USM UU C&C Discussion Thread

Can I just ask if I've done something wrong with my anylasis? It was posted yesterday and hasn't even been replied to and yet some anylasis' that were posted today have been replied to
 
Dobbie_The_Elf said:
Can I just ask if I've done something wrong with my anylasis? It was posted yesterday and hasn't even been replied to and yet some anylasis' that were posted today have been replied to
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No, you have done nothing wrong. There are just many analyses to QC, and we are mostly focusing on the more high priority ones right now. Don't worry, you are doing fine!

This won't count as QC, but from a glance at the analysis, I would personally add a Choice Specs set as its main set, and remove the mention from OO. Focus Sash should be the main item on the QD set, as it lacks the bulk to reliably set up otherwise, but a Life Orb can work fine. The team options should be fleshed out: what Pokemon typically beat Ribombee, and which teammates can help deal with them? Also, give a few more specific examples. Which Rapid Spinners pair well with Ribombee? Which hazard setters have good synergy with it?

You could also add a few more checks and counters.

If you are writing up the Choice Specs set, do not be afraid of redundancies; rather, make sure that both sets read like their own, separate little analysis and list all move, set details, usage tips and team options relevant to that set. Good luck!
 
GrilledClawitzer said:
No, you have done nothing wrong. There are just many analyses to QC, and we are mostly focusing on the more high priority ones right now. Don't worry, you are doing fine!

This won't count as QC, but from a glance at the analysis, I would personally add a Choice Specs set as its main set, and remove the mention from OO. Focus Sash should be the main item on the QD set, as it lacks the bulk to reliably set up otherwise, but a Life Orb can work fine. The team options should be fleshed out: what Pokemon typically beat Ribombee, and which teammates can help deal with them? Also, give a few more specific examples. Which Rapid Spinners pair well with Ribombee? Which hazard setters have good synergy with it?

You could also add a few more checks and counters.

If you are writing up the Choice Specs set, do not be afraid of redundancies; rather, make sure that both sets read like their own, separate little analysis and list all move, set details, usage tips and team options relevant to that set. Good luck!
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I have implemented these changes. I agree that a focus Sash works extremely well.
 
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Dobbie_The_Elf said:
I have implemented these changes. I agree that a focus Sash works extremely well.
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This looks a lot better now. I still see some issues, but everything should be easily fixable. I don't think I'll be able to take a proper look at it today, but I hope to get to it tomorrow. If other QC members do before me, that is also fine. Please be patient with us! :)
 
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I think that Durant deserves an analysis. It has a good speed tier which allows it to outspeed most of the pokemon in the tier. In S/M, Durant has got Electrium Z Thunder Fang as an addition to kill Water types more consistantly. Z Hone Claws is another option to get +2 attack and negate the Acc drop of Hustle in one turn. You might think that you wouldn't choose Durant over Scizor at all, but Durants niche is the great speed stat and the great coverage with his STABs, Crunch, Rock Slide, Thunder Fang and Superpower. From what I've seen, Durant can beat most of the S and A+ Pokemon too (Clefable, Sharpedo, Cobalion, Mew, Non HP Fire Latias and unboosted Bisharp).
I already posted this on the viability ranking thread but didn't get an answer
 
Sorry if this is not the right place to ask, but I was directed here by a mod. Anyways, I'm wondering when the more recent UU skeletons are going to be uploaded to the site. Many have been tagged as "done" for almost a month now, but are not being uploaded and the other metas are constantly uploading their done analyses/skeletons. Are we waiting to move forward to full write-ups or what? Personally, I've been waiting for the Infernape analysis to hit the site all month. Thanks in advance for the answer!
 
OrangeGuru said:
Sorry if this is not the right place to ask, but I was directed here by a mod. Anyways, I'm wondering when the more recent UU skeletons are going to be uploaded to the site. Many have been tagged as "done" for almost a month now, but are not being uploaded and the other metas are constantly uploading their done analyses/skeletons. Are we waiting to move forward to full write-ups or what? Personally, I've been waiting for the Infernape analysis to hit the site all month. Thanks in advance for the answer!
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Hi OrangeGuru!
The UU analysises are in skeleton form at the moment. There was a recent thread in the UU analysis thread that said from now all the analysises are going to be done as full write ups, as the meta has settled a bit more now. Go check the thread if you need more. Hope I helped!
 
Hey I'd like to request an analysis on calm mind Cobalion, I've been using this set lately and it's surprisingly effective to the point where I do believe it deserves its own onsite analysis.
 
Jord-e said:
Hey I'd like to request an analysis on calm mind Cobalion, I've been using this set lately and it's surprisingly effective to the point where I do believe it deserves its own onsite analysis.
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QC will discuss this, but for future reference, this is the place to post if you have a suggestion like this :blobthumbsup:
 
In team options for the support mega altaria set it says "Steel-types like Mega Aggron..." You can't have more than one mega on a team.
 
Cross-linking my post in the OU analysis discussion thread:
escarlata said:
An observation a friend pointed out to me something regarding the 248 HP investment on several Pokemons, like Zapdos and Toxapex who carry lefties:
They would reach 384 and 304 HP respectively with 252 HP investment instead, which is a lefties number. So despite taking 1 point more of damage from SR, they will end up healing 1 more point at the end of the turn with lefties, hence being more efficient.

This applies to every other Pokemon with a base stat of (8n + 2)
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I'm not very familiar with the UU metagame so I'm not sure which UU viable Pokemons fall in this category, but defensive Moltres is one of those with a UU analysis onsite which has 248 HP where 252 HP is actually more efficient.
Pretty sure the team is able to identify the other Pokemons which have HP stats falling in this category and make the necessary adjustments.
 
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escarlata said:
Cross-linking my post in the OU analysis discussion thread:

I'm not very familiar with the UU metagame so I'm not sure which UU viable Pokemons fall in this category, but defensive Moltres is one of those with a UU analysis onsite which has 248 HP where 252 HP is actually more efficient.
Pretty sure the team is able to identify the other Pokemons which have HP stats falling in this category and make the necessary adjustments.
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This is all technically sound numbers wise, but as I mentioned here I'm more concerned with practicality. Using the Moltres example, I would not change the EV spread at all, since being able to switch into Stealth Rock twice is drastically more important than gaining an extra 1 HP more each turn for the way it's played. Everything here ends up depending on idealistic conditions that's entirely arbitrary. Another example is Amoonguss, which currently has 252 HP on the analysis, but realistically it doesn't matter whether you run 252 or 248 EVs. Regenerator and the non ideal scenario of taking any non hazard damage would nullify the benefit of either taking less rocks damage or gaining more HP per turn. I appreciate the input, but this whole HP efficiency thing isn't something that should be applied blindly to all Pokémon with that type of HP.
 
I thought about this practicality-wise for a while before writing this.

In the first place, any Moltres will be able to switch into SR twice anyway because of lefties recovery, so the only time a SR number really matters is if you are switching into SR during SS. Or, in the rare cases where you are tanking just enough damage to reach the safety margin and switching out, both builds can lose exactly upwards to 191 points of HP, and survive the next entry into SR so there is really no diff there.

The significance of hitting a lefties number even on an SR weak Pokemon is that so long as you survive until the end of the turn, you already make up for the 1 point extra of SR damage, and you are getting 1 extra HP for every turn you stay in, and 2 extra HP for every turn you spend using Roost, which is more valuable than arbitrarily hitting a SR number imo.

Great that you brought up Amoonguss actually, because it is one of those examples where UU runs 252 HP, while OU arbitrarily run 248 HP for no reason, considering the sweeping statement of "the rest are placed into...".

Maybe SS is actually very prevalent in UU, or maybe Moltres doesn't stay on the field very often, I don't know. But if that is not the case, then 252 HP over 248 HP should be the preferred build. Similarly for other Pokemons who hit a lefties number with 252 HP that currently have 248 HP some reason.
 
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escarlata said:
I thought about this practicality-wise for a while before writing this.

In the first place, any Moltres will be able to switch into SR twice anyway because of lefties recovery, so the only time a SR number really matters is when you are tanking just enough damage to reach the safety margin and switching out, and both builds can lose exactly upwards to 191 points of HP, and survive the next entry into SR so there is really no diff.

In fact, the only time where an SR number makes a difference is if you are switching into SR during Sandstorm, when you take 1 more point overall with 384 HP, where you need 1 turn of Roost to break even.

In every other case, getting 1 extra HP for every turn you stay in, and 2 extra HP for every turn you spend using Roost is more valuable than arbitrarily hitting a SR number imo.

Great that you brought up Amoonguss actually, because it is one of those examples where UU runs 252 HP, while OU arbitrarily run 248 HP for no reason, considering the sweeping statement of "the rest are placed into...".
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I mean defensive Moltres is frequently used to tank Knock Off and then it using Roost to heal it off multiple times to full, which would make switching into Stealth Rock a way bigger deal. We could go back and forth in specific scenarios for it to matter and not, but making Moltres a Leftovers number is more of an exception than the standard, and when it's justified poorly in practice, we stick with the standard policy of Stealth Rock number. For Amoonguss, the exception makes sense because it doesn't cut into what Amoonguss is usually used to do.

For the record, I updated the thread I linked to be more specific.
Of course, if it's the other way around where the Pokemon gains an extra 1 HP per turn with 4 extra EVs, then it's an exception that depends entirely on practicality. You'd usually offset the extra damage from Stealth Rock with the Leftovers recovery, so the main thing to consider is how that Pokémon is played, how often it's used to tank Knock Off, etc. Essentially, it's best to stick to the more straightforward one of Stealth Rock when that exception becomes unjustified.
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Eyan said:
I mean defensive Moltres is frequently used to tank Knock Off and then it using Roost to heal it off multiple times to full, which would make switching into Stealth Rock a way bigger deal. We could go back and forth in specific scenarios for it to matter and not, but making Moltres a Leftovers number is more of an exception than the standard, and when it's justified poorly in practice, we stick with the standard policy of Stealth Rock number. For Amoonguss, the exception makes sense because it doesn't cut into what Amoonguss is usually used to do.

For the record, I updated the thread I linked to be more specific.
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Since Moltres frequently tank KOff, then 383 is certainly the better margin for the analysis to use, I stand corrected.
Apologies for bringing up Moltres specifically in this case, since it is the first UU viable, 90 base HP, lefties user I can think of to use as an example, but you are right that Moltres in particular is more of an exception than the standard. Just wanted to bring this subject matter up because I thought that the EV spread link was a bit vague on this. Good to know that it's adjusted for further clarification, for whenever a new lefties user comes into the tier for example.
 
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Wascally Wabbit said:
I think Groundium Z Celebi should be added to the analysis. I’m not sure who is in charge of that but it’s a viable set that’s really useful in this meta versus Pokémon like Muk-Alolan whose usage has dramatically increased as well as stuff like Mega-Manectric because Celebi eats a flame thrower.
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The current one was written prior to Alolan Muk dropping. Here's the currently being written one that had Groundium Z. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/celebi-qc-1-3-updated.3619808/
 
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Wascally Wabbit said:
Ok so I’ve been building a lot with AV Metagross and I noticed it’s not on the analysis. It’s a reliable switch in to Latias and has the ability to eat a Flame Thrower from Manectric and a Dark Pulse from Hydreigon. It can Pursuit trap threats and Bullet Punch to clean. It has the required bulk to run AV and over all it’s a viable set that should be on the analysis. Reply with your thoughts.
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Again, check the analysis that's CURRENTLY being written. It has AV.
 
DonSalvatore said:
Any M-Slowbro analysis ?
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Because it’s new to the tier, there needs to be time after it drops for the meta to settle around it to establish its viability and best sets. Writing an analysis of something really new doesn’t allow enough time for people to have experience using it; it also isn’t ranked on the VR yet for similar reasons, and analyses follow that.
 
marthaa said:
Because it’s new to the tier, there needs to be time after it drops for the meta to settle around it to establish its viability and best sets. Writing an analysis of something really new doesn’t allow enough time for people to have experience using it; it also isn’t ranked on the VR yet for similar reasons, and analyses follow that.
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Ok i thought that was faster to make analysis.
It's true M-Slowbro is new in UU metagame but same for Specs Moltres isn't it ?
 
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