Toxicroak (QC 2/3)

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[Overview]

<p>Toxicroak is yet another one of those Fake Out-using Fighting-types, and with Hitmontop, Scrafty, Infernape and Hariyama running round the metagame you may question what it has to stand out from the competition. The answer lies in its ability Dry Skin, which is a godsend for Toxicroak in the doubles metagame, allowing it to merrily support rain teams while Surf-spamming partners replenish its health bar. Toxicroak's movepool comprises a neat mixture of attacking and supporting options, topped by the ever-useful Fake Out, which is an enormous asset to any Pokemon lucky enough to get it. Its unique Poison/Fighting typing is a mixed bag, giving it some nice resistances including a rare resistance to the common Fighting/Dark coverage, but also some crippling weaknesses to Psychic- and Ground-type attacks, and an ineffectual Poison STAB. Additionally, it faces competition from other Fighting types, most notably the ubiquitous Hitmontop, who also gets Intimidate and Wide Guard, outclassing it in many regards. If you are going to use Toxicroak, run rain and abuse Dry Skin, as otherwise other Fake Out users will be of more use.</p>

[SET]

name: Rain Utility
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Cross Chop / Drain Punch
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Dry Skin
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Toxicroak shouldn't be straying too far from this set. Fake Out is too good to pass up, as the potential for free damage and an opportunity for Toxicroak's partner to work with relative freedom for a turn can be game-changing. The choice of Fighting-type STAB is a tough one, but, despite being frustratingly miss-prone at times, Cross Chop is narrowly better, as it allows Toxicroak to achieve OHKOs on the likes of Hydreigon, Darkrai, Mamoswine, and Abomasnow, and a 2HKO on Ferrothorn, that would not otherwise be assured, and the fast-paced nature of doubles means that Drain Punch's healing is less useful. However, Drain Punch can be used for its consistency and healing, and with additional healing from Dry Skin can make Toxicroak a deceptively tough nut to crack. Sucker Punch has brilliant coverage with Cross Chop, hitting everything at least neutrally bar Heracross and other Toxicroak. Sucker Punch also does big damage to the likes of Latios, and allows Toxicroak to get around its middling speed stat. Protect is a staple, present on the vast majority of non-choiced doubles movesets, and Toxicroak is too frail to be an exception. Remember, when you use Protect in the rain, you get 12.5% health back for free.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Life Orb is the item of choice for this set as Toxicroak doesn't hit very hard without it, and Dry Skin naturally offsets Life Orb recoil. Since Toxicroak is intended to stick around and support rather than blow massive holes in the opponent, a Life Orb is better than elemental Gems. A Jolly Nature is suggested to outrun Jolly Mamoswine, Adamant Excadrill (in rain) and speed tie Modest Hydreigon, and destroy them all with Cross Chop; however, if you have a Kingdra in your team you will have no trouble beating these anyway, so an Adamant nature can be used instead to do more damage to Chople Tyranitar and Ferrothorn and achieve a possible OHKO on Latios.</p>

<p>Toxicroak also gets cool support options like Taunt and Feint, which can be used. In particular, Feint has great synergy with Fake Out, as you can score free damage on an opponent predicting a Fake Out and selecting Protect; likewise, Taunt works beautifully with Sucker Punch as it prevents an opponent playing around Sucker Punch with status moves. However, in both of these cases, Toxicroak will have to give up one of the listed moves, and it really needs all of them to work at its best. These moves also require good prediction, as Feint is a wasted move should the target use anything other than Protect, and several common targets of Taunt like Cresselia and Togekiss will flat-out destroy Toxicroak should they choose to attack it. Substitute is another option to consider, as Dry Skin allows Toxicroak to make an almost indefinite number of Substitutes if necessary. It also encourages the opponent to attack Toxicroak, making Sucker Punch harder to play around.</p>

<p>Toxicroak’s Fighting STAB is hugely helpful to rain for two reasons: firstly, it heavily damages Tyranitar and Abomasnow, making it play a big part in winning the weather war, and secondly it destroys various Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and the rare Chansey, that rain traditionally struggles to break through. For teammates, Politoed is the most obvious as it brings rain. As well as the obvious benefit of Drizzle, Politoed can heal Toxicroak with Surf and use Helping Hand to allow Toxicroak’s moves to achieve more OHKOs, particularly Sucker Punch, which can now reliably kill Latios and Chandelure, and take a huge chunk out of Jellicent. Other rain abusers may also take advantage of the Dry Skin / Surf combination, particularly Ludicolo, who is additionally able to remove Gastrodon, a prominent threat to Toxicroak, and Manaphy, who will find it easier to set up a Tail Glow boost with support from Toxicroak’s Fake Out. Torndaus is a great partner, because it discourages Earthquake and Intimidate, two things Toxicroak hates. Scizor, Metagross and Genesect deal with the Psychic-types Toxicroak would rather avoid, while also benefiting from rain softening their weakness to Fire-type attacks.</p>


[Other Options]


<p>Although the options in the main set are generally the best, Toxicroak has other options to play with if it wants to. Gunk Shot and Poison Jab are available Poison STABs, but Poison is an awful type offensively speaking; additionally Gunk Shot's accuracy is even worse than Cross Chop's. Swords Dance and Bulk Up are set-up options but Toxicroak lacks the bulk to set up consistently in such a fast-paced metagame, and Nasty Plot is even worse due to a poor special attack stat and special movepool. Rain Dance is useful to help win weather wars but you are often better off trying to kill the opposing weather setter and switching Politoed back in, as Toxicroak has a good match-up versus Tyrantar and Abomasnow. Sludge Wave, Rock Slide and Earthquake are your best options for a spread move, but none offers coverage as good as Sucker Punch. Stone Edge can be used to hit the likes of Volcarona and Thundurus, and particularly lures Volcarona who will often assume it is safe to set up, but its accuracy is a let-down. Ice Punch can OHKO various things that are 4x weak to it, but most of these outrun Toxicroak and OHKO first, so speed control support is a necessity. As far as different items go, Black Sludge or Leftovers are conceivably useful if you are really putting as much effort into keeping Toxicroak alive for as long as possible. Shuca Berry could let Toxicroak live an otherwise fatal Earthquake. Focus Sash is alright because of Toxicroak’s frailty but is broken by any weather that isn’t rain, including sun due to the negative side-effect of Dry Skin.</p>


[Checks & Counters]


<p> Because of Toxicroak’s regenerative capabilities, the best way to kill it is in a single hit. Fortunately, due to its lacklustre defenses, that isn’t very hard. Powerful Earthquake users like Garchomp and the Landorus forms are good examples. Mamoswine and Excadrill (outside of sand) can do the same but need speed control because they are outsped and crushed with Cross Chop or Drain Punch. Gastrodon’s Earth Power also does huge damage, even OHKOing with investment, and Gastrodon does well against rain in general. Offensive Psychic types like Latios and Deoxys-A destroy it but must be wary of Sucker Punch; bulkier Psychic types who don’t care about Sucker Punch like Cresselia, Metagross and Jirachi win easily. Bulky Ghost types can play around Sucker Punch with status, although Toxicroak can win if it carries Taunt; Sableye, with Prankster-accelerated Will-o-Wisp, is a particularly good counter. As the only major user of Flying STAB, Tornadus, both the Defiant and Prankster variants, beats it with Acrobatics or Hurricane. Scizor’s Bullet Punch leaves a gaping hole in Toxicroak, and Scizor can also OHKO with Acrobatics. Volcarona exploits Dry Skin to do huge damage: Fire Gem Overheat from the moth is capable of killing Toxicroak in one hit IN THE RAIN. Additionally, it can set up Quiver Dances with impunity due to its Fighting-type resist: even if Toxicroak attempts to stop this with Fake Out it risks being burnt by Flame Body. Toxicroak is also killed by really strong neutral attacks: Thundurus-T’s Thunder is a good example. Amoonguss can just spam Rage Powder in Toxicroak's face and Toxicroak can do little about it unless it has Taunt or Ice Punch. If all else fails, you can also take away the rain that replenishes Toxicroak. Ninetales does this well as sunlight damages Toxicroak, but Ninetales may get rough treatment from Toxicroak's Water-type teammates. Also, neither Tyranitar nor Abomasnow can take Cross Chop. Finally, Intimidate users generally blunt Toxicroak enough to make it switch out.</p>
 
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Good start, noobcubed! I'd slash Life Orb before Dark Gem, though. Toxicroak needs Adamant Nature if it wants to take out Latios, and Life Orb offers the boost it needs to more reliably OHKO the likes of Adamant Excadrill and Jolly Mamoswine. Be sure to mention how Dry Skin recovery helps a lot here, since it offsets LO recoil and actually grants 2% recovery (12.5-10). Drop Fighting Gem to AC.
- Without a Jolly nature you don't outrun Adamant Excadrill (in rain) and Mamoswine - if outrunning these isn't important, use Adamant instead (you can still outrun Breloom).
Specify that Mamoswine as Jolly Mamo.

I would remove Bullet Punch from OO.

I'd add Landorus, Scizor, Volcarona, and Sub Chandelure under Checks & Counters
 
Hmm, I'll have to do some calcs. I'd love it if there were a variant that could nail Latios, Excadrill, Mamoswine AND Chandleure - if it did exist it would clearly be the best. As for the other checks you mention:
Landorus: fine.
Scizor: really? Croak double-resists Bug Bite, resists Superpower, only Bullet Punch hurts really. Life Orb Drain Punch 2HKO's most variants, so it's kind of honours even. Is Acrobatics Scizor a thing?
Volcarona: In the sun only (but sun checks Toxicraok in general). Outside it, Volc doesn't do much, since it runs either Quiver Dance or Rage Powder it rarely has room for non-STAB attacks (unless it runs HP Ground to kill Heatran). A faster Rage Powder is notable (and reminds me to add Jirachi to list of bulky Psychics).
Chandelure: Is Sub even a thing? Even if it is, Taunt outruns and prevents it with correct prediction.
I'll implement the other changes, though.
 
Volcarona: Toxicroak cant do much to it outside of Sucker Punch, which has a chance to inflict burn on Toxicroak due to Volcarona's Flame Body. On the other hand Volcarona does some respectable damage with Heat Wave in the rain, thanks to Toxicroak's Dry Skin; Fire Gem Overheat is an easy OHKO even in the rain.

Chandelure: pretty much the same line of reasoning as Volcarona, except more susceptible to Sucker Punch (which Sub alleviates), if it Taunts, then it'll risk stuffing a powerful STAB Fire move.

Scizor: Even with Adamant Nature @ LO, Toxicroak only has 23% chance to 2HKO a max HP Scizor. Drain Punch from Toxicroak isn't all that impressive. In exchange, Steel Gem Bullet Punch inflicts 74-87% min to Toxicroak. Also Acrobatics is certainly a viable option, seeing how prevalent and dangerous mons like Hitmontop and Volcarona take lethal damage from it.

Please add them to C&C ;o
 
Can i have a rate please? I have a few days to write this up, I will be noticeably more busy after that. Thanks in advance.
 
Drop Shuca Berry to OO
- Dark Gem can OHKO Latios and Chandelure, which Life Orb never does
Specify Chandelure as min HP Chandelure. Also specify that Toxicroak requires Adamant Nature to achieve these OHKOs reliably.
- Ice Punch OHKOs various things that are 4x weak to it. However, as most of these targets can outrun Toxicroak and kill it first, Tailwind support is needed (in which case go Adamant).
Sucker Punch is a must on Toxicroak; if I were to use Ice Punch, it would go over Protect / Taunt.

Otherwise, amazing skelly.

QC Approved (1/3)
 
Alright, lets get this checked.

· Change this: "Little reason to use it outside of rain." to "Unfortunately, Toxicroak is very reliant on Rain to function, limiting its consistency."

· Talk WAY less about natures and EV spreads; I am fairly certain that you mentioned everything the different natures do and don't at least three times. No need for this. Use a maximum of 2 lines talking about spreads and natures; otherwise there will be too much text about it in the final product.

· Change "Tailwind support is needed" in your Ice Punch AC mention to "Speed control is needed". Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Thunder Wave exist too.

· "The Prankster variant can even set up a free sub against a predicted Sucker Punch." Remove this; Tornadus rarely runs Substitute :|

· "Fighting STAB is good for rain teams in general, allowing them to hurt Tyranitar and Abomasnow to win the weather war and break through the likes of Kyurem and Ferrothorn." Change this to the following TWO points:
1) "Most Rain teams have a hard time breaking through the likes of Kyurem and Ferrothorn; Fighting STAB helps break through these."
2) "In addition to this, Toxicroak can hit opposing Tyranitar and Abomosnow for super effective damage, providing even more utility for Rain teams"

Make these changes and I will stamp it if it looks good :)

And now for some formatting so GP doesn't have to go through this.

· Nothing on this analysis should be bold, or any other format. An effective way to get rid of this is to highlight everything and click the "Remove formatting" button in the top left-hand corner of the editing box
This means that all the tags (overview, set, move, item, ability, nature, evs, set comments, addition comments, other options and checks and counters) should be plain text (not bold)

· Overview is supposed to be [Overview]

· The EVs tag should be evs

· [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS/TEAM OPTIONS] is incorrect. It should simply be [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

· [OTHER OPTIONS] and [CHECKS AND COUNTERS] should be capitalized as [Other Options] and [Checks and Counters], respectively.
 
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Implemented Laga's changes. Apologies for the formatting noobery.

EDIT: @Laga can you rubber stamp this please? I want to get on with writing this thing up.
 
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ok some things here @noobcubed
  • When mentioning a bulky spread in AC, maybe giving an example would be cool (i can't think of one right now though so if you don't include one i won't fault you)
  • Add Rain Dance to OO
  • Stone Edge is also cool to hit things like Volcarona + pesky Flyings so put it in OO
  • In C&C bulky psychics don't really care about Sucker Punch and easily OHKO w/ their STABs so revise that statement regarding them (since they dont care bout it they dont really need to play around it)
  • Give specific mentions to like Cresselia and Musharna and stuff when speakin about bulky Psychics in C&C
  • "Mamsowine and Excadrill need to be more careful, since Toxicroak outruns them and hits hard with Drain Punch." - be sure to specify that this is only outside of Sand in the case of Excadrill
  • In AC mention that Scizor + Metagross are cool partners since they're both good in Rain and mess up annoying Psychic types
  • Add Focus Sash as a 2nd slash of the Rain Utility set pls
  • Substitute Chandelure isnt really a thing so remove that in C&C
  • Add Substitute to OO, thanks to Dry Skin is can definitely make use of this
  • "You could run Leftovers if you expect Toxicroak to last forever" - change lefties to black sludge
ok good job you can get writing now

QC 2/3
 
Cheers, implemented all changes bar Focus Sash which IMO belongs in OO due to the fact it is too easily broken by an opponent's weather (even sun because of Dry Skin).
 
Toxicroak does not outspeed Excadrill unless it's Jolly Croak versus Adamant Excadrill in a non-Sand weather.
 
will give this an actual rate later noobcubed but would you mind slashing cross chop before drain punch? hits alot harder and toxicroak is weak to so many common things that the added healing doesnt matter as much. Pwnemon and lucariojr agreed w/ me on this too so yeah. dp has better acc and healing can be decent so you can keep it slashed, but cross chop is typically better.
 
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That's what I get from modfiying movesets from Singles analyses; I didn't even know Toxicroak had Cross Chop! This will require a rewrite (and Toxicroak's damage output, it biggest flaw, is now far more satisfying), so give me a couple of days. I'll keep Drain Punch as a secondary slash, but I agree it needs as much power as possible. I'll probably drop Taunt to AC as, without the extra healing from Drain Punch, Protect is more important - thoughts anyone?
 
im cool w/ that change too, taunt is p risky when most of what you wanna taunt can mess you up (cress, thund, tr setters, etc)
 
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