Data Usage-Based Tier Update for Mid-December 2020

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IDK about you guys but I'm 99% sure glowking is dropping after pheromosa inevitably gets banned.It's biggest reason for rising was quiver dance Pheromosa rising in usage and once that's gone it's niche will die off like with alolan marowak when pheromosa was in OU in gen 7.
 
Dang, I really missed that Ditto jump last shift. Good thing Marty spotted it.

Anyway, here's Clippy reminding you of the jumps:
  • Barraskewda - RU to OU
  • Slowking-Galar - RU to OU
  • Landorus - DNU to DOU
On THAT note, Ditto's usage was below 4.52% on PU. Therefore, unless I'm missing something, it would have dropped to ZU if it hadn't rose to RU as well.

PS. How does the Tier council get appointed/elected, the ZU council needs to organize soon enough.
 
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First and foremost, thanks for the prompt update, especially since I wasn't even aware that there was supposed to be another mid-month update until about two or three days ago. All that really changes is that PU's devastation came fifteen days earlier than expected though.


Regieleki moved from OU to UU
...Despite my initial incredulous reaction to this and my initial thought from over a month ago being that Regieleki would be bad for UU if it dropped, it might well be fine just because Ground-types or a mon with Volt Absorb are already on most UU teams and Grimmsnarl, Klefki, and the Aurora Veil-bot that is Ninetales-Alola seem like they already do Screens better. Add in the fact that Pincurchin is several magnitudes worse than Tapu Koko and...yeah, this may be fine. Either way, I know that I prefer this dropping to an Urshifu-form. Please keep that abomination of bad design away from us, OU.

That said, I still can't get over its Speed though even more than a month later. Being able to outspeed +1 Speed Jolly Blaziken with 0 Speed EVs is rather absurd if welcome given Blaziken is still here--grumble grumble.


Fuck UU give Slowking back... Bring back the King
Yeah, sorry about that. I barely touch Slowking, but it was basically inevitable it would rise back given that Slowbro got taken back by OU and Teleport + Future Sight is a stupid good combination even before Regenerator's additional stupidity, especially with a bunch of strong & fast Fighting types in the tier even after Zapdos-Galar got rightfully banned. RU probably is not getting Slowking back anytime soon unless maybe Slowbro somehow drops back to UU by next month.
 
Absol moved from NU to PUBL
Arctovish moved from NU to PUBL
Galvantula moved from NU to PUBL
Golurk moved from NU to PUBL
Hitmontop moved from NU to PUBL
Magneton moved from NU to PUBL
Mesprit moved from NU to PUBL
Scyther moved from NU to PUBL
Abomasnow moved from NU to PU
Aggron moved from NU to PU
Archeops moved from NU to PU
Aromatisse moved from NU to PU
Articuno moved from NU to PU
Aurorus moved from NU to PU
Braviary moved from NU to PU
Centiskorch moved from NU to PU
Charizard moved from NU to PU
Clawitzer moved from NU to PU
Claydol moved from NU to PU
Coalossal moved from NU to PU
Cramorant moved from NU to PU
Druddigon moved from NU to PU
Duraludon moved from NU to PU
Eldegoss moved from NU to PU
Electivire moved from NU to PU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from NU to PU
Exploud moved from NU to PU
Gallade moved from NU to PU
Gigalith moved from NU to PU
Golbat moved from NU to PU
Gurdurr moved from NU to PU
Heliolisk moved from NU to PU
Hitmonlee moved from NU to PU
Indeedee-F moved from NU to PU
Jellicent moved from NU to PU
Kabutops moved from NU to PU
Kingdra moved from NU to PU
Lanturn moved from NU to PU
Machamp moved from NU to PU
Malamar moved from NU to PU
Omastar moved from NU to PU
Palossand moved from NU to PU
Passimian moved from NU to PU
Piloswine moved from NU to PU
Raichu-Alola moved from NU to PU
Regigigas moved from NU to PU
Regirock moved from NU to PU
Ribombee moved from NU to PU
Roserade moved from NU to PU
Rotom moved from NU to PU
Sandslash-Alola moved from NU to PU
Sceptile moved from NU to PU
Scrafty moved from NU to PU
Shiftry moved from NU to PU
Sigilyph moved from NU to PU
Silvally-Fairy moved from NU to PU
Silvally-Ghost moved from NU to PU
Silvally-Steel moved from NU to PU
Sirfetch’d moved from NU to PU
Sneasel moved from NU to PU
Talonflame moved from NU to PU
Tauros moved from NU to PU
Thwackey moved from NU to PU
Toxicroak moved from NU to PU
Tsareena moved from NU to PU
Uxie moved from NU to PU
Vanilluxe moved from NU to PU
Vaporeon moved from NU to PU
Vikavolt moved from NU to PU
Vileplume moved from NU to PU
Virizion moved from NU to PU
Weezing moved from NU to PU
Whimsicott moved from NU to PU
Xatu moved from NU to PU
Welp, here we go again.

 
First and foremost, thanks for the prompt update, especially since I wasn't even aware that there was supposed to be another mid-month update until about two or three days ago. All that really changes is that PU's devastation came fifteen days earlier than expected though.




...Despite my initial incredulous reaction to this and my initial thought from over a month ago being that Regieleki would be bad for UU if it dropped, it might well be fine just because Ground-types or a mon with Volt Absorb are already on most UU teams and Grimmsnarl, Klefki, and the Aurora Veil-bot that is Ninetales-Alola seem like they already do Screens better. Add in the fact that Pincurchin is several magnitudes worse than Tapu Koko and...yeah, this may be fine. Either way, I know that I prefer this dropping to an Urshifu-form. Please keep that abomination of bad design away from us, OU.

That said, I still can't get over its Speed though even more than a month later. Being able to outspeed +1 Speed Jolly Blaziken with 0 Speed EVs is rather absurd if welcome given Blaziken is still here--grumble grumble.




Yeah, sorry about that. I barely touch Slowking, but it was basically inevitable it would rise back given that Slowbro got taken back by OU and Teleport + Future Sight is a stupid good combination even before Regenerator's additional stupidity, especially with a bunch of strong & fast Fighting types in the tier even after Zapdos-Galar got rightfully banned. RU probably is not getting Slowking back anytime soon unless maybe Slowbro somehow drops back to UU by next month.
We only have G-bro or Reuniclus as Future Sight pivot with Regen but the King is the King
 
Please tell me we're returning to the old cutoff for gen 9.

This new cutoff has done nothing except power-creep the lower tiers to the point of batshit insanity. I mean, it was fine pre-DLC because of the reduced dex, but Talonflame and Virizion being PU is wrong on so many levels.
Idk while the drops from the new cutoff do seem large we have to remember this is a result of gamefreak dropping 100 new mons on us and pushing half the old tier down so forth. The old cutoff just doesn't feel that good considering so much bottom tier stuff stayed in their respective tiers because of such a low cutoff. The tiers are still adapting, with bans taking place rises will occur, it just takes time. Besides, even if stuff like talonflame and virizion are PU, they still can be used in higher tiers, so it's not like their stuck in BL purgatory where they are too good for one but too bad for the other. Overall the lower tiers are still stabilizing and even if they aren't the tier by usage doesn't mean they are bad.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Please tell me we're returning to the old cutoff for gen 9.

This new cutoff has done nothing except power-creep the lower tiers to the point of batshit insanity. I mean, it was fine pre-DLC because of the reduced dex, but Talonflame and Virizion being PU is wrong on so many levels.
What is inherently bad about it? Like what's the actual harm here?
 
everyone's complaining about all these great pokemon falling to PU when the bigger issue is that we probably need to update the name schemes of the tiers now that shit like speed boost blaziken is UU. it worked before when tiers were bigger and there were less pokemon but even without a full dex it's just strange to say "oh yeah Tornadus is a NeverUsed pokemon" wym that motherfucker neverused

not to get into the nitty-gritty but i think next generation we should do a gen 5 and add a tier or two between other tiers so that the pokemon in PU are like, actually bad pokemon and not previous gen's UU/RU. especially since ZU exists and feels like the natural predecessor to NU anyhow? its confusing and doesn't really convey the idea very well in my opinion
 
What is inherently bad about it? Like what's the actual harm here?
It pushes more and more Pokemon into unviability as better competition drops. Like who the hell is going to use Braviary or Unfezant now that Talonflame is PU? How many Dark-type sweepers are going to fall out of favour now that Sneasel has dropped? Why would you use any Fighting-type over Passimian, Hitmonlee, Virizion or Sirfetch'd (or Machamp I guess)? Granted, there is a chance that all of these mons will be banned eventually, but the trickle-down effect on the lower tiers is frankly absurd.

And yes, Game Freak is partly to blame, but the new cutoff is certainly harming more than it helps. Not to mention, what was the point of instant drops at the start of the DLC release if we're getting huge waves of new mons like this anyway?
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Solar take: We should've implemented the full Crown Tundra roster the moment the Home leak confirming it happened. Sure we later would've had to add the new Pokemon and update tutor movesets but it would've still been a more gradual shift on the whole
 
Seems G-Luke posted this sentiment while I was typing it up in much more concise words than I but I'm posting mine anyways

I think the bigger cutoff is working fine. Perhaps the comment on the nomenclature reading as negative has some merit to it if people's perceptions of a mon being in a lower usage tier are that it's a problem of some sort but that's essentially an argument of aesthetics.

What is much more meaningful is the rises, for years Smogon has had frustrated memes of things like Donphan and Jolteon being trapped in higher tiers where they were outclassed entirely by other options - Much more in limbo than mons being quick to drop, they didn't exist in an environment where you could viably use them. Might have been if they dropped easier to a lower tier.

Now, look at the rises of DLC2 SwSh, only a few things have shot up - Things like Galarian Slowking and Hippowdown coming up to OU... Only because they genuinely answer part of the metagame, they're not inexplicably taken away from the lower tiers because of they're cute.

It's chaotic looking now because there's so many moving parts, but once the dust settles you're not going to lose a defining part of a lower tier to a higher tier without justification. It will settle, given time.
 
Good mons being in low tiers just means multiple tiers can use it. No one is gonna rag you for using a lower tier mon if it's actually good on your team.
ig youre right but everyone wants to see their favs in a higher tier so i am a bit biased i guess
 
I'm curious as to why Talonflame dropped so low. After all, it has boots now as well, and Dual Wingbeat doesn't hinder its ability
The problem i see is Talonflame isnt as strong if dont use his better STAB in Brave Bird and Flare Blitz wich both have recoil canceling his ability
 
Seems G-Luke posted this sentiment while I was typing it up in much more concise words than I but I'm posting mine anyways

I think the bigger cutoff is working fine. Perhaps the comment on the nomenclature reading as negative has some merit to it if people's perceptions of a mon being in a lower usage tier are that it's a problem of some sort but that's essentially an argument of aesthetics.

What is much more meaningful is the rises, for years Smogon has had frustrated memes of things like Donphan and Jolteon being trapped in higher tiers where they were outclassed entirely by other options - Much more in limbo than mons being quick to drop, they didn't exist in an environment where you could viably use them. Might have been if they dropped easier to a lower tier.

Now, look at the rises of DLC2 SwSh, only a few things have shot up - Things like Galarian Slowking and Hippowdown coming up to OU... Only because they genuinely answer part of the metagame, they're not inexplicably taken away from the lower tiers because of they're cute.

It's chaotic looking now because there's so many moving parts, but once the dust settles you're not going to lose a defining part of a lower tier to a higher tier without justification. It will settle, given time.
this is fair enough, and a lot of people agree with you, so i’m probably completely uninformed and wrong. that being said, the way i feel is that the cutoff is causing many pokémon to become completely invalidated.

for example: i enjoy using runergius or sandaconda as a stealth rocks setter, but now there’s 3 new stealth rockers (gigalith, regirock, coalossal) that completely invalidate them in PU. if those two guys drop to ZU because of this ridiculous power creep, then who knows ~ maybe those two will completely invalidate the ZU stealth rockers like mawile, who will then be useless in any form of gen 8 single battling.

if we’re going to have 30-40 pokémon drop an entire tier each time the meta shifts, then we might as well make a new tier. after all, we’re at a point where most tiers can barely make it past 40 pokémon, and ou can’t even reach 40 pokémon

i’m probably completely wrong like i always am, but idk. that’s just how i feel, i guess. sorry about all this
 
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