Toge Party! (my first RMT)

rustysneakers

Hey guys. so this is my first RMT. This is the first team i've really spent a lot of time thinking about how i need to put it together and what not. I really dig togekiss and it's flinchin'/Nasty attackin abilities that i decided to make this team. the whole idea of the team is to get togekiss in a position to set up a nasty plot or two and sweep.
it became quickly obvious that i would need some things to resist electric attacks, and from there it was all just trying to compliment types and figuring out what i needed to be successful. so please give me as much feedback as possible. all fixes/changes are appreciated as i'm not the best team builder in the world and am still learning.

so without anymore blabbin here's the team!

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Togekiss @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 176 HP/ 80 Spa/ 252 Spe
Timid
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere

So i chose the offense set up over the defensive mainly because i tried to build my team around getting all of Togekiss' problem pokes out of the way before moving in to sweep. On top of that, i have espeon on the team to bounce back hazards but especially to set up dual screens. so with dual screens up, my togekiss' already awesome defenses become even better, therefore allowing for a full offensive set. I'm still on the fence about it. Let me know what you think about the choice between the defensive and offensive set. But yeah, pretty straight forward set. Switch in when i feel that the problem pokes are out of the way and proceed to nasty plot and attack. aura sphere was chosen over roost, again, because by the time togekiss makes it out, all counters should be gone so i shouldn't need to get health back.

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Swampert @ leftovers
ability: torrent
EVs: 248 HP/ 216 Def/ 44 SpD
Relaxed
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock
-Roar

It was between this guy and gastrodon as one of my electric Attack checkers. I chose swampert for Stealth rock and the little bit better bulk. I often lead with this guy to get rocks out as fast as possible. this guy and shaymin also go well together when trying to find out hidden power types of the electric types i'm facing, especially rotom-w. if rotom-w is in with this guy, i'll switch out to shaymin to check hidden power. If he uses it, it's probably HP grass and i know shaymin is the check from there on out. if he doesn't use HP, i then think it's fire or ice and swampert will continue to check. roar was chosen over toxic for phasings sake. he has the bulk to switch in on a set up and roar, also gaining residual damage from rocks. Ice beam and earthquake give me good coverage and ice beam is excellent for those pesky dragons.


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Shaymin @ leftovers
ability: natural cure
EVs: 252 HP/ 76 SpA/ 180 Spe
Modest
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Seed Flare
-Earth Power/Hidden power ice?

My second electric attack absorber. This shaymin is used to switch in on electric attacks and threaten with a seed flare or earth power. Stalling is also partially viable with this shaymin due to subseed. As mentioned above, shaymin has great synergy with swampert. shaymin also serves as my status absorber with natural cure. Picked this set over the attacker just to give shaymin a little more longevity. hidden power fire would've normally been picked over earth power, but having magnezone and infernape on the team gave me plenty of checks to common steel types. finally, shaymin being grass adds to my grass/fire/water core for good coverage.

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Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 148 HP/ 252 SpA/ 108 Spe
Modest
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire
-Flash Cannon

Togekiss can have a bit of a problem with bulky steels, such as bronzong, ferrothorn, and the dreaded jirachi. Magnezone is here to make that job a tad easier. togekiss does not like being paralyzed or burned so magnezone is here to take care of all that. with choice specs and a modest nature, magnezone's Special Attack becomes nuts. Hidden power fire is obviously the main attack here since he's mainly here for jirachi. but thunderbolt and volt switch also help with scouting and dealing lots of damage. trapping ferrothorn is also incredibly useful as this team would like to not have a bunch of hazards lyring around.

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Espeon @ light clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
Timid
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Fighting

This espeon, is mainly serving two (or three) roles. One, it obviously is used for bouncing hazards back at the opponent to keep those things off my field. two, it also serves as a second status nullifier, being able to switch into predictable toxics, will-0-wisps, or thunder waves. and third, and possibly most important, this bad boy is here to set up screens for my togekiss. behind dual screens, togekiss' already awesome bulk becomes even better, giving me an easy nasty plot set-up (sometimes even twice for assurance). Hidden power fighting is obviously for the TTar switch ins, though, if screens are set up, it doesn't really matter anymore as togekiss' aura sphere can easily handle it.

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Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 108 Atk/ 148 SpA/ 252 Spe
Hasty
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power Ice/stone edge?
-Close Combat
-U-turn

Last, but certainly not least, is infernape. This infernape is my revenge killer. he's used to take out dragons, gliscor, terrakion, landorous, steels that magnezone didn't get, and basically whatever else i need to get rid of. with swampert and shaymin, infernape finishes the water/grass/fire core. with u-turn, if need be, infernape and magnezone can get a small voltswitch thing going, but is obviously not what this team is after. the choice between hidden power ice and stone edge is tough right now. HP Ice is incredibly handy for revenging a whole ton of stuff (dragons, gliscor, terrakion, landorous, etc.) but stone edge would cover a few of those as well as zapdos, who could pose to be a major problem for this team. let me know what you think about the choice between the two.


so in a nutshell, main things i'm pondering:
-what should i do with zapdos!?
-Defense or Offensive Nasty Plot for Togekiss
-Subseed or offensive shaymin set (and if subseed stays, earth power or hp ice)
-HP ice or Stone Edge on Infernape
-do i need a ghost to stop fighting attackers?
 
What's your answer to STAB Close Combat?

I mean, like, a band terrakion can procure 2HKOs on both Espeon and Togekiss, 1HKOs on Magnezone, nape, etc.

It's all well and good to flinchhax, but revengekillers are NOT your friend (like, things like Scizor can come in and wreck shit, not to say Mamo, or like, Dragons)

You're probably weak to hazard teams, and I really don't see any way for you to really stallbreak, especially vs. bulky water/grounds who KO magnezone back, etc.

I'm not sure how to fix this without knowing what you really want from this team after the parahax are done with and they've finally killed togekiss and they have a sweeper or two backed up.
 

Hey man, Togekiss seems like a pretty cool mon, but I don't think your doing enough to support it. It's good that you have Screen support, but Togekiss is fairly slow so paralysis would be useful to assist it in a sweep. I suggest a Specially Defensive Jirachi over Magnezone. Between Togekiss and Infernape, Steel-types shouldn't really be an issue so Magnezone is definately replacable. Jirachi can effectively spread paralysis with Serene Grace Body Slam and it also patches up your weakness to Lati@s and Reuniclus (Latias completely walls half your team). Your team would also love Jirachi's Wish Passing as nothing on your team is carrying reliable recovery. Meaning you can keep your Swamper in top shape to wall Landorus, Terrakion etc. On Infernape I would try using Hidden Power Ice and replacing Fire Blast with Flare Blitz. Flare Blitz OHKOes Volcarona with perfect accuracy, who easily swepers you team after a Quiver Dance. The recoil is also less of an issue since you have Jirachi passing Wishes. You'll want to keep Hidden Power Ice to revenge kill Dragonite / Salamence who will love to set on Shaymin if you are not using Earth Power.

Jirachi | Serene Grace | Leftovers
Careful | 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Wish | Body Slam | Protect | Iron Head

Good luck with the team!
 
this isn't a parahax togekiss. it's a sweeper. so like i said, i've tried to set up the team so that every one other than togekiss supports him by taking down threats that would normally get in his way, then send him in to sweep behind screens. terrakion is taken care of by my scarfed infernape. i obviously have to lose someone for that to happen, but with team preview, i can see who i can afford to lose and then send in ape. not many are expecting it scarfed so it usually kos with close combat.

all steels that would get in the way are taken care of by magnezone generally. and dragons don't do a whole bunch to togekiss after screens are up anyway. hazards are generally bounced by espeon, but a rapid spinner would be nice, just couldn't find a way to fit one on.

so there's the basic layout and maybe some answers to your questions? now that you know the idea, what kind of suggestions do you have?

@BTzz
i've been really liking magnezone. jirachi is one of the counters i needed to look out for since jirachi is faster than me and can paralyze me or flinch me to death. every time i've switched into jirachi with magnezone it's been an easy kill. he's been great. wish is something that would be incredibly handy though. i'll give the switch a try and see what happens.
i'll try the flare blitz out as well. thanks for the suggestions!
 
rustysneakers said:
this isn't a parahax togekiss. it's a sweeper. so like i said, i've tried to set up the team so that every one other than togekiss supports him by taking down threats that would normally get in his way, then send him in to sweep behind screens. terrakion is taken care of by my scarfed infernape. i obviously have to lose someone for that to happen, but with team preview, i can see who i can afford to lose and then send in ape. not many are expecting it scarfed so it usually kos with close combat.

all steels that would get in the way are taken care of by magnezone generally. and dragons don't do a whole bunch to togekiss after screens are up anyway. hazards are generally bounced by espeon, but a rapid spinner would be nice, just couldn't find a way to fit one on.

so there's the basic layout and maybe some answers to your questions? now that you know the idea, what kind of suggestions do you have?

@BTzz
i've been really liking magnezone. jirachi is one of the counters i needed to look out for with jirachi since it is faster than me and can paralyze me or flinch me to death. every time i've switched into jirachi with magnezone it's been an easy kill. he's been great. wish is something that would be incredibly handy though. i'll give the switch a try and see what happens.
i'll try the flare blitz out as well. thanks for the suggestions!
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I highly agree with what BTzz says. Magnezone takes out steel types which is good but do you really need Magnezone? Swampert can stop most steel types bar Nattorei and Infernape is a threat to all of them with STAB Super-Effective Fire/Fighting Moves. So Jirachi would be a better choice.

Next thing I see is a weather problem? are you prepared for Sand? Terrakion and Landorus will almost certainly be coming your way if you face Sandstorm. Terrakion can OHKO pretty much everything with the appropriate move bar Swampert, and with a Choice Scarf it speedties with Infernape. Landorus Is just dead powerful so as you said, you will have to lose something for Infernape to revenge kill it, but what if they switch out? Lose something else?

Not really sure how to fix this, but be aware of weather
 
Id strongly reconsider Gastrodon.
Gastrodon is better than Swampert. It hurts me to say that, seeing that Swampert is my Favorite pokemon of all time... Gastrodon is bulkier than it seems. It can take hits pretty well and where swampert would fail against Rain teams(and water pokemon in general), Gastrodon really shines.
 
@antiantiguy - i'm currently testing the jirachi thing. the thing is infernape is still a rough switch into too a lot of stuff. so i don't like depending on him for taking on steels or switching him into much other than fire and grass type moves. and the only check i can think of to both landorus and terrakion might be azumarril. but that would still be a revenge as its defenses aren't great. possibly gengar? he could switch into any earthquakes or close combats.
and sandstorm is the one that cause the most problems, but i've switched to the defensive nasty plot and that works a little better because with screens up, i still don't lose a ton of health and leftovers recovers the sand damage. but yeah any suggestions to the remedy would be welcome.

@chunx93 - i understand gastrodon has some bulk, but swampert has excellent rounded defenses. and are you saying it's better in rain due to storm drain? it is something to consider, but i haven't really had an issue with rain teams yet. i will keep it mind though
 
Starmie rapes your team so maybe try a Blissey or Ferrothorn instead of Magnezone,which looks like dead weight. Or a more offensive approach would be to replace Swampert with a Scarf Rotom W and replace Ape with bulky Volcarona?
 
@chunx93 - i understand gastrodon has some bulk, but swampert has excellent rounded defenses. and are you saying it's better in rain due to storm drain? it is something to consider, but i haven't really had an issue with rain teams yet. i will keep it mind though
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not just in rain. Storm drain gives gastrodon an immunity and boost to spAtk when hit by a water move(im sure you know that). if your team is struggling against a specific water pokemon gastrodon is better, if not swampert is fine.
rain teams arent as common on smogon as RM due to swift swim+drizzle on the same team being banned.
 
@darkerones - haven't had a huge issue with starmie. magnezone has been a safe switch in to starmie. but a lot of people have been saying i should replace magnezone. so i'm currently trying some different pokes out. i'll keep blissey and ferrothorn in mind. swampert is for both blocking electrics and settin up stealth rock, something rotom w can't do. and a bulky volcarona wouldn't help with the revenge killing my infernape is for. any specific reason you would volcarona over infernape?

@chunx93 - yeah. storm drain could be handy. swampert has been good just since he plays 2 roles where gastrodon would only be playing one.
 
Your team is weak to a number of threats. The most notable are; Terrakion, DDDragonite (with Marvel Scale intact) and SubHeatran with HP [Grass]

Your only way to deal with Dragonite is by sacrificing either Swampert or Infernape to break its Marvel Scale so that the other can KO with an Ice-type move. Terrakion demolishes most things on your team, and the only way to kill it is by revenging with Infernape (unless it used Rock Polish, or Swords Dance when Infernape and Espeon are down, in which case its: gg.) SubTran can't come in easily but when it is in and has a Substitute up in can do real damage to your team; OHKOing everything bar Espeon with Light Screen and Togekiss.

To remedy this I would recommend the following Pokemon:

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Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
-Toxic
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Protect

Gliscor helps immensely against Terrakion. It resists or is neutral to all the common moves Terrakion runs (Close Combat, Stone Edge, X-Scissor) and can hit back with a STAB super effective Earthquake. It also can stall out Dragonite's Outrages until it confuses itself thanks to Protect and can hurt it when Marvel Scale is broken with Ice Fang. However it will usually lose to Heatran; which is where the next Pokemon comes in.

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 176 HP / 128 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Taunt
-Stone Edge

Gyarados easily takes care of Heatran as it can take a Fire Blast well thanks to its good Special Defense, decent HP and Water-typing. Gyarados also lowers Dragonite's Attack with Intimidate and hits it with Stone Edge.

To make space I recommend removing Magnezone and Shaymin. Gliscor is immune to Electric attacks as opposed to only resisting them and has many fewer weaknesses than Shaymin, as well as being able to stall out a large number of Pokemon. Gyarados can set up on a lot of Steel-types thanks to Taunt, such as Skarmory, Forretress (although Volt Switch would be a tiny bit annoying), Ferrothorn and SpD Jirachi. So basically instead of killing Steels and they being dead weight Gyarados sets up on them, kills them and then can hurt a lot of the other team thanks to its resistance to common priority moves (Bullet Punch, Mach Punch etc)
 
@alexis - the main reason i am running shaymin over celebi is because of u-turn. this hits celebi harder than it would shaymin and being that one of my main counters is rotom w, shaymin fits better there

@skullkandy - gliscor would be a good poke. the main concern is still rotom w. gliscor doesn't have nearly as good of synergy with swampert that shaymin has. and rotom w still becomes a huge threat if it has hidden power grass. It could then take on gliscor and infernape with hydro, swampert with HP grass, and gyrados and togekiss with volt switch. by taking out shaymin and magnezone, i'm wide open to this guy. even if he doesn't have HP grass, he still has the ability to hydro swampert in a 2-3HKO while swampter can do nothing but roar. any ideas that would remedy the weakness to rotom?
 
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