VGC Toast To The Gods

espeonguy

With the current VGC format allowing certain legends into the mix, which means now teams don't just have to build against MKhang. From my play tests, the most common Legends I see brought are MRayquaza, PDon and Xerneas. The difficult part is that while MRay and Xerneas are fairly easy to build around, Primal Groudon is a monster that needs special care to effectively win against.
That being said, I wanted my team to go against the grain and use a legendary I have surprisingly not seen much of: Ho-Oh.
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The building process:

I wanted to make Ho-Oh be the perfect counter to Xerneas, so I knew it was going to need Iron Head.
But asides from resisting it's Fairy attacks, Xerneas still is a huge problem if it gets off Geomancy. So I had to partner him with someone who could shut down set ups, but also Fake Out support to allow Ho-Oh a set up.

The only practical choice became Liepard, who is the second fastest Prankster and the second fastest Fake Out, but the only one outside Sableye who has access to both.
Liepard is really only shut down by Whimsicott, too. I wanted the set to be a full disruption set, one that means that he still gets use after his main role is finished. So I gave him Knock Off for STAB as well as permanently crippling non Mega sets, such as Cresselia. Encore was given to punish moves that can't do much to Ho-Oh. Overall the synergy between the two is fantastic.

My third selection was Altaria to help counter the rampant usage of Mega Rayquaza and his Primal friends. However, I switched to Golduck in order to keep my mega slot open as well as cover Groudon much more effectively.
Though mostly used as a weather stopper, he combos well with the team and provides great coverage while removing the limits on my team imposed by Primordial Sea and Desolate Land.

I initially opted for Altaria to cover both my mega slot and my weather stopper, but separating them and using a more powerful mega is much better in the heavy hit format.
Plus, rearranging them around let me keep the same weaknesses as I initially had, therefore keeping consistency in the build. Intimidate is also very handy to let Salamence check MRayquaza and, to an extent, Primal Groudon.

Ferrothorn is amazing not only because it's a perfect check to MKang, but also against Kyogre and Xerneas.
With incredible bulk, most EV's can effectively be invested offensively. This makes him not only a pivot, but he can also be used to put pressure on the opponent via Leech Seed. His overt weakness and inability to harm Groudon limits how many games I can squeeze him into, but he's so effective that it's hard to not want to bring him every match.

My most recent team addition.
Xerneas is a beast. It's ability boosts its own STAB moves even further(albeit any fairy move for that matter) it has a great special attack stat, and with Geomancy, stopping him once he's going is only easy for pokemon with Priority moves like Bullet Punch. Don't let Xerneas get off Geomancy.

Here's a closer look:

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Atk / 116 HP/ 138 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed

Ferrothorn is designed with Kyogre and Xerneas in mind. Gyro Ball hits faster opponents for massive damage if they don't resist. Power Whip covers Kyogre, Golduck, Milotic, and has a high Base Power coming off a decent attack stat. Due to his natural bulk, his ability and the Rocky Helmet, I was able to invest in full attack power and invest minimally into defenses.
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird/Protect
- Tailwind
- Iron Head/Protect

The main star of the show. Very straight forward set, use Tailwind to sweep with his monstrous attack. Sacred Fire is a powerful STAB attack that has the potential for burn. Brave Bird is also STAB, but between that and Iron Head, I have no idea what to switch for Protect. Leftovers helps keep him alive seeing as he is reasonably bulk and can sponge most things except Rock Slide.

Liepard @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 160 HP/ 96 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Encore
- Knock Off

Ho-Oh's partner in crime. Thanks to being the fastest pokemon to learn both Fake Out and have the Prankster ability. Encore disrupts plays from Tailwind and Trick Room, as well as locks pokemon into moves that can do little to nothing against Ho-Oh. Knock Off is an excellent STAB move that disrupts anything not holding a Mega Stone. Foul Play let's Liepard function well against Groudon, Rayquaza etc. The spread maximizes speed while giving it some bulk to play with, though he's too frail and needs the Focus Sash either way.

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 116 Def / 252 SpA / 140 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Focus Blast
- Protect

Xerneas fills the spot of my second legendary, with Power Herb allowing a first turn Geomancy given the right circumstances. Dazzling Gleam is the better option than Moonblast, as it hits both pokemon(plus thanks to his ability it is still a very high power attack). Focus Blast covers steel types like Heatran who would otherwise well Xerneas. Protect is mandatory to keeping him alive and allow his partner to support him or cover any threats who would eliminate him.

Golduck @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cloud Nine
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Not much to say here. Scarf let's Golduck hit a high speed tier, outspeeding Kyogre Groudon and Xerneas, and keeping MRayquaza in check. Maximum speed and special attack investment let's Golduck OHKO PDon with Hydro Pump. Having a decent movepool, I went with Psychic, Focus Blast and Ice Beam for coverage moves.

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Protect

My mega pokemon and one of the heaviest hitters in the game. Intimidate helps keep Groudon, Rayquaza, Khangaskan and other attackers in check. Double Edge is a STAB move thanks to Aerilate, and can OHKO most things that don't resist. Earthquake is a powerful move that covers Groudons one main weakness. Draco Meteor was chosen for STAB as well as keeping his set mixed. This way, I have an answer for opposing Salamence or other intimidate users. Protect is customary on a sweeper in doubles. The EV and Nature spread maxes out speed and attack to give the best possible damage output.

So there's my team after the edits. Let me know what you think, any suggestions, etc. It'll all be very appreciated!
 
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espeonguy

I don't know where or how to find the ones people usually use on here with the sprites. Is nobody gonna give me actual input or just critique errors?
 

Derivatives

I have quite a few suggestions for it.
  1. Ho-oh is one of your drop-a-legends and you really want to preserve it. Since you're not running any sort of Choice item on it in the first place, why not use Protect? It can keep Ho-oh alive in compromising situations, and lets you bring in something you need against things that threaten it like Primal Kyogre. It can also help stall out opposing Tailwind or Trick Room.
  2. Liepard is running a lot of not needed attack just to hit hard with Knock Off. If you want to hit hard, Foul Play is a strong option that can hit Primals and other drop-a-legends incredibly hard due to their naturally high attack stats, even if they use a hindering nature and no attack IVs.
  3. This next one is just a personal preference of mine, but dropping Taunt since you already have Encore to deal with Trick Room could be a good idea (I don't have a clear suggestion to replace it with, but Liepard has a considerably good movepool).
  4. I'm not quite sure what Milotic brings to the table that other things like Scarf Golduck or something does not aside from the obvious increase in bulk, as Competitive doesn't see much use in this format. Though I am not an advocate of Golduck or Psyduck as a whole, they do have their merits and Milotic doesn't seem to match up to them.
  5. Mega Altaria is incredibly underwhelming imo, especially with the special variant as so much that people run is resistant to Fairy and its stats are pretty poor. Really any strong and powerful attacker could replace it, though I would suggest Mega Salamence as it resists Primal Kyogre's Origin Pulse/Water Spout and can hit really hard with Double-Edge, while also dealing with Mega Rayquaza pretty well, both of which seem to give this team issues even with the already present checks for the two.
  6. The 6th slot should be your second drop-a-legend since they are so useful, and if I were to pick one it would be Xerneas. Your team seems to handle its checks pretty well, so it wouldn't be too bad an idea to put it on there.
  7. One more personal preference, you have both Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball on Ferrothorn, and they sort of work against each other. Iron Head could do in place of Gyro Ball, but at the same time I doubt Iron Head deals amounts significant enough to justify it over Gyro Ball against things like Xerneas.
You also had a peculiar way of setting this up, and it might look better if you follow some basic guidelines.
  • Here is the button in the teambuilder [Import/Export] that you should click on your team and just copy/paste it in here, with the 3+ lines of description below each mon's importable (I probably explained that wrong).
  • Your sprites look gigantic and scary :( you should use this website for sprite URLs, it makes life so much easier (you can bookmark it by pressing Ctrl+D!). It also is easier to read the team if you put the images right before each respective pokemon's description (most people put it before the importable section as well).
Hope you like my input, if not that's ok I guess.
 

espeonguy

Thank you, I appreciate the input. I see many of your points. So let's discuss them:
1:I wanted protect SO bad on Ho-Oh, but unfortunately he suffers from 4 move syndrome. I really like him with Iron Head, but the only two moves I see fit for removal are Brave Bird or Iron Head. Not sure which one I'm most comfortable losing.
2 and 3: I fully agree with your statement about Liepard. I initially invested all that attack into HP, but I opted out due to Sash. I'll test out Foul Play in lieu of Taunt and see if that's more useful for the team.
4:Scarf Milotic has actually seen a lot of play. If in replace him it will have to be for Golduck I suppose, though he's rather underwhelming I would say. Which brings me to 5.
5: Altaria was also running pretty well, but I seen the merits in changing him. I mainly ran him as he was a bulkier Cloud Nine who I could surprise with a mega evolution. I will try out Golduck + M Salamence though, which helps against Groudon with Intimidate, so that's a really good suggestion.
6: I also washed to run him as well. I initially found it difficult to fit a second legend ironically, as none of them seemed to help my cause. But with Liepard, I can see him actually being a big threat now that I think of it. As for Ferrothorn, I realize now I goofed up. Thanks for the reminder about TWave. Also thank you for the help with the post format. I appreciate it!
 
Steven Stone

Steven Stone

Ok, so a few details you wanna have in mind:

- Even though Iron Head hits Xerneas for super effective damage, STAB Sacred Fire only has 10 BP less than Iron Head, making it the overall safest choice against Xerneas. The burn chance might make this difference unexistent, even. STAB Brave Bird definitely hits harder than Iron Head, so Iron Head is definitely not a wise choice over a move like Protect.
- Anti-Intimidate Pokemon aren't as good as they were in 2015. Not only they lack speed, but they also do pitiful damage to every Pokemon in the format, besides a few exceptions like Milotic vs Primal Groudon, Bisharp vs Xerneas, etc. On top of this, there aren't as many viable Intimidate users as there were in 2015, this is mainly because either the metagame didn't benefit them (see Arcanine, Scrafty) or the small special orientation of the metagame makes them unavailable to pull their weight. And because to use Milotic succesfully you need to have Altaria at its side, it limits your playstyle and it'll in the long run make you lose games because how much Milotic relies on Altaria. Plus, Altaria isn't even good besides its niche which isn't even useful as Altaria relies on Milotic to get the KO on Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza, and playing around a choice-locked Milotic isn't that hard. It might just give Xerneas the opportunity to set-up Geomancy and screw your game.

As a reccomendation, you kinda need a better answer to Primal Groudon, specifically speaking, physical Rock Slide variants. Mega Salamence helps you hinder it, and i'd honestly reccomend Primal Kyogre > Milotic. Sounds counterproducent with Ho-Oh but it does give you Heavy Rain support which Ferrothorn appreciates, while also being able to OHKO Primal Groudon with literally anything. I'm still iffy on this choice as i see your team having issues with Mega Kangaskhan and i'd reccomend Giratina instead, but i think both are worth testing.
As 6th member, i honestly don't know. Check team synergy and try to figure our what your team struggles with and then add whatever seems fitting. You gotta do a lot of testing though, so do your best.

That's it, hope this helps!

EDIT: LOL Kang is still best mega, don't undersell it like many of the 2015 Worlds qualifiers did.
 
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