Ursaring: Thats a lot of power. Discussion

Dragontamer

I never really paid much attention to Ursaring before... but this guy reaches an absurd level of speed or power. It ain't no gyarados, but it ain't an Infernape either.

But first, stats and so forth.

Serebii Pokedex page

Ability:
GUTS: 1.5x the power when inflicted with a status. Ignores negative effect of burn.
Quick Feet: 1.5x the speed when inflicted with a status.

Base Stats
HP: 90
Atk: 130
Def: 75
Sp. Atk: 75
Sp. Def: 75
Speed: 55 (~base 106 with Quick feet activated)

Defense Tier Analysis
0/0 Defense Tiers: 115.38 115.38

In my eyes, these numbers note a "light tank" or "heavy sweeper" as I noted earlier.

He is not a glass cannon like Infernape, but his defenses are superior to Starmie. In fact, his defenses are about as good as Spiritomb. He is not exactly tankish... he is less defensive than T-Tar, Gyarados and Garchomp, but he isn't as weak as a sweeper, being several steps above Weavile, Infernape and even Starmie.

Pokemon who are probably similar to Ursaring in terms of style (at least according to defense tiers) would be Tauros (who has higher defense and intimidate, but less sp. def), Machamp (very similar defenses, although Machamp wins slightly), and Heracross (Heracross has less defenses and a weaker typing, but significantly more speed).

Obviously, Toxic Orb and Flame Orb will cut away a lot of his HP, so keep that in mind. If we assume 3 turns of toxic / burn, we're looking at a defense tier a bit better than Ninjask. (that would be if Ursaring lasts 4 turns. One for the orb to activate, and 3 for the HP to get whittled down that far). So anything that will kill Ninjask will hurt Ursaring to the point where it dies in ~4 turns.

Notable Physical Attacks

Facade
Close Combat
Cross Chop
Hammer Arm
Brick Break
Focus Punch
Counter
Crunch
Night Slash
Shadow Claw
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Covet
Fling
Avalanche

Ice Punch
Fire Punch
Thunder Punch

The 3 elemental punches + Quick Feet can be done by going to Emerald, getting a Teddyursa, teaching it the attacks, transfering it to D/P and when you evolve you just hope it gets Quick Feet. Alternatively, you can transfer a Guts Ursaring from Emerald if you want to force Guts.

Notable Special Attacks
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Focus Blast
Snore

When Hyper Beam is the most powerful special attack you got (even after factoring in the 2 turn syndrome) you know there's an issue. It is sad really, because Ursaring has a decent Sp. Atk score... at least better than most physical sweepers. At least he can make use of Hidden Power Fire against Forretress and Scizor.

Notable Other Attacks
Rest
Sleep talk
Yawn
Roar
Swagger
Subsitute
Swords Dance
Taunt
Bulk Up
Toxic (lol)
Protect

So ursaring is one of the few who can stat-up and taunt.

---------------


Now, why I say a lot of power. Jolly Facade + Quick feet + Toxic Orb Ursaring hits a massive attack tier of 115.18. The maximum practical Ursaring hits of course, is Adamant Facade + Guts + Flame/Toxic Orb, which is an even more enormous 120.41 attack tier. In terms of raw numbers, this is 394 attack on top of a 140 base attack with a 50% boost to power due to Guts, and other 50% boost due to STAB.

The absolutely maximum attack that Ursaring can hit without setup is finally Choice Band + Guts + Facade (lets say someone laid down some toxic spikes, or you predicted a WoW and intercepted it with Ursaring). The attack tier here is 124.66, which means Ursaring has a chance to 2-hit KO a 252/252 Bold Forretress with Facade in these conditions. Yes folks, Facade, a normal attack, an attack that forretress 2x resists. Power indeed. Of course, he can always Close Combat Forretress for the guarenteed 2HKO. This Ursaring here friggen OHKOs all non-normal resists without setup except for Cresselia and a few others. And a little note as well... Ursaring has a chance to OHKO Hippowdon and Tangrowth.

PS: Crunch does less damage than Facade on Cresselia. Only use it on ghosts.

With Setup, Ursaring can go Quick-Feet + Toxic Orb, Swords Dance on the turn toxic activates, taunt the phazer (if it switches in), and then rape with Crunch and Facade alone. 4x normal resists ain't that common... Swords Dance + quick feet Ursaring facade is about as powerful as Guts choice band close combat from Heracross. With Crunch + GUTs, Ursaring can 2-hit KO Dusknoir. Quick feet Ursaring can 3-hit Dusknoir with Crunch.

1. Heracross's Choice Band Close Combat: Heracross has 125 base attack (5 less than Ursaring's), and Close Combat (120 BP). "Uber" Attack tier with choice band, guts and close combat is 122.75. Speed setup (ala choice scarf) hits 114.24 attack tier unless guts activates.
2. Specsmence Draco Meteor. 110 Sp. Atk (20 less than Ursaring attack) and 140 BP on Draco Meteor. Weakens after every hit. Initial hit is only an attack tier of 119.16.
3. Ambipom's Silk Scarf + Fake-Out + Last Resort hits only 119.34 on the attack tiers. Last Resort alone is only 115.36 on attack tiers.

Potential Sets:

Power/Speed Ursaring @ Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
Jolly 252 Atk, 244 Spd 12 HP.
Quick Feet / Guts
-----------
Crunch
Facade
Close Combat
Avalanche / Taunt

Facade is the primary hitter. Avalanche is more powerful than Facade against dragons, crunch and close combat for type coverage. With the above EVs, you reach 340 speed (I think), which makes you faster than +Speed base 105s (Surprise! Hello Mismagius, I'm faster than you and love to Crunch). You can never beat +speed infernape.

If you're going for power over speed, I'd drop speed down a bit. I mean, hell, T-Tar is faster than you. Who else would you care for? If you have a reliable agili-passer (Jolteon comes to mind... blocks out Skarm, hidden power makes Swampert / hippowdon nervous), you can run Taunt over Avalanche.

Obviously, the power set makes sense on a trick room team.

With Guts, you can choose between toxic orb or fire orb. Quick Feet does not null out the attack penelty from burn, so toxic orb is the only thing that makes sense.

Speed Dance Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Jolly 252 Atk, 244 Spd 12 HP
Quick Feet
----------
Facade
Crunch
Swords Dance
Taunt

This requires a bit of setup, but you can prevent the opponent from roaring you out with taunt. Walrein cannot sub if you hit him with a swords danced facade. You do 40% to 50% to Skarm after a swords dance, and with taunt you are safe to setup again. Dusknoir is the closest to a counter as it survives the swords danced crunch, pain-splits you for massive damage. Forretress can switch in and explode. Dugtrio is unfortunately still faster than Ursaring, so unless you manage to pass speed, ursaring can get trapped and die.

Just a few ideas. I don't think Choice Band + Guts is practical because of the reliance on Facade. If toxic spikes aren't laid down, good luck >_>. Everything I just said would be at half power (ala Regigias >_>) Nonetheless, Ursaring is clearly the most powerful physical pokemon in the OU metagame with Facade. Facade + Guts is more powerful than CB Slaking Return and CB Outrage Rayquaza. The only guy who is stronger is a headsmash from Rampardos, but if you factor in accuracy (80% hit rate is worse than Megahorn) then Ursaring Facade is still more powerful on the average.

Discuss this beast.
 
When you said it ain't an Infernape, are you trying to say its better than Infernape? I think Infernape is way better (I guess thats why Usaring isn't on the OU or even BL list).

And I think Quick Feet is the better nature. It already has a great attack, but horrible speed. Quick Feet will help out there.

But, I've never battled with him, and if boosting his Speed won't really make him outrun any of the major threats, then I guess Guts will be the better choice.

Good research though! =D
 
This thing really suffers from the same promblems that plague swellow. While it hits hard, it is demolised by protect. I also noticed that on all sets, protect is not an option, so that means that you are going to get that first strike on Ursaring right off the bat.

I really like the idea though, I think it could be quite beastly late game when you know who the walls are and some residual damage has been stacked up.

It also makes me wish he got quick attack or fake out T_T
 
i tried out ursaring a couple weeks ago, and i found that i couldn't use him very effectively (but hey, i couldn't use zapdos or weezing in advance).

quick feet: i found that residual damage racked up way, way too quickly and the set got walled by skarmory roosting fairly easily. note that a gengar can switch in and still be faster, thus being able to kill it/ force it to switch and take EVEN MORE residual damage next time a sweep is wanted.

guts: i found that it worked fairly effectively, and was extremely powerful. i just thought that heracross could do it better, with the extra speed and better type coverage. also, with a blissey on the team, ursaring just adds another pure normal type that is very bad defensively.

that was my take on ursaring, good on paper, bad in reality.
 
I've never used Ursaring competitively before, but Normal doesn't seem like it would give the bear many benefits except STAB Facade and neutrality against everything except Fighting. That weakness coupled with its mediocre speed may just neck its sweepage. Things like ScarfCross, Infernape, Gengar, CB Weavile, Alakazam stops whatever it has set up dead cold. I'm not sure about the percentages, but with Toxic Orb I'm sure it won't last long if by some miracle it survives STAB Close Combat or Specs'd Focus Blast.
 
Flame Orb + Activates Guts + STAB'ed Facade + Devastating Attack + Not much resists it = Crazy Damage

Never thought of that...
 
I always run this guy in my trick room teams, and he really kicks major ass with guts facade

put the tr set in there, DT.

evs should be 252 attack, 180 hp, 78 defense

brave- low speed iv

Fire Punch
Facade
EQ
Protect/ stone edge

and obviously with flame orb.
 
Wow...

Facade would be 140 BP when burned...with guts activiated, it would fly up to 175, STAB just sweetens the deal...wow...
 
I was just looking at Ursaring's stats yesterday as well.

He has a gigantic movepool, and with some BP's of speed (def. works too), he would def. be a force to be reckoned with.

When I get a Teddiursa in my game, I'm going to run:

Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Jolly / Quick Feet
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Crunch / Night Slash
- Taunt / Fire Punch

I wouldn't run Avalanche on Ursaring b/c he probably wouldn't live to hit back with it (though it's a smart move.)

Facade + CC of course. With a dark move, dark/fighting are unresisted with only a few Pokemon in mind. Taunt is a good one to stop the supporters, but I would rather use Fire Punch for more coverage. BP this guy an Agility or two, and bam. You have a sweeeper.
 
IIRC, Quick Feet negates the Paralysis drop.

Anyways, after using Ursaring a couple of times, if you opt for Quick Feet, the best way is Jolly Nature. You can get a decent jump on standard Starmies even with it.

Usually a set I used was Protect / Facade / Close Combat / Stone Edge @ Toxic Orb. Usually proved me well at times. Might want Crunch over Stone Edge to hit ghosts harder. I also find it very hard to mesh in a Swords Dance, even with the Speed Boost off the Toxic Orb. It can be situational at times, but not highly recommended (the Toxic damage will eat you up if you don't act quickly).

Still, I will admit, Ursaring is a beast to be reckoned with. You just have to predict right to use him. Though Taunt sounds decent on something like PHazers...
 
Yoko Rains said:
Wow...

Facade would be 140 BP when burned...with guts activiated, it would fly up to 175, STAB just sweetens the deal...wow...
Click to expand...
im kind of surprised no one knew about all of this.

by the way Yoko, when burned, facade has 280 BP when burned with guts >_<

which makes him an awesome tr option
 
Slice n Dice said:
which makes him an awesome tr option
Click to expand...

I've tested it myself, and the one thing I have to say is that its defenses, like Rampardos', really drag it down. However, unlike Rampardos, it can actually switch into a ghost-type attack when Trick Room is up, but is a deadweight if you can't set it up. Really, it's too much of a hassle to bring out and while it can do crazy damage, it isn't fast or a tank and can't switch in to much. Priority moves are also quite common in OU especially, so Vacuum Wave Lucario, Aqua Jet Azumarill and co really screw it.

Thoughts from a BL Trick Roomer. >_>

And believe me, Base 90 HP isn't going to save its terrible defenses.
 
Slice n Dice said:
I always run this guy in my trick room teams, and he really kicks major ass with guts facade

put the tr set in there, DT.

evs should be 252 attack, 180 hp, 78 defense

brave- low speed iv

Fire Punch
Facade
EQ
Protect/ stone edge

and obviously with flame orb.
Click to expand...

need hammer arm to lower his speed, essentially making him faster in trick room :P
 
Ehh, 90/75/75 is actually pretty good defensive stats. Especially considering the fact that he only has 1 weakness. He's quite like Ampharos, and now that I think about it, their stats are almost exactly the same.

I wonder if a bulky set could actually work with Ursaring using Bulk Up...At least that way he wouldn't HAVE to worry so much about the speed. I really do wish Snoresaring was still viable though. :(
 
This could totally pull of a non-flying Trick Room version of Swellow, making everything but Ghosts and Probopass shit their britches with a 210 BP, Guts CB Facade. Guess it was a bad idea to be setting stuff on fire, huh? Throw on Crunch or Shadow Claw and some other filler and you win.
 
I used this beast quite frequently back in advance, and from my experience it worked excellently as a tank smasher-under it's power all but Skarmory tended to simply crumble.

As I posted in another thread, with a single swords dance, and guts, Ursaring OHKOs most tanks-and with stealth rock and spikes support it succeeds to do this.
The only problem is this frightening power is useless against any sort of offensive pokemon-he simply isn't really able to take a hit, and therefore the ever present sweepers could simply kill him-this also makes it hard to switch in, as well as undermines his ability to defeat tanks, as the opponent could then simply not switch to one and leave his sweeper out to defeat the Bear...

Now, if he had Aerodactyl's speed ;).

I haven't had any experience using him in DP simply because I could never bring myself to use him despite him being my favorite Pokemon-I could never feel like it was really a good idea to add him to a team due to my lack of ability to imagine him being used to success and really supporting the team around him.
 
giving him an additon to speed by more than base 10 would make him a top OU threat in no time.

and yes he CAN be tricky to set up, but thats when uxie and mesprit can help with u turn in TR
 
You should mention fire punch for steels like bronzong and skarm. I tried to use Ursaring awhile back. The problem is that it can't be fast and survivable. It either: 1) activates quick feet with toxic orb or 2) activates guts with flame orb.

The first option is bad because a sweeper cannot sweep with toxic status. It can be used as a pseudo-choice scarf variant, coming in and getting out before toxic's damage gets too large, but not as a sweeper. This also means that you are only getting facade + stab, only 210 base power, nothing insane (117.85 attack tier).

The second option cannot outspeed anything and so it just dies. End of story.

Unless you use trick room or pass some speed to Ursaring, it will never sweep. Using quick feet with toxic orb or choice scarf will let it get some use, but in general other pokemon fulfill its role better.
 
I don't really see how this is similar to Snorlax...

Anyways, this is a great analysis. I never really thought of how powerful its STABed, Guts-boosted, status-boosted Facade would be. Something like this would be a great Choice Bander, IMO, if you switch into something like a Specs/Scarfed Gengar's Shadow Ball. Whatever comes in is in for a rude awakening, and if it's something like Skarmory or Forretress that can't do anything to you, they're going to lose their precious physical wall.
 
Uhh, how exactly is he a wannabe Snorlax? They're kinda completely different except that they're both slow.

Ursaring can work very well with a Choice Scarf actually. It can be a lot like Machamp. Guts + Choice Scarf is a lot more valuable than the other variant of Quick Feet + Choice Band. With Choice Scarf it can reach 343 speed, which outspeed oodles of stuff, and if you switch it in on a status (prediction is definitely needed with Ursaring), you can grab a Guts boost and kill a lot of shit with Facade.

I'd say that the guts + Choice scarf version is better because switching in on a burn is a lot more predictable, and at least if you switch in on a burn, your attack isn't getting completely neutered, unlike with Quick Feet + Choice Band where you have to switch into a Thunder Wave to get free status, and even then, the 25% screw over chance is very annoying.

Ursaring is a seriously ferocius Choice user with the two abilities basically giving him compensation for the other stat. If it has a Choice Scarf with a status, or a Choice Band with quick feet up, then this thing is easily much better than Swellow seeing as it has 45 more base attack and it doesn't die to a feather's touch.
 
With Trick Room support this will basically rape anything and everything. Brave, 0 IVs, 0 EVs, and it'll probably be REALLY slow. With Facade and Crunch it should be able to rape everything.
 
You know, Ursaring can get Ice Punch instead of Avalanche. Using Avalanche on Quick Feet Ursaring against a Dragon is basically telling the opposing Mence/Garchomp "enjoy your free kill!"
 
I would definitely take Guts/CB over Guts/CScarf with the general idea being "I can take one hit which is one more hit than they can take". Ursaring isn't anywhere near frail; I don't get where people are getting that. Rather than buff his speed at all, why not just put the 258 non-attacking EVs into defenses? Switch into some Toxic Spikes or a Wow or something and go nuts on them. Trading blows you'll probably at least get a Pokemon for Ursaring and maybe better if you can avoid the stuff that will kill you fast.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top