I'll be frank here; I've never played singles very competitively. In fact, I haven't even touched gen 5 OU, though I have skimmed a few threads in its subforum. So, I don't have any input to offer on this subject, but I do want to hear from people who have started playing Doubles after playing Singles for a long time, never mind tiers and what metagame you play (here's looking at you OM people). While I always give advice to people that played Singles before Doubles, I can't say that I know where they're coming from, so I'd love it if you post your personal experiences as a beginning Doubles player so I can better help/understand more people as they switch to Doubles. If nothing else, why did you start playing Doubles?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Transitioning from Singles to Doubles
- Thread starter tofucocoa
- Start date
I came from Singles, so I guess I might as well comment.
I starting playing competitively around 2010, iirc. Apart from a few Gen 4 Ubers Doubles matches, I played little to no Doubles battles. Blah, blah, etc. After awhile (something like a year) of Singles battling, I started getting a bit bored of the bland prediction involved, namely the simplicity of it all. Conveniently enough, the Doubles ladder came up at around the same time, which was nice for a change of pace. I instantly was drawn in to the fun combinations that could be used. I actually have a replay from long, long ago, showcasing myself as something of a new player to Doubles:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9680453
Yeah, I was into Simple Beam gimmicks back then. Morever, just look at how many weaknesses my teams shared (a well played Flying- or Fire-type could have presented a lot of problems, or maybe just a Breloom). Intimidate Hitmontop alone was a good answer to this team which undervalued priority in favor of running as many spread attacks as possible (understandable approach, I guess). I also tried some Tailwind + Worry Seed Shaymin-S gimmicks alongside Regigigas, to put things into perspective. After awhile, it became apparent I had no idea what I was doing, so I started playing some VGC (stronger players) with stolen VGC teams in order to learn how to teambuild a bit better (this really payed off, I'd recommend new players try something like this to sorta get the feel of how Doubles works). I think it is a common tendency new players have to look into clever little combinations, and overlook the fact that the opponent has his own plans too. They also tend to undervalue priority a lot (at least I did) and overlook disrupting tactics (i.e. Fake Out, Encore, etc).
Anyways, summary of why I started playing Doubles:
I wanted a change of pace and soon became very interested by the large array of possibilities that Doubles offered. Overall, I just enjoyed how it wasn't as easy to know what to expect as it was in Singles. Said extremely basically, Doubles was more diverse than Singles.
I starting playing competitively around 2010, iirc. Apart from a few Gen 4 Ubers Doubles matches, I played little to no Doubles battles. Blah, blah, etc. After awhile (something like a year) of Singles battling, I started getting a bit bored of the bland prediction involved, namely the simplicity of it all. Conveniently enough, the Doubles ladder came up at around the same time, which was nice for a change of pace. I instantly was drawn in to the fun combinations that could be used. I actually have a replay from long, long ago, showcasing myself as something of a new player to Doubles:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles9680453
Yeah, I was into Simple Beam gimmicks back then. Morever, just look at how many weaknesses my teams shared (a well played Flying- or Fire-type could have presented a lot of problems, or maybe just a Breloom). Intimidate Hitmontop alone was a good answer to this team which undervalued priority in favor of running as many spread attacks as possible (understandable approach, I guess). I also tried some Tailwind + Worry Seed Shaymin-S gimmicks alongside Regigigas, to put things into perspective. After awhile, it became apparent I had no idea what I was doing, so I started playing some VGC (stronger players) with stolen VGC teams in order to learn how to teambuild a bit better (this really payed off, I'd recommend new players try something like this to sorta get the feel of how Doubles works). I think it is a common tendency new players have to look into clever little combinations, and overlook the fact that the opponent has his own plans too. They also tend to undervalue priority a lot (at least I did) and overlook disrupting tactics (i.e. Fake Out, Encore, etc).
Anyways, summary of why I started playing Doubles:
I wanted a change of pace and soon became very interested by the large array of possibilities that Doubles offered. Overall, I just enjoyed how it wasn't as easy to know what to expect as it was in Singles. Said extremely basically, Doubles was more diverse than Singles.
Last edited:
Before playing Doubles, I honestly just played any singles tier I felt like. I played OU, UU, and NU mostly, and I was pretty damn bad at all of them (luckily not that bad anymore). Therefore, it was nice to find a favorite tier :)
When I first started playing Doubles, I had literally no idea what the fuck I was doing. I tried one VGC battle with a standard OU team because why tf not. Of course, I failed extremely badly, due to normal teams obviously not working effectively in Doubles at all. After that, I actually tried a little bit, found somesuper gimmicky ok strategies, and gradually became better and better at Doubles. Since then, I have become way better at Doubles than I will ever be in singles, simply because I am too used to Dubs.
I think the reason that I am so much better at Doubles is because of the fact that I think WAY too much in Singles. With the extra layer of prediction, it becomes easier for me to make safe predictions; there are few coin-flips in Doubles. This is what makes Doubles such a "whole new world" experience for newcomers, especially with Protect mindgames. It is something that both grabs newcomers and scares them away, but since I like to think so much, it caught onto me as soon as I began finding out how to play the game.
My beginner experience on the Doubles ladder was a very different perspective of Doubles than it is today. I went around using a completely retarded team, but since I knew how to use Protect and spread moves, I felt like I was frickin amazing at the tier (This is obviously because of how shitty the ladder is). This is a mistake, because once I started chatting on irc and posting in the Doubles thread of the OM forum, I realized how mediocre my strategies where. I mean srsly... Landorus-T and Heatran on the same team, as well as After You Cinccino and a Discharge spam duo. Fuckin idiot I was haha.
If I where to give any advice to people trying to get into Doubles after playing Singles a lot, the first tip is definitely to read about the basics. Aspects of the metagame that are different from Singles, such as Protect, spread moves, and excessive Speed control are all "basics"; you absolutely need to know how and why these strategies work before trying to get into Doubles seriously. Another thing to understand is this: There are attackers and supporters. No such thing as walls. It's frickin hard to counter Pokemon in Doubles, so try to overwhelm the opposition by setting Pokemon in check. Counters do not work very well at all, as the Pokemon you are trying to counter is able to attack your other Pokemon. A great tip that I myself found useful is this: Watch Replays of the pros, these replays will almost teach you the tier by themselves.
And also we definitely need Doubles tutors in gen 6 :>
That is all.
When I first started playing Doubles, I had literally no idea what the fuck I was doing. I tried one VGC battle with a standard OU team because why tf not. Of course, I failed extremely badly, due to normal teams obviously not working effectively in Doubles at all. After that, I actually tried a little bit, found some
I think the reason that I am so much better at Doubles is because of the fact that I think WAY too much in Singles. With the extra layer of prediction, it becomes easier for me to make safe predictions; there are few coin-flips in Doubles. This is what makes Doubles such a "whole new world" experience for newcomers, especially with Protect mindgames. It is something that both grabs newcomers and scares them away, but since I like to think so much, it caught onto me as soon as I began finding out how to play the game.
My beginner experience on the Doubles ladder was a very different perspective of Doubles than it is today. I went around using a completely retarded team, but since I knew how to use Protect and spread moves, I felt like I was frickin amazing at the tier (This is obviously because of how shitty the ladder is). This is a mistake, because once I started chatting on irc and posting in the Doubles thread of the OM forum, I realized how mediocre my strategies where. I mean srsly... Landorus-T and Heatran on the same team, as well as After You Cinccino and a Discharge spam duo. Fuckin idiot I was haha.
If I where to give any advice to people trying to get into Doubles after playing Singles a lot, the first tip is definitely to read about the basics. Aspects of the metagame that are different from Singles, such as Protect, spread moves, and excessive Speed control are all "basics"; you absolutely need to know how and why these strategies work before trying to get into Doubles seriously. Another thing to understand is this: There are attackers and supporters. No such thing as walls. It's frickin hard to counter Pokemon in Doubles, so try to overwhelm the opposition by setting Pokemon in check. Counters do not work very well at all, as the Pokemon you are trying to counter is able to attack your other Pokemon. A great tip that I myself found useful is this: Watch Replays of the pros, these replays will almost teach you the tier by themselves.
And also we definitely need Doubles tutors in gen 6 :>
That is all.
This is pretty much how I got into doubles, but not replays exactly. I first played singles in 2006 at the end of gen 3, then played gen 4 for a bit but stopped before it ended until coming back in BW, which I think was some time after Excadrill was banned. My point is, all of my focus has ever been on singles, and it has been for a really long time. Then in early August, I saw the post on Smogon's front page about the VGC stream, and decided to tune in. And wow, I was hooked -- when one player had a read on the other, they could chain several moves and switches together and completely outplay their opponent. In singles, you could switch and maybe resist a hit or double switch while they take hazard damage. Basically, the plays you could make in doubles on the fly were incredibly appealing to me, since the strategy you utilize in-game is more heavily weighed than the strategy you utilize teambuilding, as long as you put adequate support moves on your team in the first place. You can construct a series of intricate turns to put you in the best position you can be with doubles' common utiltity moves like Protect, Fake Out, Taunt, and all kinds of speed control.
I guess this is why "goodstuffs" teams are so effective in doubles, and why I'm currently having tons of success with both Tailwind and Trick Room on the same team :D
I started with Shoddy Battle in gen 4. I used to basically try OU with as creative of teams as I could while not being horrible. I learned that I could be decent with my favorites, but not great.
I occasionally played some ubers, challenge cup and gen 1 in BW1 on Pokemon Online when I was bored of OU. I would frequently try to play doubles, but it was the most dead tier(even moreso than monotype and such). I eventually made the switch over to Pokemon Showdown when the initial lag reduction updates started rolling in and was sad that there still wasn't a real standard doubles tier, so I stuck with OU and a little bit of Ubers.
Finally, after messing around in the OM section for a while, I see the doubles meta getting started. I instantly decide to run as much SurfSpam as I could. It was so different from singles and I had never spent time learning it.
I'm sort of with Laga in that I felt like a boss because I knew how to use Protect and a fair amount of prediction from OU. I didn't really know the meta and was kinda bad, but I could own a fair share of the ladder(which was reeeeally bad at first, lots of improvement so far). Once I started to figure out things like how Hitmontop could fit on almost all of my teams, when attacking outweighs using Protect/Fake Out, how useful switching can still be, etc I felt a lot more confident. I began experimenting more and actually challenging more high caliber opponents on the IRC. It's kind of rough how there is a little bit of an elitist code of conduct among the better players bc I BS around a lot with stuff I've never tried before and never keep track of everything I should. But it makes me a better battler and I like the challenge.
But yea, I feel that I'm at a place where I can actually say that I'm really good at a meta and I really enjoy playing Doubles. Singles just doesn't seem to have as much depth to me and I only occasionally go back. I still have some things I want to accomplish in Doubles such as locking up a #1 spot with a low enough deviation for it to count and maybe making a viable semi-stall team since stall is so bad it will be a challenge.
Oh and Doubles replays are great! Not only can you learn a lot, but they're usually really exciting. Several predicts can go on every turn!
I occasionally played some ubers, challenge cup and gen 1 in BW1 on Pokemon Online when I was bored of OU. I would frequently try to play doubles, but it was the most dead tier(even moreso than monotype and such). I eventually made the switch over to Pokemon Showdown when the initial lag reduction updates started rolling in and was sad that there still wasn't a real standard doubles tier, so I stuck with OU and a little bit of Ubers.
Finally, after messing around in the OM section for a while, I see the doubles meta getting started. I instantly decide to run as much SurfSpam as I could. It was so different from singles and I had never spent time learning it.
I'm sort of with Laga in that I felt like a boss because I knew how to use Protect and a fair amount of prediction from OU. I didn't really know the meta and was kinda bad, but I could own a fair share of the ladder(which was reeeeally bad at first, lots of improvement so far). Once I started to figure out things like how Hitmontop could fit on almost all of my teams, when attacking outweighs using Protect/Fake Out, how useful switching can still be, etc I felt a lot more confident. I began experimenting more and actually challenging more high caliber opponents on the IRC. It's kind of rough how there is a little bit of an elitist code of conduct among the better players bc I BS around a lot with stuff I've never tried before and never keep track of everything I should. But it makes me a better battler and I like the challenge.
But yea, I feel that I'm at a place where I can actually say that I'm really good at a meta and I really enjoy playing Doubles. Singles just doesn't seem to have as much depth to me and I only occasionally go back. I still have some things I want to accomplish in Doubles such as locking up a #1 spot with a low enough deviation for it to count and maybe making a viable semi-stall team since stall is so bad it will be a challenge.
Oh and Doubles replays are great! Not only can you learn a lot, but they're usually really exciting. Several predicts can go on every turn!
Doubles allows for a lot of combinations and wider strategies than Singles, imo, while also making Trick Room good, which I love. Having two Pokémon in the field changes totally the strategy, battles are faster paced and to me they feel more RPG-y, as you can have the archetypical roles in your team, only Pokémon is heavily offensive and you don't have a good healer around :p
Singles is very mono-dimensional, for obvious reasons. Doubles is very deep in terms of strategies due not only to the fact that there's a second Mon on either side of the field, but the fact that moves have a different functionality in Doubles, such as Dual Screens having less effectiveness, spread moves (see EQ) hitting less hard, and moves that see no use in Singles (Follow Me) being commonplace.
i largely play NU, and it is definitely what I play the most. Recently, however, I've started getting into doubles, and ive found that it thinking on an entirely different level. I honestly wouldn't say it requires more thinking, but you just have to think very differently. I've seen a lot of people (doubles players of course) saying doubles is a lot deeper and more strategic, which is something I don't entirely agree with. The type of predictions you have to make differ greatly, and the fact that you are concentrating on 4 Pokemon out on the field at once is, I'm sure, largely where these points of view come from.
One thing I do love about Doubles is, as Joim mentioned, that it makes strategies such as Trick Room and Tailwind viable. These are both team archetypes I personally love, so to me it's great that they're good in doubles. I've been using BlankZero's 'Whos Who in Doubles' team, and it's brilliant (nice team). So far I'm 6-0 on the ladder, which I think is ok for a complete beginner (i know the ladder is shit but w/e). I also had a very fun battle against noobcubed at one point, in which Gastrodon did a shitton of work. I seriously love that thing and how useful it is.
Overall doubles is really fun, and differs wildly from singles, though I love to play both.
One thing I do love about Doubles is, as Joim mentioned, that it makes strategies such as Trick Room and Tailwind viable. These are both team archetypes I personally love, so to me it's great that they're good in doubles. I've been using BlankZero's 'Whos Who in Doubles' team, and it's brilliant (nice team). So far I'm 6-0 on the ladder, which I think is ok for a complete beginner (i know the ladder is shit but w/e). I also had a very fun battle against noobcubed at one point, in which Gastrodon did a shitton of work. I seriously love that thing and how useful it is.
Overall doubles is really fun, and differs wildly from singles, though I love to play both.
I've said this before, but doubles is far more a battler's game, and singles comparatively a teambuilder's game. In singles, you do have to make predictions, although, let's be honest, if you are facing a Pokemon that is threatening to set up and sweep, 90% of the time you will be switching in the counter you have prepared for such a situation (your opponent could double-switch, but that is a far smaller risk than being outright swept). It's relatively easy to prepare for every Pokemon in this way. Thus much of the skill into play before battle has even begun.
In doubles it is different. Teambuilding is still important, but it is more focused around your own team's synergy rather than finding direct answers to every Pokemon (admittedly this is something that continues to elude me). Sure, you could bring in Mamoswine to soak up Thundurus's Thunder Wave and strike back with Icicle Spear. But what if Thundurus's partner is Hitmontop? What if Thundurus decides instead to attack Mamoswine's partner Gyarados? In singles, it's relatively simple and without too much thought you can often get away with a double-switch at the worst. In doubles, stuff has to be done on a case-by-case basis, which makes it impossible to prepare for every situation in advance. Thinking on your feet is what I love so much about the meta. (And easy ladder wins due to crappiness of ladder).
Cheers. I was trying to block that one from my memory. Having railed about how teambuilding is not so important in doubles, I can't even use the excuse that it wasn't Lasagne21's team.
I got into Doubles very recently. I started battling at the tail end of BW, just before BW2. I played NU almost exclusively, then branched out to RU and Ubers. Needles to say, I was a pretty much all-singles type of battler. The keyword here is battler: I firmly believe that teambuilders do a much better job in singles in Gen V than battlers do. Doubles is the opposite for sure. In Doubles, I feel I have to rely on my thought process a little more than I had to do in Singles; I could build a team in Singles that was well-synergized defensively and can hit hard offensively and do well, but I have to think a lot more in Doubles as to what Pokemon I'm using and why. This is primarily why I enjoy Doubles exceedingly more than Singles.
The reason I got into Doubles, funnily enough, was by reommendation of Nollan. We were on his server one day (RIP ;[ ) and he told me that he had implemented NU Doubles to his server. He asked me to make a team and battle with him, but I told him that I had no idea how to battle in a Doubles format. From there, he proceeds to link me a bunch of VGC matches (we began talking about silly Dubz strategies like Skill Swap Delcatty + Haunter/Gengar cores) and I found them to be interesting. But, I soon forgot about them because I'm a putz and went on with my life. But, probably a month or so later, I learned that Nollan was like, actually really good at Doubles (the things I know about my friends, amirite?). So, I asked him to teach me Doubles. Then, I guess, the rest is history. I made this one team that was basically offensive threats on top of each other, and Nollan destroyed my life, but each time I felt like I was learning something, much unlike in Singles. So now, I've had a few really good Dubz battles (against Nollan, YoungJake, and others) and have had an all around really awesome time with the meta.
The reason I got into Doubles, funnily enough, was by reommendation of Nollan. We were on his server one day (RIP ;[ ) and he told me that he had implemented NU Doubles to his server. He asked me to make a team and battle with him, but I told him that I had no idea how to battle in a Doubles format. From there, he proceeds to link me a bunch of VGC matches (we began talking about silly Dubz strategies like Skill Swap Delcatty + Haunter/Gengar cores) and I found them to be interesting. But, I soon forgot about them because I'm a putz and went on with my life. But, probably a month or so later, I learned that Nollan was like, actually really good at Doubles (the things I know about my friends, amirite?). So, I asked him to teach me Doubles. Then, I guess, the rest is history. I made this one team that was basically offensive threats on top of each other, and Nollan destroyed my life, but each time I felt like I was learning something, much unlike in Singles. So now, I've had a few really good Dubz battles (against Nollan, YoungJake, and others) and have had an all around really awesome time with the meta.
This thread is relevant no matter what generation it's played in (ADV on of course) so I've moved it to the UT Doubles forum.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I think the main thing for absolutely new Doubles players to remember is to keep an open mind. Despite so many familiar OU faces, Doubles is an entirely different tier with its own rules regarding strategy and viability. It's as different to Singles as it is to LC, Ubers, or any other tier. You might initially be taken aback by the popularity of "outclassed" mons like Cresselia and Hitmontop, or wondering what that uncounterable beast Excadrill is doing running around, or be baffled over moves you almost never see in Singles like Rage Powder, Trick Room, Tailwind and Icy Wind. Just take a step back and remember that this is a new game you've stepped into, so don't be afraid to start learning the basics. As other people have said, watch replays and just generally experiment with stuff that sounds fun. Even if it's not that effective and you find yourself losing to begin with, you'll learn something and hopefully be able to find out more about strategies and Pokemon that you would not have otherwise considered.
I started playing Doubles around the introduction of BW2. The OU Singles meta felt very stagnant. I looked at Doubles as a way to use several of my favourites and have them be effective, and what I found was an awesome metagame with a ton of variety and strategy. It's made me enjoy a large part of the game that I had pretty much ignored before and gave me new appreciation for the way several mons, moves and strategies are balanced with regards to both Singles and Doubles. Even if you only ever play on cartridge, Doubles feels like as much of a part of Pokemon battling as Singles when it really comes down to it.
I started playing Doubles around the introduction of BW2. The OU Singles meta felt very stagnant. I looked at Doubles as a way to use several of my favourites and have them be effective, and what I found was an awesome metagame with a ton of variety and strategy. It's made me enjoy a large part of the game that I had pretty much ignored before and gave me new appreciation for the way several mons, moves and strategies are balanced with regards to both Singles and Doubles. Even if you only ever play on cartridge, Doubles feels like as much of a part of Pokemon battling as Singles when it really comes down to it.
I think I had a typical player's entry into the Doubles meta. The singles scene was looking a bit same old same old and I fancied a change.
What instantly struck and delighted me were the varieties in strategy and pokemon that you see making meaningful contributions to the game that just weren't there in OU.
Of course I tried my share of gimmicky strats until I realised that they generally work once and then people wise up to them, still I caught quite a few people off-guard with my Soak spamming Lightningrod Seaking partnered with a Discharge Thundurus (lol).
Nowadays I prefer doubles exclusively and even breed my cartridge teams with Doubles in mind thanks to Smogon Doubles opening my eyes and refreshing my view of battling, especially with the Gen 6 mechanics changes seemingly focused on Doubles it makes me feel more and more like I'm playing the game as it's meant to be played.
But...
Like any forum in Smogon, I'd say the best thing you can do initally in the doubles subsection is NOT POST and just soak in the hints and advice given and then ask questions and above all, test it out in real battles vs real people. Showdown's replay capture is an amazing tool for going over matches you win and lose to see how to get the most out of your team or see if something needs changing.
What instantly struck and delighted me were the varieties in strategy and pokemon that you see making meaningful contributions to the game that just weren't there in OU.
Of course I tried my share of gimmicky strats until I realised that they generally work once and then people wise up to them, still I caught quite a few people off-guard with my Soak spamming Lightningrod Seaking partnered with a Discharge Thundurus (lol).
Nowadays I prefer doubles exclusively and even breed my cartridge teams with Doubles in mind thanks to Smogon Doubles opening my eyes and refreshing my view of battling, especially with the Gen 6 mechanics changes seemingly focused on Doubles it makes me feel more and more like I'm playing the game as it's meant to be played.
But...
Like any forum in Smogon, I'd say the best thing you can do initally in the doubles subsection is NOT POST and just soak in the hints and advice given and then ask questions and above all, test it out in real battles vs real people. Showdown's replay capture is an amazing tool for going over matches you win and lose to see how to get the most out of your team or see if something needs changing.
I love doubles. It's the only place you can see a Hitmontop tango with a Latios and it's actually an interesting fight - mainly because of their teammates.
Learn your speed control moves. Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Tailwind. These moves will become your best friends on the battlefield. Normally having Hydreigon sitting in battle against Latios is a terrible proposition for the Hydra, but not if his teammate is Thundurus-I, who can T-Wave Latios while Hydreigon protects himself from angry Draco Meteors. In the span one one turn, the advantage has completely shifted from one side of the battlefield to the other.
Scratch that about speed control being your best friend. Your REAL best friend is Protect. You will need to learn Protect inside and out - how likely it is that the user will be attacked that turn, how capable you are of coming out of your Protect next turn to deal with the thing you're trying to defend yourself from, etc. People will leave Pokemon unprotected occasionally because they are certain the opponent is expecting them to use Protect, and their opponent gets a nasty surprise when it doesn't.
Doubles opens up opportunities for a lot more creativity than any Singles tier. It all depends on what you need your teammates to do.
A side note is that Sleep Clause does not exist in VGC Doubles, so carrying Spore Pokemon like Amoonguss is a very good option.
There are also moves which work specifically in Doubles, like Wide Guard, Follow Me, and Rage Powder. Learn what can use them and what they can primarily do to benefit the team. Supporters really shine in Doubles, and some Pokemon like Gyarados even forego their offensive Singles roles in favor of becoming supporters in Doubles (Gyarados has a lot going for it with Intimidate and Thunder Wave, plus generally good typing). Also Fake Out gets new life breathed into it in Doubles.
Speaking of Intimidate, it's one of the very best abilities in Doubles, as it can shut down not one, but two physically-based Pokemon. Having an Intimidater is a very good idea, and many of them can provide further support or offensive options. Gyarados can Thunder Wave, Salamence and Staraptor can use Tailwind, and others.
Reading up on Doubles and VGC movesets for Pokemon on the main Smogon site. A lot of times they will have EVs tailored for specific reasons, so it's a good idea to figure out what you need to cover. Original EV sets also have the tendency to do well.
Above all, the best thing you can do to get into Doubles is get hands-on experience after reading up on some ideas and watching videos on how some high-level players work the field. Take my advice with a grain of salt, and figure out your own plan. Doubles is easily my favorite battle style, and I always love seeing new players.
Learn your speed control moves. Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Tailwind. These moves will become your best friends on the battlefield. Normally having Hydreigon sitting in battle against Latios is a terrible proposition for the Hydra, but not if his teammate is Thundurus-I, who can T-Wave Latios while Hydreigon protects himself from angry Draco Meteors. In the span one one turn, the advantage has completely shifted from one side of the battlefield to the other.
Scratch that about speed control being your best friend. Your REAL best friend is Protect. You will need to learn Protect inside and out - how likely it is that the user will be attacked that turn, how capable you are of coming out of your Protect next turn to deal with the thing you're trying to defend yourself from, etc. People will leave Pokemon unprotected occasionally because they are certain the opponent is expecting them to use Protect, and their opponent gets a nasty surprise when it doesn't.
Doubles opens up opportunities for a lot more creativity than any Singles tier. It all depends on what you need your teammates to do.
A side note is that Sleep Clause does not exist in VGC Doubles, so carrying Spore Pokemon like Amoonguss is a very good option.
There are also moves which work specifically in Doubles, like Wide Guard, Follow Me, and Rage Powder. Learn what can use them and what they can primarily do to benefit the team. Supporters really shine in Doubles, and some Pokemon like Gyarados even forego their offensive Singles roles in favor of becoming supporters in Doubles (Gyarados has a lot going for it with Intimidate and Thunder Wave, plus generally good typing). Also Fake Out gets new life breathed into it in Doubles.
Speaking of Intimidate, it's one of the very best abilities in Doubles, as it can shut down not one, but two physically-based Pokemon. Having an Intimidater is a very good idea, and many of them can provide further support or offensive options. Gyarados can Thunder Wave, Salamence and Staraptor can use Tailwind, and others.
Reading up on Doubles and VGC movesets for Pokemon on the main Smogon site. A lot of times they will have EVs tailored for specific reasons, so it's a good idea to figure out what you need to cover. Original EV sets also have the tendency to do well.
Above all, the best thing you can do to get into Doubles is get hands-on experience after reading up on some ideas and watching videos on how some high-level players work the field. Take my advice with a grain of salt, and figure out your own plan. Doubles is easily my favorite battle style, and I always love seeing new players.
I consider myself a noob when it comes to competitive battling, but I prefer Doubles to Singles. I like the fast-paced nature and the lack of entry hazards, although I'm still rubbish at reading people. I started getting interested in learning the ropes of competitive battling in Black and White so I could better compete in the VGCs, which is another reason why I got into Doubles. I just started getting to understand the basics when that gen ended. I'm looking forward to discovering the tricks of the new gen along with everybody here and hopefully continue to improve, too!
I would say that I'm a "new" player to competitive Pokemon but I am definitely not new to playing Pokemon with a competitive edge (if that makes sense).
For me it's about as simple as the fact that VGC prefers doubles, and if I ever wanted to go poke-celeb status with my uber skills then I'd like to be practiced in the proper format. Singles to me is essentially dead in that vein.
Something I have never liked about competitive Pokemon, and that has kept me a good distance away from caring much about it in the past, is how some Pokemon are just bad and some Pokemon are just good. There are always going to be tiers but in a game that has essentially hundreds of "mains" to choose from, but having just a small % of those playable characters be viable is off-putting to a player like me who mostly got in to Pokemon thinking you could make do with any of your favorites given you had the strategy. It just puts a really bored look on my face when I look at the team statistics from the last few years of VGC, with the exception of a unique team oddity here and there, they all look nearly identical and that's pretty annoying.
Doubles to me is sort of that open platform for you to whip out that mon of yours (certainly it's not an open game for all of those low-tier guys but it's wider than the singles OU) and surprise your opponent. Make them think "Oh, what's this guy going to do with this Pokemon?". I'm always trying to ensure there's a little bit of "me" in my team, so I'm not just blending in with all the other copy-cat rabbu, and I felt like this was literally impossible with singles.
For me it's about as simple as the fact that VGC prefers doubles, and if I ever wanted to go poke-celeb status with my uber skills then I'd like to be practiced in the proper format. Singles to me is essentially dead in that vein.
Something I have never liked about competitive Pokemon, and that has kept me a good distance away from caring much about it in the past, is how some Pokemon are just bad and some Pokemon are just good. There are always going to be tiers but in a game that has essentially hundreds of "mains" to choose from, but having just a small % of those playable characters be viable is off-putting to a player like me who mostly got in to Pokemon thinking you could make do with any of your favorites given you had the strategy. It just puts a really bored look on my face when I look at the team statistics from the last few years of VGC, with the exception of a unique team oddity here and there, they all look nearly identical and that's pretty annoying.
Doubles to me is sort of that open platform for you to whip out that mon of yours (certainly it's not an open game for all of those low-tier guys but it's wider than the singles OU) and surprise your opponent. Make them think "Oh, what's this guy going to do with this Pokemon?". I'm always trying to ensure there's a little bit of "me" in my team, so I'm not just blending in with all the other copy-cat rabbu, and I felt like this was literally impossible with singles.
I suspect that people see doubles are more open because the average skill level of the opponents is much lower than in singles, allowing more unorthodox mon choices and builds to succeed. Having lurked at Nugget Bridge as well as looked at the kinds of teams and strategies people build for VGC, I'd say high level doubles is as closed or worse compared to high level singles. It's dominated by weather, draco meteor, and pranksters.
All three of which have been somewhat addressed in certain changes brought in to effect in X and Y...
There was a weather nerf, gems are gone (for now), and we have a slew of new interesting abilities that are just as interesting as Prankster is un-interestingly OP.
I don't really think that Doubles is significantly better than OU in terms of the number of viable Pokemon, or at least it wasn't in gen V. People came into Doubles from an OU background and immediately proclaimed "wow, Hitmontop and Cresselia are really good! That must mean Doubles has more variety." What they neglected to notice is that several Pokemon (Skarmory, Magnezone, Tentacruel, Venusaur, just to name a few) went from OU prominence to Doubles obscurity. In addition, there is more variety in OU than people realise. People are often afraid to use UU-and-below Pokemon in OU, but there are some real gems down there that can do things no OU pokemon can.
I wouldn't say the skill level of Doubles players is lower than Singles, I'd say that Doubles is harder than singles. You can cover all the threats in Singles but it is really hard to cover all two-Pokemon combinations. For example, I might cover Scizor in my team with a combination of Heatran and Gyarados. Now what happens if my opponent brings in Terrakion, or Rotom-W, alonside him? I'm in trouble. So I have to realise from the team preivew not to let these two in at the same time. That's a really complicated thought process, and even then, I might fail to accomplish this task just by being outpredicted.
I wouldn't say the skill level of Doubles players is lower than Singles, I'd say that Doubles is harder than singles. You can cover all the threats in Singles but it is really hard to cover all two-Pokemon combinations. For example, I might cover Scizor in my team with a combination of Heatran and Gyarados. Now what happens if my opponent brings in Terrakion, or Rotom-W, alonside him? I'm in trouble. So I have to realise from the team preivew not to let these two in at the same time. That's a really complicated thought process, and even then, I might fail to accomplish this task just by being outpredicted.
Don't forget Fairies! They massively reduce the power of Dragon spam.
I don't think we've seen the last of weather. Five turns was always plenty of time for Trick Room to rip a team to pieces.
Manual Weather is so amazingly OP right now. I can't wait for PokeBank to abuse Thundy/Torn.
Having played some doubles and triples games, I'd say that the weather nerf kills long-term survival oriented weather strategies. However, just setting up weather and blitzing the opponent with spread moves is still quite viable. You can even eject button that Politoed and get it back later, or just murder the enemy from turn one with Abom blizz/CharY heat wave. I guess top level players will plan openings that can straight up stall out mega-weather.
It's relatively good in terms of dragon spam that gems got nerfed; I guess in theory less specially defensive things can now be used, but given that no new offensive strategies have been added to doubles other than revenge killing priority spam a la talonflame, I see the next VGC/doubles meta settling down into a version similar to the old one.
The problem with using Fairies to counter dragon spam is that you have to use fairies. Togekiss is the most viable of the offensive doubles fairies, definitely a hard doubles OU mon. Klefki soaks draco meteors but is weak to coverage moves. Azu gets off Aqua Jet before being focus killed by both team members because of low speed. Aromatisse and Slurpuff are good slow trick roomers, but without ghost type they are vulnerable to fake out and being focus fired without trick room making them move first. Dragon spam is checked now, but the new fairies are more like checks than counters; they just encourage less mindless spam.
It's relatively good in terms of dragon spam that gems got nerfed; I guess in theory less specially defensive things can now be used, but given that no new offensive strategies have been added to doubles other than revenge killing priority spam a la talonflame, I see the next VGC/doubles meta settling down into a version similar to the old one.
The loss of gems really upped the power of trick room and weather teams, you have a lot more freedom to be bulky without still dying in one hit and it gives you plenty of time to abuse the stat changes from the weather. In particular I think trick rain and weather + speed boost are both really strong particularly sunny day and venosaur.
Also to the above player talking about Prankster being dominant, the change to quick guard allowing it to be used in succession and the change to stop priority granted by abilities makes that move REALLY strong in doubles and helps to counter some of the dominant stat change based strategies. I love seeing Klefki on opposing teams I just quick guard over and over until they switch it out for something else and in the meantime I get to stop their other pokemon from getting any priority moves.
Also to the above player talking about Prankster being dominant, the change to quick guard allowing it to be used in succession and the change to stop priority granted by abilities makes that move REALLY strong in doubles and helps to counter some of the dominant stat change based strategies. I love seeing Klefki on opposing teams I just quick guard over and over until they switch it out for something else and in the meantime I get to stop their other pokemon from getting any priority moves.
I am new (?) to competitive pokemon as a whole, but when as I was playing, singles felt repetitive for me. I dont know if it's because I kinda suck right now, or it's just it. When I was reading about doubles, it felt more creative, so right now, I'm trying to learn about it right now. I also wanted to try a trick room so badly when I read a guide about it. So every tip and help would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited:
I think the main difference between singles and doubles is singles is inherently matchup-dependent while doubles is not, due to the variety of moves that can happen on one turn. Every singles battle is based on weakening your opponents pokemon to the point where you can win a 1 v 1 matchup for every pokemon he has. That's why the comparison to chess, so often made, doesn't work for singles, as never in chess is there a strict one-on-one matchup to exploit. However, doubles is very similar to chess due to the nature of having to protect your pokemon from a variety of attacks from a variety of positions on the field, making it more exciting in general. If you're good at seeing a variety of combinations and how they work out you'll be better at doubles, and if you're good at planning how to weaken things to win later you'll probably be better at singles, i think