two dragons, one team, [my first OU RMT]

Stove

Hey Smogon, this is probably my first real serious team that i'm trying to put together. I have some decent knowledge of pokemon, but i'm definitely looking for all you experts to help me out!

team at a glance:
Spr_4h_068.png
Spr_4d_373.png
Spr_4h_227.png
Spr_4h_242.png
rachi.png
luc.png
OR
infernape.png


A More Indepth Look

170px-068Machamp.png

Machamp @ lum berry
240hp 244atk 16spdef 8spe
-Dynamicpunch
-Payback
-Bullet punch
-Ice punch.

an excellent recommendation by jc104. TBH, at first i doubted this poke as a lead, but after 20+ battles with him, i've grown to love him. His sheer power is enough to dent any lead there is. While this means no more SR, this poke can usually take out 1-2 pokemon alone. DynamicPunch is for the obvious confusion and really the only choice i have against leadpert, which gives me A LOT of trouble considering i have no real way of killing him. DPunch is also my Blissey checker, however if this pokemon goes down, i'm usually screwed in that field as well. Payback is for azelf leads and the starmie leads, which i've been seeing a lot more of. THey'll usually trick me, but payback can easily take care of those that can't. Bullet punch is for focus sashers and ice punch super effectively OHKO's leadroserade, which absorbs the sleep powder w/ lum and leaddactyl.

Breakdown of effectiveness against top 10 leads:
1. Azelf: Most of the time, he'll psychic me. However, with the given EV spread, i usually live with around 8% hp, which is sort of a problem if the other team has blissey. Payback will OHKO guarantee.

2. Swampert: Definitely one of the leads i have a bigger problem with, i have no super effective moves on my entire team for him, i usually just have to send out mence early and hope for lucky kills.

3. Metagross: Easy, Dynamic punch OHKOs

4. Aerodactyl: This use to be a giant problem for my team back when i was using a swampert lead. Now, it's nothing more than an annoyance. He gets off SR, and that's all he can do, because he'll be dead the next turn.

5. Jirachi: I havent seen one of these in a while, but they tend to use trick. I just go for the DPunch which OHKOs him and a scarfchamp is nothing to scoff at.

6. Infernape: I actually havent come across one of these. The only thing i have at my disposal is Dpunch which should 2HKO him.

7. Roserade: Ice punch, bullet punch if sashed. Badda Bing Badda Boom

8. Weaville: Again i just dynamic punch and go for the KO, nothing more to say.

9. Ninjask: First thing any Ninjask tries to do is either Protect or Substitute. the only thing i can really do is spam ice punch. Unfortunately most of the time he is able to pass off a +3 or +4 speed boost and depending on the poke he BP's to, this could be a problem

10. Gliscor: Ice Punch gg

200px-373Salamence.png

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Mild(+SpA, -Def)
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake
-Outrage
Oh mixmence, you're so beautiful and i love you. I created this team based off mixmence and latias. YES I KNOW THIS LEAVES ME OPEN TO ICE ATTACKS, but these pokemon are just way too cool for me to pass up. This is a pretty standard mixmence build, I've decided to go with Naive so he can outspeed lucarios and other base 100 pokes, which definitely gives me the much needed edge. Earthquake covers some of my basic threats, empoleon, nape, luke, and champ, a lot of which could give my team a run for its money. I also bring this guy out so i can intimidate those aggressive setup sweepers, and proceed to destroy them. THis poke usually gets 2-3 kills and the best part is he forces tons of changes, making it easier in my battle to hurt each poke, so my latias can come in and clean up.

200px-385Jirachi.png

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
252 Att / 252 Speed / 4 Sp.Att
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
Sadly, Latias is gone. However in his place, comes the incredibly powerful revenge killer jirachi. This has definitely become a reliable poke for me, suggested by Twist of Fate. I've opted for adamant nature to deal as much damage as i can to scizor and gross, the former which gives my team a lot of trouble. Iron head is basic for the imbaflinch and a generally good counter to TTar, 2HKOing him. Ice punch as another back up for dragons, most of the time, teams that utilize 2 dragons get shut down completely by this guy. Now at first i used thunderpunch, however, this was doing minimal damage to skarm which really has the potential to wall my team. So i've opted for tbolt, however tbolt does not OHKO bulky gyara, which is unfortunate. This is something that i'm going to have to live with however, as i feel tbolt is much better overall. He has excellent type coverage and i am very hesitant to remove this guy now because he has become a very stable member for the past 20+ matches that i've used.



170px-227Skarmory.png

Skarmoy @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 176 Def / 16 Spe
Nature: Impish (+Def, - SpA)
-Spikes
-Bravebird
-Whirlwind
-Roost
Ah the infamous combo, SkarmBliss. With the right prediction, these two can easily wall whatever the enemy may throw at me. I've opted for BB instead of drill peck, because BB can KO champ after rocks + spikes damage. I usually send out Skarm 2nd after pert, in order to set up rocks, then proceed to WW anything that comes out just to get as much residual damage as i can get, making my sweeper's life easier. Roost is for obvious reason. I choose not to run the SpD EV set because i feel that leaves him a bit weak on the defensive side, and unable to spikespam due to being moderate in both the defensive and the special defensive department. Leave the SpA for Blissey.

200px-242Blissey.png

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Def / 232 SpD
Nature: Calm (+SpDef, -Atk)
-Wish
-Softboil
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave

Ah the second half of the infamous duo. Skarmory's partner in crime. I've opted for a change to wish because with leadchamp, i want to be able to keep him alive as long as possible as he wrecks enormous havoc to an unprepared team. It also allows general well being for all my pokes. Softboil is for healing. I don't opt for flamethrower or ice beam because blissey's SpA is pitiful without any EVs investing in it, so i go for the consistent Seismic Toss, which is certain to hurt many pokemon. However there have been times, where it's just been gengar vs. blissey and i lost due to that :<. Thunderwave is to make my life so much easier, slowing down other pokes considerably, and it also synergizes well with Dynamic Punch. 50% parahax and 50% confusion is certainly something incredibly annoying.

Those are my 5 already set in. Now smogon i come to you asking which one of the two following pokes would be better for my team.

130px-448Lucario.png

Lucario @ Life Orb
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
~ Swords Dance
~ Close Combat
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Crunch

I've given this a lot of thought, and i've come up with lucario as my lategame/setup sweeper. a +2 Luke can easily destroy entire teams with extremespeed sweep as i've encountered before. Close Combat gives me another very solid option against blissey, something that can wall my team potentially very hard. CC easily counterstthat, even a nonboosted one. Extremespeed is what lets setup lucario sweep so damn hard. Priority move that deals a crap ton of damage? yes please. +2 luke can easily take out pokes that are neutral to ES. I've Opted for crunch instead of edge and ice punch because i feel i can already cover flying types w/ all the ice coverage i have. Gyarados coverage is a little shaky, but that's something i'll live with. I already have two other ice punchers, dont want to make it redundant. Plus, crunch lets me easily take out gengar/dusknoir/rotoms, these pokes can easily take out my team because of the lack of ghost and Dark moves.

OR

220px-392Infernape.png

Infernape @ Life Orb
176 Atk / 144 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
~ Close Combat
~ Grass Knot
~ Stone Edge
~ Overheat

Ah good ol' mixape. While this means i wont have a setup sweeper, i get another excellent wallbreaker. he has CC just like lucario does so i can take out blissey if she tries to switch in. I've opted for the EV spread i have so grass know can 2HKO hippowdon/ suicune / swampert, all of which i have extreme amounts of trouble killing with my team. Stone Edge gives me excellent coverage against flyings, ESPECIALLY bulky gyara, who dominates this metagame. Overheat is for STAB and great for destroying skarm. Overall this poke makes easy work of skarmbliss combo and really can wreck an unprepared team. However, losing crunch, would definitely hurt my team as subgengar can destroy my team.

I've tried both of these pokes in shoddy, but i still have no idea which one i want to use. I wanna hear from you shoddy! please give me some advice to make my team even better
​
 
I don't have time for a full rate, but I have a couple little things to say. Use Roar on Pert over Protect. I honestly see no use for it. With Roar, you can shuffle your opponent's team around to get some free damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes. This will allow for Salamence and Latias to easier clean up late game.

Another thing I noticed is that you have a blaring Mix Ape weakness. Depending on whether it's Physically based or Specially based, Swampert is your only option. Physically based ones can U-Turn all over Latias and Mach Punch your (weakened) Scarfed Machamp. Specially based ones destroy Mence and Swampert, while both take on SkarmBliss. The only suggestion I have to you is be careful with switching in Latias and make sure if you rely on Swampert that it's Physically based. Good team from first glance :D
 
My personal opinion is Roar on swampert just like Sandslash.

Also I'd probably switch out Scarf Champ for Scarf Starmie.

Could still keep actual Bolt Beam coverage instead of Pseudo bolt-beam coverage. Could still Take out +1 Gyara / Salamence

Synergizes well with team, Shadowball = Blissey Immunity T-bolt = Swampert Immunity..And blissey can also tank T-bolts easily as well so a poor prediction wouldn't matter. None of your team really except swampert has trouble switching into grass attacks. Perfectly Covers your MixApe weakness due to having resistances to both its type of attacks and not taking Terrible damage from Grass knot if it happens to be carrying it. Surf is most likely OHKO if you do have to come in on Ape outspeeding it.

Problem is it'd create two pursuit weak pokemon on your team...if you're not afraid of that I feel it would be a great option to include on your team.

Edit: Oh and don't forget to carry trick so you can cripple Setup sweepers and or Blissey / Skarm and other walls and then can later use it as a late game sweeper =) Try it out and see how you like it I suppose?
 
Hello. This team looks pretty solid.

First of all, I would suggest the moving of Machamp into the lead position, as Machamp is one of the very best leads at the moment, losing only to Lum berry Metagross. Swampert is an uninspiring lead, losing too easily to taunt, surprise grass attacks, and sleep leads as well as never preventing setup. You can easily just take him out of the lead position. Roar over protect still very much recommended. Here is the set:

Machamp @ Lum berry
Adamant nature
240hp 244atk 16spdef 8spe
-Dynamicpunch
-Payback
-Bullet punch
-Ice punch.

Look it up in C&C.

I would suggest that you change your Latias to a choice Scarf set since at the moment you have big problems with DDmence and bulky DD Gyarados. Only Swampert has a chance against a +1 Mence, and must be at absolutely full health to do so. Otherwise, it will be free to Outrage, though you can phaze with Skarm if it locks in. Taunt Gyarados has no problem sweeping is Latias is just a little weakened (+1 Stone Edge does around 60% and +1 Bounce even more) which can easily happen after one switch-in to SR and a round of LO recoil. Scarf Latias can kill both Mence and Gyarados, among others, at any level of health.

I would suggest a Naive nature for Salamence, to beat out all Lucario (very important) along with guaranteeing a tie against other base 100s. You should even consider Roost since you need to maintain your health to act as a Lucario counter.

I think you would benefit more from a Wish blissey than a Cleric blissey, since all but Skarm lack recovery, and if you were to opt for my Machamp set, you would have something to deal with status leads that doesn't mind paralysis either. I would also suggest Flamethrower over Seismic toss, since otherwise Gengar could give your team some serious trouble. Blissey no longer needs SpDef Evs, since specs heatran, lucario and Gengar are now suffiently rare. 252hp 252def Bold will do just fine.

Skarmory does not need 64 atk Evs. I would suggest putting them into defence and/or speed. Salamence and Latias can do large amounts of damage to Machamp if given a free switch, both taking around the same amount from Dynamicpunch. You may even want to consider a taunt Skarm.

Good luck.

Edit - Ginganinja is right. You need a spin blocker. If you opt for the Rotom over Blissey suggestion, changing Skarm to a spdef set is highly recommended for obvious reasons.
 
Yeah your current Machamp set is too gimicaly at the moment.
Also i have tryed to make a CM latias sweeper however Icannot at the moment with all the F**king scarf tars around. Your Latias is just begging to be killed my a T-tar and your Blissey will die too. Make latias scarfed and make Machamp a Sub+3 attacks varient.

I really don't like your Blissey set as i feel that it does not work well with Mence and Machamp on your team.
If you still want a thunder waver then Celebi is a nice chioce, dealing with water types and statusing many things. However I still think that a Rotom H is best for your team in Blissey's spot as it can burn threats and even para if it needs to while giving you a spin blocker so that your entry hazards do not get blown away.
 
I think you have a decent team concept, but a lot of overlapping parts. For example, Machamp and Swampert are somewhat redundant, countering the same offensive threat in Tyranitar, and you're using Machamp in an inferior way as well. A few changes and you could have a pretty potent team.

You definitely need a spin-blocker as someone already mentioned. It just so happens that you also have a slight Gyarados weakness, so we can remedy this by replacing Machamp for Rotom-H with the following set and EV spread:

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The best spin-blocker in today's metagame, and for good reason, being able to either outright kill or cripple most spinners.

Since you lost your revenge-killer, and you have somewhat of an issue with Ice attacks, I'd recommend replacing one of your dragons with Scarf Jirachi. I know that the point of the team was to utilize dual-dragons, but it's not really going to work with the team structure you currently have. Scarf Jirachi would add a nice load of resistances and check any offensive threats that unexpectedly boost on your team. I'm thinking Latias is the most expendable, as Salamence with SR and Spikes support becomes nearly unstoppable.

The Scarf Jirachi set is as follows:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
252 Att / 252 Speed / 4 Sp.Att
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt

Last suggestion to increase the longevity of your team is to change Blissey to the Wish / Protect variant. Since you said you struggled with opposing spikes-stacking teams, Wish / Protect Blissey would be perfect for you, allowing you to replenish the health of your walls and therefore last longer in the match.
 
Alright, I don't see how you can counter DDmence and also to a lesser extent, gyarados. Machamp is too slow to KO a +1 positive natured salamence, and it the rest of the team apart. Adding a scarf for latias can allow to to easily KO gyarados and salamence with thunderbolt and dracometeor. This leaves machamp open for a new set, like a rest talker or sub users that can destroy stuff with dynamic punch and absorb status.

You also have spikes and stealth rock, but no spin blocker. This team needs a rotom. No sweepers on your team, so a subcharge rotom could be cool. Regular subrotom can burn ttar too.

Also, you have several ice weaknesses, which is ok, but no resistances to ice
 
thanks for all the rates guys! i really appreciate it.
now i'll move on to address each issue

@Sandslash: yes i've noticed a pretty bad Mixape weakness, but with the way my team is set-up, im not sure what else i can do about it. And yea, i think i'll change protect to roar, since it gives me 2 phazers and more scouting.

@ Ronin: I'm reluctant to put starmie on my team, especially with the amount of scarfTars right now. But it could work, maybe if i switch champ to lead and replace pert with starmie?

@jc104: I'm not exactly sure how leadchamp works, it seems like he could lose to a lot because he's so slow, but i really have no idea because i've never tried it. Regarding the Latias change, i think i'm going to follow ToF's idea and change it to jirachi, solving a lot of my problems. Latias is really there cause i think it's such a cute pokemon anyways. i think i'll try naivemence because you make a good point, a lucario could definitely come in and do a lot of damage.
My original idea was to have a wishbliss, but i changed it because i reasoned with myself and thought it creates more unnecessary switches for me. also, i thought if my team is completely paralyzed, the extra health isnt going to matter as much, due to them being able to do a lot less and get easily KO'd
Good point out on the Attack EV's, i'll change that. I've also thought about tauntskarm, but that leaves me weak to fighting, especially the likes of machamp, so i was a little hesitant on that too.

@ninja: i think i'm going to change champ into sub+3 attacks, while taking ToF's idea and making a scarf jirachi.
Also, the reason i didn't put rotom H in is because i actually want to battle with my HG, so i have no way to obtain rotom. However, same kind of goes for jirachi :\ However, i will definitely make this change in shoddy

@ToF: I like the changes that you've made, but i've addressed why it's a bit problematic for me. A question on the Jirachi, why thunderbolt? wouldn't it be better off with thunderpunch since it's a physically based rachi? Also with the changes, i might consider turning Blissey into wish, just to supplement some heals, but i'm not too sure about that.

@Eggbert: yea i have a problem with those two, but i feel like the change into scarfjirachi definitely will solve those. And yea i also agree compltely on the rotom change.

thanks guys! i appreciate all the feedback
 
@jc104: I'm not exactly sure how leadchamp works
Click to expand...

Although it seems like you will not be using it this time, leadchamp really does beat every common lead bar Lum berry Metagross:

Azelf - Payback + Bullet punch. Evs let you survive a psychic
Swampert - Dynamicpunch. Though it's a 3HKO, it can't touch you, and has a fair chance to fail to set up SR due to confusion.
Metagross - because it can 2HKO you with Meteor mash, or set up SR and OHKO with explosion, you will lose to Lum versions. It's 50-50 if they carry Occa berry.
Aerodactyl - Ice Punch/Dynamicpunch + Bullet punch
Jirachi - Dynamicpunch
Infernape - Dynamic + bullet punch
Roserade - take sleep with lum, ice punch + bullet punch
Tyranitar - dynamicpunch OHKO
Gliscor - Ice punch
Heatran - Dynamicpunch
Ninjask - Gets wrecked by confusion.
Smeargle - take sleep with lum, dynamicpunch + bullet punch


I think you might get the idea.
 
i actually really like that idea, i think i'll try it on shoddy. What do you suggest i replace champ with? considering i'll have a scarfrachi, maybe a LO starmie?
 
i think a DD gyrados will go a long way with your team. it has an amazing attack and has excellent synergy with swampert. it also deals with mixape very well (resists every one of the special variants attacks except ice punch and walls all of the physical variants except stone edge which has poor accuracy.
 
Just a minor nitpick, if you are using the team on wifi then a Dusknoir could take Rotom's place as it still acts as a spin blocker and can burn threats.
 
should i be running with dusknoir, skarm, AND blissey? that seems a bit overkill in the wall department, but i'm not exactly sure. Because if i replace skarm with noir, there's no reason for a spin blocker cause i dont set up SR anymore w/ leadchamp. If i replace bliss w/ noir, then i lose wish and parahax.
 
You don't have SR on this team and no blocker to make sure your spikes stay up. If you don't have a spin blocker then Skarmorys place on the tam is somewhat redundant
 
sure thing!
Gliscor is an excellent physical wall and can roost of any damage it takes. More importantly it can use SR which your team lacks, on the other hand it gives you another ice weakness however your end game sweeper (Lucario or Infernape) both resist ice attacks anyway so the weakness is not too bad.

Another great physical wall is Dusknoir (Since the rotom forms are unobtainable) even though you have no entry hazards to block it burns physical threats and counters Gyarados very well, the fact that Dusknior could not use SR was the reason I suggest Gliscor over it however.
 
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