-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
OU Umbreon
- Thread starter Swamp Link
- Start date
Dude, I'm just saying that I've always seen alternative notes for unobtainable moves for x and y. I dont think there is any reason to be up in arms about it. People like to use pokemon they like and not just completely competitive use, so I dont think it's really fair for you to tell me not just a pokemon. I use a lanturn in OU and most people would say that you shouldn't ever run it without heal bell on it, but the page for that provides alternatives for when that's impossible and I love that (I run it with thunderbolt instead). Some of the lesser informed turn to smogon for help and/or advice and I feel that they also need to be catered for. Saying all this I appreciate that you should obviously put the best sets as the actual set, all I ask for is a little note section acknowledging the non PS users. (I feel that I should note that this post is not meant in anyway to insult the original poster, although I admit to being quite insulted by the moderator, whose response was a bit sharp and not very sympathetic)
Last edited:
I've never seen an analysis that has ever specified what's obtainable in-game or not, except for event-only pokemon or movesets (Gamestop Dogs). Again, the point of the analysis are to determine/list what is the MOST viable moveset/role a given pokemon can play in the current metagame. The moves and other options sections list other possibilities, and you may find a suitable replacement move (like TB on Lanturn), but having a specific section for in-game only is pointless and not the focus of these analysis. In the case of Umbreon, there are simply no better options than foul play and heal bell.
Please stop this conversation at once.
Smogon analyses describes the best sets based on the best available combinations, no matter how hard it is to get in real time. In-game XY simply does not offer good options like Knock Off, Foul Play, Heal Bell, and Hyper Voice that are offered in tutor and event moves in previous generations, but we really don't make exceptions to this. Analyses are sort of, in a way, catered to online simulator play, so I apologize, but a section for XY-exclusive Umbreons isn't worth it (as is other things like XY Zapdos which cannot have Heat Wave or Defog).
Smogon analyses describes the best sets based on the best available combinations, no matter how hard it is to get in real time. In-game XY simply does not offer good options like Knock Off, Foul Play, Heal Bell, and Hyper Voice that are offered in tutor and event moves in previous generations, but we really don't make exceptions to this. Analyses are sort of, in a way, catered to online simulator play, so I apologize, but a section for XY-exclusive Umbreons isn't worth it (as is other things like XY Zapdos which cannot have Heat Wave or Defog).
ok, alright I get it. There's really no place I can look in future? (and thank you for being more polite, I appreciate that)
one could imagine a set 4 umbreon like physical wall? Would not it be better? Whereas Foul play brings out faster utilizer of sword dance. Otherwise what's the point foul play? Umbreon defender takes special 2Kho from Excadrill Earthquake of life orb, while physical defender takes a measly 37% then allowing it to get it off with Foul Play. I'm not an expert and I know that, however, the role of physical wall would always be outclassed by Mandibuzz, though it might be an idea "better" I think (?)
Yeah physically defensive is really terribly outclassed by Mandibuzz and even Tyranitar... Specially Defensive should definitely be the only spread.
Here in fact. Despite umbreon is one of my favorite pokemon in OU I have to admit that there would be nothing. Too many pokemon control it all. 2/3 of the OU metagame. With the addition of fairy her way becomes even more intricate and is outclassed in addition, as a special wall, from sylveon that has now taken the place also vaporeon as it has a more solid typing.
On a positive note, however, we can say that in UU definitely breaks. At least here there are not entire teams that destroy him LOL
BurningMan
fueled by beer
Meh as it was said before Umbreon needs all of Wish/Protect/Foul Play/Heal Bell to not be totally outclassed and actually effective.
A set like you propose would propably have Wish/Protect/BDE/Toxic so you have no attacking moves and would be walled by every poison/steel type you could throw out Wish+Protect for Moonlight to have room for foul play but moonlight isn't reliable and has low PP and BDE makes Foul Play hit for less damage which also sucks.
All very true. To deal with Poison/Steel types you could always run Yawn and force them to sleep or switch out. You would have to run Toxic/BDE/Yawn with Protect or Moonlight in the last slot. Not sure how good it would be. It would need entry hazard support for a start.
