Uh I fixed the capital on "mega" but "a powerful base 160 offensive stats" is grammatically wrong so I didn't change that.
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Ubers Analysis Discussion Thread
- Thread starter malefic
- Start date
whoops looks like I accidently added that a
Usage Tips
When playing against a stall team, make sure to bring Gyarados in safely without letting it get hit by a status move. Furthermore, never use Dragon Dance until an opposing Sableye has Mega Evolved because its base forme has Prankster and Will-O-Wisp. When playing against a hyper offensive team, it's not easy to sweep with Mega Gyarados because of how common Xerneas and Mega Salamence are on these teams, so just save it to check Primal Groudon and offensive Ghost Arceus. Against Primal Groudon, try playing around Lava Plume and Thunder Wave instead of directly switching Mega Gyarados into it. (space)
At the end of usage tips there is this ^^^^^
needs to be removes
When playing against a stall team, make sure to bring Gyarados in safely without letting it get hit by a status move. Furthermore, never use Dragon Dance until an opposing Sableye has Mega Evolved because its base forme has Prankster and Will-O-Wisp. When playing against a hyper offensive team, it's not easy to sweep with Mega Gyarados because of how common Xerneas and Mega Salamence are on these teams, so just save it to check Primal Groudon and offensive Ghost Arceus. Against Primal Groudon, try playing around Lava Plume and Thunder Wave instead of directly switching Mega Gyarados into it. (space)
At the end of usage tips there is this ^^^^^
needs to be removes
Here is something that has been bugging me for awhile. There may be a hint frustration in this post, but I don't think there is a way I can make a post of this nature and not vent slightly.
Recently, I have been thinking to ask Sweep (or Fireburn) whether or not it would be ok to delete several suicide lead sets from the onsite dex due to reliability issues many of them have. Most of these problems are along the lines of having trouble dealing with Darkrai, Mega Sableye, Deoxys-S/A, Defog, or inherent team issues vs any combination of these + monstrous threats. Lead Excadrill was brought up recently and kinda killed my plans when it was accepted for an analysis. Personally, I don't think lead Excadrill is worth using ever due to it and its team's massive Darkrai and very possible Salamence issues when faced with a Taunt Deoxys-S at the front. I'm not going to go on about Exca here though, I have a rejection post planned for that, but other suicide leads have similar match-up issues:
"=" will be my opinion on the mon based on what is above
Forretress:
- severe Darkrai problems
- is useless vs Sableye
- Is set up bait for many bulky threats when Taunted by Deo-S
+ can Rapid Spin
= not worth using mainly because of the two bolded points
Scolipede:
- severe Sableye issues (it has a small chance of doing something barely meaningful unlike Forry)
- Acts like a worse Deo-S. It trades hazard ability vs bouncers and the useful fast Taunt for a small chance to do meaningful damage
- Diancie may be an issue depending on the Scolipede set
- makes teambuilding really hard due to certain REALLY BIG threats being immune to tspikes
+ can come out on top Deo-A more often than Deo-S and can out-hazard opposing Deo-S some of the time
+ it runs over Darkrai a large amount of the time
+ Toxic Spikes access
= I would rather use Deo-S where hazards are the main goal, Deo-A as a damage / Hazard hybrid, and Cloyster as a Tspiker
Greninja:
- severe Darkrai issues (but has potential to work with Diancie)
- Deoxys-S will get its hazards up most of the time (even with Diancie on the team)
- makes teambuilding really hard due to certain REALLY BIG threats being immune to tspikes
+ reasonably fast Taunt for Defog users
+ can do meaningful damage to Sableye and KO Diancie
+ Toxic Spikes access
= Even though Toxic Spikes are pretty weak right now, this is one of the better users of them. I am on the fence about this one, especially with Cloyster being an option to use instead.
Cloyster:
- severe Darkrai issues (but has teammates to cause a team preview guessing game between it and the Darkrai check)
- causes volatile situations with Mewtwo on double Psychic HO As well as other rare, fast, and powerful Taunt users you may encounter
+ can do meaningful damage to Magic Bounce users
+ can literally shred through a hyper offensive team's integrity if it gets a Shell Smash
+ can either run Spikes or Tspikes, but never both due to its other slots being mandatory
+ has Toxic Spikes access
+ can Rapid Spin
= This is the one Tspikes user I like, but it still has its problems. It is still a usable Tspike/Spike + spin lead though unlike Forretress.
Excadrill:
I will talk about in Pomman's thread later.
I am curious to see what others think of the lesser used Spikes and Tspikes based leads (other than the two Deoxys formes). This is kinda an oversimplified version of my personal thoughts and I encourage expansion of these thoughts if you think I missed something.
In my personal opinion, Scolipede and Forretress should be deleted with Greninja being a rather unclear decision to me. I thought this was worth discussing while Exca's analysis is in the subforum
Recently, I have been thinking to ask Sweep (or Fireburn) whether or not it would be ok to delete several suicide lead sets from the onsite dex due to reliability issues many of them have. Most of these problems are along the lines of having trouble dealing with Darkrai, Mega Sableye, Deoxys-S/A, Defog, or inherent team issues vs any combination of these + monstrous threats. Lead Excadrill was brought up recently and kinda killed my plans when it was accepted for an analysis. Personally, I don't think lead Excadrill is worth using ever due to it and its team's massive Darkrai and very possible Salamence issues when faced with a Taunt Deoxys-S at the front. I'm not going to go on about Exca here though, I have a rejection post planned for that, but other suicide leads have similar match-up issues:
"=" will be my opinion on the mon based on what is above
Forretress:
- severe Darkrai problems
- is useless vs Sableye
- Is set up bait for many bulky threats when Taunted by Deo-S
+ can Rapid Spin
= not worth using mainly because of the two bolded points
Scolipede:
- severe Sableye issues (it has a small chance of doing something barely meaningful unlike Forry)
- Acts like a worse Deo-S. It trades hazard ability vs bouncers and the useful fast Taunt for a small chance to do meaningful damage
- Diancie may be an issue depending on the Scolipede set
- makes teambuilding really hard due to certain REALLY BIG threats being immune to tspikes
+ can come out on top Deo-A more often than Deo-S and can out-hazard opposing Deo-S some of the time
+ it runs over Darkrai a large amount of the time
+ Toxic Spikes access
= I would rather use Deo-S where hazards are the main goal, Deo-A as a damage / Hazard hybrid, and Cloyster as a Tspiker
Greninja:
- severe Darkrai issues (but has potential to work with Diancie)
- Deoxys-S will get its hazards up most of the time (even with Diancie on the team)
- makes teambuilding really hard due to certain REALLY BIG threats being immune to tspikes
+ reasonably fast Taunt for Defog users
+ can do meaningful damage to Sableye and KO Diancie
+ Toxic Spikes access
= Even though Toxic Spikes are pretty weak right now, this is one of the better users of them. I am on the fence about this one, especially with Cloyster being an option to use instead.
Cloyster:
- severe Darkrai issues (but has teammates to cause a team preview guessing game between it and the Darkrai check)
- causes volatile situations with Mewtwo on double Psychic HO As well as other rare, fast, and powerful Taunt users you may encounter
+ can do meaningful damage to Magic Bounce users
+ can literally shred through a hyper offensive team's integrity if it gets a Shell Smash
+ can either run Spikes or Tspikes, but never both due to its other slots being mandatory
+ has Toxic Spikes access
+ can Rapid Spin
= This is the one Tspikes user I like, but it still has its problems. It is still a usable Tspike/Spike + spin lead though unlike Forretress.
Excadrill:
I will talk about in Pomman's thread later.
I am curious to see what others think of the lesser used Spikes and Tspikes based leads (other than the two Deoxys formes). This is kinda an oversimplified version of my personal thoughts and I encourage expansion of these thoughts if you think I missed something.
In my personal opinion, Scolipede and Forretress should be deleted with Greninja being a rather unclear decision to me. I thought this was worth discussing while Exca's analysis is in the subforum
Nearly everything slower than base 125 speed dislikes Darkrai's existance. Primal Groudon, megamence, Arceus formes not called ekiller, latios, lugia, ext. The list of things that doesn't have darkrai issues is a lot smaller than the ones that do. Yeah some dedicated leads hate it more than others, but coupling a good darkrai check with these leads can really make it a lot easier to deal with (ie sleep talk xern, scarfterrak (Yo scarf terrak doesn't have an analysis? Why?), ext). As for Exca being weak to deo-s leads, it prevents rocks from being up on your side of the field for the entire game, which is literally the point of deo-s. Between the choice of playing 5v5 against sample ho without our suicide leads and I can either have rocks on both sides of the field or on neither, I will pick neither every day of the week. And Deo-S has trouble with Sableye too, the hazard support Sableye supports is why its as good as it is. Yeah its a bad matchup but we're not going to get rid of the analysis for Kangaskhan cause Sableye walls it. Also you're completely ignoring the several big threats that are not in fact immune to toxic spikes like Xerneas, Ekiller, Primal Groudon and more. Ya Mence and Ho-oh and stuff are immune to them but if you'r relying on toxic spikes to check Salamence, that team needs to be redone.
EDIT: Also RE: Exca, will be up and ready for gping by this time tomorrow, very busy with uni today tho.
EDIT: Also RE: Exca, will be up and ready for gping by this time tomorrow, very busy with uni today tho.
In my opinion, the only suicide lead set that warrants deletion is Forretress's. WreckDra stated correctly that it has no discernible niche in this metagame and is severely outlcassed. The other 4 all have unique niches and deserve analyses (except for maybe Greninja). In order of viability, I would rank them Cloyster > Excadrill >> Scolipede > Greninja, with a noticeable gap between the first and latter two.
Cloyster and Exca both mandate similar amounts of support from their team, namely solid Darkrai anti-leads. They're relatively consistent vs every archetype and synergize well with a myriad of potential of anti-Darkrai mons. Leading something like MMY or MGar vs sample HO is justifiable when using them because they can just spin away any hazards Deo-S sets. Spin also opens up Ho-Oh as a potential teammate for handling Darkrai. Both obviously deserve analyses.
Scolipede is one of the few viable anti-leads that effectively deals with Deo-S and Darkrai. This alone grants it a niche in the metagame. Being deadweight vs magic bouncers, MGar, and Mence is really shitty, but it's the best anti-sample team mon out there. imo, it's much easier to make a team good vs bulky stuff than offense in this metagame (just make Dialga the SR setter; also fixes the Mence problem) and Scolipede is one of the fews mons that excels at this.
Greninja's niche is beating both magic bouncers (Modest Hydro 2HKOS MSab). However, it requires the same team support as Cloyster and Exca, but doesn't provide the benefit of anti-leading Deo-S, which is why I can rarely, if ever, can justify using it. Using Greninja mandates Diancie as its team's mega in order not to auto-lose vs the sample HO, which really kills a lot of potential options for support (fitting an offensive spinblocker, fastmon, ekiller check is tough w/o the mega slot on these teams). By far the worst suicide lead because it's dead weight where you need it the most.
Cloyster and Exca both mandate similar amounts of support from their team, namely solid Darkrai anti-leads. They're relatively consistent vs every archetype and synergize well with a myriad of potential of anti-Darkrai mons. Leading something like MMY or MGar vs sample HO is justifiable when using them because they can just spin away any hazards Deo-S sets. Spin also opens up Ho-Oh as a potential teammate for handling Darkrai. Both obviously deserve analyses.
Scolipede is one of the few viable anti-leads that effectively deals with Deo-S and Darkrai. This alone grants it a niche in the metagame. Being deadweight vs magic bouncers, MGar, and Mence is really shitty, but it's the best anti-sample team mon out there. imo, it's much easier to make a team good vs bulky stuff than offense in this metagame (just make Dialga the SR setter; also fixes the Mence problem) and Scolipede is one of the fews mons that excels at this.
Greninja's niche is beating both magic bouncers (Modest Hydro 2HKOS MSab). However, it requires the same team support as Cloyster and Exca, but doesn't provide the benefit of anti-leading Deo-S, which is why I can rarely, if ever, can justify using it. Using Greninja mandates Diancie as its team's mega in order not to auto-lose vs the sample HO, which really kills a lot of potential options for support (fitting an offensive spinblocker, fastmon, ekiller check is tough w/o the mega slot on these teams). By far the worst suicide lead because it's dead weight where you need it the most.
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Greninja and Forretress should be deleted. Cloyster and Scolipede are borderline. Scolipede lacks the Darkrai weakness, Cloyster "lacks" the Sab weakness (doesn't matter much though, it's walled by Waterceus on stall teams anyway). Exca/Cloyster are easy to pair with CB Ho-oh, so the weakness to Darkrai isn't as big as when using Greninja. I guess forry+ho-oh is ok but it lacks the speed to spin.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/gastrodon/uber/
This was clearly written in the XY meta, as it has no mention of PDon and other ORAS mons and talks about Specs Kyogre. Plz delete this, as Gastrodon is pretty unviable in ORAS.
This was clearly written in the XY meta, as it has no mention of PDon and other ORAS mons and talks about Specs Kyogre. Plz delete this, as Gastrodon is pretty unviable in ORAS.
It got a set because it was one of the four original sets that we decided on when Diancie was first written. You haven't provided any argument as to why it should be deleted.
I think if we're going to go to the trouble of bringing up one of the Pokemon that was written earlier on in the ORAS metagame then we should be suggesting revisions that actually add value. Like say a more attuned utility spread or getting Arc Water on the C&C list. I find this much more helpful for the dex than just tossing sets. This is also not the same case as mons like Gastrodon which completely lost their primary niche at the ORAS transition.
I think if we're going to go to the trouble of bringing up one of the Pokemon that was written earlier on in the ORAS metagame then we should be suggesting revisions that actually add value. Like say a more attuned utility spread or getting Arc Water on the C&C list. I find this much more helpful for the dex than just tossing sets. This is also not the same case as mons like Gastrodon which completely lost their primary niche at the ORAS transition.
Hi, I've found something in Excadrill's analysis that is kinda wrong:
I just want to point out that Rock Tomb from Jolly's Excadrill cannot OHKO any Ho-Oh variant:
- 252 Atk Excadrill Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 296-352 (71.3 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 Atk Excadrill Rock Tomb vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh: 220-260 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Excadrill Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 292-348 (82.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery [who uses this lmao]
Hi, I was just reading lugia's analysis and found the explanation for the EV spread to be somewhat confusing.
The recommended spread has 136 speed EVs but nothing in set details mentions what theses EVs do. The only explanation there is is "An alternate Speed benchmark is using 96 Speed EVs to outspeed neutral-natured, fully invested base 90 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant Rayquaza." But that just makes it seem like 96 speed outspeeds Ray and there's still no explanation on what 136 EVs do. I've asked the Ubers room and Pohjis told me that 136 outspeeds Ray while 90 outspeeds base 90 but I feel like it should be worded differently in the analysis to avoid any other confusion.
The recommended spread has 136 speed EVs but nothing in set details mentions what theses EVs do. The only explanation there is is "An alternate Speed benchmark is using 96 Speed EVs to outspeed neutral-natured, fully invested base 90 Speed Pokemon, as well as Adamant Rayquaza." But that just makes it seem like 96 speed outspeeds Ray and there's still no explanation on what 136 EVs do. I've asked the Ubers room and Pohjis told me that 136 outspeeds Ray while 90 outspeeds base 90 but I feel like it should be worded differently in the analysis to avoid any other confusion.
Go to MegaZor's OO and fix the mistake when talking about Choice Band. Just remove the mega since you aren't talking about MegaZor using CB
fixed this
Nayrz, Minority Suspect, and I recently went through this list of proposed changes on the Ubers Dex.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...dex-see-post-380.3523506/page-16#post-6847180
Here's a list of things we already changed (because they were simple and minor):
Here is a list of proposed changes that could use more discussion:
Tagging: Hack, Sweep, WreckDra, shrang
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...dex-see-post-380.3523506/page-16#post-6847180
Here's a list of things we already changed (because they were simple and minor):
Arceus-Dragon: intro reworked to be more concise
Arceus-Fairy: Renamed first set to Offensive Utility, added Toxic slash after Earth Power
Arceus-Fighting: Stone Edge is move 3 and IB/TWave is move 4
Darkrai: NP unslashed, slot 4 is thunder/sludge bomb, sucker punch added to oo, focus sash upgraded to item slash
Kangaskhan: Adamant slashed (was in set details before)
Arceus-Fairy: Renamed first set to Offensive Utility, added Toxic slash after Earth Power
Arceus-Fighting: Stone Edge is move 3 and IB/TWave is move 4
Darkrai: NP unslashed, slot 4 is thunder/sludge bomb, sucker punch added to oo, focus sash upgraded to item slash
Kangaskhan: Adamant slashed (was in set details before)
Here is a list of proposed changes that could use more discussion:
- Arceus-Normal: Replace current Refresh set with a general bulky Adamant set with Recover/coverage in move 4 with a Lum slash (possibly Magic Coat)
- Arceus-Dragon: should we remove CM set
- Arceus-Grass: Full revamp replacing CM with 3 Atks + Recover (GK/IB/SEdge/Recover with Fire Blast in OO)
- Arceus-Ground: Nayrz is gonna write up a skeleton for a special set
- Arceus-Water: Mention of 168 Speed EVs (still Bold nature) for Jolly Rayquaza
- Blaziken: Protect should not be slashed with anything, move 4 is BP/SEdge/SD with Knock Off and HP Ice in OO, LO first item, shoud Mega Stone be moved to OO? Prose needs to be reworked since it kind of oversells Blaziken.
- Dialga: Offensive SR first set, Stealth Rock should not be a slash with anything, move 4 should be Thunder / Fire Blast, Earth Power in moves maybe. Should Defensive and Scarf be removed?
- Giratina-O: Toxic in moves of Hex set (Nayrz and I dont think it should be slashed)
- Ho-Oh: CB first set, switch EVs to max Speed and Atk with Adamant/Jolly, LO has Substitute slashed in 4th move, potential mention of Careful nature on LO set to tank +2 Xern HP Rock
- Kangaskhan: Should Ice Punch be added as a slash/moves (currently OO)?
- Kyogre: Reorder sets to Defensive -> CM -> Physical, CM 3 Atks renamed to just Calm Mind. slashing is now Calm Mind/Origin Pulse/Ice Beam (Blizzard dropped completely or moved to OO)/Thunder or TWave with HP Ground in moves, maybe use a faster EV spread
- Mawile: Foul Play upgraded to moves mention?
- Xerneas: Slashing changed to Geo/MB/Focus Blast | Aroma/Thunder | HP Rock with HP Ground to moves, specs above AoA, axe defensive set. Should HP Rock be slashed first on Geomancy? Should Rest + Geo be put into OO or as a "cheese" option in Moves on the Calm Mind set?
- Yveltal: Knock Off primary slash in Slot 4 of LO set? Maybe use a faster EV spread?
Tagging: Hack, Sweep, WreckDra, shrang
I personally agree with most of these, Refresh is more or less useless since status is rarely used as a means to check ekiller (except on stall, which is becoming increasingly unpopular), and it gives up valuable coverage, forcing one to run ESpeed and Shadow Claw to actually touch bulky ghosts meaning Primal Groudon suddenly becomes a huge problem as it doesn't need status to beat that Ekiller variant 1v1. CM Grassceus is also useless in most situations, it performs well against other support Arceus but does nothing but kill momentum otherwise. 1 turn to set up, giving a free switch to the opponent's counter of choice, and you still can't damage Ho-Oh, Lugia, Klefki, or even Lati, it's just too limited by 4mss. 4 attacks is as well, but much more viable imo since it can put immediate pressure on some of the aforementioned. As for Arceus-Water, the 168 EVs in Speed should only be used if carrying Ice Beam. Arceus-Dragon seems to me it could be viable against some teams, if only because it can set up CMs on stuff it forces out and bop the switchin with a coverage move, though rather situationally.
Yes to removing scarf Dialga, it's just a terrible set, doesn't have particularly great coverage and doesn't have the power to make up for it either. Move 4 should be Toxic / Fire Blast imo, if only because Thunder never hits and Toxic cripples Arceus-Water and Lugia more in the long run. I think toxic should be slashed with twave, Toxic hits Groundceus and is more crippling to support mons but most of Gira-O's common switchins (Xerneas, ygod) dislike paralysis more. Also agree with using a faster EV spread for Yveltal to outspeed most support Arceus and be able to beat them one-on-one.
Yes to removing scarf Dialga, it's just a terrible set, doesn't have particularly great coverage and doesn't have the power to make up for it either. Move 4 should be Toxic / Fire Blast imo, if only because Thunder never hits and Toxic cripples Arceus-Water and Lugia more in the long run. I think toxic should be slashed with twave, Toxic hits Groundceus and is more crippling to support mons but most of Gira-O's common switchins (Xerneas, ygod) dislike paralysis more. Also agree with using a faster EV spread for Yveltal to outspeed most support Arceus and be able to beat them one-on-one.
For the support Arceus, another benchmark worth mentioning that actually can matter is 124 speed bold nature to outspeed the jolly ho-ohs and pdons running around to take advantage of slower arceus formes. Also yes remove CM Arc-Drag, nobody would ever seriously run that. I'm still not a fan of the special Arc-ground proposal though that can wait for the skeleton.
Blazikenite and life orb should still be slashed as items, its not like Mega-Blaze's set is any different and we can word it so that its clear life orb blaze is more often than not the better choice than mega blaze without reducing the mega to an OO mention.
Toxic is pretty much the only move I'd ever use on Dialga in the fourth slot, it enables it to reliably beat waterceus in the long run, thunder doesn't hit nearly frequently enough for it to work, and fire blast doesn't have many targets I plan on using dialga for. Klefki still gets whacked by flash cannon any way, and more niche stuff aren't common enough to compromise Dialga's ability to get and keep up rocks up.
Mawile with foul play is good, to the point where I'd probably slash it with BP, but that would require a re-write of the analysis, given how BP focused it is.
Kanga, ice punch should probably be mentioned in moves but I wouldn't outright slash it, but on the topic of kanga, does anyone use Earthquake over low kick? I'd definitely say low kick should be slashed if not the preferred move on kanga, so it can check ekiller without sacking a mon or two to kill it with fake out and failing to do so if it has recover. Again this makes klefki a check but who uses klefki as their Kangaskhan answer in the first place, and it will nearly get 2hkod by return anyway. As for hitting pdon, unless Impish is more common than I've been seeing, return and EQ are both 2hkos on it after rocks damage.
As for Xern, rest should probably be mentioned in moves due to how common it is. I dont personally like the set that much, but there's no denying that it can steamroll teams with minimal effort.
Other stuff is fine,
Blazikenite and life orb should still be slashed as items, its not like Mega-Blaze's set is any different and we can word it so that its clear life orb blaze is more often than not the better choice than mega blaze without reducing the mega to an OO mention.
Toxic is pretty much the only move I'd ever use on Dialga in the fourth slot, it enables it to reliably beat waterceus in the long run, thunder doesn't hit nearly frequently enough for it to work, and fire blast doesn't have many targets I plan on using dialga for. Klefki still gets whacked by flash cannon any way, and more niche stuff aren't common enough to compromise Dialga's ability to get and keep up rocks up.
Mawile with foul play is good, to the point where I'd probably slash it with BP, but that would require a re-write of the analysis, given how BP focused it is.
Kanga, ice punch should probably be mentioned in moves but I wouldn't outright slash it, but on the topic of kanga, does anyone use Earthquake over low kick? I'd definitely say low kick should be slashed if not the preferred move on kanga, so it can check ekiller without sacking a mon or two to kill it with fake out and failing to do so if it has recover. Again this makes klefki a check but who uses klefki as their Kangaskhan answer in the first place, and it will nearly get 2hkod by return anyway. As for hitting pdon, unless Impish is more common than I've been seeing, return and EQ are both 2hkos on it after rocks damage.
As for Xern, rest should probably be mentioned in moves due to how common it is. I dont personally like the set that much, but there's no denying that it can steamroll teams with minimal effort.
Other stuff is fine,
Arceus-Normal: Agree on removing refresh. Lum slash is ok i suppose so long as it is last on the ada set. I am very skeptical on Magic Coat.
Arceus-Dragon: yes we should remover the CM set.
Arceus-Grass: Full revamp replacing CM with 3 Atks + Recover (GK/IB/SEdge/Recover with Fire Blast in OO) <- sounds good to me
Arceus-Water: Mention of 168 Speed EVs (still Bold nature) for Jolly Rayquaza <- I never tried this myself so idk
Blaziken: The problem here is SD wants Stone Edge... really badly. We are never gonna get this mon perfect because it wants 7 moveslots and 2-3 of its 4 are decided just by using it. This mon is really bad and yeah i do think the overview should reflect that more.
Dialga: Offensive SR first set, Stealth Rock should not be a slash with anything, move 4 should be Twave, Toxic, Thunder, Roar (just based on feedback from people and not in any particular order) | Should Defensive and Scarf be removed? yes
Giratina-O: Toxic in moves of Hex set (Nayrz and I dont think it should be slashed) <-agree
Ho-Oh: CB first set yes. I think the two spreads should be slashed on have the max speed one in Set details at least. Both are very good, but I still think the bulkier one has the edge in terms of what it fits on (it requires less to fit on a team than the faster one)
Kangaskhan: Should Ice Punch be added as a slash/moves (currently OO)? yes; moves at least
Kyogre: Reorder sets to Defensive -> CM -> Physical, CM 3 Atks renamed to just Calm Mind. slashing is now Calm Mind/Origin Pulse/Ice Beam (Blizzard dropped completely or moved to OO)/Thunder or TWave with HP Ground in moves, maybe use a faster EV spread <- dunno
Mawile: Foul Play upgraded to moves mention? yes
Xerneas: Slashing changed to Geo/MB/Focus Blast | Aroma/Thunder | HP Rock with HP Ground to moves, specs above AoA, axe defensive set. Should HP Rock be slashed first on Geomancy? Should Rest + Geo be put into OO or as a "cheese" option in Moves on the Calm Mind set? <- Why on the cm set? The cheese sets seem to work (they are relying on too much imo but somehow...), so I suppose they should be in moves / set details of the Geomancy set. Axe cm and move AoA to OO imo
Yveltal: Knock Off primary slash in Slot 4 of LO set? Maybe use a faster EV spread? idk if faster is needed for it. I think we would be delving into creep territory if we made it faster. I built something with it recently that prefers HEat Wave so i'm not sure about the Knock Off being primarily slashed. (the strong bird is on so few builds, most of which I haven't seen, that I can't tell)
Arceus-Dragon: yes we should remover the CM set.
Arceus-Grass: Full revamp replacing CM with 3 Atks + Recover (GK/IB/SEdge/Recover with Fire Blast in OO) <- sounds good to me
Arceus-Water: Mention of 168 Speed EVs (still Bold nature) for Jolly Rayquaza <- I never tried this myself so idk
Blaziken: The problem here is SD wants Stone Edge... really badly. We are never gonna get this mon perfect because it wants 7 moveslots and 2-3 of its 4 are decided just by using it. This mon is really bad and yeah i do think the overview should reflect that more.
Dialga: Offensive SR first set, Stealth Rock should not be a slash with anything, move 4 should be Twave, Toxic, Thunder, Roar (just based on feedback from people and not in any particular order) | Should Defensive and Scarf be removed? yes
Giratina-O: Toxic in moves of Hex set (Nayrz and I dont think it should be slashed) <-agree
Ho-Oh: CB first set yes. I think the two spreads should be slashed on have the max speed one in Set details at least. Both are very good, but I still think the bulkier one has the edge in terms of what it fits on (it requires less to fit on a team than the faster one)
Kangaskhan: Should Ice Punch be added as a slash/moves (currently OO)? yes; moves at least
Kyogre: Reorder sets to Defensive -> CM -> Physical, CM 3 Atks renamed to just Calm Mind. slashing is now Calm Mind/Origin Pulse/Ice Beam (Blizzard dropped completely or moved to OO)/Thunder or TWave with HP Ground in moves, maybe use a faster EV spread <- dunno
Mawile: Foul Play upgraded to moves mention? yes
Xerneas: Slashing changed to Geo/MB/Focus Blast | Aroma/Thunder | HP Rock with HP Ground to moves, specs above AoA, axe defensive set. Should HP Rock be slashed first on Geomancy? Should Rest + Geo be put into OO or as a "cheese" option in Moves on the Calm Mind set? <- Why on the cm set? The cheese sets seem to work (they are relying on too much imo but somehow...), so I suppose they should be in moves / set details of the Geomancy set. Axe cm and move AoA to OO imo
Yveltal: Knock Off primary slash in Slot 4 of LO set? Maybe use a faster EV spread? idk if faster is needed for it. I think we would be delving into creep territory if we made it faster. I built something with it recently that prefers HEat Wave so i'm not sure about the Knock Off being primarily slashed. (the strong bird is on so few builds, most of which I haven't seen, that I can't tell)
Double posting, but this is about cs yveltal:
I was thinking of making Choice Scarf Yveltal 326 Speed (max w/ nature) because of its ability to KO +1 Mence at 80% with Foul Play. The real number I use is 321 Speed just because 320 is what Salamence can use without sacrificing a very large chunk of its utility. I can't use that real number because it would be counted as creep but using max speed just for that is a better reason than "more power" and "checking E-killer when it has full health" (which never happens). I personally like it better but I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention a day before I change it for other opinions. It was just an interesting quirk that was brought to my attention the other day by none other than Mr. Lord Outrage.
I may or may not have posted this in the wrong thread before it ended up here.
I was thinking of making Choice Scarf Yveltal 326 Speed (max w/ nature) because of its ability to KO +1 Mence at 80% with Foul Play. The real number I use is 321 Speed just because 320 is what Salamence can use without sacrificing a very large chunk of its utility. I can't use that real number because it would be counted as creep but using max speed just for that is a better reason than "more power" and "checking E-killer when it has full health" (which never happens). I personally like it better but I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention a day before I change it for other opinions. It was just an interesting quirk that was brought to my attention the other day by none other than Mr. Lord Outrage.
I may or may not have posted this in the wrong thread before it ended up here.
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