Toxicroak

454.png


Overview
########

  • Unique typing typing couple with a unique ability allows for great resistances. Checking major threats such as Keldeo and Terrakion.
  • Other than its Attack stat, all of its other stats are below average.
  • A very diverse movepool allows it to be unpredictable. Though relies heavily on coverage moves.
  • Due to rain's nerf, Politoed no longer is a viable to be played on the same team as Toxicroak.
  • Thanks to steel's nerf, sucker punch now limits his counters and threatens faster steels such as jirachi, excadrill, and choice scarf heatran.
  • Huge advantage over other fighting types for being able to get passed fairies with STAB Poison Jab.

Sword Dance
########
name: Sword Dance
move 1: Sword Dance
move 2: Cross chop/ Low kick
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Poison Jab/Ice punch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant/Jolly
evs: 28 HP/ 252 Atk/ 228 Spe

Moves
========

  • Sword Dance is of course the necessity of this set. Toxicroak can find many switch in opportunities to utilize sword dance. Best to use when all of Toxicroaks checks and counters are in KO range with other moves.
  • Cross chop is Toxicroak's first fighting STAB of choice. With rain's nerf it now need immediate power as it's not trying to stay in long. If the accuracy is a put off than one can op for Low Kick. While low kick has variable base power, the power after a Sword Dance make's it a viable choice.
  • Sucker punch is one of Toxicroak's main niches. A powerful priority move nearly on par with lucario's Extremespeed. Sucker punch also compliments its Fighting STAB, giving it near perfect coverage. As stated earlier, revenge killing Toxicroak with faster steels is much harder thanks to the nerf on resisting dark.
  • The 4th move is dependent on what teammates Toxicroak has and what the team needs coverage for. Ice punch is hits flyers, dragons, Gliscor, and Landlorus-T who can get in the way for Toxicroak to sweep effeciently. Poison jab(FINALLY) has viability on Toxicroak now to get passed fairies and its strongest move against M-Venasaur. With Poison Jab Toxicroak gains perfect coverage on all of his moves as well as a secondary STAB.
Set Details
========

  • Adamant is the preferred nature as it will make the difference between a OHKO and a 2HKO. The speed EVs allow Toxicroak to outspeed a jolly Breloom before it can spore.
  • With the Speed EVs listed, Jolly lets it outspeed important threats such as jolly Mamoswine, Gliscor that invest in a little Speed EVs, and timid spec heatran.
  • The HP and Speed EVs can be played around with to suit team's needs. Investing in Toxicroak's bulk can a benefit.
  • Life orb is the item of choice for the best power.

Usage Tips
========

  • Toxicroak will find many switch in opportunities to set up Sword Dance and wreck. But it's still best to choose wisely and scout the opponents team out. Switch ins such as, non-spore breloom, CB pursuit scizor, Tyranitar, Bulky Waters, CB aqua jet/waterfall azumarill and choiced Keldeo.
  • It is best to use this set mid-late game and take out Toxicroak's counters or weaken them to put them in sucker punch KO range.
  • This set can be very variable so it is important you build it around the team's needs.
  • Mixing and matching the EVs with the moves can be a fun experiment when trying this Toxicroak set out
Team Options
========

  • Stealth Rock support is necessary for this set to turn 2HKOs into OHKOs and wear down faster counters overtime putting them into sucker punch KO range.
  • Last generation Politoed was mandatory to be played around with Toxicroak. This is no longer ideal because of rain's limited time. Rain teams should be more focused on offense rather than defense.
  • Celebi is a great partner for Toxicroak as it can on physical walls such as Hippodown, Gliscor, and Jellicent. With the latter not being afraid of status nor ghost moves.
  • Pokemon who can consistently keep Stealth Rock on the field.

Bulky Sub Punch
########
name: Sub Punch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Sucker punch
move 4: Ice punch/Poison Jab
ability: Dry Skin
item: Black Sludge
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def

Moves
========

  • Substitute compliments Toxicroak's bulk as it finds many switch in opportunities to take advantage of. Substitute blocks status and eases prediction for countering it's common counters.
  • Focus Punch coming from this toad hits like a truck without any boost. Doing enough damage to either KO Pokemon or put them in range to be finished off by sucker punch.
  • Ice punch should be the first choice as gliscor, Landorus-T and dragon/flyers are some of Toxicroak's main switch ins. Ice punch will put a huge dent in switch in Gliscors, put Landorus-T in KO range to be finished off by sucker punch, and OHKO all dragon/flyers on the switch after SR damage.
  • Poison jab can be used for the Fairies and MegaVenasaur, though you wont get past the latter. It is also a good choice if you need a safe STAB option if you can't keep Substitute in tact.

Set Details
========

  • This set focus's more on bulk of Toxicroak's typing and and keeping that bulk to attack safely behind a substitute. Toxicroak will need to switch in on checks and still have plenty enough health to force them out while it sets up a substitute.
  • The EVs are poured into bulk rather than speed this set. 252 HP EVs ensure's it gets a good amount of bulk to utilize. Since this set loses quite a bit of power without a Life Orb boost, 252 Atk EVs are necessary to do as much damage as possible with Toxicroak's coverage moves.
  • Black sludge is preferred over Life Orb because without Politied's rain, Toxicroak now needs a way to keep itself alive for a bit longer.

Usage Tips
========

  • This set can be used throughout the game. As stated consistently, it is not difficult for Toxicroak to find switch in opportunities and set up behind a sub.
  • This set scouts for opponents while dealing heavy damage to certain walls, making it easier for other sweepers to clean house more efficiently.
  • Bulky waters not named Slowbro, Keldeo, and a choiced Terrakion not locked into close combat, Ferrorthorn and many others should be the target of choice for Toxicroak to switch into.
  • It should be noted that this set is very easy to revenge kill and as such if Toxicroak is ever put into a situation where it cant make a substitute than it is better to go off with a bang from focus punch rather than allow the opponent set something up on the switch.

Team Options
========

  • As with the Sword dance set, this set requires Stealth rock to be effective. It puts necessary pokemon into KO range with sucker punch and allows Toxicroak to beat Talonflame on the switch into Substitute.
  • Since this set focuses on hurting and breaking through walls, other physical sweepers greatly appreciate this set. Lucario or Terrakion are great partners where each pokemon cover each others weakness. While the former has no problem getting past bulky ghosts with crunch.
  • If Toxicroak opts for poison jab than Celebi will be great to set up Stealth Rocks and take on the bulky grounds that Toxicroak will struggle against
  • And lastly Mixed M-Garchomp is a new partner that Toxicroak can help break through more efficiently with Poison Jab. Toxicroak attracts fairies(mainly Togekiss) who gives Mixed M-Garchomp problems.


Other Options
########

  • Toxicroak has access to Nasty Plot+ Vacuum Wave. Which may seem appealing at first but not very powerful and sweeping with the set is gimmicky at best.
  • Drain punch was a main option last Gen as it allowed Toxicroak a little more survivability in rain. This is not the case as it needs as much power as it can get.
  • Bulk Up was another standard from last Gen, however since the lost of rain, it can no longer regain HP to build up multiple Bulk Ups.
  • Gunk Shot may be used over Poison Jab in any of its sets for the power over accuracy. Gunky Shot will turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs.

Checks & Counters
########

  • Physically defensive Hippowdon can take anything toxicroak throws at him and KO with EQ
  • RestTalk Gyarados can phaze out Toxicroak, only fearing SD Poison Jab
  • Jellicent, Cofagrigus, Sableye, M-Banette and fears nothing from Toxicroak and can burn with Will-O-Wisp. The latter two being able bypass the speed with prankster.
  • M-Venasuar can take any hit from Toxicroak and put it to sleep then recover.
 
Last edited:
QC can disagree with me but I don't see much of a point to Toxicroak this generation. The rain nerf is a huge dent against its viability. The only real awkward advantage it has is immunity to Scald + Toxic from Bulky Waters, but even they are uncommon and the #1 Bulky Water (Rotom-W) carries Will-O-Wisp often.
 
While not as effective as last generation, he has a couple of niches as not being walled by faires, hitting them hard with poison jab, and the Steel nerf allows sucker punch to do some pretty heavy Damage at +2. And youd be surprised at how powerful the sub focus punch set can be. As I stated in the post, gliscors, dragons, and landorus T LOVE switching into him only to get nailed by ice punch. Talonflame and Rotom-W for some reason like to switch in as well, only to get nailed by focus punch. It has it's downsides but Toxicroak does have a trick or 2 for this metagame. His biggest counter though so far has been M-Venasaur. Who toxicroak has nearly no way of breaking through that behemoth of a tank. but hey still might drop down to UU, which im hoping for lol
 
While not as effective as last generation, he has a couple of niches as not being walled by faires, hitting them hard with poison jab, and the Steel nerf allows sucker punch to do some pretty heavy Damage at +2. And youd be surprised at how powerful the sub focus punch set can be. As I stated in the post, gliscors, dragons, and landorus T LOVE switching into him only to get nailed by ice punch. Talonflame and Rotom-W for some reason like to switch in as well, only to get nailed by focus punch. It has it's downsides but Toxicroak does have a trick or 2 for this metagame. His biggest counter though so far has been M-Venasaur. Who toxicroak has nearly no way of breaking through that behemoth of a tank. but hey still might drop down to UU, which im hoping for lol
The biggest issues involve the following:

- Poison Jab and Ice Punch are slashed together on the first set. That means you feign losing to Fairies or Landorus-T / Gliscor.
- Sucker Punch doesn't solve being killed by threats such as Terrakion who can just Earthquake Toxicroak.

But for now I'll just assume that QC might accept this. In that case...

First set should just be as follows:

- Swords Dance
- Cross Chop / Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab / Ice Punch

Mention Poison Jab vs Ice Punch relies on killing Clefable or Gliscor / Landorus-T. I would not bother with Drain Punch - it is too weak. Low Kick is there for accuracy questioning but that's about it. Note the following calculations:

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 296-348 (89.1 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 305-360 (81.5 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 216-255 (72.4 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tornadus-T isn't really used anymore so don't bother. Stone Edge isn't really worth mentioning unless you're deathly afraid of Charizard-X / Charizard-Y and can't keep Stealth Rock down.

Mention that Swords Dance Toxicroak really needs Stealth Rock down because the Flying-types will absolutely wreck its opportunities to sweep. Also mention that SD Toxicroak takes a fuckton from Mega Lucario's Flash Cannon and even from Close Combat. Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed bypass Sucker Punch's capability of KOing, so don't forget to mention that.

A few more things. For starters, mention that the usage drop in Politoed has also affected bulky Water-types greatly. In other words - they are not as common as they were back in Generation V. Though on occasion you will obviously see one, the biggest one is Rotom-W and, like I noted, Toxicroak has to be weary of switching into it. Also it is dicey to stay into threats like Gastrodon and Jellicent simply due to the former having Earthquake and the latter having Will-O-Wisp (and it resists both of Toxicroak's STABs). By the way, if you don't believe me on the Bulky Waters comment this is from last month (now granted usage stats don't mean a whole lot but it does sort of help paint the picture so to speak):

| 4 | Rotom-Wash | 19.97598% | 611286 | 15.772% | 519971 | 16.990% |
| 28 | Gyarados | 7.05393% | 266284 | 6.870% | 215523 | 7.042% |
| 34 | Tentacruel | 5.13011% | 175280 | 4.522% | 140462 | 4.590% |
| 42 | Vaporeon | 4.26880% | 171828 | 4.433% | 137365 | 4.488% |
| 47 | Blastoise | 3.72433% | 165942 | 4.281% | 134456 | 4.393% |
| 60 | Politoed | 2.44522% | 108340 | 2.795% | 94972 | 3.103% |
| 63 | Gastrodon | 2.39014% | 86552 | 2.233% | 70113 | 2.291% |

Jellicent is way down low but I think it also has a lot to do with the stats.

Anyway, mention other Pokemon that Toxicroak can at least set up on with either moves aside from bulky Water-types. Toxicroak always scares off Tyranitar, so that's one example. Ferrothorn is one that can potentially be set up on but only the Substitute variant does that one well. Azumarill locked onto anything but Play Rough is another good one. Band Scizor locked onto Pursuit. Breloom is a good one if you can find someone else to take Spore.

I'll wait for your counters section but I'm sure you know what they are.

I guess for now since I'm not QC I can't really turn down Toxicroak in general, but I highly doubt its niches will have it remain in OU this generation. At the least for very long.
 
-The debate between ice punch vs poison jab has been a coin flip up in there for toxicroak. Again as stated in the analysis it really depends on what your team needs.

-From using toxicroak fairies and gliscor/landorusT Love switching into toxicroak without a thought. Thanks for all the advice! From using it more and what it sounds like, its role this Gen is the partner for other fighting type pokemon. Its best teammates have been Terrakion and Lucario. Toxicroak's ability to get past Fairies and Bulky Grounds is phenomenal even without a +2 that i'm going to test out just a full all-out attacker set with both Ice Punch and Poison Jab, because its been midly disappointing with the 4MMS. That role wont be to sweep, just break through and make Terrakion/Lucario's job easier.

-Ill slash the stone edge because I agree with you there.
-i'll add more things for it to switch into to.
-Yes I did mention that SR is neccessary for Toxicroak and i'll put more of an emphasis in the counters page.
-Im thinking about just getting rid of mentioning Jolly as well, because so far there hasnt been a need to outspeed anything but again rarely situational.
-From rereading I forgot to put an emphasis on Rotom-W. So ill get down to adding it in there. It's a tricky one for Toxicroak to get passed.


Interesting Damage Calcs without a +2 Boost:

Vs Landorus
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 178 Def Landorus-T: 250-296 (65.4 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 296-354 (92.5 - 110.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Vs Gliscor
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 265-317 (74.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs. Clefable
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 283-338 (71.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Gyarodos
vs. Intimidate -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 133-156 (40 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

vs. Moxie 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 199-234 (59.9 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gyarados: 99-118 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO


Vs Togekiss
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 338-400 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Togekiss: 265-315 (70.8 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs. Azumarill

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Vs Sylveon
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sylveon: 335-398 (85 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Vs Volcarona

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 168-199 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 231-273 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Rotom-W
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Cross Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
If this is going to get approved, then it should be noted that this thing is a full stop to Suicune. Toxicroak is immune to both Toxic and Scald, and can get a free Swords Dance as it switches out.
 
I'm not QC, but I decided to look into Toxicroak again after they were talking about it in IRC.

Toxicroak - put bluntly - doesn't look like a promising Pokemon.

First, remember what I mentioned - the change of Drizzle was significant. It took away the absolute power Toxicroak had on the metagame because it practically trolled every Bulky Water-type. Now that Drizzle is no longer permanent it is also rarer to see. And the stats continue to show few true bulky Water-types showing on the statistics.

Secondly, the number of Pokemon it beats mono y mono is very small as well. The first problem is getting Swords Dance - it's likely to only get it on Pokemon that are Choiced. In particular Choice U-turn, Choice Water-, Choice Dark-, and Choice Fighting-type moves for starters. Out of probably the Top 20 Pokemon I can name... like 3 that are forced out by Toxicroak:

- Tyranitar in general if it isn't packing Earthquake
- Azumarill if it's locked onto Aqua Jet / Superpower / Waterfall
- Scizor locked onto Pursuit

That's about it. Maybe Ferrothorn too but it can pack STAB Gyro Ball or STAB Iron Head to fuck with it.

And third - even after a Swords Dance Toxicroak can be easy to stop. Terrakionn doesn't give two fucks about boosted Sucker Punch and can just Earthquake it out. Mandibuzz can actually result in a draw against Toxicroak (+2 4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 210-247 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). There are others that can simply shut it down since +2 Sucker Punch is unimpressive unless the opponent is very weak.

I don't think Toxicroak really stands a chance in OU this generation. With the absence of Drizzle and bulky Water-types Toxicroak has little that shines for it.

Were I QC, consider in the end I would reject this. I'm sorry bro - Toxicroak is cool and all but it just struggles way too much this generation overall. And Substitute seems awful to run as well.
 
I agree with Colonel. Swords Dance can occasionally be hard to set up, especially with weaknesses to 3 very common types (one of them being 4x effective). The only decent move set that keeps it alive for a decent amount of time is Sub-punch, but that can't compete to a Conkeldurr Iron Fist + Drain Punch. He's simply not good enough to compete with very common OU pokemon.
 
i would run gunk shot over poison jab just for the power because even with stab and +2 poison jab is still a pretty weak move.

also it being 80% acc this gen means the power is worth the lower acc over poison jab.
 
I don't get the Toxicroak hate. Yeah, it has to choose between hitting Fairy-types and Lando-T/Gliscor, but teammates exist for a reason, and it's not like Fairy-types are that difficult to handle, not to mention that Togekiss dies to +2 Ice Punch anyway. Just pack good checks to Azumarill, Clefable, and Sylveon, big deal... Rain offense is still a good playstyle, and 7 turns of rain are plenty for an offensive booster. Yeah BU and SubToxic Croak aren not viable anymore but SD? It still has great synergy on rain offense, takes on Pokemon that those teams don't like, and has plenty of time to sweep when played right.

SD should get a set.
 
After talking with Alexwolf I will allow Toxicroak under the premise of rain teams and with testing. Under those circumstances I think Toxicroak can be allowed.

Swords Dance
Drain Punch
Gunk Shot
Sucker Punch

Teammates include Politoed and Latios as well as other Pokemon on that like certain threats removed (Kingdra Keldeo for examples ).
 
Back
Top