Torrential Doubles

Greyfeld

So, I've spent a few hours making tweaks to this team. Being new to competitive battling, I'm a little unsure of where to make changes to improve this lineup. This is a rain dance team for doubles. So please keep that in mind when you critique it.

Ludicolo - Leftovers
Modest
Swift Swim
60 HP/196 Spe/252 SpA
-Rain Dance
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot

Toxicroak - Black Sludge
Jolly
Dry Skin
252 Atk/100 Def/92 SpD/64 Spe
-Substitute
-Fake Out
-Poison Jab
-Focus Punch

Kingdra - Damp Rock
Modest
Swift Swim
88 Def/92 SpD/76 Spe/252 SpA
-Rain Dance
-Protect
-Surf
-Dragon Pulse

Gengar - Wise Glasses
Modest
Levitation
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
-Will-O-Wisp
-Thunder
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast

Floatzel - Muscle Band
Jolly
Swift Swim
32 HP/48 Def/252 Atk/176 Spe
-Taunt
-Crunch
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch

Bronzong - Damp Rock
Relaxed
Levitate
252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def
-Rain Dance
-Reflect
-Stealth Rock
-Explosion



So, Ludicolo and Toxicroak lead. Originally I had Kingdra leading, but Ludicolo has better SpD, and weaknesses that are less prevalent. Leftovers over Damp Rock, because it keeps him afloat longer, and if I'm not sweeping my opponent, I usually end up switching in Bronzong or Kingdra within the first 5 turns anyway.

Toxicroak is just a beast in this setup. Fake Out first turn allows me to set up rain dance by flinching the biggest threat in my opponent's lead. Substitute + Black Sludge + Rain healing + Surf means that he has to be on the receiving end of a major beatdown, or get a solid hit from Earthquake or a Psychic attack before he goes down. Granted, it does happen, but many times he comes back from the edge of death over and over again, giving him tons of longevity to deal damage. If the opponent allows him to hide behind the substitute, he gets to go crazy with Focus Punch. My only real uncertainty with his set is Poison Jab... I was considering Gunk Shot, but I'm not a huge fan of the 70% hit chance.

I set up Bronzong as a Torrential Bronzong, except I changed his nature to Relaxed, because I noticed a significant issue with Trick Room teams, considering half my team has Swift Swim. I'm considering dropping Stealth Rock for Hypnosis because switching happens less in doubles than singles, but I'm not a huge fan of the 60% hit chance.

Obviously, Gengar is there as explosion insurance, both offensively and defensively. I like the power that the Modest nature gives him, but I'm wondering if I should switch him to Timid... the problem is, I don't know all that much about stat numbers and how he compares to other speedy threats in that area. At the very least, it would give me a chance to outspeed other non-timid Gengars. I threw Will-O-Wisp on him for lack of any ideas of what else to put on him, though it doesn't strike me as particularly necessary.

I know that Kabutops is generally preferred over Floatzel, but I've found that his 115 base speed, full speed EVs, and jolly nature, make him outspeed pretty much any major threat, even if I'm having problems keeping the rain going (which has happened a couple times, especially against Sunny Day teams). I thought the Muscle Band was useful to add more power to his attacks without leaving me locked into a single attack, a la Choice Band. And Taunt is just extremely useful to keep buffer/debuffer threats from setting up (trick room, sunny day, swords dance, etc etc). Admittedly, I'd like to set him as my lead, being my only taunter, but he works better as a late game sweeper than as a lead, with how squishy he is.

As I said, Trick Room teams pose an issue from time to time, but I find that switching in to Bronzong immediately helps, especially since he'll almost always go first, and I get him to set up Reflect immediately to try to mitigate some damage while i'm waiting for Trick Room to fall off. If I think a trick room is coming, I'll Fake Out with Toxicroak while Ludicolo switches out for Floatzel, so I can taunt it out the next turn. Though more times than not, I have to eat the first Trick Room, because it's not always easy to predict a team that uses it. And if they're running a Dusknoir lead, there's pretty much nothing I can do about it, period.

Sunny Day teams are probably the biggest pain though. Having a slow Rainy Day lead I usually get my weather to stick on the first round. But usually on round 2 or 3, I end up eating a Sunny Day + Solar Beam, which really starts to wrecks things very quickly.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention that I know a few of my pokemon have a little bit of a defensive EV spread, but that's because I felt that for double battles, they should have a little more survivability, to deal with the chance of getting double teamed.
 
The reason this isn't getting any attention is that shoddy currently has no doubles simulator, so the only doubles setup anyone really prepares for is the standard nintendo tournament doubles setup - which is four pokemon. Basically, this team is for a type of game nobody here is really playing. Also, it helps if you include images, so people who aren't familiar with your team can get a mental image (spatial memory is quicker to catch on than verbal memory). Mostly the first thing, though.

Rumor has it that Shoddy 2 is in production and will support doubles battles, so maybe you should save this team until then.
 
Scoopapa said:
The reason this isn't getting any attention is that shoddy currently has no doubles simulator, so the only doubles setup anyone really prepares for is the standard nintendo tournament doubles setup - which is four pokemon. Basically, this team is for a type of game nobody here is really playing. Also, it helps if you include images, so people who aren't familiar with your team can get a mental image (spatial memory is quicker to catch on than verbal memory). Mostly the first thing, though.

Rumor has it that Shoddy 2 is in production and will support doubles battles, so maybe you should save this team until then.
Click to expand...

o.O i wasn't aware that nintento tournament doubles was only 4 pokemon. Hrm... would it be safe to assume that when Shoddy 2 goes live, standard doubles will also be 4 pokemon?
 
The reason I haven't rated this team yet is that it's posted in the OU RMT section, which I ignore. I assume all doubles RMTs are put into the 'Other Teams' section. Give me a while to look it over and I'll give it a rate.
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
The reason I haven't rated this team yet is that it's posted in the OU RMT section, which I ignore. I assume all doubles RMTs are put into the 'Other Teams' section. Give me a while to look it over and I'll give it a rate.
Click to expand...

There should honestly be a "doubles" forum... having to stick it in "other" is ridiculous.
 
Yeah, I agree that there should be a separate area for Doubles RMTs.

Anyhow, here's the promised rate. Overall, your team looks pretty solid. It's very straightforward, as many Rain Dance teams are. Hit 'em fast and hard.

I haven't got much to say about your Ludicolo. It's pretty standard. Depending on how long your Ludicolo is living on average, I'd put Sitrus Berry on it instead of Leftovers. If your Ludicolo doesn't live more than four turns most of the time, switch to Sitrus Berry.

Your Toxicroak is fascinating. Normally I recommend against Substitute in Doubles, but with Dry Skin and all of its other recovery, it seems very viable. I'd worry about its damage-dealing capability, but Focus Punch has that covered. I'd worry about Focus Punch not going off, but I see your point about the opponent concentrating on Toxicroak's partner, what with all its recovery ability. If they do focus on Toxicroak, its partner can do whatever it wants unhindered. I have to say that I'm very impressed. If I ever train a Rain Dance Toxicroak, this will be it.

The very first thing you need to do with your Kingdra is to take all of the EVs out of its defenses and put them in HP. This should make your Kingdra take about 5% less damage on average (as a fraction of your total HP). Your moveset looks good, but I'm worried about Surf's effect on the second half of your team. Floatzel can take it OK, but Gengar and Bronzong are going to be hurting. I'm not suggesting you get rid of Surf, but you might consider either replacing Protect with another Water-type attack (Hydro Pump) or putting Protect on your Pokémon that dislike getting hit by Surf.

Wise Glasses are nice, but your Gengar could probably make more use out of a Focus Sash. It's pretty fragile. If you don't like Will-O-Wisp, you could always replace it with Sludge Bomb, Destiny Bond, Toxic, Haze, Pain Split, Skill Swap, or Role Play. The options are endless.

Your Floatzel's moveset is fine, but its EVs confuse me. What exactly are you looking to outrun with 176 EVs in Speed, and what level are your Pokémon?

I'd definitely get rid of Stealth Rock on Bronzong, but you don't have to replace it with Hypnosis. I'd give it Gyro Ball. Just make sure that in addition to a Speed-lowering nature, your Bronzong has 0 Speed IVs. In fact, a Brave nature would probably be worthwhile with Explosion. You should also consider giving it a Macho Brace, which will double the power of Gyro Ball (up to a maximum of 150) and allow you to move before a lot more Pokémon under Trick Room.

By the way, how is SolarBeam wrecking you? Half of your Pokémon resist it and only one is weak to it.
 
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