon::Slither Wing::Ho-Oh::Slowbro::Typhlosion-Hisui::Cyclizar:

Solid offense team, if you don't run into Ho-Oh the MUs are very free. I want to highlight Slither Wing as a great anti-HO mon and AV Slowbro as a very versatile defensive pivot, who can also stallbreak. Typhlo is very hit or miss. Vape and Ho-Oh ruin typhlo but u do have tech rockslide for the latter.

Para spam ft. Regidrago + Mamo : :Ho-Oh::Mamoswine::Slowking::Raikou::Regidrago::Jirachi:
Pretty fun team. Mamo and drago break very well and allow for raikou/drago to clean. Slowking and rachi can para fast threats to open up Mamoswine & drago

Evire BO :Electivire::Ho-Oh::Hoopa::Cyclizar::Swampert::Scizor:

Evire is cool af, has pretty fire MUs into mons like gliscor, Ho-Oh etc... Team is super standard pivot spam BO with a focus of getting ur evire in.

Psyspam: :Indeedee::Deoxys-Attack::Espeon::Grafaiai::Torterra::Venomoth:
Standard Psyspam HO, ur pretty weak into bulky psychics and mons like mandibuzz but you still have some outs. Tort set is lacking a grass move so the team can have rocks but ngl u might be better off with a grass move on tort.


Bellibolt Rain :Tornadus::Floatzel::Kingdra::Excadrill::Bellibolt::Thundurus: & Eternatus Rain: :Tornadus::Floatzel::Basculegion-F::Excadrill::Eternatus::Thundurus:
Solid rain teams. Bellibolt is super fun to use, but its definitely not optimal lol. Eternatus is pretty busted and fits on well to rain. Both swift swim mons hit like nukes and even the setters have offensive utility.

 

[Raoul Sanchez]

We are never beating the allegations that this format is controlled by Ubers, are we?
Can the silent minority explain why they don't believe Ho-Oh and Eternatus are banworthy?

Click to collapse...

As someone that has been cheesing with Cosmic power meteor beam eternatus (which probably isn't the best set but it's a free win when the heavy hitting counters to etern are knocked out) since week 1 of this month reaching varying degrees of success on the ladder (ranging from top 10 - top 50 and floating around between there) I can wholeheartedly say this mon is smoothering a lot of the meta. Same with ho-oh that mon just comes in and sits on most special attackers.

I'm at least glad NDM is gone.