Tornadus (Substitute) [QC 0/3]

[Harsha]

Tornadus

[SET]
Name: Substitute
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Hidden Power [Ice]
Move 3: Hurricane
Move 4: Focus Blast
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid / Modest
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Why this deserves to be on-site

• Unlike the Choice set and the Acrobatics set, this is a really uncommon set, adding to the surprise factor
• Gets very good coverage
• Prankster allows you to set up a Sub with priority, and is great for blocking status
• Hurricane is great STAB and it hits super hard
• Focus Blast is great because you can hit the Steels and Rock types that wall the set effectively, and you can also get neutral coverage on Electric types

Additional Comments

• Remember, this set is designed for Rain teams. Hurricane is basically useless without the Rain, and Tornadus won't be nearly as effective
• The EVs maximize Special Attack and Speed
• I can use a Modest Nature because I can set up a Sub, so I'm not to worried about getting outsped.
• Leftovers gives you the ability to heal yourself while you set up Subs
• Also, this set can beat Tornadus's normal killers like Scizor on the switch because the Sub protects you from the opponents' move
• This set doesn't receive Life Orb damage like the standard set, and is able to switch between moves unlike the Choice sets
• Paralysis isn't a problem due to Subs, and the ability to dodge Toxic is helpful because your sweeps are prolonged
• Agility is another option over Hidden Power, as it allows you to boost Speed to get rid of Scarfers

Team Mates and Counters

• Definitely use Politoed, because this set really wants Rain
• If Sand is up, Tornadus cannot heal itself after setting Subs
• You would like a way to effectively deal with the ever-common Rotom-W, because he walls Tornadus really well. Of course, if Rotom-W does not carry Thunderbolt, there isn't much he can do other than take out the Sub
• Specially Defensive variants of Jirachi give Tornadus a headache, so having a Pokemon like Magneton or Magnezone could be very beneficial, as could Dugtrio
• Tornadus wants Stealth Rock on the opponent's side badly; he scores a solid 2HKO on standard Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock in play (After entry hazards: (64.82% - 75.57%) 2 hits to KO with Leftovers)
• Rapid Spin support is appreciated

Well, that's it. I'll provide some logs after further testing. Thanks for reading!

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Can you provide an actual reason to use Agility + the Modest nature as opposed to Tornadus's usual Rain set (which pretty much outruns everything and gets the KOes it needs with hazards). Under the "Why this set deserves to be one-site" section, there aren't any actual explanations regarding the use of Agility, and the only commentary on its usefulness is in the AC, for "more power", apparently. What Pokemon are hurt by this that can't be destroyed by the standard set?

 

[Rakan]

I'm fairly certain this has already been rejected, or something similar was rejected.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

It was Agility Thundurus, so this set wasn't rejected per se.

 

[Garganator]

Can you provide an actual reason to use Agility + the Modest nature as opposed to Tornadus's usual Rain set (which pretty much outruns everything and gets the KOes it needs with hazards). Under the "Why this set deserves to be one-site" section, there aren't any actual explanations regarding the use of Agility, and the only commentary on its usefulness is in the AC, for "more power", apparently. What Pokemon are hurt by this that can't be destroyed by the standard set?

And I would add one thing - do you really need Max Speed ? Tornadus is naturally really fast and after Agility with little Spe EVs you'll outspeed pretty much everything after Agility. I think it would be better to invest a bit in bulk for easier set-up. Another reason to not go with Max Speed is Prankster, so it's hard to Taunt him anyway (unless it's opposite faster Prankster user with Taunt, mostly Timid Tornadus and IMO it's still not worth it. It would be better to work around him IMO before trying to set this up).

 

[Harsha]

Can you provide an actual reason to use Agility + the Modest nature as opposed to Tornadus's usual Rain set (which pretty much outruns everything and gets the KOes it needs with hazards). Under the "Why this set deserves to be one-site" section, there aren't any actual explanations regarding the use of Agility, and the only commentary on its usefulness is in the AC, for "more power", apparently. What Pokemon are hurt by this that can't be destroyed by the standard set?

I added explanations for Agility--it allows Tornadus to outspeed Scarfed threats and allows it to retain the ability to switch moves. Also, the difference between the two sets is that Tornadus also is immune to status behind a Sub. Tornadus doesn't lose HP every turn while attacking as well, adding to the list of uses.

I'm fairly certain this has already been rejected, or something similar was rejected.

Oh, I hope that isn't the case. I thought he was pretty original...

And I would add one thing - do you really need Max Speed ? Tornadus is naturally really fast and after Agility with little Spe EVs you'll outspeed pretty much everything after Agility. I think it would be better to invest a bit in bulk for easier set-up. Another reason to not go with Max Speed is Prankster, so it's hard to Taunt him anyway (unless it's opposite faster Prankster user with Taunt, mostly Timid Tornadus and IMO it's still not worth it. It would be better to work around him IMO before trying to set this up)

I see the reasoning backing lower Speed EVs. I'll test him out with more bulk and tell you what I think.

 

[danilo]

I fail to see what this set offers. If im using a rain team, i much rather be spamming a spec'd Hurricaine. What's the point of this set if it's still walled by the exact same thing as the specially based set? I don't know if because it's a "REALLY uncommon set" and because it can "outspeed and kill scarfed threats with ease". As AccidentalGreed said, Tornadus is already very fast and I don't know if Agility is truly necessary.

 

[Harsha]

I fail to see what this set offers. If im using a rain team, i much rather be spamming a spec'd Hurricaine. What's the point of this set if it's still walled by the exact same thing as the specially based set? I don't know if because it's a "REALLY uncommon set" and because it can "outspeed and kill scarfed threats with ease". As AccidentalGreed said, Tornadus is already very fast and I don't know if Agility is truly necessary.

Spamming Hurricane is perfectly fine, but I think that it won't be good if a faster threat comes onto the field. Namely, if a Scarf Terrakion or Banded Scizor comes in for a revenge kill, you have one more turn to attack because of the Sub. Also, what I meant by the "uncommon set" is that most people expect a Choiced Tornadus, a Bulk Up Tornadus, or a Life Orb + 4 attack Tornadus. He can force switches and then set up a Sub and proceed to make the right move from that point.

 

[danilo]

I understood what you meant about uncommon. What I fail to understand is how the speed is necessary. The set already on site and the set that you just posted are meant to sweep in the late game(I'm assuming that's what your set wants to do). The set already on site does a just as well, if not a better job of late game cleaning. Both of the sets are checked by the same thing, both of the sets want the same partners, why not just mention Agility in AC as opposed to a set?

 

[Harsha]

Alright. That's fair enough--I can change this set to a Subbing cleaner with more coverage and mention Agility in the AC.

EDIT: I finished the OP. Does this look better? I realized after persuasion that Agility did not help too much, and you can replace it with coverage moves to make Tornadus a better cleaner.

 

[Rakan]

I don't see the point in using Substitute over Taunt which has way more versatility in OU. The only reason the Bulk Up set utilizes Substitute is because Tornadus's Subs won't break after a few boosts. A bigger mention in the AC of the on-site set will suffice.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Since this doesn't even run Agility anymore, all you did is literally add Substitute onto the standard set. I don't see why this just can't get a slash; not like just by adding Substitute Tornadus plays extremely differently or anything. Regardless, change the set name to Substitute. Also, de-slash Hidden Power Ground since it is basically worthless.

 

[Harsha]

Since this doesn't even run Agility anymore, all you did is literally add Substitute onto the standard set. I don't see why this just can't get a slash; not like just by adding Substitute Tornadus plays extremely differently or anything. Regardless, change the set name to Substitute. Also, de-slash Hidden Power Ground since it is basically worthless.

Fixed. Thanks.

 

[zdrup15]

The Rain Abuser set on-site already offers the same coverage and protection to status thanks to Taunt, while hitting harder thanks to Life Orb. Also, Leftovers are mentioned on the on-site set's Additional Comments, which is enough imo.

QC REJECTED 1/3

 

[FrEaKPoKeMoN]

I much rather abuse specstorn, as Hurricane is way more powerful, and TOrnadus is usually a Hit-And-Run Pokemon, Hurricane and switch, honestly you don't need any other attack apart from Hurricane, which makes choice specs ideal. Just slap a scarf if your worried about scarfers so much, as Torn with sub is just blah, sure it can sub up on T-Wave, but its REAL goal is to sweep. Thundurus may be able to use sub with nasty plot, but Torn doesn't have the nasty plot. Agility is rather redundant too, with base 111 speed! Sub + Bulk Up might work, but this set is a total no in my book.

 

[Harsha]

Yeah, to be honest, I've been comparing the two sets and Specs started to work much better. You can delete / move this whenever you need.