UMPL VI - Format Discussion

[a fairy]

artwork by Clem​

Hello everyone! This thread is expected to be open until manager signups. The intent of this thread is to determine the format of UMPL VI. Confirmed hosts for this tournament are goldmason Tuthur ego. Manager signups will go up September 13th with player signups being September 21st. Some useful links you may want to look over before or while reading this thread include the format discussion, manager signups, player signups, and administrative decisions threads from last year.

A recap of last year's stuff that might be worth discussing:
UMFL - the community seemed to view it as a success. Should it come back?
12 slots - we added an NFE and 2v2 slot (for a total of two each) to bring our total slots to 12. Should we change this?
3rd manager - most teams had a third manager. Was it a success? Should we go back to two?
Self buys - we had self-buys last year (max 2, priced at 17,500 given the player count total) and most teams bought at least one. Should this return?
Retains - we did not do retains at all last year. Part of the argument was that it was out of the blue, but now that we've had a year of them potentially arriving, do we want retains?

These are discussion topics that can go in a number of different directions, even beyond what was covered in the OP - if you think you have a good idea to put forward towards a discussion started here, or even a good idea not brought up here, do bring it up!

Our overall goal is for this to be a successful tournament, and that starts by figuring out what format works the best for the community. Please be kind and courteous to leadership, hosts when they are announced, other members in the thread, and other UM tiers. Tier bashing will not be tolerated and can lead to infractions. The quickest way to get your suggestion or argument discarded is by tearing down or trashing another tier.

 

[a fairy]

Pinging:
Last year managers: crow crumbs Nuxl MirrorSaMa emoxu9 SpaceSpeakers Hugo Despacito87 Fragments Baddy Kry ojr zastra Lord Rekkuza sleid Itchy Adhi a fairy Rasche lemonstre1 Jeza.p Toxinalpaca RoFnA
UMPL format leaders not yet pinged: Felucia lost heros yuki entrocefalo PandaDoux Celeste diego BaitWiz

If I missed someone sorry, feel free to ping them as part of another post or send this thread to them otherwise.

 

[OceanicGamer]

Gonna kick off the thread with talking about UMFL. I will, of course, continue to look at the thread and talk about other matters, but I really want to talk about UMFL first.

UMFL was very fun and awesome, I am a bit biased because I won it (with my goat Alexw ) but I think that last UMFL was an amazing success. It did everything I think UMFL was supposed to do- give players a second chance at proving themselves that they couldn't get in UMPL. Off the top of my head, my goats Kochu and DBD both signed up and got drafted for UMCL, which means that it did that very well in that regard. Obviously, this year can be different- perhaps not many people will sign up for UMPL this year, but I think regardless there will be many people who, unfortunately, won't be drafted or will be too intimidated to sign up (I know I was at some point), I fully think UMFL should come back this year, it was an amazing tour last year. Me and maybca's cord was peak, I heard good things about Fishy's discord as well, and I have no doubt UMFL will be peak again this year

 

[Lord Rekkuza]

Oh my god I'm a relevant voice for this :wow:. My humble opinions on these topics:

UMFL: While I wasn't necessarily a manager or player for this, I was in two separate umfl servers, both of which had some really good vibes, so from that perspective I think it was definitely a successful tournament. I don't know what the exact numbers were, but if there was a strong number of signups last year, then I see no reason for it not to be held again this year, especially since the majority perspective on it is favorable.
12 slots: About adding a second nfe and 2v2 slot, I can only speak to how it worked out with my team. We were able to fill those slots with strong players, so it didn't seem forced in any regard to have to deal with the extra slots. I think the balance that we have with 2 slots for every main tier seems to work well, and there's no need to consider going lower than 12. And, since this is a tangential topic, I quite like the balance between UMPL and UMCL - being able to have the standard, big flagship tour stay constant and then have the other tournament use flex slots as an opportunity to both cater to the favorite tiers while also allowing the newer tiers the chance to shine.
3rd manager: Pretty great, I can't imagine people were upset with it. UMs covers a lot of different areas, so it's just nice to be able to cover a lot of ground to better support your team.
Self buys: 2 self buys, also great. Nothing for that needs to change. There could potentially be a first self buy cheaper, second self buy more expensive situation, but I'm not versed enough on the merits/cons to it to be able to speak towards it.
Retains: This is probably the most important topic here, right? There are definitely a lot of strong options based on last year to grab as retains, but it is pretty decently spread across the different teams, so I don't think it would be "broken" to implement it this year. Especially if you have like a 2 player cap with a 12 slot tournament. There will always be people that go for too cheap, and people who are hidden gems amid the swath of the UMs - waiting for the right year to start retains would never really work. Anyways, I'm pretty impartial to it overall. I'm not vying for it, but I don't think I would complain if they were implemented this year.

On a related note: FRANCHISES. I know this was a topic last year, and it went pretty back and forth. The biggest aspect of this is just team identity, and I think it is a really cool idea that lowkey might work in the long run, but for now it's too soon? There was a decent amount of switch up between umpl 2024 and 2025 managers, and from what I've been hearing through the grapevine, there will be again this year. That's not to say I'm not expecting certain repeat managers, but I think we are just shy of seeing enough expected repeats for true franchising. However, I do think that if it were to be something that gains more traction and community desire, I could see successful franchises being established next year from (what I expect of) this year's teams.

 

[PandaDoux]

NFE will gladly participate in this iteration of UMPL like every year :)

We had a very strong pool last year with 2 slots, no reason for us to not have a strong pool this year as well, especially when it's happening right after NFEPL, which is when we have the most amount of newcomers.

About 12 slots i believe Lord Rekkuza summed up my thoughts perfectly.
Don't have a strong opinion on any other subject

 

[Finchely]

I may make another longer post later, but I'm making this post now to say that UMFL should absolutely return. I see no reason outside why another UMFL wouldn't be a good idea, unless there are logistics problems that I'm unaware of. Regardless of whether or not there are logistics issues, I think UMFL is invaluable for developing the playerbases of all UMs, and is worth dedicating time and (mostly just human) resources in order to bring back. The number of PL-viable players can sometimes be just a small subsection of a given tier's playerbase, and UMFL gives a chance for the rest of the players to act in proximity to the PL, as well as experience in team tournaments in general - a crucial experience that has shaped quite likely all of us here.

 

[AthenaStrive9]

Could we consider adding 4v4 Doubles UU (Bo3) as a slot for UMPL VI? The only other doubles UM is 2v2 Doubles, which is more akin to 1v1 than an actual doubles format. I've been told that a past concern was a low player count, but the 4v4 Doubles UU community has been especially thriving since the release of Champions and even prior to that managed to pull enough players for UMCL I.

Attracting doubles talent for UMPL VI would be great for diversifying the playing field, and would also bring more attention to doubles when most UMs are singles-based. I know that myself and many others would look forward to playing 4v4 Doubles UU in UMPL VI if it was available as a format, especially with Regulation M-C right around the corner.

 

[sheepie]

UMFL - incredibly fun even just as a supporter, no doubt should come back
12 slots - i like the 12 slots format but i would like some shifts to match the new ums, i think that the most plausible solution is to remove a slot from 2v2 as its not part of the main circuit and replace it with a slot of either 4v4 duu or monocolor (my preference is 4v4 but i am naturally biased and would be happy to see either included). 4v4 in particular has an active and well formed playerbase in addition to the advent of champions potentially drawing a further attention to the format. it would do a lot of favours to the 4v4 community and also help bring a bit more attention to the tour. however, i do understand the counterpoints of like it being a newer tier, removing a slot from 2v2, a core format, among other things so id love to see further discussion and see what others think about whether we should include monocolor and/or 4v4 duu and if so what to remove (i think adding more slots could work maybe but it'd likely be way too much).

i really did not like the format of umcl with mono flex slots and i feel it did a disservice to the newer slots and was just messy, so a more consistent format to really give these new formats their time of day would be great. to include both would insinuate removing another slot from one of the other tiers, but 2v2 is the only one with a really strong case against it's inclusion due to not being part of the circuit and also the pool being relatively weak last year at least in my eyes. (dont get me wrong i love 2v2 and i wont complain about 2 2v2 slots but i would prefer 4v4 or monocolor's inclusion). if i must chose one it would likely be ag or 1v1 due to already having a ca tour to their names (iirc) but all have their cases for and against and im not trying to suggest any of these tiers (including 2v2) are inherently less worthy of inclusion. (off topic but at least i would like to see a reevalution of the umcl format when the time comes but thats not for months so ill leave that be)

in short, my ideal would be:
2x 1v1 nfe ag zu uubers
1x 2v2
1x 4v4 duu or monocolor
or
2x 4 of (1v1 nfe ag zu uubers)
1x 2v2
1x 1 of (1v1 nfe ag zu uubers)
1x 4v4
1x monocolour
however if it remains the same i would be content which i understand is the preference of many

3rd manager - 3rd manager is for the best for sure cause of the sheer variety of tiers covered
Self buys - keep them the same
Retains - im really not a fan of retains so id prefer their exclusion but i dont have much to add further then that

im tired as shit so some of these points might be incoherent

 

[FishyRoads]

Fishy round of opinions
UMFL - YES PLEASE, UMFL was great and i'd assume similar success this time around
12 slots - I think the 6x2 of Main UMs is great and i would advocate to keep the non main UMs to UMCL or similar tournamets for now
3rd manager - Good to be this way, especially given the tier variety of the tournament
Self buys - 2/3 buys is good, wouldn't want this to change outside of changing prices
Retains - Personally just dislike the concept of retains, would not like this happening

 

[Shadow079]

12 Slots: Bit awkward as a team size, but I still think it's the best solution when trying to fit 6 formats with no de facto primary format to funnel aditional slots into.
3 Managers: Good, no need to revert
Self Buys: 17.5k was a good price and likely still is.
Retains: I'm pro-retain, find it just makes tours more fun and helps to establish team legacy that can feed into overall hype for the tour.

 

[Alexw]

12 slots : Yes, nfe has an incredible playerbase with more than 12 players capable of doing really great, nfepl showed it perfectly. 2v2 feels also great, I think it's way way easier to fill 12 2v2 slot than people think, 2v2pl also revealed some player that people may have thought they wouldn't be able to play 2v2. Ladder tournament revealed a lot of promising players, Last year felt great in my team, I don't see why we should change it. ( And i'm also for equality so giving two slots to AG or whatever ums but one to only nfe/2v2 while those metagames have a lot of players feel bad, really bad). And ye same as fishyroad I prefer monocolor 4v4uu statmons and others to stay in umcl, so maybe we can have a umcl dedicated to this meta and umpl where we have the big 6.
3 managers : Good, not 100% needed, hugo and despacito didn't need a 3rd managers but had a great run.
Self buys : Same as last year especially if the budget is the same, I like double self buy I don't think it's unfair for the competivity of the tournament
Retains : hell nah, I hate retains, but I guess if franchise is something um will do retains have to be here too
Franchise : 50/50 I don't really care, but as Lord Rekkuza said I don't think it's the good year to do it.
UMFL : I Agree 100% with what ocean said, umfl was really fun last year, it showed great talents that were able to have some wins in umcl. UMFL is perfect for the one that need a tour as their reference to be picked in other, starting in umpl but going 0-7 is really bad, umfl is really great to give everyone that willing to perform a chance and to grow even more so next year they can be picked as managers.

 

[Fragments]

I am in favor of keeping everything the same as last year with the sole exception of adding retains.

Retains help cultivate the identity of a tour, being able to carry a few key players from one year to the next establishes a franchise and gives personality to each team. Retains are featured even in the most prestigious tours on this site (SPL/SCL), which is just further testament to their value. There really is no drawback as they are designed to reward skillful drafting from the previous year; even if a retain is considered "broken" that is simply a direct result of a manager identifying a player's value better than their peers, something which should be encouraged so that we continue to operate at the highest level possible. Retains require managers to make strategic decisions, as the quality of a retain can genuinely make or break a team. As someone who primarily enjoys the mental aspect of drafting, I believe it just adds to the fun to have this extra piece on the board that managers have to consider. Retains make for a more dynamic tour and create a higher competitive ceiling, and I would like to see how UMPL managers adapt to this new component.

Also if anyone is adverse to retains that is of course reasonable, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but so far the only dissenting opinions have been justified by "I just don't like them." I feel like I don't have to explain why this is not a strong standard when discussing tournament logistics. And it's not really something I can respond to either because there's no objective reasoning to challenge. If anyone is staunchly against retains and has a genuine basis for an argument, please present that so we can have more productive conversation.

 

[crow crumbs]

Just some quick thoughts:

UMFL: Don't see why the tour shouldn't return.

My question for people who were involved in UMFL last year: what did yall think about barring UMPL participants from joining? Should that remain an element? There's definitely cases where players are viable enough to get drafted but are unlikely to start and cannot play in the farm league, which does suck. However, if the level of play/hype last year was at a good level then it's probably fine to keep.

12 slots: Definitely don't go back down to 10 slots. I think monocolor is an absolutely not (coming from a monopl manager and color bo3 starter :joy:). 4v4 duu is more enticing but I don't think the benefits outweigh the costs with a format change + further siloing of different tiers.

3rd manager: Good change, should definitely stay.

Self buys: Fine to keep, I think the price is reasonable. We should never consider lowering it, might be a case for raising it.

Retains: I am down to try them. The only time I really dislike retains is when the tour playing community is in decline but the rules around retains have stayed the same, so the effect ends up being that everyone grabs their one sneaky buy and the 3 big names left in the pool get squeezed for 28k (describing 1v1 here). This definitely does not apply to UMPL as a whole and I appreciate the positive effects they bring for tour/franchise identity.

My question about retains: How are these interacting with the self-buy cap? Would it just be 2 people obtainable pre-auction in general? Or would this come with a higher limit if implemented?

 

[bern]

retains are good when the tournament scene is competitive and [not like 1v1's]
self-buys should remain 17.5k
umfl is epic
12 slots is fine
3 managers is what we should aim for.

regarding other UMs in UMPL: I would really like to stress what Alexw said about 2v2 and its quite notorious increase in players; 2v2LT alone revealed some interesting stars, and it is likely that Fall Seasonal will do so as well.
This said, it is impossible to not notice the impact 4v4DUU has had on some level, however i do think the playerbase is quite small to field a slot, while the 2v2 playerbase is plenty to field two. TL;DR keep everything the same and make retains a thing.

 

[Kingler]

i don't see why umpl participants should play in umfl. it's just another record to add on for them and it dilutes the league and makes it kinda unfair to a degree i would argue. allow UMPL players to manage and managers to play maybe lmao? it sounds silly but the biggest issue i have w it is just players playing both and managers managing both

 

[GigaBytes7]

i don't see why umpl participants should play in umfl. it's just another record to add on for them and it dilutes the league and makes it kinda unfair to a degree i would argue. allow UMPL players to manage and managers to play maybe lmao? it sounds silly but the biggest issue i have w it is just players playing both and managers managing both

Click to collapse...

the argument for umpl participants is for non-starters who, a lot of the time, don't even get to play a single game meaning they don't have a record at all (other than getting drafted in 2 tours but be real who cares if you get drafted into an fl)
personally i think allowing people who haven't played a single umpl game by the time fl starts is fine but that only works if fl starts a few weeks into pl. ive seen it done in other tiers and it feels fine. in fact, letting managers of pl who didnt selfbuy play fl sounds worse to me than letting subs in bc if you look at the managers from last year, the playing quality of managers tends to be pretty high; definitely much higher than your average fl player

edit cause i dont want to make another post:
i support retains. agree with a lot of what fragments so im not gonna parrot too much. mostly think it's a good way to build a sense of community and can make teamtours a lot more fun so it's worth a try

 

[pengu]

not gonna make a huge post here

1. I personally (bias lol) think that 4v4 DUU could be included. The huge underlying issue I see is not necessarily the playerbase, but more so the changing format, though this may not be an issue depending on how long the tour runs and when it starts, since Regulation M-C is starting soon (for 4v4 DUU, it would start October 1st since we need ladder usage statistics). If the playerbase and the size of it is an issue then I'd personally not mind waiting another year for it to be our time.
2. UMFL should return. It's a place (like any other FL) for players that went unpurchased in UMPL to showcase their skills and hopefully level up. UMPL bench riders should be allowed to get drafted in FL imo, they likely won't get drafted in UMPL the following year if they aren't given the chance to put up a record and especially if they don't help with supporting. UMFL helps them put up that record to hopefully achieve a starting position in the following year.
3. Hinted at this a bit w/ 4v4 DUU but I like 12 slots. I don't see a reason why not to do this. It allows for more players (which can be harder but is generally better imo) and NFE and 2v2 clearly have the players to fill these slots out.

I don't have much to say on anything else, hope for a good UMPL

 

[BaitWiz]

Slots - My understanding is that 12 slots seemed pretty smooth and should be fine. I don't really have input for tiers outside of ZU, but we're still going strong and while UMPL isn't something that attracts a ton of players from ZU, there's still more than enough to make for two capable ZU slots for every team interested.
Third Manager - Similarly, my understanding is that three managers worked well for most teams. I don't think it should be a hard requirement (idk if it was, lol) but I think it should be an option for sure.
UMFL - I think players who start in UMPL should be allowed to sign up for UMFL, but should be barred from playing any tier they have played in UMPL. This lets people explore tiers outside of their 'main' tier in a competitive environment, while still giving space for the people who main tiers but are left unproven get a chance to shine in a different league. There's some precedent for this in other tournaments like NUFL, I'm certain there's probably a dozen other examples as well.
Retains - Retains are fine, man. Add the typical 3k tax for retention + minimum price (I think 10k is the usual, but maybe something else fits better here?), rewards good drafting from the previous year, allows players to build a legacy on certain teams/being part of certain teams, it's just fun stuff. I've seen some ridiculous retains happen on this site and the tours they happened in were still typically exciting to watch. Especially in a tournament where there's twelve slots per team, retaining two players isn't gonna be the craziest thing in the world.
Selfbuys - Seem fine as is at 17.5k each. Could change to 17.5k + 1k per positive differential or something like that, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Celeste]

Have strong opinions for only two things so I will touch on just those here, ftr support 12 slots and a third manager

Retains:
I'd like to see retains this year, after having a year to sit on them I think that they would be a net benefit to UMPL, and give us a cool oppourtunity to start moving towards things like franchises and the like. I think its a good thing for creating a stronger tour identity as fragments mentioned and also adds another competative aspect to draft creation as it can be pretty high risk at times, which does help keep things balanced. Looking at the current pool of players I don't think I see many players who I would expect to be a cheap retain that would go x-0, but I do see a lot of players who had great runs across all teams for reasonable prices who would be valuable retains. I think it's also just fun! Not entirely sure if we need a minimum price, I think if there was one I'd probably place it around 8k looking at the draft board from last year cause I don't think many teams would take advantage of it otherwise, with a 3k tax. but thats up for debate

UMFL:
We have a bit more time to discuss this, but obviously I want to see UMFL come back, AND I would like to see some format changes. I think it should stay 1 slot per format, but I would like to see UMFL become a grounds to also see some of our "non-core" metas get a chance to be a part of this tour, both so that they can get more play but also so that we can broaden the range of people who can get more involved in UMs and feel they are having their tiers represented. For now, I think this simply means expanding to include Monocolour and 4v4 DUU as statmons is pretty new + odd number of tiers lol. I think the communities of both these tiers would greatly appreciate the representation, and I don't think it has any serious reprocussions!

The one main issue I have seen with the idea of including these tiers is the player skill gap that may come with players dipping into these tiers, like say an Ewin in monocolour or Thacrow (congrats on top 4 worlds btw man) in DUU. I think this is fair, but I also believe that given the variety of tiers that UMs has FL shouldn't just exist to funnel newer players into our core tiers, it should exist as a way to get more people overall involved in team tour play as a whole by including as much of the community in it as we can. Ubers recently had its own FL equivalent in Ubers Challenger League, which after much discussion allowed for UPL players to play in it and in some cases play tiers they are incredibly good at (the bw pool was disgusting), but overall it was received very well as it became just as much about the community involvement and the chance to play rather then a stricter team tour. If you run into a stronger player, is that not a good oppourtunity to get a proper taste of what higher-level team tour play in that tier looks like? Now, I don't think UMFL should allow UMPL players to dip into it, as I do think with the limited number of tiers it is best to give the players that don't get as many team tour oppourtunities to play, but I think the inclusion of DUU and Monocolour would be excellent and hope to see more support for that when more focused UMFL conversation happens.

 

[sheepie]

Have strong opinions for only two things so I will touch on just those here, ftr support 12 slots and a third manager

Retains:
I'd like to see retains this year, after having a year to sit on them I think that they would be a net benefit to UMPL, and give us a cool oppourtunity to start moving towards things like franchises and the like. I think its a good thing for creating a stronger tour identity as fragments mentioned and also adds another competative aspect to draft creation as it can be pretty high risk at times, which does help keep things balanced. Looking at the current pool of players I don't think I see many players who I would expect to be a cheap retain that would go x-0, but I do see a lot of players who had great runs across all teams for reasonable prices who would be valuable retains. I think it's also just fun! Not entirely sure if we need a minimum price, I think if there was one I'd probably place it around 8k looking at the draft board from last year cause I don't think many teams would take advantage of it otherwise, with a 3k tax. but thats up for debate

UMFL:
We have a bit more time to discuss this, but obviously I want to see UMFL come back, AND I would like to see some format changes. I think it should stay 1 slot per format, but I would like to see UMFL become a grounds to also see some of our "non-core" metas get a chance to be a part of this tour, both so that they can get more play but also so that we can broaden the range of people who can get more involved in UMs and feel they are having their tiers represented. For now, I think this simply means expanding to include Monocolour and 4v4 DUU as statmons is pretty new + odd number of tiers lol. I think the communities of both these tiers would greatly appreciate the representation, and I don't think it has any serious reprocussions!

The one main issue I have seen with the idea of including these tiers is the player skill gap that may come with players dipping into these tiers, like say an Ewin in monocolour or Thacrow (congrats on top 4 worlds btw man) in DUU. I think this is fair, but I also believe that given the variety of tiers that UMs has FL shouldn't just exist to funnel newer players into our core tiers, it should exist as a way to get more people overall involved in team tour play as a whole by including as much of the community in it as we can. Ubers recently had its own FL equivalent in Ubers Challenger League, which after much discussion allowed for UPL players to play in it and in some cases play tiers they are incredibly good at (the bw pool was disgusting), but overall it was received very well as it became just as much about the community involvement and the chance to play rather then a stricter team tour. If you run into a stronger player, is that not a good oppourtunity to get a proper taste of what higher-level team tour play in that tier looks like? Now, I don't think UMFL should allow UMPL players to dip into it, as I do think with the limited number of tiers it is best to give the players that don't get as many team tour oppourtunities to play, but I think the inclusion of DUU and Monocolour would be excellent and hope to see more support for that when more focused UMFL

Click to collapse...

Replying only to the fl part but basically my only real issue I have with this is that some players who are umpl starter level in other tiers might be discouraged from signing up. For example, I played 2v2 for umpl last year and would be happy to try and play again however if 4v4 duu is on offer in fl I would consider not signing up for pl so I could have the chance at playing it in fl. I won’t project this feeling into other members of the 4v4 community (namely gephicka and pengu who I consider to be stater level 2v2 players) it could very well just be a me problem but it’s something to consider

Edit: general comment but please don’t let pl signed players play in fl it would make thr tour a lot worse through a lot of ways skill gaps not growing the community as much etc etc the tour was fine as is the community is large enough to support a competitive fl we don’t need pl players in their taking up the spot of rising talent. If an accomplished player wants to try a new tier they have plenty of ways to do so, each tiers own pl, individuals, or even just asking to play in smth else. If a new ums player wants to prove themself in a team tour then they don’t have altogehter much opportunities to do so and this tour is invaluable in bringing new talent to the scene. You can make the argument about some people not getting any game time and such and that is tricky of course I can understand but imo both tours are better off not allowing pl players to sign up, especially cause if you have a support player for pl who is allowed into fl cause they weren’t drafted now they can be stretched thin between two tours and depending on how the teams are structured both slots could feasibly become noticeably weaker.

 

[mike]

UMFL seemed cool and a lot of talent came out of there, definitely should return. However UMFL should absolutely follow UMPL's format. Leave the untiers like vgc uu to UMCL or some other side PL

Also re: retains, I support

 

[Heatranator]

For UMFL, just do what every other FL does, players who start in UMPL are allowed to sign up for UMFL, but are barred from playing any tier they have played in. Part of the best part of FL's is that not only does it give players who may not have gotten a chance at PL the opportunity to get into a teamtour (and for some even just introduced to teamtours as a whole), but also allow these players to show their stuff against great players. Me going 5-2 in AG or something looks a lot better if its against shadow, fragments or other people who are pretty good at the game. If its against some 'nobodies' (in this case it isn't meant as an insult, just somebody who is not really known at all really in the tour scene), then its a lot less impressive and thus shows less to people watching that they can do well in higher level competition.
Don't really have much to comment on the other points really? Retains/third manager I don't know enough about, but the slots should also stay the same and most likely just put monocolor/2v2duu in UMFL. I think its good for expanding these tiers further and other FL's like RUGL, NUFL, PUFF and such have also done it, and its usually been good.

 

[lemonstre1]

for me we have to do exactly the same as last year except for the 2 more slots, i think we can let the nfe in more and change the 2V2 by on other slot of 1v1 because this tier is more popular and we'll probably have more new players.

 

[Alexw]

for me we have to do exactly the same as last year except for the 2 more slots, i think we can let the nfe in more and change the 2V2 by on other slot of 1v1 because this tier is more popular and we'll probably have more new players.

Click to collapse...

3 slot of 1v1 ???
I’d like to hear the reasoning behind prioritizing quality over quantity—aside from just the number of slots—especially since the 2v2 pool was extremely competitive last year. I’m also curious why 1v1 was chosen over ZU or AG in terms of player base; adding a 1v1 slot strikes me as a ridiculous idea.
I forgot to mention this, but what does everyone think about having a Bo7 2v2 slot instead of one of the two Bo5 slots? Even though seven teams require a significant amount of vetting, I really enjoyed the Bo7 format during the 2v2PL; much like with 1v1, I think a Bo7 slot would only make the format feel even more team-oriented. tagging few 2v2 people that was involved either in last umpl or this 2v2pl because I am maybe the only one thinking that, who knows ? bern Razachu Hugo Despacito87 Kaif Blanched yuki Arcanine1929 sheepie Morgan crow crumbs fake tom numbers LogIce Arcanine1929 happysh mike AIRedzone Kochu_shak Chris32156 trace Kaif papiloco GigaBytes7 Concept
just by those pings and those people does not mention the new face of 2v2 that 2v2 deserve a second slot because the pool is really really competitive.

 

[LogIce]

Last year's UMPL format was absolutely fine and I do not think we need to push changes. We should probably be making a separate thread for UMFL because most of these posts aren't really about PL, which comes first and is the more pressing issue.

Retains/Manager Trios/Selfbuys:
Retains are fine to be included, most tours across the site are doing them now without issues and they are typically a positive addition. A 12 slot tour should absolutely keep 3 managers. For self buys, I think introducing a self buy formula/host discretion at manager prices would be better than the flat 17.5k. This allows newer or less experienced managers the chance to manage and buy-in for their team, which would be good for both current and future iterations as most of the active player bases are tired of SV right now.

On 2v2 BO7: I do not think that BO7 adds anything to the format and it should stay BO5; typically your best player is ego-ing themselves into slot 1 anyway regardless if it its best of 7 or 5, and in year 4 of SV we don't really need to push metagame development.

Keep Monocolor, 4v4 DUU, etc in OMCL. Differentiate the tours not every single UM tier needs to be in this tournament.