Uber Bibarel (UberBarel)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Loaded

I decided to release this setup to the public, it's called UberBarel because well... it makes Bibarel uberly powerful. Here's how it works:

You send out Ninjask that is holding a Focus Sash. Ninjask uses Protect the first turn and gains a speed boost. Ninjask then uses Swords Dance the next turn and the other Pokemon attacks Ninjask, and Ninjask survives with Focus Sash. Then, Ninjask gains a speed boost at the end of the turn. Next turn, Ninjask uses Protect again, gaining another speed boost. Ninjask then uses Baton Pass, and passes the boosts to Bibarel whose ability is Simple. In turn, Bibarel gets 4 ATK boosts, and 6 SPD boosts thanks to it's ability and now has the capability to sweep. His ATK is now 885 and his SPD is now 534 (assuming the following setup). Here's Bibarel's setup:

Bibarel @ Focus Sash / Life Orb / Muscle Band / Wide Lens
Ability: Simple
Nature: Adamant (+ATK, -SPATK)
EVs: 252 ATK, 252 HP, 6 DEF/SPDEF
-Return
-Taunt
-Waterfall / Aqua Tail
-Superpower / Iron Tail / Focus Punch

Basically, this should be the standard UberBarel. Here's how this works:

Return is for pure power and also gains STAB due to Bibarel's Normal typing.

Taunt is there to counter those pesky PHazers and Stat-Uppers.

It's up to you between Waterfall and Aqua Tail -- Waterfall has 10 more accuracy, while Aqua Tail has 10 more base power, although Aqua Tail can be used in conjunction with Wide Lens since Aqua Tail's accuracy will become 99.

Same goes with the debate between Superpower and Iron Tail -- Iron Tail should only be used with Wide Lens, while Superpower is the more accurate option, yet also has the disadvantage of 2 ATK and DEF drops (due to Bibarel's Simple ability), so it's more of a last attempt at attacking a Pokemon. If you don't like the idea of a drop, you can always use Focus Punch -- a hard hitting move that works effectively when you can predict a switch.

With the items debate: Focus Sash can be used to get rid of other Focus Sashers since Bibarel will be left with 1HP as well. Life Orb and Muscle Band are viable choices for just pure power. Wide Lens should only be used if you have Aqua Tail or Iron Tail on Bibarel.

Here are the details on the EV Spread: 252 ATK is for added power. SPD EVs are not needed because Bibarel's going to get 6 SPD boosts anyways, so the rest of the EVs can be added to HP for more survivability -- although it may not be needed if you're using Focus Sash. Then the 6 EVs can go into either DEF or SPDEF, it's up to you.



Here are the damage calculations (I'm not going to count Superpower as an attack for the calculations due to the fact it's there as a last ditch attempt to attack rather than a consistent attack):

Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Skarmory, Skarmory takes 55% to 65% damage.
Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Gliscor, Gliscor takes 113% to 133% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Cresselia, Cresselia takes 59% to 70% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Snorlax, Snorlax takes 74% to 87% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Blissey, Blissey takes 104% to 123% damage.
Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Forretress, Forretress takes 52% to 61% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Tangrowth, Tangrowth takes 63% to 74% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Weezing, Weezing takes 78% to 93% damage.
Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Donphan, Donphan takes 110% to 127% damage.
Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Hippowdon, Hippowdon takes 99% to 117% damage.
Using Waterfall on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Bronzong, Bronzong takes 62% to 73% damage.
Using Return on +DEF maxHP, maxDEF Suicune, Suicune takes 67% to 79% damage.



To OHKO Bibarel, here's what you need:

You need at least 335 ATK to OHKO Bibarel with a 100 Base Power Physical Super Effective move (ex: Cross Chop), 394 ATK will guarantee the OHKO.
You need at least 277 SPATK to OHKO Bibarel with a 120 Base Power Special Super Effective move (ex: Focus Blast), 327 SPATK will guarantee the OHKO.
You need at least 350 SPATK to OHKO Bibarel with a 95 Base Power Special Super Effective move (ex: Thunderbolt), 412 SPATK will guarantee the OHKO.
You need at least 672 ATK to OHKO Bibarel with a 100 Base Power Physical Normal Effectiveness move (ex: Earthquake), 792 ATK will guarantee the OHKO.



There you go, that's UberBarel - Copyright darthloaded/Loaded 2007.



Enjoy. Feel free to post comments and accumulate a list of counters. Meanwhile, I'll take a look at the possibilities with Natural Gift and a berry...
 
What if they send in something with Sandstream or Snow Warning, or Quick attack/Extremespeed/Mach Punch/Ice Shard?
 
Ehhh. Everyone kind of knows that if you pass anything to bibarel it's twice as effective- Which is why its stats are so lame anyway. There are a few things missing IMO...
-Damage done on standard walls (Skarm/Gliscor mostly)
-Damage taken from standard walls/tanks
-Damage taken from whatever is going to attack it after the BP (If you die from the BP you wasted both Bibarel and Ninjask for zilch)
-Why 240/18 hp/speed instead of 252/4? Is it just some random compulsion or is there a reason?

Personal Nitpicks:
-Needs a BP partner to work
-Your ninjask plan is ineffective; protect-SD-protect gives +3 speed and +2 attack which turns into maxed speed for Barel and 2 swords dances- double the speed of your set.
-Takes a lot of damage after the BP; A lot of people know you're setting up when you use Shedinja, and will in turn set up against him and wait for the BP.
-Name is less creative than "Bann-Awesome"

Ehhhhhhh, I'm just not a fan of bibarel's ability. Not worth it.
 
You're better off trying to pass stats to something like Medicham or something. Bibarel's stats boosted isn't really anything special to boast about.

This idea isn't anything new. Anything can sweep with stat boosts passed to it, I guess Bibarel is singled out because it "sets up" faster.

Also, Unaware Bibarel counters Uber Bibarel. : p
 
Thread needs more damage calculations of Bibarel's attacks against what you would commonly switch in against it.

Ujjay said:
Bad name, and this doesn't work without a whole team set up. Stealth rock ruins it, so do priority moves, plus that Bibarel doesn't do much to ghosts.
Click to expand...
Um hello? Waterfall?
 
I understand how Simple works, but isn't this still basicly baton pass X from ninjask to Y and attempt a sweep? Lots of other pokemon do it too, like hera and marowak.
I second Surgo, some damage calcs are needed, I wanna see what puts him above the others.
 
Bad math, too...

295 * 3 = 885 (attack)

4 attack boosts multiplies the stat by 3, not 4.
 
Loaded said:
Same goes with the debate between Superpower and Iron Tail -- Iron Tail should only be used with Wide Lens, while Superpower is the more accurate option, yet also has the disadvantage of 2 ATK and DEF drops (due to Bibarel's Simple ability), so it's more of a last attempt at attacking a Pokemon.
Click to expand...

Well, actually, Superpower normally reduces both Attack and Defense by 2 stages. That means that with Simply it's a whopping 4 stage drop for both...

Also, you shouldn't make it so it HAS to have the boosts to do anything productive, because it's not exactly that hard to counter a Ninjask.
 
Sorry about the bad calculations Surgo, forgot about that.

Bologo: according to the Move Descriptions in D/P Analyses, here's Superpower's information:

[NAME]
Superpower
[SHORT DESC]
Lowers the user's Atk and Def one stage.
[LONG DESC]
Lowers the user's Attack and Defense one stage on striking.

Also added some damage calculations against some walls. I'll add more in a few minutes and some calculations on how much damage Bibarel can take.
 
Bologo said:
Well, actually, Superpower normally reduces both Attack and Defense by 2 stages. That means that with Simply it's a whopping 4 stage drop for both...
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. Superpower reduces Attack and Defense both by one stage.
 
Interesting, but to point out a few silly things:

- Waterfall > Aqua Tail (almost always if not always)
- Superpower kills your boosts and asks for a physical sweep thanks to Simple
- Iron Tail?
- Wide Lens is only worth it if you're running both Aqua Tail and Iron Tail, and that's rather silly
- You're actually probably better off with just sticking with Life Orb
- If you're playing with this thing in ubers, good luck setting up

Again, I re-iterate that it's interesting anyway.
 
Solar Crash:

Superpower is more of a last attack attempt, basically when you know you're going to die no matter what and cannot defeat the other Pokemon at any cost.

Wide Lens is an option although, you're right, it is silly compared to the other options.

Life Orb would work but Bibarel's horrible defenses want Focus Sash instead.

Nah, not going to play with this in Ubers, it's just called UberBarel cause of it's Uberly attacking power =P.
 
Instead of a "last ditch effort move" like Superpower, you could always consider the very interesting option of using Super Fang. It would dent things that need denting, at least. Especially if you're gonna end up running a Sash on this thing.

That way, you can Fang for 50% health, sash for survival, and then use another attack to finish your opponent. And depending what they throw next, Super Fang would at least guarantee a dent.

Btw, Waterfall > Aqua Tail because of 20% flinch.

Also, Quick Attack is a very good option considering your buffs.
 
Oops, my bad about the superpower drop. Actually, Bibarel does learn Focus Punch which can be nice if you can predict a switch that's about to occur. Seems like it could be a substitute for Superpower if that floats your boat.
 
Disclaimer: I suck at battling.

HOWEVER, here's my very little experience in tournaments at Smogon, mostly, trying to do the same ninjask (NOT SHEDINJA) setup. I intended to pass it to something else, like Machamp. Machamp doesn't have the uber power of Bibarel, nor the EYE-BLINDING UGLINESS (well, I don't mind how it looks much :P), but it's still pretty powerful and has decent defenses.

Here's how it always seems to work:
Ninjask uses PROTECT! Opponent uses spikes/stealth rock.
Ninjask uses SWORDS DANCE! Opponent uses spikes or roar.
Ninjask uses PROTECT if it's lucky enough to still be in play. Opponent uses spikes for the third time, or maybe they've switched to something and are dragon dancing, or maybe they have blissey out now and use stealth rock, or else you got switched out by roar and now Skarmory is bouncing your team around.

Ninjask uses BATON PASS! You got lucky. Perhaps you were facing one of those Sandstream Hippowdon (I think I've seen two of those as openers so far) and they were just goofing off for three turns.

Whatever you pass to used Y HELO THAR. Whatever you pass to gets hit in the face by hippowdon's earthquake/whatever else is incoming.

Whatever you pass to survives the earthquake with 50% health or so! ...wait, that's Machamp. Bibarrel...might not be so lucky.

You use one or two moves! Unfortunately, even with doubled attack, machamp fails to OHKO whatever you were aiming at, and takes another hit, and if you're lucky, the other hit plus spikes plus stealth rock barely doesn't KO Machamp and it kills something.

Profit???

Granted, Bibarel might one-shot a pokemon or two, but ehhhhhh.

If I'm missing something incredibly obvious in my OWN strategy, please tell me. :P
 
Solar Crash, I'll add them to the main post in just a bit.

Blizzard, that is true, all Sandstream users are a direct counter to UberBarel.
 
Sandstream never bothered me with ninjask. I don't think mine ever got knocked to 1 HP by the first attack, but my experience is limited and I wasn't getting hit by second-turn rock or flying moves, probably. The sandstream issue was more of a minor damage note, though it does come up with focus sash, and spikes/stealth rock/roar are just irritating as crap since I find those like every time I try to baton pass.
 
Loaded said:
Solar Crash, I'll add them to the main post in just a bit.

Blizzard, that is true, all Sandstream users are a direct counter to UberBarel.
Click to expand...
So are all the people who can phaze Ninjask, or are faster than Bibarel after factoring speed boosts and can do something before he gets a taunt in (especially taunt). My main problem is how situational the set is... You mostly have to be fighting someone who's not using a cookie cutter standard team, or whoring spikes/SR, to pull it off (translation: Won't work in a Smogon tourney, ever.)
 
Actually, any Ninjask setup is gone if you can phaze Ninjask away, and Bibarel doesn't need to get a taunt in -- it's already uberly powerful and can hit hard on anything that comes at it. Plus, nothing's going to be outspeeding Bibarel after the 6 SPD boosts unless the Pokemon is on steroids or something...
 
The problem with this is that if you pass the exact same boosts to Heracross, not only is it faster, it generally still does more damage to everything. For example a max attack +nature Hera with a swords dance does 72-84% to max HP, max def +nature Skarmory with close combat. The only thing that still walls it is Gliscor. It's just more practical to send the boosts to something that was designed to sweep instead, even despite simple.

Not that I'm trying to say you shouldn't use it. I guess there's probably a certain amount of satisfaction to be had in doing a lot of damage with a Bibarel if you can pull it off. Just be aware a lot of teams will have priority moves or sandstream to mess you up. Even a simple phazer can do it by roaring on the turn you baton pass.

I recommend saving this strategy, and not trying to use it immediately. Have a weather changer on your team, and a rapid spinner. Wait until you have seen all or most of your opponent's team so you have some idea of how they might be able to counter your strategy. Try not to give away what you're going to do and, after the battle has raged for a while, clear the weather if necessary and pull Ninjask out when you can hopefully get it in for free, like maybe after a hypnosis with something else. If you try to lead with this, all they have to do is pull out Ttar and two sixths of your team just became useless. In fact if they have Ttar, killing it before going ahead with Ninjask is going to be imperative, since as soon as they realize what you're doing they'll switch him in.
 
teeksay, good point there, although Heracross wouldn't be faster. You're right though, the satisfaction in sweeping someone's team with Bibarel is priceless =).


Also added some calculations on how much damage Bibarel can take depending upon the move.
 
Use this in a fun team, when you care more about getting a laugh then winning. Probably wont be a good idea to take it into a tournament. I personally find passing to exploud much more rewarding in it's novelty factor, not to mention that it's actually quite difficult to counter if used correctly and the opponent doesnt have a true hazer, but that's just me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top