[Toge]kiss my ass

Hey this is a little team i threw together for a tourney, i wouldn't say it is mainly focuses on one pokemon but the team does really help support CM 3 atk suicune, whom i have come to love.

Overview:
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In Depth

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Metagross@OccaBerry
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252hp / 244atk / 12spe
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Bullet Punch
-Explosion
I was never fond of Gross lead. I thought it to be too slow to get up rocks and get the match starting compared to Azelf or Infernape, but through using this set Metagross has come one of my favorite leads. Stealth Rocks for obvious, lead reason. Earthquake gives good coverage against Heatran, Infernape and Swampert. Bullet Punch is great for getting a good jump of sleeper leads like Roserade and Smeargle, as well as finishing off weak opponents. Explosion finishes off the set, providing a huge boom to anything wanting to set-up on me. All around a bulky, reliable lead.​


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Latias @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
Evs: 4hp/ 252spAtk/ 252spe
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Trick
Where would the metagame be without Latias? An extremly offensive and defensive pokemon it is quite unpredictable. Sadly, this set is very predictible, but still deadly. Latias gives me a check to today's threats like Gyarados and Salamence. Draco Meteor is my main form of offense, providing a one time giant blow to my opponent. Surf is for those Heatrans and Tyranitars, and if i don't want to deal with the -2 SpAtk drop. I tend to keep latias in reserve, first showing my Rotom to lure in those T-tars that completely decimate Latias.


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Rotom@ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Evs: 252hp, 72def, 96spAtk, 88spe
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp
-Pain Split
To say Rotom isn't a little broken is lying. It has great typing, powerful STABS, and a diverse movepool. And it easily counters its two biggest theats; Scizor and Tyranitar. Out speeding both, Wisp completely cripples them and makes Latias' job a little easier. Pain Split is an interesting move for Rotom. Iv'e found through experience that this Rotom can actually out-stall a blissey that doesnt pack toxic (or im already status'd), using pain split to boost off of Blissey's amazing high HP stat. Why cut form? Well, this team doesn't have a direct counter to Swampert so i needed something that could easily scare it off so it can bother me later.


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Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252atk/ 252spe/ 4hp
-Iron Head
-Ice Punch
-Fire Punch
-U-Turn
The most useful move of this set has to be U-Turn. I plain out love the move, just use it on an obvious switch and bring in a counter, and the opponent is forced to switch again! One goal in this RMT is to include another U-turner because the move really helps let Suicune set up and just lets me scout. Ice Punch and Fire Punch take care of Mence and Scizor respectively and Iron Head gives good STAB as well as that famous 60% flinch chance. Also Latias and Jirachi have turned out to be a GREAT team of scarfers boosting off each other's weaknesses.

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Togekiss@ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 252hp/ 20def/ 236spe
-Air Slash
-Roost
-Encore
-Heal Bell
The glue of this team. I realized the majority of my teams failed because of no way to cure status and i wanted something quick, unpredictable and self-sustaining to that job. Fitting in great with the rest of my team is Togekiss. These speed evs put me just above adamant Luke letting me encore a swords dance and effectively crippling it. While i have no SpAtk investment, Air Slash still provides great STAB and that helpful 60% flinch rate. All in all i have come to LOVE this togekiss.

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Suicune@Leftovers
Nautre: Bold
Evs: 252hp/ 211 def / 44 spAtk
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Hidden Power [Electric]
Well, i still need a reliable physical wall and Suicune fits the bill. A little more offensive than the normal Cune i have actually been able to do some late game sweeping with this thing. After a calm mind my stats are pretty damn bulky on both sides. I gave an extra 44spatk to score some 2HKOs as well as have a good chance to OHKO Gyara after a DD. I have had a problem with CM Jirachi lately and might try roar over hp electric

so that's the team! Tell me what you think and rate honestly and strictly.


Rising Problems:
CM Jirachi - Once it gets a free switch in I really cant control it.
Anything using a combination of Tbolt and Shadowball (Gengar) as nothing on my team want to take 2 of both.
 
Hiya!

I noticed right away that you might have trouble with some variants of Gengar, mainly LO Gengar. Nothing on your team likes to take any of its attacks. There is a simple check to this, if not counter, and that would be a ScarfTar. He's not really a counter since he fears Focus Blast, but you can usually sacrifice whatever is in to ensure he gets in safely, thus effectivly revenging Gengar.

I would suggest that you place it over Jirachi, since it seems that you mainly use Jirachi for scouting and revenging a threat is more important than scouting IMO.

And it seems that you lack anything effective to kill Scizor, since the ones that lure him don't reallly kill him. So I will suggest a Bait Latias over your Scarf Latias. Having both Jirachi and Latias Scarfed seems a bit redundant.... So you might want to think about that.

Other than that, good team.
 
Nice team!. *Seconding the idéa of ScarfTran*. Really nice team otherwise.

Although it seems that your Togekiss is having a hard time to attack at all. It's single attack gets walls by Ttar, Scizor, Metagross and Jirachi. I would problamy fit in Aura sphere or even HP [Fire]. Looking closer HP Fire seems really good in there hitting most of the named pokemons.
 
Although it seems that your Togekiss is having a hard time to attack at all. It's single attack gets walls by Ttar, Scizor, Metagross and Jirachi. I would problamy fit in Aura sphere or even HP [Fire]. Looking closer HP Fire seems really good in there hitting most of the named pokemons.

To extrapolate on Ontop's rate, I think there is an even better Pokemon that can serve Togekiss' role as well as counter those above Pokemon: Support Celebi.

Celebi's Grass Knot is a surefire 2HKO, kinda like a OHKO if you predict the switch, against TTar and HP Fire can OHKO Scizor and 2HKO Metagross and Jirachi. You can try a Defensive Celebi spread, but with Heal Bell over T-Wave.
 
Nice team!. *Seconding the idéa of ScarfTran*. Really nice team otherwise.

Although it seems that your Togekiss is having a hard time to attack at all. It's single attack gets walls by Ttar, Scizor, Metagross and Jirachi. I would problamy fit in Aura sphere or even HP [Fire]. Looking closer HP Fire seems really good in there hitting most of the named pokemons.

Togekiss gets Fire Blast/Flamethrower.

However, Aura Sphere would probably be better.
 
Thanks for the rates guys!
Before i was running a baittar which actually worked pretty good, but decided jirachi gave me better coverage and
I had tried out bait latias with scarf-tar and it didn't work too well. Latias didn't have the speed i needed and ttar was countered way too easily.

Ill definitely try out that celebi set thanks!
 
Hello! I'm a huge fan of Togekiss and offensive Suicune, and its great to see them getting some use, but I hope to patch up any weaknesses that you may currently have with this rate.

The thing that I notice about your team is that it seems to have some trouble dealing with Swords Dance Lucario. He can basically set up on Jirachi or Latias locked into the wrong move very easily, and then OHKO every member on your team with either Close Combat, Extremespeed, or Crunch. While Jirachi helps counter Lucario, if your looking to smash it then good luck, because Fire Punch won't OHKO. I also see that your team is lacking a resistance to Dark type moves. A relatively easy way to fix all this would be to use Choice Scarf Heatran on your team over Jirachi. Use an EV spread of 4 Atk | 252 SpA | 252 Spe, a set of Fire Blast | Earth Power | Hidden Power Grass | Explosion, and a Naive nature. Pretty self explanitory, can outspeed and kill Lucario with Fire Blast while dealing heavy damage to other Pokemon.

Ok, now I know that you like the Togekiss set that you are currently running, but to be honest I really don't see the pont of it. I think that you may be better off simply running a standard Nasty Plot sweeper version. Use a set of Nasty Plot | Roost | Air Slash | Aura Sphere, an EV spread of 252 HP | 152 SpA | 104 Spe, an a Modest nature with the item Lum Berry and the ability Serene Grace. I feel like this set could benefit your team a bit more, as it can act as a nice secondary back-up sweeper should Suicune fail to get a sweep underway. Lum Berry allows Togekiss to still act as a status absorber of some sort for your team, and while it isnt as effecient as Heal Bell, it doesn't require you to run one move and spend one turn for your opponent to set up. Thanks to Togekiss' natural bulk and special attacking prowess your opponent will find it tough to set up on, which is cool because pretty much any sweeper with a Lum Berry could set up on your previous set very easily.

Uh so I'm thinking that you might want to try a more offensive EV spread on Suicune. To be honest a simple 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe spread can work just fine here. I'm a long-time user of Calm Mind + 3 Attacks Suicune, and I can tell you that I generally find its power and speed to be a bigger concern than its bulk when you are trying to get a sweep underway. Suicune is still a very bulky Pokemon when it isnt packing any Defense or Special Defense EVs thanks to its bulky Water type status. Another thing you may want to try is using Leaf Storm on Rotom-C as opposed to pain split. While Pain Split lets you beat Blissey, I generally find it to be an extremely unreliable option on Rotom-C. Leaf Storm I feel could really work however, as your team is currently lacking a reliable way to smash Swampert, who can switch in on most of your Pokemon pretty easily and then cause some problems with its solid defensive stats.

Hope I helped, and just PM me if you have any more questions! ;)
 
Alright Snorlaxe thanks for the rate
I had tried out scarf tran on this team over Rachi and the reaction was so-so. I will definitely give it another shot though. The Togekiss option is one i like, i was never a huge fan of thing but really like the set you gave me and will try it out. I was aware of that huge Luke weakness and i think Tran will help me beat that as well as CM Rachi (Fire Blast easily 2HKOing even after a calm mind).

Looking back to this team, Metagross really seems to be the only thing giving Blissey a reason to run so i might switch out Rotom for something a bit more offensive. Ill work on some things and be back! thank you!
 
Hey I like the name of your team a lot.

First thing you might want to change about your team is you might want to change Metagross item into Lum berry because you can take the sleep and just setup the Stealth rock because I'm sure there's plenty of things that can take a Fire Blast from either Infernape or ShucaTran.

Latias looks overall well, I wouldn't change it. For Jirachi though you might want to change it to Scarftran if you really wanted to to just take care of Calm mind rachi better or just take the Fire blasts from LeadTran which is what you're afraid of for your metagross, the other option that's minor on the LeadRachi is just changing it from Uturn to Trick.

For Rotom you might want to kink the moveset a little bit I have one of my favorite Rotoms Set which is Sub-Rotom which is awesome because it outspeed Lucario and outstalls Blissey because the thing you might be afraid from the Blissey is either toxic or Thunder wave, it helps alot this set, but here's what you can do.

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/70 Def/188 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp / Subsitute
- Substitute
- Subsitute /Shadow Ball

For Togekiss you might want to run something a bit offensive as listed above so why not try this

Togekiss @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP 152 SpA 104 Spe
Nasty Plot
Air Slash
Aura Sphere / Flamethrower / Heal Bell
Roost

Suicune set you might want to change it to a bit more bulky set but it's your option and take out Cm Rachi easier which seemed to destroy your cune a often amount of time.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP 252 Def 6 Speed
Nature: Bold
Moveset:
Surf
Calm Mind / Rest
Ice Beam
Roar

Good luck hope my rate helped :).
 
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