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NOC Two Mafias Mafia - Won by The Pack

Jalmont I'm gonna call you out because you probably need to lead this village vote as you're the cleanest person in the game.

I've already pointed out how the two dead scum of different teams have attacked me way earlier in the game.

From what I see, Celever, realiti, and myself are the three people with the most suspicion on them. The fact of the matter is that the scum absolutely cannot afford to lose the other scum team right now or they will be facing a 5v1, terrible odds for them. Notice how two of the people with the greatest suspicion on them are teaming up against the third suspicious person? What does that imply about who's leading this lynch?

I've already claimed that I will use my next night action targeting realiti (unless there's a realiti lynch tonight in which case I will probably just target Celever.) realiti is still not claiming anything. On a tangent, psy hasn't hard claimed yet from what I can see.
 
imperfectluck said:
Jalmont I'm gonna call you out because you probably need to lead this village vote as you're the cleanest person in the game.

I've already pointed out how the two dead scum of different teams have attacked me way earlier in the game.

From what I see, Celever, realiti, and myself are the three people with the most suspicion on them. The fact of the matter is that the scum absolutely cannot afford to lose the other scum team right now or they will be facing a 5v1, terrible odds for them. Notice how two of the people with the greatest suspicion on them are teaming up against the third suspicious person? What does that imply about who's leading this lynch?

I've already claimed that I will use my next night action targeting realiti (unless there's a realiti lynch tonight in which case I will probably just target Celever.) realiti is still not claiming anything. On a tangent, psy hasn't hard claimed yet from what I can see.
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It's hard for me to see how I get away from voting you, which was my position the previous day and remains so.

It's definitely true that yesterday's vote plus what you said above give me pause about following through with this vote, hence why I am not so sure we should even vote today.

I mean do we really believe bgb ends day 1 with his vote on his partner? That seems unlikely. Equally unlikely that pulsar is a partner, given her willingness to vote ipl yesterday. But of course, we don't know how willing because we ended up on toaster.
 
imperfectluck what is your theory on what happened day 1?

You would agree it's unusual that a tracker would get no results in that situation right? We're basically assuming that there is a pack roleblocker who roleblocked you 2x in a row. Other possibilities to me include there being a safeguard of some sort, which fwiw is a role that I think AG would put in, but most traditional NOC hosts would not.

Why did you track pulsar over celever, someone you scumread?
 
JALMONT said:
imperfectluck what is your theory on what happened day 1?

You would agree it's unusual that a tracker would get no results in that situation right? We're basically assuming that there is a pack roleblocker who roleblocked you 2x in a row. Other possibilities to me include there being a safeguard of some sort, which fwiw is a role that I think AG would put in, but most traditional NOC hosts would not.

Why did you track pulsar over celever, someone you scumread?
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I think it's believable that Celever has the role he claims, something passive with no night action, just not for town. Look at the link here for what paranoid gun owner typically is: Paranoid Gun Owner - MafiaWiki (mafiascum.net) . They kill anyone who target them, town or scum, as otherwise it's just unbalanced. It does say "more often town" but let's look at the known roles in this game. Let's say that I am scum and realiti is scum if Celever is clean. That leaves literally zippy as the only town role (+ jalmont's twin which is hard to activate anyways) that would get shot by it. In that case it is definitely far too overpowered for town.
 
JALMONT said:
imperfectluck what is your theory on what happened day 1?

You would agree it's unusual that a tracker would get no results in that situation right? We're basically assuming that there is a pack roleblocker who roleblocked you 2x in a row. Other possibilities to me include there being a safeguard of some sort, which fwiw is a role that I think AG would put in, but most traditional NOC hosts would not.

Why did you track pulsar over celever, someone you scumread?
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I don't have a theory for what happened on day 1. Read that however you will, but that's more dubious than Celever's role overpoweredness and realiti refusing to claim?
 
I took a long walk and

Here's the problem for me imperfectluck. I just can't really see a universe in which Celever is lying. pack and mafia please pay attention

Let's say celever is Mafia w/ bgb. ok, then that means that Pack crossfired and so Celever is like, I'm going to make a gambit to try and clear me and take credit for the kill. The problem with this thinking is that it reveals to the Pack that Celever is the last mafia, because Pack knows they actually killed bgb. This is Not Good for Celever because basically pack can kill him whenever and can even leverage the vote to try and do so (although risky).

Let's say Celever is Pack w/ pulsar. ok, that means that Pack accidentally killed bgb and celever is like, let me use this mishap to gain village cred. The problem again is that Mafia knows Celever is lying (unless bgb really did target Celever - low odds but possible). That's really bad for Celever because it reveals him to the other team, who can now push him in a lynch or go after him with a NK in revenge. Maybe Celever is feeling guilty and wants to pseudo-reveal as some kind of compensation for the mistake. The problem is that 1. I don't believe Celever kills bgb - it's just a bad kill target when bgb is ML bait more often than not and there's other decent kills to make. Ehmcee, me, or realiti perhaps. 2. Why bother putting yourself in an awkward spot giving yourself up to the other team except on the off chance bgb did target cel. I just don't see Celever making that "big move" when pulsar is in such a good spot. Too risky.

So if Celever is lying, then the pack/mafia know which team he is on. if this is the case, then you, the mafia/pack member, should probably reveal that. it's in your best interest, thank you

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I have to admit that I am a little hung up on your tracker results. It's the same thing with ehmcee in that one game where he claimed redirector between two guys which didn't make any sense to me because why would he pick the result that makes him look bad. So yeah, I could see you just getting those results because surely you just make something up that's better? I guess the counterargument is that you don't want to risk revealing yourself to town OR the other mafia so it's safest to just say no result? But that's somewhat flimsy of a stance to take.
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
I wanna stop seeing psy is scum because x and y and z like I'm not playing weird. I'm just playing however I feel like
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Okay, I'm messing with you but please be a little reasonable, I am not "tunneling" you but simply bringing up valid concerns. For me, you aren't as engaged in this game as you were in previous town games. That's all. I have to be open to the possibility that you are mafia and your play this game (for ME, personal opinion) does not warrant me sticking you with an "Auto Town" tag.

The thing with the vanillas is that we never vote them today but out of all them I feel neon > psy > af as far as town goes. the surface level analysis by AF on cel is relatively poor due to it completely ignoring ipl's existence. but then again, given that af and ipl can't be teammates, there's really 0 incentive to totally ignore ipl by AF. So perhaps that's actually a good thing.

idk thinking more about it, maybe I'm just completely off. psy and AF think 2 mafia is within the 3 PRs. those 3 are appealing to me to save them, so perhaps I'm just wrong about that crew and the 3 vanillas are right. interesting dichotomy I guess.
 
That’s an interesting take Jalmont. I was scum reading Celever primarily based on role over behavior. My other scum read realiti is primarily based on his behavior. I would happily vote realiti over Celever this day but if you want to vote me off so be it, I’m certainly in no position to stop you. You need to at least provide the initiative lynching though rather than letting all us “sus” people bandwagon.

I’ve also played this game (and most mafia games in the past) in a highly risky manner and do try to recall my playstyle if you will. Always been a chaotic player, although I have no idea if that will affect anything in your eyes.
 
Let’s go hypothetical for a moment and say I claimed something like “I saw xxx visit pulsar last night” etc. Would that have changed anything for you? If I made something up for a force wrong lynch yeah I’m revealed scum in that scenario but with a bpv I’d have a huge advantage in a 1v1v2 scenario against the other scum. And just about everyone in this thread thinks two failed nights is shady but I also could have said something innocuous like “I saw a fairy target nobody” and nobody would say anything at all. If fairy is villager in that scenario it matches and if fairy was scum she would never go against that fake claim either. What I’m trying to say is that I had much better false options out there yet I claimed what I did.
 
imperfectluck said:
Let’s go hypothetical for a moment and say I claimed something like “I saw xxx visit pulsar last night” etc. Would that have changed anything for you? If I made something up for a force wrong lynch yeah I’m revealed scum in that scenario but with a bpv I’d have a huge advantage in a 1v1v2 scenario against the other scum. And just about everyone in this thread thinks two failed nights is shady but I also could have said something innocuous like “I saw a fairy target nobody” and nobody would say anything at all. If fairy is villager in that scenario it matches and if fairy was scum she would never go against that fake claim either. What I’m trying to say is that I had much better false options out there yet I claimed what I did.
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yes, I would vote you 100% if you claimed x user visited pulsar.

assuming you meant the reverse, I would probably be marginally more likely to believe you. you can't really make something up because that signals to the other mafia that you are lying.

if you are mafia, i don't think you have a bpv. I'm pretty certain of that. I think out of everyone, it's not even that your claims are implausible, but it's that combined with the inconsistency.

I think you need to give me a little more. If you're town, what's the solve then? Who is Celever teammates with? If Celever is town, who's the mafia? Realiti and ??? Or is it just Celever and REaliti for you?
 
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