What do you mean by kyogre is "technically banned"
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Metagame Tier Shift
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
Drizzle is banned, and that’s Kyogre’s only ability.
This is my Sun team that I reached #44 with on the ladder.
My Team:
https://pokepast.es/5854d5614b4a611e
Groudon and Torkoal are my 2 Sun setters, which are both necessary because Heat Rock is banned. Groudon carries an Eject Pack so it can switch out quickly using Overheat, which also threatens Forretress, Skarmory, Brambleghast, and other Pokemon that think they can simply sit on it. Stone Edge is for stupid Ho-Oh. Torkoal has Rapid Spin to eliminate hazards and Clear Smog to help prevent setup sweepers, such as Cetitan. STAB Lava Plume in the Sun is not a joke and threatens 2HKOs on most offensive attackers. Both of them run Wisp as well.
Cyclizar is probably the most role-compressed Pokemon in this metagame. Having Regenerator, U-Turn, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and Taunt (theres Draco Meteor and Breaking Swipe as well) means that it can easily chip opposing Pokemon and allow pivoting for Slither Wing and Jolteon. Cyclizar removes hazards with Rapid Spin and prevents them from coming up again with Taunt, and its typing naturally walls Brambleghast.
The only reason Vaporeon really exists is to serve as a specially defensive pivot that can wall Water Pokemon and not lose instantly to Psyspam. It uses Alluring Voice so it doesn't get destroyed by Tatsugiri and can threaten Dragons or any Pokemon that decides to set up on it. Milotic might be better, but I prefer Water Absorb to help gain momentum.
Jolteon is my special attacking replacement to Charifraud after it decided to keep screwing me over in the 1300s by missing Choice Specs 252 Spa Solar Power under the Sun Overheat against key targets, as well as taking half its health from Rocks every time Cyclizar or Torkoal weren't able to prevent hazards. Unlike Charizard, Jolteon is the second-fastest viable Pokemon in this tier (Deoxys-S being the first), which is important to outspeed Espeon, Salazzle, Cinccino, Pawmot, etc. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are generic STAB moves, Alluring Voice is to KO Pawmot and Dragons, and Weather Ball is there because it's basically the only other option besides Shadow Ball. Choice Specs helps it maintain its damage output and KO chipped targets more easily
Slither Wing is the best Pokemon to use for a Sun team. If you are using Sun and exclude Slither Wing, you are doing something terribly wrong. Choice Banded Protosynthesis First Impression, Flare Blitz, Close Combat, and U-Turn under the Sun OHKO or 2HKO so many HO targets that it isn't even funny.
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Maushold: 301-355 (104.1 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Grimmsnarl: 288-339 (87 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 306-360 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 288-340 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kleavor: 244-288 (86.8 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 481-567 (88.9 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 277-327 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pawmot: 319-376 (113.5 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclizar: 288-339 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's so powerful I don't even know if it wants U-Turn over Earthquake just to secure more KOs.
Compared to Lokix, Slither Wing has
22.68% more Atk
15% more Def (uninvested)
79.2% more SpDef (uninvested)
Only takes 12.5% from Rocks
Hits around 33% more Pokemon with Bug/Fighting/Fire coverage
Strengths:
I don't know why people are trying to run manual Rain, but it gets easily destroyed with 2 Sun setters, Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Slither Wing.
Basically any HO and a few balance teams will get destroyed by Slither Wing. I have no idea how well this matches up into stall because it is virtually nonexistent.
Weaknesses:
The broken Ubers. Of course it's always the broken Ubers. Have fun trying to pivot in Groudon or Jolteon safely into Eternatus or Ho-Oh without risking OHKOs or burns. You might as well forfeit from the start if you face these teams unless they mistakenly think Eternatus or Ho-Oh can defeat Groudon safely.
Scream Tail abuses the Sun to become ridiculously fast and prevents Jolteon from threatening it that well with Calm Mind. Slither Wing cannot snag the OHKO using First Impression under the Sun, meaning that the opponent has to somehow not OHKO or 2HKO Slither Wing before it uses Flare Blitz, which is almost never happening.
Despite checks against Psyspam, it remains a horrible MU into my team because it kills Slither Wing's nuke button. Scarf Indeedee outspeeds Jolteon and Jolteon can only 2HKO it back, meaning that Vaporeon must be preserved in order to defeat Indeedee.
The annoying double 4x resists for Slither Wing's STABs. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane getting banned means this Pokemon will only rise in popularity.
Notable Games:
I hope we can suspect Ho-Oh and Eternatus (maybe Deo-A depending on how broken Psyspam is now that NDM is gone) out of the game next OMOTM. This format is supposed to be dominated by lower-tier Pokemon.
My Team:
https://pokepast.es/5854d5614b4a611e
Groudon and Torkoal are my 2 Sun setters, which are both necessary because Heat Rock is banned. Groudon carries an Eject Pack so it can switch out quickly using Overheat, which also threatens Forretress, Skarmory, Brambleghast, and other Pokemon that think they can simply sit on it. Stone Edge is for stupid Ho-Oh. Torkoal has Rapid Spin to eliminate hazards and Clear Smog to help prevent setup sweepers, such as Cetitan. STAB Lava Plume in the Sun is not a joke and threatens 2HKOs on most offensive attackers. Both of them run Wisp as well.
Cyclizar is probably the most role-compressed Pokemon in this metagame. Having Regenerator, U-Turn, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and Taunt (theres Draco Meteor and Breaking Swipe as well) means that it can easily chip opposing Pokemon and allow pivoting for Slither Wing and Jolteon. Cyclizar removes hazards with Rapid Spin and prevents them from coming up again with Taunt, and its typing naturally walls Brambleghast.
The only reason Vaporeon really exists is to serve as a specially defensive pivot that can wall Water Pokemon and not lose instantly to Psyspam. It uses Alluring Voice so it doesn't get destroyed by Tatsugiri and can threaten Dragons or any Pokemon that decides to set up on it. Milotic might be better, but I prefer Water Absorb to help gain momentum.
Jolteon is my special attacking replacement to Charifraud after it decided to keep screwing me over in the 1300s by missing Choice Specs 252 Spa Solar Power under the Sun Overheat against key targets, as well as taking half its health from Rocks every time Cyclizar or Torkoal weren't able to prevent hazards. Unlike Charizard, Jolteon is the second-fastest viable Pokemon in this tier (Deoxys-S being the first), which is important to outspeed Espeon, Salazzle, Cinccino, Pawmot, etc. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are generic STAB moves, Alluring Voice is to KO Pawmot and Dragons, and Weather Ball is there because it's basically the only other option besides Shadow Ball. Choice Specs helps it maintain its damage output and KO chipped targets more easily
Slither Wing is the best Pokemon to use for a Sun team. If you are using Sun and exclude Slither Wing, you are doing something terribly wrong. Choice Banded Protosynthesis First Impression, Flare Blitz, Close Combat, and U-Turn under the Sun OHKO or 2HKO so many HO targets that it isn't even funny.
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Maushold: 301-355 (104.1 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Grimmsnarl: 288-339 (87 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 306-360 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brambleghast: 288-340 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kleavor: 244-288 (86.8 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regidrago: 481-567 (88.9 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Drifblim: 277-327 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pawmot: 319-376 (113.5 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclizar: 288-339 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's so powerful I don't even know if it wants U-Turn over Earthquake just to secure more KOs.
Compared to Lokix, Slither Wing has
22.68% more Atk
15% more Def (uninvested)
79.2% more SpDef (uninvested)
Only takes 12.5% from Rocks
Hits around 33% more Pokemon with Bug/Fighting/Fire coverage
Strengths:
I don't know why people are trying to run manual Rain, but it gets easily destroyed with 2 Sun setters, Vaporeon, Jolteon, and Slither Wing.
Basically any HO and a few balance teams will get destroyed by Slither Wing. I have no idea how well this matches up into stall because it is virtually nonexistent.
Weaknesses:
The broken Ubers. Of course it's always the broken Ubers. Have fun trying to pivot in Groudon or Jolteon safely into Eternatus or Ho-Oh without risking OHKOs or burns. You might as well forfeit from the start if you face these teams unless they mistakenly think Eternatus or Ho-Oh can defeat Groudon safely.
Scream Tail abuses the Sun to become ridiculously fast and prevents Jolteon from threatening it that well with Calm Mind. Slither Wing cannot snag the OHKO using First Impression under the Sun, meaning that the opponent has to somehow not OHKO or 2HKO Slither Wing before it uses Flare Blitz, which is almost never happening.
Despite checks against Psyspam, it remains a horrible MU into my team because it kills Slither Wing's nuke button. Scarf Indeedee outspeeds Jolteon and Jolteon can only 2HKO it back, meaning that Vaporeon must be preserved in order to defeat Indeedee.
The annoying double 4x resists for Slither Wing's STABs. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane getting banned means this Pokemon will only rise in popularity.
Notable Games:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2393970714
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2392064289?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391791482?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391190070?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391074100?p2 (manual Rain)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391448352 (broken ubers)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2390345894 (broken ubers)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2389694276?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2389312723 (charifraud throwing the game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2390343651
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2393352252?p2 (manual Rain)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2392064289?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391791482?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391190070?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391074100?p2 (manual Rain)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2391448352 (broken ubers)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2390345894 (broken ubers)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2389694276?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2389312723 (charifraud throwing the game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2390343651
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2393352252?p2 (manual Rain)
I hope we can suspect Ho-Oh and Eternatus (maybe Deo-A depending on how broken Psyspam is now that NDM is gone) out of the game next OMOTM. This format is supposed to be dominated by lower-tier Pokemon.
If this is the wrong place for this, tell me if this doesn't belong and where I should repost.
The Other Metagames calculator does not multiply any stat increases for Speed. Not the biggest deal since you can easily multiply by hand but it can be very misleading.
I don't think TS is meant to be programmed for past tiers but I have noticed that the /ts command is broken for past tiers, it says ZU mons get a +30 stat boost on the /ts command but they actually get a +40 stat boost, this is displayed corrected on the calc.
The Other Metagames calculator does not multiply any stat increases for Speed. Not the biggest deal since you can easily multiply by hand but it can be very misleading.
I don't think TS is meant to be programmed for past tiers but I have noticed that the /ts command is broken for past tiers, it says ZU mons get a +30 stat boost on the /ts command but they actually get a +40 stat boost, this is displayed corrected on the calc.
This thread seems to deal with the calc related issues
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-showdown-damage-calculator.3593546/
For the past tiers, before gen 9 the tier shift boosts were different (UU/RUBL +10, RU/NUBL +20, NU/PUBL +30, PU and lower +40), if you mean that using /ts without changing gens shows stats for previous gen buffs then that would be brought to bug reports
https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/ps-bug-reports.876/
Guys do you have any teams with Sneasel-H? I played with him in a strange team that I made but I lost it :(
Just look at https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-06/gen9tiershift-1500.txt and https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-06/moveset/gen9tiershift-1500.txt.
The most important information you should know are that you always need a Rock move or Stealth Rock + Knock Off to beat Ho-Oh reliably, Espeon + Deo-A + Psyspam is powerful that is probably only going to get more powerful with Necrozma-Dusk-Mane gone, Kleavor is a stronger Samurott-Hisui and always runs Scarf, Cyclizar is one of the best role compressors, and Pawmot and Hitmonlee are probably the fastest offensive Pokemon in the tier.
Watch out for Minior and Torterra, the two best Shell Smashers. Don't get set up on by Bisharp or Crawdaunt or Regidrago.
The only OU Pokemon still viable are Kingambit (though Bisharp is almost better in every way), Gliscor, Great Tusk, Ting-Lu, Alomomola, Gholdengo, Hatterene, Glimmora, and Deoxys-Speed. Weezing-Galar is likely no longer as viable due to losing its bulk from last OMOTM. Scizor is also less viable.
The most important information you should know are that you always need a Rock move or Stealth Rock + Knock Off to beat Ho-Oh reliably, Espeon + Deo-A + Psyspam is powerful that is probably only going to get more powerful with Necrozma-Dusk-Mane gone, Kleavor is a stronger Samurott-Hisui and always runs Scarf, Cyclizar is one of the best role compressors, and Pawmot and Hitmonlee are probably the fastest offensive Pokemon in the tier.
Watch out for Minior and Torterra, the two best Shell Smashers. Don't get set up on by Bisharp or Crawdaunt or Regidrago.
The only OU Pokemon still viable are Kingambit (though Bisharp is almost better in every way), Gliscor, Great Tusk, Ting-Lu, Alomomola, Gholdengo, Hatterene, Glimmora, and Deoxys-Speed. Weezing-Galar is likely no longer as viable due to losing its bulk from last OMOTM. Scizor is also less viable.
I think u forgot someone 
Golurk has a lot going for it in this format
Old stats: 89/124/80/55/80/55
New stats: 89/154/110/85/110/85
The set I use has choice scarf to outspeed fully invested Pokemon with a base speed stat of 135(such as Flutter Mane and Koraidon/Miraidon)
Golurk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 184 HP / 160 Atk / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Poltergeist
On top of having great matchups into the two legendaries currently on the watchlist, it has a lot of coverage and can hit very hard while being able to tank hits as well.
Old stats: 89/124/80/55/80/55
New stats: 89/154/110/85/110/85
The set I use has choice scarf to outspeed fully invested Pokemon with a base speed stat of 135(such as Flutter Mane and Koraidon/Miraidon)
Golurk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 184 HP / 160 Atk / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Poltergeist
On top of having great matchups into the two legendaries currently on the watchlist, it has a lot of coverage and can hit very hard while being able to tank hits as well.
160 Atk Golurk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 512-604 (123 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
160 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 366-432 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Drifblim Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 252-296 (69 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 272-324 (74.5 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
160 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 366-432 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Drifblim Shadow Ball vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 252-296 (69 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 272-324 (74.5 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I do not understand why Brute Bonnet is used. Sure, it is the paradox Pokemon that benefits most from Tier Shift, but it has almost no utility (only Growth under Sun, Taunt, Synthesis, which isn't good for such a poor defensive typing, and Stun Spore), and even if it does want to use utility, it either has to sacrifice Close Combat for coverage, Sucker Punch for priority, or one of its two STABs. Never mind the fact that this Pokemon is almost a free switch in for Slither Wing (arguably the best paradox Pokemon), Honchkrow, Mandibuzz, etc, can't even 2HKO Ho-Oh, and is 4x weak to U-Turn.
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 166-196 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Cyclizar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 184-220 (43.1 - 51.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
At least with Slither Wing and Scream Tail, they can thrive outside Sun as a terrifying wallbreaker/revenge killer or a bulky special sweeper. Brute Bonnet, however, solely relies on the Sun to have any chance of viability. Outside of Sun, Honchkrow, Bisharp, Lokix, Chien-Pao, and Grimmsnarl are all better Sucker Punchers that have much better setup options and sweeping potential.
That aside, what trends have you guys noticed that are different from last OMOTM? Staraptor has been incredibly annoying to face for me, with Reckless Choice Scarf off of two powerful STABs OHKOing a ton of Pokemon. I have seen a lot less Psyspam than expected, which is odd because it lost one of its biggest checks, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Rain does not seem to be doing too well with the prominence of bulky Waters (Vaporeon, Milotic, Empoleon, Toxapex, Slowbro).
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Brute Bonnet Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 166-196 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Cyclizar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Brute Bonnet: 184-220 (43.1 - 51.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
At least with Slither Wing and Scream Tail, they can thrive outside Sun as a terrifying wallbreaker/revenge killer or a bulky special sweeper. Brute Bonnet, however, solely relies on the Sun to have any chance of viability. Outside of Sun, Honchkrow, Bisharp, Lokix, Chien-Pao, and Grimmsnarl are all better Sucker Punchers that have much better setup options and sweeping potential.
That aside, what trends have you guys noticed that are different from last OMOTM? Staraptor has been incredibly annoying to face for me, with Reckless Choice Scarf off of two powerful STABs OHKOing a ton of Pokemon. I have seen a lot less Psyspam than expected, which is odd because it lost one of its biggest checks, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Rain does not seem to be doing too well with the prominence of bulky Waters (Vaporeon, Milotic, Empoleon, Toxapex, Slowbro).
I'm usually straight cheeks at teambuilding but I built a team that while I know its flawed, it definitely shines in the right scenarios. I stole Im999 golurk set and then threw in a bunch of mons that I thought might work together. It has a scarf golurk, fast support eternatus, phys def ho-oh, phys def cm sylveon, phys def pivot milotic, and av komala. Here's the paste: https://pokepast.es/5bd0c34fe46cf77f
Strengths:
1) max phys def sylveon is astonishingly hard for alot of teams to break through. This is usually the team's main wincon and it rarely disappoints, not to mention it can still pass a wish off when able. Super impressed.
2) The HP investment on golurk has actually come up in a couple scenarios, like cleaning up a weakened vaporeon while needing to take a scald or surviving freeze-dry from alolan ninetales. Here's the calc against support ninetales: 8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 152-182 (41.6 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
3) Komala while is has some 4MSS because I really like knock and u-turn, it's been a reliable spinner and assault vest might genuinely be the best item it can carry. Comatose has really come in handy at blocking twave and toxic too.
4) toxic might not seem impactful, but does it ever screw with your opponent psychologically. If they don't respect it you can easily poison half the opponent's team. If they do, eternatus becomes a huge target that they must remove which helps with predicting what future turns might look like.
5) Ho-oh really is cheap. If your team can't break Ho-oh that's an easy win. While I don't have hazards to properly take advantage of whirlwind, it's very good at phasing out boost sweepers.
Weaknesses:
1) No entry hazards puts alot more strain on your team when it comes to wearing your opponents down. I built this team knowing this because I really wanted a toxic mon but it's really needed for some matchups.
2) this team has little chance at breaking stall. Sylveon is destroyed by toxic, which is now more commonly found on these stall teams. golurk isn't strong enough to break walls like chancey, amoongus or quagsire. My own status does little in the face of chancey and poison types to absorb toxic, and while chancey can strug off a burn the rest of stall doesn't mind getting burnt as long as they can handle ho-oh. This is one of those matchups where hazards are really appreciated.
3) HO is often a horror matchup, depending on the type. Snow HO which I've seen a couple times on ladder is an unwinnable matchup, psyspam while oddly rare folds the team in half, and webs is the only decent matchup but that's very dependent on the team structure.
4) This golurk ev spread has saved me, but it's also doomed me. Being slower than the most common webs setter really sucks, so is being slower than alolan ninetales. It's slower than most dragon dance and quiver dance mons at +1. It also doesn't have enough power to justify it's existence most of the time, but maybe that's because I've been facing more fat teams than offense which golurk thuds into more often than against frail breakers.
5) There's a lack of immediate power in this team. Komala and golurk are the strongest attackers outside of sylveon after a couple boosts, but they don't apply enough pressure to the opponent. Komala at least has an excuse because it's my spinner and it has knock off to remove problematic items like eviolite, but I did build the team so I know that going into games.
Strengths:
1) max phys def sylveon is astonishingly hard for alot of teams to break through. This is usually the team's main wincon and it rarely disappoints, not to mention it can still pass a wish off when able. Super impressed.
2) The HP investment on golurk has actually come up in a couple scenarios, like cleaning up a weakened vaporeon while needing to take a scald or surviving freeze-dry from alolan ninetales. Here's the calc against support ninetales: 8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 152-182 (41.6 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
3) Komala while is has some 4MSS because I really like knock and u-turn, it's been a reliable spinner and assault vest might genuinely be the best item it can carry. Comatose has really come in handy at blocking twave and toxic too.
4) toxic might not seem impactful, but does it ever screw with your opponent psychologically. If they don't respect it you can easily poison half the opponent's team. If they do, eternatus becomes a huge target that they must remove which helps with predicting what future turns might look like.
5) Ho-oh really is cheap. If your team can't break Ho-oh that's an easy win. While I don't have hazards to properly take advantage of whirlwind, it's very good at phasing out boost sweepers.
Weaknesses:
1) No entry hazards puts alot more strain on your team when it comes to wearing your opponents down. I built this team knowing this because I really wanted a toxic mon but it's really needed for some matchups.
2) this team has little chance at breaking stall. Sylveon is destroyed by toxic, which is now more commonly found on these stall teams. golurk isn't strong enough to break walls like chancey, amoongus or quagsire. My own status does little in the face of chancey and poison types to absorb toxic, and while chancey can strug off a burn the rest of stall doesn't mind getting burnt as long as they can handle ho-oh. This is one of those matchups where hazards are really appreciated.
3) HO is often a horror matchup, depending on the type. Snow HO which I've seen a couple times on ladder is an unwinnable matchup, psyspam while oddly rare folds the team in half, and webs is the only decent matchup but that's very dependent on the team structure.
4) This golurk ev spread has saved me, but it's also doomed me. Being slower than the most common webs setter really sucks, so is being slower than alolan ninetales. It's slower than most dragon dance and quiver dance mons at +1. It also doesn't have enough power to justify it's existence most of the time, but maybe that's because I've been facing more fat teams than offense which golurk thuds into more often than against frail breakers.
5) There's a lack of immediate power in this team. Komala and golurk are the strongest attackers outside of sylveon after a couple boosts, but they don't apply enough pressure to the opponent. Komala at least has an excuse because it's my spinner and it has knock off to remove problematic items like eviolite, but I did build the team so I know that going into games.
Tier Shift now has Viability Rankings.
Current VR
Bisharp
Braviary-Hisui
Cyclizar
Ho-Oh
Kleavor
Lycanroc-Dusk
Pawmot
Slither Wing
Staraptor
Chien-Pao
Crawdaunt
Drifblim
Empoleon
Espeon
Goodra-Hisui
Hitmonlee
Honchkrow
Hoopa
Jolteon
Lokix
Minior
Regidrago
Scream Tail
Skarmory
Slowbro
Ambipom
Amoonguss
Arboliva
Arcanine-Hisui
Barraskewda
Cloyster
Decidueye-Hisui
Deoxys-Attack
Diancie
Dipplin
Dragalge
Electivire
Eternatus
Excadrill
Florges
Gallade
Glastrier
Hippowdon
Hitmontop
Indeedee
Malamar
Mamoswine
Maushold
Milotic
Mudsdale
Scizor
Snorlax
Sylveon
Ting-Lu
Alomomola
Araquanid
Bellibolt
Crabominable
Dipplin
Falinks
Feraligatr
Frosmoth
Galvantula
Golurk
Goodra
Grimmsnarl
Groudon
Hatterene
Hattrem
Heracross
Kingambit
Krookodile
Mabosstiff
Mandibuzz
Muk-Alola
Porygon-Z
Quagsire
Qwilfish-Hisui
Raikou
Torkoal
Typhlosion-Hisui
Ursaluna
Vaporeon
Venusaur
Arboliva
Basculegion
Brambleghast
Beartic
Bombirdier
Cinccino
Delphox
Dudunsparce
Gholdengo
Giratina-O
Gliscor
Gurdurr
Hariyama
Haunter
Houndstone
Incineroar
Jirachi
Kingdra
Klefki
Magneton
Muk
Munkidori
Naclstack
Ninetales-Alola
Porygon2
Rabsca
Rampardos
Rotom-Mow
Rotom-Wash
Salamence
Salazzle
Skeledirge
Suicune
Talonflame
Tatsugiri
Terrakion
Torterra
Uxie
Wo-Chien
Zoroark-Hisui
Alcremie
Bronzong
Brute Bonnet
Calyrex-Ice
Drednaw
Emboar
Gyarados
Inteleon
Lapras
Regice
Ribombee
Sandaconda
Sandslash
Slaking
Tsareena
Volcanion
Zoroark
Current VR
BisharpBraviary-HisuiCyclizarHo-OhKleavorLycanroc-DuskPawmotSlither WingStaraptorChien-PaoCrawdauntDrifblimEmpoleonEspeonGoodra-HisuiHitmonleeHonchkrowHoopaJolteonLokixMiniorRegidragoScream TailSkarmorySlowbroAmbipomAmoongussArbolivaArcanine-HisuiBarraskewdaCloysterDecidueye-HisuiDeoxys-AttackDiancieDipplinDragalgeElectivireEternatusExcadrillFlorgesGalladeGlastrierHippowdonHitmontopIndeedeeMalamarMamoswineMausholdMiloticMudsdaleScizorSnorlaxSylveonTing-LuAlomomolaAraquanidBelliboltCrabominableDipplinFalinksFeraligatrFrosmothGalvantulaGolurkGoodraGrimmsnarlGroudonHattereneHattremHeracrossKingambitKrookodileMabosstiffMandibuzzMuk-AlolaPorygon-ZQuagsireQwilfish-HisuiRaikouTorkoalTyphlosion-HisuiUrsalunaVaporeonVenusaurArbolivaBasculegionBrambleghastBearticBombirdierCinccinoDelphoxDudunsparceGholdengoGiratina-OGliscorGurdurrHariyamaHaunterHoundstoneIncineroarJirachiKingdraKlefkiMagnetonMukMunkidoriNaclstackNinetales-AlolaPorygon2RabscaRampardosRotom-MowRotom-WashSalamenceSalazzleSkeledirgeSuicuneTalonflameTatsugiriTerrakionTorterraUxieWo-ChienZoroark-HisuiAlcremieBronzongBrute BonnetCalyrex-IceDrednawEmboarGyaradosInteleonLaprasRegiceRibombeeSandacondaSandslashSlakingTsareenaVolcanionZoroark
Deoxys-Defense @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Recover
- Cosmic Power
- Teleport
According to all known laws of everything I know about pokemon, this shouldn't work, it really shouldn't, so by the love of god somebody explain to me why this is being so far so stupidly consistent, I'm rarely even using this as a quick pivot with teleport because somehow it feels like if the opponent has no dark type you can just lead with this and watch literally everything crumble while praying for a crit. Pretty much all mons rely on dark type knock off to break through psychic types and the amount of times this simply led to a sweep because weakness policy procs is genuinely insane, I can't tell if this is just cause I'm low on the ladder or I found some hidden gem in this meta, could anyone who actually knows how to play the game give feedback on this? Because I'm genuinely curious at the viability of this, also if you could suggest a 4th move cause I haven't pressed teleport once
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Recover
- Cosmic Power
- Teleport
According to all known laws of everything I know about pokemon, this shouldn't work, it really shouldn't, so by the love of god somebody explain to me why this is being so far so stupidly consistent, I'm rarely even using this as a quick pivot with teleport because somehow it feels like if the opponent has no dark type you can just lead with this and watch literally everything crumble while praying for a crit. Pretty much all mons rely on dark type knock off to break through psychic types and the amount of times this simply led to a sweep because weakness policy procs is genuinely insane, I can't tell if this is just cause I'm low on the ladder or I found some hidden gem in this meta, could anyone who actually knows how to play the game give feedback on this? Because I'm genuinely curious at the viability of this, also if you could suggest a 4th move cause I haven't pressed teleport once
After trash talking full Trick Room as a viable archetype on Discord, I made a full Trick Room team and hey, I got reqs with it. Boy, don’t I look foolish! I’ll never doubt you again, my beloved Hatterene. <3
Vann’s Trick Room Funstravaganza!
Super simple team. Is it all that good? Uhhh… I guess? As long as people don’t remember why balance is good. (For the love of god why don’t you people use Trick Scarfs, or Ting-Lu + a Wish+Protect mon?)
Anyway, Hat’s your lead, minus some obvious Iron Head counterlead, in which case, lead Crawdaunt. TR with Hat and do your Wish to heal your breaker of choice, and proceed to start breaking. Or if they have a multi-hit move, like Pop Bomb, just use a ghost lead.
Golurk is a lot of fun. Poltergeist hits really hard. Being Fake Out immune is sweet for Trick Room, and those extra confusion turns from Dynamic Punch can be filthy. Golurk could also probably be Assault Vest for outside TR, but I’m all about DPS when TR is up.
Vikavolt eats balance cores, pivots around and bypasses Subs with Buzz.
Crawdaunt is just Crawdaunt, Crunch instead of Knock so Golurk can spam Poltergeist, and SD for cheeky Protect plays and forcing KOs.
Mimi is your guaranteed mid or late game TR setter, Red Card is anti-setup and anti-Sub tech. Curse for momentum and softening up fat boys.
Caly-Rex is just silly strong if the opponent lacks a Slowbro, but your three other breakers all have SE STABs for the Bro.
A game, take that Ho-Oh!
Have fun!
Vann’s Trick Room Funstravaganza!
Super simple team. Is it all that good? Uhhh… I guess? As long as people don’t remember why balance is good. (For the love of god why don’t you people use Trick Scarfs, or Ting-Lu + a Wish+Protect mon?)
Anyway, Hat’s your lead, minus some obvious Iron Head counterlead, in which case, lead Crawdaunt. TR with Hat and do your Wish to heal your breaker of choice, and proceed to start breaking. Or if they have a multi-hit move, like Pop Bomb, just use a ghost lead.
Golurk is a lot of fun. Poltergeist hits really hard. Being Fake Out immune is sweet for Trick Room, and those extra confusion turns from Dynamic Punch can be filthy. Golurk could also probably be Assault Vest for outside TR, but I’m all about DPS when TR is up.
Vikavolt eats balance cores, pivots around and bypasses Subs with Buzz.
Crawdaunt is just Crawdaunt, Crunch instead of Knock so Golurk can spam Poltergeist, and SD for cheeky Protect plays and forcing KOs.
Mimi is your guaranteed mid or late game TR setter, Red Card is anti-setup and anti-Sub tech. Curse for momentum and softening up fat boys.
Caly-Rex is just silly strong if the opponent lacks a Slowbro, but your three other breakers all have SE STABs for the Bro.
A game, take that Ho-Oh!
Have fun!
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Just got reqs as well, using some funny manual rain (the drizzle ban can't stop me from using rain in every OM!!!!):
(click for pokepaste)
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515567810
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515490065
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515203553
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515196562
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2513546348
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2513528624
@ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Taunt
- U-turn
When it comes to Prankster rain users, there's probably a lot out there (even when considering you'd also want additional utility like taunt and encore), but my eyes set on Volbeat because it has access to slow u-turn as well, a pretty valuable tool. It's bulk is not horrible when taking the tier shift boost, enough to survive 1 or 2 hits usually. Although this team is extremely offensive, so even if you have to sack Volbeat after getting rain off turn 1, it's usually fine. Taunt is really important to stop something like webs or screens from going up, and Encore can be useful in a pinch. Not really any point in running Roost because the only thing Volbeat is there for is set rain up then die anyways, and we have secondary rain setters anyways. Speaking of which...
@ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Weather Ball
- Rain Dance
- Nasty Plot
Tornadus is really strong in Tier Shift, boasting an impressive 150 base SpAtk, backed up by 110 bp Hurricane and 100 bp sort-of stab Weather Ball. It's ability to reset rain at +1 priority also comes in handy very often. You usually won't be clicking Nasty Plot very often, as Tornadus is not exceptionally bulky despite the +25 to both defenses, but it really helps crack open fat balances you may run into (for exemple, you might wanna click it on a predicted Vaporeon switch in). Very solid offensive mon with a decent bit of utility.
@ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Belly Drum
If you know me, you know I love Poliwrath. I've been using it in SV OU as part of a pretty wacky offmeta rain team, but this time, he's playing with the big boys. I'm using an all out offensive set here, dropping Encore in favor of Ice Punch for coverage and CC in lieu of Drain Punch for maximum breaking power. Poliwrath is already surprisingly bulky in SV OU, but with the amazing +30 all over boost he gets here, you can easily set up Belly Drum in front of any Pokemon that can't hit you super effectively. Just like Tornadus, this is great vs any fat balance you may encounter.
@ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Flip Turn
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
Usually the star of the show in most rain teams, today Barraskewda is playing second fiddle to our next mon. Still, he's really solid and gets a very nice boost. Rain mons tend to have pretty low usage/tiering, which doesn't really reflect how strong they can be; which is how you end up with 146 base Atk Barraskewda. This thing is kind of a monster, but the popularity of Vaporeon makes it a little difficult to use sometimes. I'm running max speed which is way overkill under rain just so you have something that remains fast once run is out/if webs go up. Not much else to say here, this is as classic as it gets.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance
THE GOAT!! Gunk Shot hits disgustingly hard, being a guaranteed 2hko on full defensive Amoonguss. Overqwil is a very nicely rounded out Pokemon in Tier Shift, with great natural bulk that allows you to set up SD very easily. But most games, that won't even be necessary: You're ohkoing anything that is not fully defense invested anyways. If drizzle wasn't already banned, I'd be saying this mon would probably need a suspect of its own lol.
@ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Rain Dance
Since we're on manual rain, we can never have too many setters. Not running Alluring Voice means that this won't be able to dent the usual dragons of the tier (Cyclizar, Etern), but imo the tradeoff is extremely worth it. The combo of electric + water is near perfect coverage anyways, as grass types are pretty rare, and you can volt on anything that switches into you anyways. Excellent at keeping momentum in your favor, and can always come back for the sweep in the late game (although this is true of every single mon in this team, as they all boast excellent speed tiers). A perfect way to round off an already giga offensive team lol
Have fun with this ! As for the suspect, I honestly don't think any of the ubers are really worth it except maybe Caly-I (but I still only have a very limited understanding of this OM in the grand scheme of things). Probably gonna vote do not ban on the Ho-Oh suspect, unless something makes me change my mind. Maybe it's annoying to deal with for Balanced teams, but it is my sincere belief that atm HO teams are probably the best thing you can run atm lol
(click for pokepaste)
Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515567810
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515490065
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515203553
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2515196562
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2513546348
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-2513528624
@ Damp RockAbility: Prankster
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Taunt
- U-turn
When it comes to Prankster rain users, there's probably a lot out there (even when considering you'd also want additional utility like taunt and encore), but my eyes set on Volbeat because it has access to slow u-turn as well, a pretty valuable tool. It's bulk is not horrible when taking the tier shift boost, enough to survive 1 or 2 hits usually. Although this team is extremely offensive, so even if you have to sack Volbeat after getting rain off turn 1, it's usually fine. Taunt is really important to stop something like webs or screens from going up, and Encore can be useful in a pinch. Not really any point in running Roost because the only thing Volbeat is there for is set rain up then die anyways, and we have secondary rain setters anyways. Speaking of which...
@ Life OrbAbility: Prankster
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Weather Ball
- Rain Dance
- Nasty Plot
Tornadus is really strong in Tier Shift, boasting an impressive 150 base SpAtk, backed up by 110 bp Hurricane and 100 bp sort-of stab Weather Ball. It's ability to reset rain at +1 priority also comes in handy very often. You usually won't be clicking Nasty Plot very often, as Tornadus is not exceptionally bulky despite the +25 to both defenses, but it really helps crack open fat balances you may run into (for exemple, you might wanna click it on a predicted Vaporeon switch in). Very solid offensive mon with a decent bit of utility.
@ Sitrus BerryAbility: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Belly Drum
If you know me, you know I love Poliwrath. I've been using it in SV OU as part of a pretty wacky offmeta rain team, but this time, he's playing with the big boys. I'm using an all out offensive set here, dropping Encore in favor of Ice Punch for coverage and CC in lieu of Drain Punch for maximum breaking power. Poliwrath is already surprisingly bulky in SV OU, but with the amazing +30 all over boost he gets here, you can easily set up Belly Drum in front of any Pokemon that can't hit you super effectively. Just like Tornadus, this is great vs any fat balance you may encounter.
@ Choice BandAbility: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Flip Turn
- Aqua Jet
- Close Combat
Usually the star of the show in most rain teams, today Barraskewda is playing second fiddle to our next mon. Still, he's really solid and gets a very nice boost. Rain mons tend to have pretty low usage/tiering, which doesn't really reflect how strong they can be; which is how you end up with 146 base Atk Barraskewda. This thing is kind of a monster, but the popularity of Vaporeon makes it a little difficult to use sometimes. I'm running max speed which is way overkill under rain just so you have something that remains fast once run is out/if webs go up. Not much else to say here, this is as classic as it gets.
@ Life OrbAbility: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Liquidation
- Swords Dance
THE GOAT!! Gunk Shot hits disgustingly hard, being a guaranteed 2hko on full defensive Amoonguss. Overqwil is a very nicely rounded out Pokemon in Tier Shift, with great natural bulk that allows you to set up SD very easily. But most games, that won't even be necessary: You're ohkoing anything that is not fully defense invested anyways. If drizzle wasn't already banned, I'd be saying this mon would probably need a suspect of its own lol.
@ Life OrbAbility: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Weather Ball
- Rain Dance
Since we're on manual rain, we can never have too many setters. Not running Alluring Voice means that this won't be able to dent the usual dragons of the tier (Cyclizar, Etern), but imo the tradeoff is extremely worth it. The combo of electric + water is near perfect coverage anyways, as grass types are pretty rare, and you can volt on anything that switches into you anyways. Excellent at keeping momentum in your favor, and can always come back for the sweep in the late game (although this is true of every single mon in this team, as they all boast excellent speed tiers). A perfect way to round off an already giga offensive team lol
Have fun with this ! As for the suspect, I honestly don't think any of the ubers are really worth it except maybe Caly-I (but I still only have a very limited understanding of this OM in the grand scheme of things). Probably gonna vote do not ban on the Ho-Oh suspect, unless something makes me change my mind. Maybe it's annoying to deal with for Balanced teams, but it is my sincere belief that atm HO teams are probably the best thing you can run atm lol
Last edited: