Metagame USUM CAP Metagame Discussion

Chazm

yeet
is a Pre-Contributor
1) How has the metagame changed since Equilibra was released?
Changed directly for the worse. Originally CAP was quite diverse in playstyles but now it generally revolves around fat balance Equilbra cores to slowly chip down Equi checks and counters. Rotom-Wash has seen an extreme increase in usage, because it is one of the few Pokemon that can actually handle it, and even then it will often get slowly chipped down by ProTox variants as it struggles to significantly damage Equi with its STAB and fails to account for potential partners with Equilibra that might just hand the momentum over to the user. The Equilibra metagame is a metagame of voltturn - in an attempt to not lose momentum against the opposing Equilibra, I've found that the best way to stave this off is to use offensive VoltTurn cores like Syclant + Krilowatt and just evade Equilibra entirely.

2) How do you think Equilibra has affected the metagame? Positively? Negatively?

Very negatively.
What was once a metagame with a ton of options now becomes grossly centralized around one playstyle and trying to beat that one playstyle. Screens teams are now no longer as effective as Equilibra just outright walls half of the abusers and not only that, it hits hard when it comes in. A lot of the time I find it so difficult not to use Equilibra because of how punishing it is to a multitude of playstyles and just how easy it is to lock the opponent into a poor situation with a wallbreaker and an impending Doom Desire. This would be a cool benefit to the metagame if only Equilibra didn't get 11 billion chances to do it.

3) Should Equilibra undergo a nerfing process?


For the sake of the meta this mon needs to be nerfed heavily. Unfortunately the best way to do this is base stat reduction / ability removal, as Equi's limited movepool is already enough to carry it to a grossly centralizing level. One of the issues I find when discussing Equilibra is whether to remove Levitate or Bulletproof, as whilst removing Levitate would make breakers like Garchomp and Landorus-T better, it still leaves a lot of mons in the dust because of how disgustingly bulky this mon is for how punishing it is. Bulletproof would mean mons like Magearna and Megazam would be much better again and fall into the category that the last meta did. But seeing as Magearna was very powerful in that meta, it would probably be best to remove Levitate instead. I would also like to ask for a significant reduction in HP, for most of thw reasons stated above. So - nerf Equilibra, and the meta becomes a lot more fun to play imo.
 
1) How has the metagame changed since Equilibra was released?

Libra has either invalidated a ton of mons or forced many previously consistent mons to run "unsets". It can shut down most Psychic types like Zam and Lele, Magearna, and any other mon, like Jumbao, that relies on Focus Blast to hit Steel types. Then there's the fact that in order to beat Libra, many players have to take to things like SubRise zone (thanks snake), Hydro Vortex Latios (thanks Jordy and terra), Imprison Krill (quziel even if this is a joke) or have to use things like Mega Gallade or Snaelstrom which isn't something we should be doing in my opinion. Speaking from experience, and to echo previous posts, Rotom-W has been so prevalent lately, if only because you can resist or be immune to Libra's stabs, but even then you lose to Toxic and chip, which makes things even harder to handle.

Other general trends that have also popped up since the Libra release, anything with a speed greater than Base 100 is getting really good. Pajantom and Libra is such a good core. Char-Y is also really good and it does manage to OHKO Libra with Flamethrower, but that gets shut down by the often-common Equipex core. Screens Hyper Offense is dead (shout outs to my Week 2 CAPTT match for finding DD bypasses sceens when Libra is off the field), and a lot teams aren't really running as many Steel types just because Libra compresses that role down significantly.


2) How do you think Equilibra has affected the metagame? Positively? Negatively?

If it wasn't clear, I think Libra has had a significant and negative impact on the meta as a whole. As I alluded, the diversity in the tier now comes down to weird sets that have been built exclusively to handle Libra or its checks. You just don't see things like Mega Mawile, Volkraken, Volcarona, and other previously notable threats simply because Libra exists. One could argue that being a blanket check makes a lot of previously annoying threats a lot more manageable is a good thing, but personally I think that this mon in a way is comparable to Aegislash back in XY OU. Libra forces players to make a lot of either careful predictions or 50/50s or checkmate situations with DD. Both of its abilities that are commonly used are absolutely insane, and both are viable enough to where players have to either find a way to scout for the ability, or to play under the assumption of an ability (which, to be fair, isn't necessarily difficult sometimes).


3) Should Equilibra undergo a nerfing process?

Yes. As to what should be nerfed, that's a whole different discussion. Looking into the root cause of Libra I really do think that it would either need to be changing Bulletproof to a different ability, or we would need to remove some of Libra's amazing 102/96/118 bulk. Personally, I'm against removing Levitate on Libra, but I'm open to ideas about it as well. What it boils down to is that the metagame will be more fun if Libra gets nerfed. I've heard from a few players, and I've also felt this way, that CAP would be a lot more fun to play and build for if Libra weren't such a pain in the ass to deal with.
 
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Frostbiyt

Not Exactly Helping
is a Pre-Contributor
1) How has the metagame changed since Equilibra was released?
I feel like this has been well covered in previous posts

2) How do you think Equilibra has affected the metagame? Positively? Negatively?
I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. While I don't think Magearna and Tapu Lele(and to a lesser extent, Alakazam) were broken, I do think they were somewhat unhealthy due to their difficulty to deal with and/or their wide variety of viable sets. Libra's ability to handle these mons to one degree or another(Fight Z Lele can get through Bulletproof and, as Jordy pointed out on Discord, Specs Lele can 3HKO with Psychic, so it's not a hard counter by any means), in my opinion, is a positive change to the meta and is an aspect of this mon we should attempt to p̸̩̹͎͆͌͊̈ͅr̴͈͚̆̀̊͋̆͠ͅè̸̢̲̺̘̹̘̮͋̋͝ͅͅs̶͓̯̱̻̙̳̦̏͋͋̆̕e̷̤̺͉͙̣̊̀̑͂̉̉͠r̷̠̫̩̗̬͚̦͗̇͆̌̀͘̚v̵̦̗̀̄̑͆̎͊́͌́̚è̴̛͈̰̻͍̬̗̗̟̋͗̉̊́̿̂̿ if it undergoes any nerfs.

Whether the changes to the meta are a net positive or negative, I can't say as I haven't played as much of the post-Libra meta as I'd like, but it seems like the consensus is that it has been a net negative.

3) Should Equilibra undergo a nerfing process?
I'm not convinced it needs to be nerfed currently, though like I said, I haven't played a ton since libra dropped. I just want to remind people that CAP is a smaller community, so the meta is going to take much longer to adjust to a new presence than bigger formats like OU, so we shouldn't be too hasty when it comes to deciding to nerf or not. Many of those that were around when Jumbao was released may remember people saying it was broken, which we now know is not the case.
 

TheJ3estPenguin

why you in the car if you ain't gon shoot
1. How has the metagame changed since Equilibra was released?
If you're running Levitate on Equi, in my opinion it's the best (if not one of the best) hazard removers in the metagame rn. Equi is like Jordy said, Mega Alakazam and Garchomp have fallen out of style since Equi has dropped. Garchomp was one of the best rockers pre Equilibra. Since Equi is so popular people are running mons just to stop it. I've seen lots more of Koko+Lucha on the ladder recently.

2. How do you think Equilibra has affected the metagame? Positvely? Negatively?
I'm not sure how to answer this really but I think it's impacted it kind of negatively because some of the best mons aren't doing as well as you'd want them to be anymore, like magearna, chomper, zam. Since Equi can DD spam you're almost always gonna need to bring something that eats DD

3. Should Equilibra undergo a nerfing process?
It's def not as broke as crucibelle, moth and necturna. I'm gonna have to say yes for this one because if nothing gets done about it, it's gonna continue to dominate the metagame and keep it the same unless something is done about it. Personally i'd like to see it lose some SpA and SpD and maybe lose Levitate to make it more susceptible to spikes so it's not AS prominent of a spinner.
 

snake_rattler

Bold to assume that I won't have the last laugh...
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Hi everyone, I just wanted to throw in a 72 hour warning on this topic, so that we can wrap up this conversation and determine where to go from here. See you then!
 
1. How has the metagame changed since Equilibra was released?
I have to acknowledge that the meta favors balanced teams more than anything, as already stated. It's not bad. It's just different. Growing pains.

A lot of what Jordy listed in his post and from what I've played this meta reminds me of gen 6 OU. I, personally, find it easier to team build now. The thing that comes to my mind is that Libra is CAPs Lando-T. It's an easy pick for most teams. Fills a role, patches a hole, etc. Just with a less diverse toolkit at its disposal. Most sets are going to do the same thing, it's just what ability is Libra running. Which isnt a huge problem.

I think the problem lies in how ridiculously bulky Libra is. The fact it can live pretty beefy hits and get most of it health back with the berry sets is obnoxious. This is why I initially thought the abilities were the problem. The abilities carry the stats to a different level. I think a stat reduction to bulk would make Libra feel less oppressive on the meta.

2. How do you think Equilibra has affected the metagame? Positvely? Negatively?
I like the changes it has brought to the meta. While obnoxious, it isnt overtly broken. I think the combination of abilities plus limited toolkits makes it a balanced mon. I like that the meta is something I'm more familiar with.

3. Should Equilibra undergo a nerfing process?
I believe the only nerf should be directed at bulk. I think it would make the abilities more reasonable, and Libra as a whole less of a headache people feel the need to deliberately counter. This should grant more freedom for teams other than balanced.
 

Funbot28

Ayy panini, don't you be a meanie
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Any updates on Libra nerfs? Not to sound harsh but the meta is in a pretty terrible state at the moment and I wouldn't mind like removing Libra in the time being until the situation gets resolved as it literally warps the meta around it to a ridiculously unhealthy degree.
 
Any updates on Libra nerfs? Not to sound harsh but the meta is in a pretty terrible state at the moment and I wouldn't mind like removing Libra in the time being until the situation gets resolved as it literally warps the meta around it to a ridiculously unhealthy degree.
I do believe the general plan is to finish the playtest before making any serious moves on the nerfing process. So i'd keep an eye on that tournament, and then look for further updates from the leaders of the community.
 

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