Trick Room Team (OU)

[fbcin]

I've been playing on Shoddy for a couple months on various usernames (my current one is nvg.fbcin), and I didn't get around to getting a team analyzed until now. This is the fourth (now fifth) revision of my Trick Room team, and is easily the most different from any of the previous versions, so I figured I'd leave it to the userbase to tell me what they think of this revision.

Changes from this edit are in red.

Team At a Glance:

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Greenblatt (Bronzong) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/8 Def/96 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake

Greenblatt is the name of the computer which Bobby Fischer successfully defeated in three chess matches in the year 1977.

Bronzong's a sturdy opener, and unless I see the potential for an 1-2KHO via Gyro Ball or Earthquake without much difficulty, his first move is Trick Room, followed by Stealth Rock. Since it's an opener, Heatproof seems to be the better ability, since no one's going to take a gamble on an Earthquake they never expect to hit anyways. If I see a Taunt-using opener (something like Crobat or Gyarados comes to mind), I'm pretty quick to switch him out for something that will deal damage effectively.

Anna Nicole Smith (Snorlax) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 168 HP/120 Def/220 SDef
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Curse
- Selfdestruct
- Crunch
- Return

Anna Nicole Smith was an American model and television personality, and was Playmate of the Year in 1993. She was frequently ridiculed for her increasing weight prior to becoming a spokesperson for the weight loss product TrimSpa.

Switched this in place of Blissey. It still provides a useful Ghost weakness, and actually makes use of Trick Room. Comes in and can either Curse to beef up, thus increasing the benefit of Trick Room while it's up, or start attacking. Since two of its attacks do not damage Ghost-types (something I found the last version of this team vulnerable to, specifically Mismagius, Dusknoir, and Spiritomb), I figured Crunch would be a more useful addition to this team than another ground attack, since three other members of my team already have Ground moves. I chose Selfdestruct over Rest because it is a STAB attack that can take out potential threats this team would not otherwise be able to handle, although I'm not against the idea of switching it.

John Wayne Gacy, Jr. (Spiritomb) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/144 Def/112 SDef
Quiet nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Hypnosis
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

John Wayne Gacy, Jr. was a serial killer convicted for 33 counts of rape and murder of men and boys between 1972 and his arrest in 1978. He became known as the "Killer Clown", because he often entertained at parties under the persona "Pogo the Clown".

The second change on this team via this edit, getting rid of Dusknoir. It still stops Rapid Spinning, which is what I liked most about Dusknoir in the first place. It operates similarly to Snorlax - come in and either start setting up via Calm Mind, or just start attacking. Shadow Ball and HP Fighting are there for type coverage, and Hypnosis to thwart potential problems, and hopefully allow for a Calm Mind on the switch resulting from it.

Stevie Wonder (Claydol) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Trick Room
- Rapid Spin
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Stevie Wonder is an American musician who has been blind since birth. Although he is well known for his keyboard and vocal abilities, can play a variety of musical instruments, from the piano to the drums to the harmonica.

Since switching is an important part of this team (and I guess to most/all teams), having a Rapid Spinner is pretty important. It also happens to have the move my team is based around, so that's nice, too. This is my go-to switch in on an expected Earthquake (so as not to reveal my Bronzong's actual ability), as long as it won't get taken out by any of the other attacks the opponent might have. Stone Edge and Earthquake sport good type coverage.

Thurgood Marshall (Heatran) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 128 HP/128 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Solarbeam
- Fire Blast

Thurgood Marshall was the first African American to serve as a Justice in the Supreme Court. He is also known for his success in arguing before the Supreme Court in Brown v. The Board of Education, which eventually abolished segregation in public school in the United States.

Also changed since in the most recent edit. During the testing of the last version of this team, Metal Sound wasn't very effective at helping it kill anything or scaring out potential threats, so I replaced Leftovers for Life Orb, as per Rag's advice. I'm not against the idea of putting Specs on it instead, but I like not being locked into one attack, so Life Orb will stay for now. I don't like having two Selfdestructers on here, so I'm going to experiment with Solarbeam (to deal with something like Swampert or Suicune), since that would increase the utility of the TranGrowth pairing. It also increases the argument for Sunny Day, which doesn't seem to be a popular choice, haha. If it doesn't work out, I'll go back to Selfdestruct.

Whoopi Goldberg (Tangrowth) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 104 HP/152 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
- Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Whoopi Goldberg is an American actress, comedienne, and television host. She is one of only thirteen people who has won an Emmy, a Grammy, an Oscar, and a Tony Award. I really liked her in Sister Act and Girl, Interrupted.

Bulky absorber of physical attacks, and can lure Fire-using switch-ins into a false sense of security when it uses Sunny Day, only to beef up Heatran on the switch. Even if it isn't setting up for Heatran, Sunny doubles Tangrowth's speed, and allows it to belt out a Solarbeam once per turn. Sleep Powder helps against potential sweepers (unless they posess Sleep Talk), and HP Fire is to deal with Ice types. Even though Grass and Fire are more common offensively, Tangrowth already has a way of dealing with both. People have jumped on me for the conflict between Trick Room and Chlorophyll, but it hasn't been an issue thus far - this guy comes in later in the game, when Trick Room generally isn't up anymore. It is also generally a huge surprise to the enemy, who after seeing Trick Room, won't see it coming, and I value unpredictability/surprise very highly.

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I feel like this revision sealed up a lot of the holes from the last revision, while still probably not being the final version, as there are still a few things I'm testing. I'm optomistic about Solarbeam on Heatran (provided Sunny Day is up), and the addition of Spiritomb and Snorlax gives me some more firepower without drastically altering the composition of the team.
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[Dexterity]

Sunny day and trick room are counter-productive (at least for tangrowth). I don't think you should have both on the same team since you might be losing crucial turns from setting them up.

Also, you don't really seem to have a really hard hitter to take advantage of trick room. Some trick room teams I have faced used things like marowak or rhyperior, both of whom have monstrous attack with crappy speed. I wouldn't count dusknoir as one.

 

[Rag]

I fail to see how you can utilize Trick Room effectively - your opponent may even benefit more from Trick Room then you. I mean, how are you going to abuse the Trick Room? Sure thing Blissey outrun Suicune, Porygon-Z, Azelf, etc etc, but does that really matter? They're either going to switch out, or even explode. Either way, you aren't going to accomplish anything you wouldn't without Trick Room.

Another thing to note is that Heatran is your closest thing of a Pokémon who can abuse Trick Room - I won't count Dusknoir, as it got two priority moves, so Dusknoir is basically the same without Trick Room. However, Heatran is already faster then a lot of Pokémon, and that's without any EVs. Making it Quiet and giving it Life Orb would give you a pretty heavy hitter in Trick Room, even through it would make it worse used in conjuction with Tangrowth. And speaking of Tangrowth, it's basically useless if Trick Room is in effect. You're unable to attack due Solarbeam requiring a recharge, and you cannot set up Sunny Day is it would make you even less of a threat due about anything outrunning you. I highly recommend replacing Tangrowth in favor of something else. I'll suggest Machamp as it's another heavy hitter, which you currently lack. Machamp handle Water types in general, especially Gyarados, so it's used quite well in conjuction with Heatran.

I hope you'll take my advice into consideration, and good luck with your team! :)

 

[fbcin]

@ Dexterity - I used to run a Rhyperior on this team (the switch from it to Tangrowth is one of the major changes from the previous version and this one), and previously I had problems with bulky waters like Vaporeon, Suicune, Milotic, Walrein, and Swampert (particularly Swampert, since I lacked a grass attack) that Rhyperior was very vulnerable to, which prompted the switch.

As far as the counterproductivity of Sunny Day and Trick Room, I understand what you're saying. I generally use them at different stages of the game, though (Tangrowth generally comes out later in the game, after the 'surprise' and much of the utility of Trick Room has worn off). It also works in tandem with Heatran much better than Rhyperior did with anything else on my team, and I like having some cohesion in the team. I'll continue testing it, and if it becomes an issue, or that last attack slot could be put to better use (Energy Ball, perhaps ditching Sunny Day/SBeam altogether), or a different Pokemon could fill the slot better, I'll change it.

This is a very valid point, though, and I appreciate you mentioning it.

I agree with the lack of hard hitters. Is there anything you'd suggest to fill Dusknoir's spot?

@ Rag - You're right, I really don't use Trick Room to its full extent (part of me wants to say I'm just using it differently, but another part completely agrees with you). Trick Room isn't really integral to the team, so maybe calling it a "Trick Room team" is the wrong way of going about it. The team doesn't revolve around the move, but it adds to the unpredictability of the team, and has definitely been a game-saver on several occasions.

I already addressed the Sunny Day/Trick Room issue, but not every battle goes how you want it to, and I'm sure that it'll become a problem sooner rather than later, so I'll take a second look at Tangrowth's movepool and see what I can do to fix that.

I really like your changes to Heatran, and after reading what you said, am thinking of putting Machamp in Dusknoir's place, or possibly Tangrowth's, since as you said, it can deal with bulky waters, and has the added bonus of not being weak to the Ice attacks they tend to have. Although I also like the Ghost as a switch-in against a possible fighting attack on Heatran, so that's something I have to think about. I also really like the Tangrowth-Heatran combo, so it's another thing to consider.

In regards to Machamp, what moveset would you suggest? Something like Bulk Up, Dynamic Punch, Thunderpunch, and Ice Punch/Stone Edge seems interesting, but using Guts/Sleep Talk as a status absorber is also interesting.

I really appreciate your comments! :) Without harsh critics, this team probably wouldn't see much improvement (although I feel like I'm being somewhat defensive towards the criticisms offered thus far)!

 

[fbcin]

Bumping this post because I edited several parts of this team. The new stuff is in red.

Thanks to those who have commented thus far, and anyone who reads this!

Also, Dexterity, I may not have addressed this fully earlier, but I think you nailed it when you said the team takes some time to set up - that's definitely the main weakness I see with it.

 

[iDunno]

My main problem with your team is your tangrowth and heatran pairing. Part of me just wants to go to your computer and completely change ur last two pokemon cuz its bothering me so much lol. My problem is that both your tangrowth and heatran may be paired together, but they also share pretty much the same coverage. Both tangrowth and heatran have a fire type and grass type move and when sunny day loses effect, heatran loses a moveslot that could have included something more reliable. My suggestion is either putting heat rock on tangrowth and change some attacking moves. This suggestion might just be completely misguided, but i just don't like grass type moves being put up over other things especially since pokemon like moltres can completely destroy your heatran-tangrowth pairing.


Also, tangrowth would make a good status absorber if you replaced chlorophyl with leaf guard and it would also increase the trick room synergy